the best law school.

yekrab

open to discussion as to the best law schools in ireland.

hada

People will invariably say TCD.

I went to Galway and it's done me no harm.

UCC is actually quite a good school also with de Londras, Mee and McMahon.

johnfás

I suppose it depends on how you look at it. Trinity College tends to come highest of the Irish Universities in the (albeit flawed) Global University Rankings. On the other hand 7 of the 9 Supreme Court Justices studied at UCD and then again a significant number of the Supreme Court bench didn't even study law at University. At the same time that probably says more about the historical position of UCD than it does of its teaching. So many variables.

You will receive an excellent academic legal education at any of the main Irish Universities. If you are making a choice in that regard, base it on where you would rather be as much as anything else.

I would hazard a guess that most people here only attended one institution so can't reaaaaaaally give an informed opinion on the merits of each.

McCrack

I wouldnt personally say there is a 'best' law school in the State. Each institution is as good as the next in terms of programme delivery.
The public institutions are at an advantage over the private ones in respect of prestige and establishment and the private ones in respect of smaller class sizes but that's all IMO.

At the end of the day it's the student's commitment and ability that determines academic and professional success not the institution that delivered the programme.

And it sure as hell matters little in practice what college one went to or what degree one did or whether it was a 1.1 or pass or what you like to eat for breakfast...

practice is built on professional reputation.

dats_right

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the standard of education or indeed the schools themselves are 'excellent' in any of the Irish colleges, well maybe only by domestic standards but certainly not by international standards. Nonetheless, I wouldn't want to bash them too much and I would have thought that objectively the standard in any of the colleges is reasonably good by international standards. Certainly there are individual academics who might be categorised as world class in some of the institutions but there really isn't as many as one might think. Anyway, I suppose Trinity has a bit more of an international reputation than the others and that might count for something if looking for work abroad or trying to access the more prestigous international academic programmes; having said that, I don't think many would actually say that TCD's LLB is any better than the law degrees offered at the other colleges though.

In Ireland we certainly seem, almost universally, to tend to overestimate just how good our law schools actually are. Even by UK standards, comparitively our law schools would in reality be struggling to match up against many of the 'redbrick' universities, and certainly wouldn't be in the same league as oxbridge or probably even the likes of UCL, LSE or KCL. To borrow a sporting phrase, I suppose you could compare the Irish law schools to 'mid-table mediocity', but then again there's a lot to be said for that..

partyguinness

In Ireland we certainly seem, almost universally, to tend to overestimate just how good our law schools actually are

I think we do that in every sphere.

We think Ireland is that greatest place in the world for everything when in reality we are not even a footnote on the world stage..like a cute little toddler that is fun to play with every so often but is pushed away when it comes to grown up talk..we have a fantastic sense of our own self importance.

Sangre

Studied at both UCD and Trinity in law. Academically I wouldn't be much pushed to recommend either (or any Irish college). There is a very lazy approach to legal thinking in Ireland, minimum lecture hours with minimal tutorials, attendance, assignments and interactions. All well and good while doing it but of little use when comparing to other more esteemed institutions.

From what I hear though since modularisation UCD has taken a good few favourable steps forward.

partyguinness

I studied BCL and LLB degrees in UCC.

I always got the impression that the staff were more interested in promoting themselves than actually preparing students. I mean they now issue a news letter every few months and its bascially "Look at us and how great we are." and the mutual back slapping is nauseating.

Its shameless self promotion.

superficies

hada wrote: »

People will invariably say TCD.

I went to Galway and it's done me no harm.

UCC is actually quite a good school also with de Londras, Mee and McMahon.

Except that loads of good people have left Trinity or are barely there (Hogan, for example) and they don't seem to do much research there in general.

And didn't de Londras move to UCD?

partyguinness

hada wrote: »

People will invariably say TCD.

I went to Galway and it's done me no harm.

UCC is actually quite a good school also with de Londras, Mee and McMahon.

McMahon..are you referring to Bryan McMahon? He hasnt lectured in UCC for over 30 years.. He is a High Court judge now.

de Londras..am fairly sure he is not in UCC.

John "Must have a funny title to my papers "Mee..yeah he is there all right.

yekrab

i thought McMahon's a circuit court judge? and i think that he lectured in both NUIG and UCC. he'd be some lecturer to have though.

Trinity got some brilliant lectures: like william Binchy, and (i think McAuley)

ah they all do, ul - McCutheon, Quill, etc

partyguinness

He was a Circuit Court judge. He was promoted last year.

r14

yekrab wrote: »

Trinity got some brilliant lectures: like william Binchy, and (i think McAuley)

McAuley is in UCD who also have Bob Clark and the McDermotts. DeLondras has moved to UCD now. Also had Casey and Kelly in their day.

EU is strong there as well with Colin Scott and Dermot Cahill.

I think UCD and Trinity are fairly evenly matched but I prefer it in UCD.

Stirling

Dermot Cahill has left - head of Law School in Bangor now. As for UCD and European Strength you're forgetting about Imelda Maher - not sure if she's lecturing undergraduates but recruiting her was a major coup

r14

Stirling wrote: »

Dermot Cahill has left - head of Law School in Bangor now. As for UCD and European Strength you're forgetting about Imelda Maher - not sure if she's lecturing undergraduates but recruiting her was a major coup

Didn't know that about Cahill but Imelda Maher is teaching the undergrad competition law course and she is excellent. I think UCD are trying to build that side up with the new PhD in European Law and Governance.

Mfwic_47

I'll be 68 this summer and enrolled in the CAO to get a Law degree ASAP. Among other things, I ran a 5 office real estate conveyancing company in the USA which insured, examined the quality of title and closed the deal. Unfortunately, I missed taking the MSAP. Would UCD or NUI Galway waive those test results? After undergraduate I received a Masters in Int'l Management, basically an MBA, in the mid '70's.

I emailed the question to the CAO but I'd like to know a little sooner.

Mfwic_47

Also, I'd like to switch to a course called Business and Law at NUI Galway

NormalBob Ubiquitypants

Mfwic_47 wrote: »

Also, I'd like to switch to a course called Business and Law at NUI Galway

Corporate Law or Law in Business?
Corporate Law is mostly law based with some business subjects. Law in Business is a commerce degree with some law modules.

Uno my Uno.

Mfwic_47 wrote: »

I'll be 68 this summer and enrolled in the CAO to get a Law degree ASAP. Among other things, I ran a 5 office real estate conveyancing company in the USA which insured, examined the quality of title and closed the deal. Unfortunately, I missed taking the MSAP. Would UCD or NUI Galway waive those test results? After undergraduate I received a Masters in Int'l Management, basically an MBA, in the mid '70's.

I emailed the question to the CAO but I'd like to know a little sooner.

I think you can apply to the Colleges direct as a mature student, open to correction on that as its been a while since I looked into it.

MarkAnthony

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

I think you can apply to the Colleges direct as a mature student, open to correction on that as its been a while since I looked into it.

Confirming that you apply directly.

conorh91

TCD or UCD is the obvious answer, although the really good students absolutely excel in UCC and NUIG, because they are big fish in little ponds: lots of opportunities to write for student publications and get involved at intervaristy events, and so on.

Moderate students, who may have been top of their class in Castlebar Tech, will get lost in TCD.

I always advise people never to undertake pure law, if possible. Broaden your options, bearing in mind the entrance requirements of the Inns and Law Society. There's a good chance you'll not be a practitioner all your life, or that you won't even live in Ireland. Aim for law with a language, but law & business is a great combo too.

Uno my Uno.

If I were doing it all again I would do Law and Business somewhere, its a powerful combination that employers love and that can also be interesting and fulfilling.

MarkAnthony

Should you not end up where you expect to go Business and Law is an ideal combination in 'lesser' law schools. There is almost a paranoia about marks over 70 in some schools. Business Schools don't tend to suffer the same worry and will award higher marks, where appropriate.

Mfwic_47

I have 40 years of entrepreneurial and biz experience. Believe me, I have probably lost well into the 9 digits in failed endeavors. It's just a good thing the winners more than balanced out the losers.

I have found that lawyers here are very protective of their profession. Heaven forbid you say that an affidavit or a deed is simply a format. I received a two hour lecture on the difference between a bothar and a boreen. It was interesting but I couldn't politely escape the conversation.

I agree with your comment.

notabasicb

I can only speak from my experience in TCD - I studied just Law and enjoyed it very much. It gives you great analytical skills. However if you have the requirements for Law and Business and have an interest in working in Corproate Law it is the one I'd go for given the chance again (irrespective of the university you eventually study in)! Employers just love it - can't blame them it's a great combo!

Friends who studied law and a language consistently complained about the difficulty of the course. I'd avoid language combos unless you are studying Spanish or Chinese which will be appealing to employers. French and German are advantageous too although perhaps to a lesser extent and your enjoyment of the course will be greatly dictated by a passion for the language and the law of that country.

hullaballoo

Mfwic_47 wrote: »

I have 40 years of entrepreneurial and biz experience. Believe me, I have probably lost well into the 9 digits in failed endeavors. It's just a good thing the winners more than balanced out the losers.

I have found that lawyers here are very protective of their profession. Heaven forbid you say that an affidavit or a deed is simply a format. I received a two hour lecture on the difference between a bothar and a boreen.

What thread is this post supposed to be in and I'll move it for you?

Mfwic_47

originally, best law school but now it's diverged somewhat

j80ezgvc3p92xu

Having attended both UCD and Trinity, I would have to say I liked UCD more. I only got a year in the new law school but it was awesome and had that new law school smell you just cannot get enough of (:

Overall, I felt UCD was better organized. For example handing in essays. In UCD I had to submit them online and could first submit a draft to see what % of my essay would be deemed copied (the system also deems bibliography and quotes as copied so it was worth a check). In TCD I have gotten my sister to drop in essays into the programme office with just my name written underneath the title. These essays were accepted no questions asked. Whenever they want you to submit them online, its just a generic Turnitin account with no draft check or report at the end.

The standard of lecturing was pretty similar, but UCD won out again on the small points. UCD is like a giant park with plenty of space to do what you want. In contrast, Trinity just feels really cramped and often there is no benches available if you just want to read a book outside. Its also full of tourists all the time. The Buttery closes at half 4 (give or take half an hour). Just lots of small annoying things... Or maybe I just can't get over UCD?

partyguinness

I believe there isnt much difference TBH. It depends on the student.

I have law degrees from UCC and an LLM from a 'red brick' university in England.

The main difference with the red brick was the resources- it had an entire law building to itself where law lectures and the library was situated plus al the lecturers and professors- the library was spread over 5 floors and had vast array of periodicals, reports and textbooks. In fact coupled with the internet it had everything from all common law jurisdictions in the world.

It didnt see a difference in the standard of lectures. In fact of the 4 lectures for my 4 subjects- only 1 was English (others were US, Cameroon and some former Soviet republic I cant remember). So from that sense it was far more international plus most of the students were foreign as in non-English.

From memory, the non-English (Chinese, Nigerian, French, Dutch, Indian, Pakistani, Malaysian, Singapore, Irish) which gave it an obvious international flavour that you would not get in Ireland plus there were far more international subjects and topics. The lecturers were also from across the world.

There were students in my class that could not speak English...I have no freckin idea how they sat, passed and understood and generally got through a pretty intense LLM.

I must say I did not find the standard any higher or lower just more resources and variety which I suppose is a plus in itself.

I did my Undergrad in Galway which I found good. The lecturers were all very thorough and professional. Was fairly behind in regards to bridging the theory - professional gap but was improving by the time I was in final year and I hear has kept improving since.

Did my Postgrad in UCD which despite having a good reputation was terrible, poor organisation, facilities were terrible (have hopefully improved with new Law building) library was terrible, my lecturers ranged from superb to absolutely abysmal. The impression I got was that if you paid the 8 grand you could phone it in for the year and be awarded a 2:1 Masters Degree.

Pat Mustard

http://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2014/sep/04/-sp-qs-world-university-rankings-2014-law

Trinity, UCC and UCD all in the top 100 universities for law worldwide, according to the Guardian.

Manach

UCC - sure its full of Cork folk, quality like.