Kawasaki events and other feedback.

Da Bounca

You have got to be kidding.

My ban is the least of the issues here. The rules you are bound or unbound by are the main issue, and the actions of other mods in the censorship of what members of the community had to say.

I don't post a lot on boards, but I read a lot of the forums. Your actions in the original thread were so wrong that I thought you were joking and had to clarify where you stood on the issue.

Jazzy

Dudess wrote: »

Sorry... you'll goad and sneer and throw out accusations against all mods, which will result in people getting defensive (obviously) and you'll sit back smugly at such a perfect example of "ganging up"?

no, thats an exaggeration.
i often find that ppl will get ahead of themselves just to throw in their own weight. the same attitudes begin to overlap and people repeat themselves and start falling into the same mannerisms as the others they are following.
i dunno, i just cant stand that high handed attitude that there is a proper way to act.

why is it such a sensitive issue to you anyway that you have to exaggerate and presume so much? much less accuse me of being smug and that ill goad and sneer accusations. me thinks that every time something like this is brought up that there is an over-defence from mods. a pro active defence of the type you would normally find from politicians when they are accused of something or football managers when all is not right with their team.
i dunno, u could get one of your men of honour to check this up

Dudess

Jazzy wrote: »

no, thats an exaggeration.

No it isn't.

i often find that ppl will get ahead of themselves just to throw in their own weight. the same attitudes begin to overlap and people repeat themselves and start falling into the same mannerisms as the others they are following.

Yeah, I notice that too and I find it objectionable. But evidently that's not possible because I'm a mod.

why is it such a sensitive issue to you anyway that you have to exaggerate and presume so much? much less accuse me of being smug and that ill goad and sneer accusations.

Oh I don't know... perhaps because it's grating when the same old conspiracy sh1t is brought up day in, day out.

me thinks that every time something like this is brought up that there is an over-defence from mods. a pro active defence of the type you would normally find from politicians when they are accused of something or football managers when all is not right with their team.

Have you ever had constant, constant attacks on you as part of a group based on paranoia/the flaws of a minority? It gets most tedious.

i dunno, u could get one of your men of honour to check this up

More goading. Incidentally, I thought that was funny initially, then I saw the resentment it caused (including from some moderators) so I've distanced myself from it since.

humanji

Da Bounca wrote: »

Like I said.
"It's also a sad sign that both mods and users alike can't take issues like this seriously and would prefer to poke holes in posts over points that don't even matter."

No, I haven't been trolling.

I'm simply showing the same intollerence and arrogance you display. The only difference is I'm putting it on, but you're serious. You wanted peoples opinions and you got them, as heavily weighted against yourself as they were. What more would you like? I mean, it's a simple progression:

User makes racist remark
User is banned for breaking the charter
Another user questions mod
Mod tells second user to take it to helpdesk
User makes sarky remark while still questioning the mod
Mod bans user for breaking the charter.

That's it. Nothing more to it. The mod followed the rules and two users were banned. You then go on a complaint spree. All of these have been pretty much covered, I think. That's all there is to it.

The whole thing can be wrapped up with the simple phrase: After almost 10 years, you should of known better than to break the charter.

Jazzy

just pointing out that yes, there is cliques. heck im part of a few online. and there is no conspiracy theory in my eyes. i know for pretty much fact that there is a constant circle jerk going on on boards as regards how mods get picked and such. sure, there are many many good mods but then there are some ppl (who i know personally) who should never on gods green earth be given mod status but have it.
normally u can tell who got modship by ham shandys pretty easily. its not so much a conspiracy, its just how things are done. is it fair? questionable. but the same sh1t happens in offices and workplaces the world over. ultimately life isnt fair, but u just have to deal with it.

and if pointing this out once in a while makes you feel better, then c'est la vie

Gordon

Jazzy wrote: »

just pointing out that yes, there is cliques. heck im part of a few online. and there is no conspiracy theory in my eyes. i know for pretty much fact that there is a constant circle jerk going on on boards

So, ganging up happens and you're ok with it.

Jazzy

Gordon wrote: »

So, ganging up happens and you're ok with it.

it happens, im not exactly ok with it, but i get on with it.. as i pointed out in my post

tallaght01

Gordon wrote: »

So, ganging up happens and you're ok with it.

It happens a lot, and most people are OK with it, by default.

It's all gotten a bit mad here. But I think this could have all been nipped in the bud.

I don't think the "racist" guy is racists, and prob would have been fine with being asked to edit his post.

The guy who had the gaul to argue on thread was just part of 2 people winding each other up, as people do. But only 1 gets banned.

I really believe that banning an adult from a forum should be a total last resort.

Sure, it can be time consuming. But get more mods.

Someone on the older threads mentioned knowing when to be human (as opposed to being a slave to a charter) and I think they were spot on.

It just works so much better. I know this thread isn't about Dr Bollocko, but he's an AH mod.....we had a "misunderstanding" the other day. He sent me a really sound PM. He has a manner about him which made it really difficult to even think about getting annoyed at him.

That kind of thing gets people onside.

Deleting posts in feedback posts because they don't tow the line doesn't.

Jazzy

julep wrote: »

This thread is a testament to the fact that you think you are beyond banning because you have been a member here for so long and when you do get banned, you think you can come in here with your buddies and bully people into giving you what you want.

i dont think he thinks he was beyond banning, i think he thinks he was unfairly treated.
in my view he was. u responded to him like a robot designed to spout procedures instead of actually talking. u probably dont consider that a rude attitude because u have been modding for so long on boards now. which is kinda the point i was making, be a bit more mellow and human and ppl will respect u... old members and new.
if u dont want to be respected and instead follow an ad hoc charter originally designed by a scoundrel of a quake player (giblet) then go right ahead. as u said, u arent here to make friends

FlutterinBantam

If you want to be respected I'd start by ditching the text speak buddy.

Da Bounca

If you want a bit of respect start showing a little tolerance towards others bantam.

humanji wrote: »

User makes racist remark
User is banned for breaking the charter
Another user questions mod
Mod tells second user to take it to helpdesk
User makes sarky remark while still questioning the mod
Mod bans user for breaking the charter.

In fairness Humanjii, what the hell are you on about?

Please re-read the thread, namely the very first post.
Actually, I better spell it out for you.

meboloxitis makes a remark deemed by julep to be racist. It isn't.
meboloxitis is humiliated and banned by julep.
dabounca thought mod was joking(as the ban was ridiculous).
julep menacingly replies to go to the help desk.
dabounca gives julep sarcastic question for having an attitude problem.
julep bans dabounca for arguing. (won't even start goin into this).
dabounca goes to help desk for help.
help desk thread gets locked without discussion.
PMs are sent. Issue is not resolved and julep refuses to continue discussion.
Thread is started by user jazzy on feedback.
Thread is heavily edited and moved to help desk to halt community invlolement in thread.
Beruthiel has yet to address this.
Finally this thread is created in feedback to shed light on the happenings.
Unwanted trolls invade thread and kill any chance of resolution.

That's the jist of it Humanjii, and after more than 10 years on boards, I expected a little more from some mods and users alike.

If you can't see the underlying issues and problem addressed in this thread, then please take no further part in it.

Oh look, you got some thanks. Feel your post is justified now? Especially being thanked by a moderator and a future moderator?

Overheal

I love how you talk about tolerance and then spend 10 minutes dressing down another poster.

DeVore

Future moderator??


Um... would you have any interest in standing behind me while I play some poker perhaps?

This thread has meandered far and wide. I'll try to get back to the substantive issue in it tomorrow. After that it has a short life expectancy.

DeV.

Da Bounca

What's dressing down?


I spent 10 minutes correcting a poster if that's what you mean?


Thanks for focusing on yet another sub-issue though overheal. Can you take a look at the bigger picture some time and tell me what you think of it?
It ain't pretty.

The Recliner

Da Bounca wrote: »

julep menacingly replies to go to the help desk

That is an hilarious skewing of events :rolleyes:

Da Bounca

No it isn't. julep meant it to be threatening. Hence the response.

The Recliner

Da Bounca wrote: »

No it isn't. julep meant it to be threatening. Hence the response.

It was a warning as on thread disputing of bannings is a no no

It was neither threatening nor menacing

Fair enough if you percieved it that way but as you keep bringing up how long you have been on Boards you really should have known that

javaboy

Da Bounca wrote: »

No it isn't. julep meant it to be threatening. Hence the response.

I've said the same or similar thing to what julep said in threads and I've never meant it as threatening. Abrupt or coarse maybe and yes there's the implied threat that if you don't follow the direction, you may be banned.... but to call it "menacing" is just ridiculous.

You're inferring things that simply aren't there imo.

Da Bounca

The Recliner wrote: »

It was a warning as on thread disputing of bannings is a no no

It was neither threatening nor menacing

Fair enough if you percieved it that way but as you keep bringing up how long you have been on Boards you really should have known that

Firstly, there was no dispute. Can people not grasp this yet?
Secondly, it was most definitely a threat.

Tone and context have been mentioned a lot in this thread, you'd think that people would take this on board as it plays a large role in the understanding of what is going on.

I mentioned originally how long I have been on boards as it is not often in the history of boards that a mod decides for a nation what is and what isn't racist, and I don't keep bringing it up... It was brought up incorrectly by Humanjii so I corrected him is all.

The Recliner

Da Bounca wrote: »

Firstly, there was no dispute. Can people not grasp this yet?

Most people posting here seem to have seen it as you disputing the mods decision, now I know this wasn't your intention but surely you can see how it was interpreted as such?

Secondly, it was most definitely a threat.

Tone and context have been mentioned a lot in this thread, you'd think that people would take this on board as it plays a large role in the understanding of what is going on.

It wasn't a threat, mods give warnings like that all the time and rightly so
The threat of a banning was there but that is different to the post being threatening

[Qoute]
I mentioned originally how long I have been on boards as it is not often in the history of boards that a mod decides for a nation what is and what isn't racist, and I don't keep bringing it up... It was brought up incorrectly by Humanjii so I corrected him is all.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough on how long you have been here thing, just have seen it a couple of times
It may not happen often that a Mod takes such action but does that make it wrong? Things like that can flare up quickly and turn into car crashes, imo it is better to act early and keep things in check

Jazzy

javaboy wrote: »

yes there's the implied threat that if you don't follow the direction, you may be banned

straight from a mods mouth, not menacing.. but an implied threat

how do ppl normally respond to implied threats ?

The Recliner

Jazzy wrote: »

straight from a mods mouth, not menacing.. but an implied threat

how do ppl normally respond to implied threats ?

In real life if a guard warns someone that they need to be careful, most people would heed that warning, no?

javaboy

Jazzy wrote: »

straight from a mods mouth, not menacing.. but an implied threat

how do ppl normally respond to implied threats ?

Oh God you really are intent on twisting things. It's like the Garda analogy above. If a guard signals you to stop, there's an implied threat that if you don't stop, things will get messy. That doesn't mean he's actually "threatening" you.

If you choose to see it as a menacing threat, that's your problem but it's really not.

Overheal

Da Bounca wrote: »

Thanks for focusing on yet another sub-issue though overheal. Can you take a look at the bigger picture some time and tell me what you think of it?
It ain't pretty.

You want the big picture? Here,



I'm afraid I can't elaborate on this any further without incurring some kind of aneurysm. Time Out is over and all those involved can go play outside again and step away from the corner.

Jazzy

javaboy wrote: »

Oh God you really are intent on twisting things. It's like the Garda analogy above. If a guard signals you to stop, there's an implied threat that if you don't stop, things will get messy. That doesn't mean he's actually "threatening" you.

If you choose to see it as a menacing threat, that's your problem but it's really not.

but you, and the other mods arent gaurds and do not warrant the same respect that they do. if a gaurd says it, ur right - i will listen. because they are a trained civil servant who have worked hard to be where they are.
moderators are janitors and turn-keys, dont compare yourself or any other mod here to a gaurd, unless they actually happen to be one of course.

you are a person, speak to ppl like you are.. there is no need for "implied threats". thats the point. all this would have been avoided if terry had done so

The Recliner

Jazzy wrote: »

but you, and the other mods arent gaurds and do not warrant the same respect that they do. if a gaurd says it, ur right - i will listen. because they are a trained civil servant who have worked hard to be where they are.
moderators are janitors and turn-keys, dont compare yourself or any other mod here to a gaurd, unless they actually happen to be one of course.

you are a person, speak to ppl like you are.. there is no need for "implied threats". thats the point. all this would have been avoided if terry had done so

You don't have respect for janitors, they do important work

That aside, Julep isn't the only Mod to use phrases like that, do you have a problem with all of them or is it just this instance because your friend was involved?

K-9

javaboy wrote: »

Oh God you really are intent on twisting things. It's like the Garda analogy above. If a guard signals you to stop, there's an implied threat that if you don't stop, things will get messy. That doesn't mean he's actually "threatening" you.

If you choose to see it as a menacing threat, that's your problem but it's really not.

Jazzy wrote: »

but you, and the other mods arent gaurds and do not warrant the same respect that they do. if a gaurd says it, ur right - i will listen. because they are a trained civil servant who have worked hard to be where they are.
moderators are janitors and turn-keys, dont compare yourself or any other mod here to a gaurd, unless they actually happen to be one of course.

you are a person, speak to ppl like you are.. there is no need for "implied threats". thats the point. all this would have been avoided if terry had done so

The Recliner wrote: »

You don't have respect for janitors, they do important work

That aside, Julep isn't the only Mod to use phrases like that, do you have a problem with all of them or is it just this instance because your friend was involved?

Facepalm on all sides!

Godwins next? Natural progression.

Jazzy

The Recliner wrote: »

You don't have respect for janitors, they do important work

That aside, Julep isn't the only Mod to use phrases like that, do you have a problem with all of them or is it just this instance because your friend was involved?

i respect janitors. i respect gaurds more. but that wouldnt be in line with u wanting me to sound like i dont respect mods would it?

i havent a problem with all mods, clearly, wat i have a problem with is the overbearing attitude and the "stick first" mentality. if u had read the thread you would know this.

get urself a pound of swiss cheese. count the holes there if u wanna try and play that game

The Recliner

Jazzy wrote: »

i respect janitors. i respect gaurds more. but that wouldnt be in line with u wanting me to sound like i dont respect mods would it?

i havent a problem with all mods, clearly, wat i have a problem with is the overbearing attitude and the "stick first" mentality. if u had read the thread you would know this.

get urself a pound of swiss cheese. count the holes there if u wanna try and play that game

The janitor comment was tounge in cheek, couldn't resist it
I don't want to make you sound like anything, I have no agenda here

Was just curious as to your motives is all and I have read the thread and the other thread too and I guess I just don't see things the same as you

I am not playing any games but this is feedback and I can question things just as you can, tis the only reason I am here, idle curiosity

The stick first mentality works imo, yes it will cause some people grief but that is a small price to pay for keeping order
It is just unfortunate that people cannot be trusted to behave and the stick is required at all

javaboy

Jazzy wrote: »

but you, and the other mods arent gaurds and do not warrant the same respect that they do. if a gaurd says it, ur right - i will listen. because they are a trained civil servant who have worked hard to be where they are.
moderators are janitors and turn-keys, dont compare yourself or any other mod here to a gaurd, unless they actually happen to be one of course.

you are a person, speak to ppl like you are.. there is no need for "implied threats". thats the point. all this would have been avoided if terry had done so

I was trying to convey the idea that there can be an implied threat in something without that thing itself being threatening or menacing. I just happened to use a Garda as an example.