Kawasaki events and other feedback.

Da Bounca · 02-02-2009 8:00pm

julep wrote: »

Just to address the emboldened parts:
Dub code? Why would you need a code to refer to those of a different race?

As for Pakistani folk using the word regularly, I suggest you think hard about another people who use a word regularly to refer to each other. It begins with "N".

Please don't compare them. That's ridiculous behaviour.

julep wrote:

My first experiences of the word "Paki" are as follows:
Like most people in this country, I grew up in a place with very few foreign people, apart from white British.
A friend's cousin was here on holiday from Sunderland. He told us of his "Paki basking" exploits.
Another friend's cousin came over from Birmingham. He also spoke of his "Paki bashing" adventures. The fact that he then told us that "the ****in' Paki's bet me up though" is neither here not there.

Now you will forgive me if I associate the word "Paki" with racism, but that exactly how I see it.

Well I suppose it is clear where your incomprehension of the term came from and perhaps your mistakes can be forgiven.

julep wrote:

Also, what DeVore said about the British royals.

Wouldn't want to forget to mention the almighty admin in the thread, might add some more weight to your argument.

seamus wrote: »

It's nothing to do with censored words. It's the intention of the word.

seamus wrote:

What is acceptable and what isn't is part common sense and part charter. Mods actions are very transparent and tbh it's only necessary to tell others why someone was banned if you want to discourage similar postings. In this case, julep made it very clear why the ban was being handed out - racism. He said it, there on the thread.
If you know what "kawasaki" means in this context, then you should know that it's not an acceptable term. Let's go back to the word "pikey". If you know what that means, then you'd know that you don't use it.

In that context, there was no racial abuse. It was a friendly term for his co-workers and their joint amusement at the junkie's in their shop. It is how you say it. He didn't go up to a Pakistani and point his finger at him and say 'You're a fukcin Paki'. Even if he had, you could then argue that if someone said 'You're a fukcin Paddy', they'd be a racist too. It is the manner in which it is said. To find fault with kawasakis is to make fault with it.

faceman wrote: »

Im not up with the kids these days but wasnt the OP banned for giving lip to a mod (after being told not)?

Nope, the OP was banned for being a racist, and I was banned for arguing with a mod. Neither were true.

faceman wrote:

Its pretty obvious that the term Kawasaki was used as a slur to describe punters from Pakistan.

Sorry but no. Have to disagree. It's quite obvious from the orignal thread that there is no trace of racial bigotry or slurring.

faceman wrote:

while at the time I personaly eckoned that maybe the ban could have been sorted with a few clear the air PM's, the OP in this thread has done nothing but stir up trouble on the issue rather than construct useful feedback on his views on the matter. On reflection, julep made the right decision.

Again, the OP hasn't voiced his opinion on the matter, and I thank you for taking the time to read up on this argument. The matter was taken to PM, and not resolved there.

faceman wrote:

If he has an issue with how mods handle racial remarks etc then start a constructive thread to that effect. But starting a thread dragging in elements of irrelevent matters, such as his own ban, is nothing but shoite stirring in my opinion.

The first thread created to address the issue was locked with no discussion about the matter. The second thread created to address the issue was moved so that nobody could continue posting on it and had half of it's posts deleted so that it looked like a train wreck thread. The ban I received is the least of my concern.

CuLT wrote: »

Seeing as Ledgehammer, Da Bounca and Funky are all posting from the same IP address I think we can safely assume this is just defend-your-mates-to-the-bitter-end.

The only genuine clique operating here is your own, ironically.

This isn't the case.

Kiera wrote: »

Aw, Dudess. You've just burst my bubble. I thought if i thanked enough mods i'd get a modship

No you were right, that is the way it works.

tbh · 02-02-2009 8:26pm

to be honest with you man, your whole argument revolves around whether the term paki is ok or not. Doesn't matter whether it was rhyming slang or not, that's what it boils down to. If you were in a job interview, and assuming it was relevant, would you mention the fact that you spent some time training a load of pakis? or would you call them pakistanis? I think I know what the answer is, and I have to ask- if it's not acceptable to use that type of expression in an interview, why should it be here?

"Paki" doesn't fall into "pub language". And like it or not, it does have racist connotations - I'm not saying that it's usage is always racist - but it is a word with racist overtones, and so it should always be used with sensitivity. Basically, if pakistanis don't like it, who am I to tell them they have to get used to it. It's no big deal to me to just not use it. Obviously the majority of users on boards agree with me, because that kind of language is rarely used and this is the first feedback thread in ages on the subject. It's not really a problem.

Caliden · 02-02-2009 8:28pm

kawasaki isnt slang for paki, its slang for pakastani.

Two completely different words.

javaboy · 02-02-2009 8:30pm

Caliden wrote: »

kawasaki isnt slang for paki, its slang for pakastani.

Two completely different words.

Can you explain where it comes from then? I had assumed it was rhyming slang for paki.

D-Generate · 02-02-2009 8:31pm

Is Paddy, Brit or Yank offensive?

Caliden · 02-02-2009 8:33pm

javaboy wrote: »

Can you explain where it comes from then? I had assumed it was rhyming slang for paki.

Because it rhymes with kawasaki? Who knows, kids are crazy:rolleyes:

Nerin · 02-02-2009 8:36pm

Da Bounca wrote: »

Thanking is the most retarded thing to hit boards yet.

....
*ponders*

....

nah....

javaboy · 02-02-2009 8:37pm

Caliden wrote: »

Because it rhymes with kawasaki? Who knows, kids are crazy:rolleyes:

Rubbish. As Da Bounca said earlier:

It does rhyme with paki, which some would deem a derogatory word, but in fact it is an abbreviation of the full word Pakistani. No racism there.
Kawasaki is part of a cockney rhyming style slang.

It's rhyming slang for Paki. It does not rhyme with Pakistani and you know it.

tbh · 02-02-2009 8:38pm

Caliden wrote: »

kawasaki isnt slang for paki, its slang for pakastani.

Two completely different words.

kawaSAKI, PAKI
kawaSAKI, Pakistani

I'm not seeing it man. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you genuinely think differently.

D-Generate wrote: »

Is Paddy, Brit or Yank offensive?

It's a bar in machester airport. You're in a queue for burger king, talking on your phone. The group of English lads in front of you can't decide what they want and gesture to you saying "serve paddy here while we're making up our mind". How do you feel?

Brit and yank have never been used in the same way as paki so it's not really a valid argument. Are paki, paddy and ****** offensive? Yes, but more to the point, I don't really want to spend any time in the company of the type of people who think it's clever to use those terms. just my opinion tho.

Caliden · 02-02-2009 8:44pm

javaboy wrote: »

Rubbish. As Da Bounca said earlier:

It's rhyming slang for Paki. It does not rhyme with Pakistani and you know it.

Im from galway so I doubt that very much sonny

Jazzy · 02-02-2009 8:45pm

Caliden wrote: »

kawasaki isnt slang for paki, its slang for pakastani.

Two completely different words.

but but but but.... terry grew up and met ppl that used the term paki a lot in a racist way so obviously this brand of motorcycle / rhyming slag with someones country of origin is clearly racist.
so terry is basically saying that due to his experiences with racist brits when he was younger he took the fast route, didnt really think about it and banned someone. then if asked if he was joking, told someone to go to the help desk because "he doesnt mince his words". when rebuffed and had his attitude questioned, he banned the other guy.
who says personnal opinions and experiences dont come into modding ?

javaboy wrote:

Can you explain where it comes from then? I had assumed it was rhyming slang for paki.

kawasaki
pakistani

same amount of syllables . same flow to the word. same up-down rhyme to the word.

ka-wa-sa-ki
pa-kis-tan-i

kawasaki
paki

nope. paki only sounds like the end of the brand of motorcycle. think that is more coincidence based.

the mod used his own personal opinion in making the call. he got it wrong. now if a good few other ppl that have posted here are questioning that too, do u not think that there is a chance he was? its not like we are making this up to have a go at boards.ie and the ppl that run it. tis a bit sad to want to do that. having said that - i did see a large amount of circle jerking on the last page there.

still no word on why my original thread was moved tho. but beruthial did take the time out to give some thanks on the last page there. dunno, her left hand could have been somewhere in the circle and its difficult to type when so encumbered

javaboy wrote:

It's rhyming slang for Paki. It does not rhyme with Pakistani and you know it.

see? mods can be wrong. look above to see why. also - study more poetry if u are going to get in to discussing rhyme

javaboy · 02-02-2009 8:46pm

Caliden wrote: »

Im from galway so I doubt that very much sonny

So what? You somehow pronounce Kawasaki so that it rhymes with Pakistani?

Caliden · 02-02-2009 8:48pm

javaboy wrote: »

So what? You somehow pronounce Kawasaki so that it rhymes with Pakistani?

Read jazzy's post on the pronunciation of the english language, it's very insightful.

tbh · 02-02-2009 8:53pm

Jazzy wrote: »

see? mods can be wrong. look above to see why. also - study more poetry if u are going to get in to discussing rhyme

mate - with respect, I'd drop the patronising bit pretty quickly. The only reason no-one has posted to refute your argument is that it's so pathetic, in order to post it you must be deliberately taking the piss, or else you genuinely believe it. Either way, trying to argue with you would be a complete waste of time.

edit: actually, dudess will probably give it a go

Jazzy · 02-02-2009 9:07pm

tbh wrote: »

mate - with respect, I'd drop the patronising bit pretty quickly. The only reason no-one has posted to refute your argument is that it's so pathetic, in order to post it you must be deliberately taking the piss, or else you genuinely believe it. Either way, trying to argue with you would be a complete waste of time.

my point is that javaboy more then likely doesnt study poetry, therefore has no insight as to how words rhyme but is somehow able to define that kawasaki and pakistani dont rhyme. they do rhyme. i think that is clear enough and if it isnt, then i dunno wat can be said. but his decision in saying that they dont rhyme is a personal one and is very much open to criticism.
take that example as a reflection on what is being said in this thread as a whole. basically - if u dont know what you are talking about then you can't really make a decision that is fair and even. terry didnt know wat he was talking about, made a decision based on experiences with nasty ppl when he was younger and banned two users.

as i said before, a line or 2 of explanation to dabounca and a bit of humanity and this would be a non-issue. heck, you could have even split the thread and started a new topic on dub slang and racist terms. but nope, stick first.

tbh · 02-02-2009 9:25pm

Jazzy wrote: »

my point is that javaboy more then likely doesnt study poetry, therefore has no insight as to how words rhyme but is somehow able to define that kawasaki and pakistani dont rhyme. they do rhyme. i think that is clear enough and if it isnt, then i dunno wat can be said.

To claim it's not a crime,
because the words don't rhyme,
is such a pile of pooh,
because,
clearly,
they do.

sorry, I never studied poetry either.

GuanYin · 02-02-2009 9:33pm

There is such a thing as intent you know.

When you watch a Samuel L. Jackson on cable TV and they dub him to shout "You gadang Mother-lover" you don't think...

"Wow, Sammy is really excited that the man he's talking to is kind to his Mom!"

IF you want to be an ignorant racist pig, the chances are you don't need to use special words or wear a pillowcase on your head to let us know your intent.

orestes · 02-02-2009 9:33pm

I haven't studied poetry so I don't know much about words rhyming.

I did study philosophy though so I know a bullshit arguement when I see one

Jazzy · 02-02-2009 9:57pm

tbh wrote: »

To claim it's not a crime,
because the words don't rhyme,
is such a pile of pooh,
because,
clearly,
they do.

sorry, I never studied poetry either.

i get wat you are saying, but its really really obvious that pakistani and kawasaki rhyme. how ppl can say they dont is beyond me.
wat i was highlighting through saying "never studied poetry" is the fact that one will never be able to account for every possible situation that can arise by being a mod. but if you dont know wat you are talking about, then at least try and understand it logically instead of relying on past experiences with colourful characters which lead to the stick first attitude, and are decisions that are also based on personal bias.

i thought the philosophy guy there should have got that one. perhaps he was only looking as deep as he wanted to go and found an answer that suited him best

javaboy · 02-02-2009 10:10pm

Jazzy wrote: »

my point is that javaboy more then likely doesnt study poetry, therefore has no insight as to how words rhyme but is somehow able to define that kawasaki and pakistani dont rhyme. they do rhyme. i think that is clear enough and if it isnt, then i dunno wat can be said. but his decision in saying that they dont rhyme is a personal one and is very much open to criticism.

I've only studied poetry to Leaving Cert level which I'll be the first to admit, counts for sweet F.A. But I do know a little about rhyming slang. The entire term isn't expected to rhyme with the word but usually the word is expected to rhyme with the end of the term.

Some examples: (I've bolded the bits that rhyme imo.)
Dog and bone: phone
Apples and pears: stairs
Brown bread: dead
Loaf of bread: head

As your friend Da Bounca has already said, kawasaki is rhyming slang for Paki not for Pakistani. It also conveniently fits in with the above examples.

Kawasaki: Paki

Why you insist on making the argument that Kawasaki is intended as a rhyme with Pakistani instead of the much more obvious Paki, I don't know.

take that example as a reflection on what is being said in this thread as a whole. basically - if u dont know what you are talking about then you can't really make a decision that is fair and even. terry didnt know wat he was talking about, made a decision based on experiences with nasty ppl when he was younger and banned two users.

Even if kawasaki rhymes with pakistani and not paki.
And even if Terry jumped the gun based on some past experiences and made a mistake in banning meboloxitis.
And even if he's an arrogant arsehole who will never back down and admit he's wrong.

Even if all those things are true, which I don't believe they are, the second ban was still deserved. Call it arguing with a mod or call it giving cheek to a mod. It was still a violation of the charter and well and truly deserved.

Incidentally, where is the thread from mebolixitis complaining about unfairly being labelled as a racist?

Overheal · 02-02-2009 10:51pm

Jazzy wrote: »

i get wat you are saying, but its really really obvious that pakistani and kawasaki rhyme. how ppl can say they dont is beyond me.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pakistani

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kawasaki

...........http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rhyme

Jazzy · 02-02-2009 10:59pm

javaboy wrote: »

Why you insist on making the argument that Kawasaki is intended as a rhyme with Pakistani instead of the much more obvious Paki, I don't know.

ya have a great arguement there but ur problem is that kawasaki has letters before the aki bit too and they also happen to rhyme with pakastani. the whole word is the rhyme, not "paki". maybe u & terry are too eager to look at something as racist first in this context and not anything else. and that is paranoid OTT modding.

when did anyone say or suggest that terry is a arrogant asshole? is that not ur own paranoia of the implied coming through again? much like the example to do with that word "kawasaki"?
exactly wat i was talking about before. looking to moderate. looking to apply rules. zero humanity.

and that is the crux of wat im saying - terry & the rest of the mods that i can see posting here should be a bit more human in how they approach things like this. especially cases where they dont understand wats going on. its fine not mincing ones words but at the same time terry told someone where to go but wat was needed was a more human response and a bit of clarification. i think that is wat dabounca was expecting, but instead he had someone jump down his throat.
all would have been avoided by being a bit more human and a bit more real.

imagine this happened:

billy - "see them 2 kawasakis"
jimmy - "see 2 who?"
billy - "kawasakis. rhyming slang for pakistanis"
jimmy - "thats fairly racist"
brian - "joking?"
jimmy - "go to the help desk"

yup - it makes no sense. now replace jimmys last line with the following
jimmy - "sounds like rhyming slang to me for paki's which is racist"

and u have a whole new topic and a more human interaction and brian gets a reaction which he can understand and converse with.

so is it maybe not terrys fault for not talking to someone like they are a human being?

Overheal wrote: »

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pakistani

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kawasaki

are you really trying to tell me that the two words, pakastani and kawasaki dont rhyme? im actually not sure wats going on here. the two words rhyme and posting links to dictionary.com doesnt change that. im not going to explain the up-down nature of the rhyme but try saying the syllables slowly and see which way ur breath and tone change. "pa" "ka". "kis" - ur voice goes lower for this sound, as it does for this - "wa". "ta" - voice goes higher here, as it does for "sa". and then finally they both end on the same level - "ni" "ki"

Terry · 02-02-2009 11:12pm

Wait, so we are supposed to take lessons in poetry from someone who continually uses text speak?

Also, is this guy saying that the post containing the word Kawasaki was a poem?

Listen, you are really pissing into the wind here.
Both bans will be lifted tomorrow at about 2PM, give or take an hour or two.
There will be nothing else done about this. Absolutely nothing at all.
You can moan here to your heart's content, but it will not change a single thing that has happened.

Overheal · 02-02-2009 11:16pm

I thought you might say something asinine like that... I came prepared :pac:

As much as they dont rhyme, its irrelevant. If we started calling n*ggers Tiggers would it be OK because LOOK~! THEY RHYME!

Rhyme is not a defense; but I will point out how silly the street urchins in Dublin appear to be when it comes to Poetry - which is odd, because you have Yeats' Bench to go sit on if you needed real inspiration. Im thinking of Yeats, right?

julep wrote: »

Listen, you are really pissing into the wind here.
Both bans will be lifted tomorrow at about 2PM, give or take an hour or two.

No chance of an extension?

dr.bollocko · 02-02-2009 11:18pm

/kof.
http://www.dublintourist.com/virtual_dublin/city_centre/kavanagh_on_bench.shtml

Jazzy · 02-02-2009 11:31pm

how the hell are ppl there saying the two words dont rhyme? ill ask a professor or something college tomorow and see wat the deal is. i actually dont understand at all how ppl can say they dont rhyme.

and terry wins the award for bringing up my txt speak first. love the referring to me of "this guy" too. grammar schmammer on teh net. its more about ease of talking then anything else. if im writing an essay or something i dare not use txt speak. i do admit that sometimes i do use it on purpose just so someone can bring it up. it shows the attitude. the want to overbear and the paranoia which i was suggesting earlier.

but seeming that you have no answer to the actual point i was making, the humanity, i really cannot be bothered. it seems more like the want and need to nitpick to justify your own short comings. i know its just "some guy" saying this, but do you not see how all this could have been avoided just by being a bit more mellow and intuitive?

tbh · 02-02-2009 11:40pm

Jazzy wrote: »

how the hell are ppl there saying the two words dont rhyme? ill ask a professor or something college tomorow and see wat the deal is. i actually dont understand at all how ppl can say they dont rhyme.

please do this. PLEASE please please do this. If you could record it on video somehow, it would be magic. thanks!

Overheal · 02-02-2009 11:41pm

If he will attach a .wav file to his next post of him pronouncing the two words, it would clear things up a lot...

Jazzy · 02-02-2009 11:50pm

tbh wrote: »

please do this. PLEASE please please do this. If you could record it on video somehow, it would be magic. thanks!

no problemo. it would almost be as sad as asking ppl on yahoo if the words rhyme or not.

no other answers or are we just going to leave it at "the txt speaking wannabe thespian thinks that two words rhyme. lets ignore everything else and focus on this. and btw jerk it at the lower end of the shaft going upwards."

Overheal wrote: »

If he

loving the third person dismissive tone again here. think i actually have struck a nerve. if you act non-chalant and smug then i definitely dont have a point

Caliden · 02-02-2009 11:52pm

tbh wrote: »

please do this. PLEASE please please do this. If you could record it on video somehow, it would be magic. thanks!

please keep the thread constructive, thanks.

Kawasaki events and other feedback.

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