Obamas' Election.

mickeydevine

Something keeps nagging at me about his election victory. If 'you' were in control of the American political system i.e Bush sr and big business then to get the American people back on side Obama fits the bill perfectly. Another George Bush wouldn't have worked. To fix the election for him to win I couldn't think of a better running mate for McCain tan Sarah Palin (creationist, pro hunt, red neck). She almost lost the election for him single handed, she was always in the news doing something stupid. Who was Obamas' running mate? I can't help but feel the wool has been pulled over our eyes again and he'll be a subtle 'puppet' of the old school, possibly been groomed for years. I hope I'm wrong.

Offalycool

It's kinda suspicious, especially when you consider that McCain supposedly said of Obamas potential cabinet nominees "that many of these appointments he would have made himself."

Source.

mysterious

I hear what your saying, and I can see why you asked that point.

Politics in America especially coming up to elections actually turns simply into a disney movie. Why cus the 300million people turn into looney toons. People go hysterical. But it's actually the Media and powers of be, who determine and manipulate the masses to vote on or the other.

They have mastered thisover the years, by this as follow's
The powers of be put it to you like this. Toss a coin.
Black, white.
Yay nay
He's good, He's bad
Head's, tails
Obama, Mcain.

The two sides of the coin, are faces. but of the same coin.
Obama and Mccain are people on either side of the spectrum. Like every single planned out election in this history of American politics. American politics is driven by far right and far left party system's. Divide is one of the classic way's to gain power over a nation. Politics is fuelled by conflict and division. In the American system you dont have much freedom but just Giving them two option only to really vote for. They the people will go for only one or the other. In this case Democrats and Republicans in America. Both parties, are run and funded by the same cooperations, banks, riches, familes etc etc.............. It's about money nothing else.

Fox news = republican
CNN = Democrat

Both work for each other, to get the country spun into deception.
The media play an important role, in how an election plays out in America. You might think your actually voting for one and not the other. You might think the right wing is blabbbing about the left, or vice versa, But in reality your voting one of the same or one of the same to be precise. Both Mccain and Obama have the same backing in terms of support or money in the very top of the spectrum.
Obama in office, suits the purpose of now. The opposing figure of Bush. Ironic.


American politics, is aloud of bullsh!t.

AngryHippie

Yeah, He's been kept very much out of the limelight, But to be fair, Obama does seem to have some very savvy Foreign affairs projects, like sending George Mitchell to Gaza, although I seriously question the sense in sending another woman to Iran, It is pretty contrary to Islamic culture, whether our gender neutral society likes it or not, she may have problems in her job that a man would not encounter. Time will tell, but he cannot be as bad as a Puppet with private Military company pulling the strings.

sceptre

Normally I'd view the opening post as making this thread more at home in the Conspiracy Theories forum but as there's moderately rational discussion as a result, moved to US Politics. No idea why it was originally put in Political Theory, assume the OP misinterpreted what that forum is about (note, it's not the Political Theories forum)

Overheal

No, when you bring Nostradamus into a politics thread, it really belongs in Conspiracy Theories. If you have verifiable proof, then we'll talk. Until then, its wild speculation from the foil hat brigade.

mickeydevine

Overheal wrote: »

No, when you bring Nostradamus into a politics thread, it really belongs in Conspiracy Theories. If you have verifiable proof, then we'll talk. Until then, its wild speculation from the foil hat brigade.

Jesus wept, i've edited it, happy. So pretty please can it stay here. (or move it if people are gonna get their knickers in a twist).:rolleyes:

mysterious

Guys I'm on many international forums on politics. I don't see the attitude and constant nit picking on other's people's opinion. Overheal relax. Let the man voice his opinion's. It's called free speech.

Notradamus made claims on many political instants, some came true. This maybe coincidential but valid. I dont understand why people on here have to be so ignorant towards other's just cus they don't like someones opinion.

On topic
Your right mickeydevine. If you actually look closely you will even see that the Right wing worked for Obama. They brought up petty issues like smoking and trivial stuff. To make it look like Obamawas an escapegoat and didn't have skeletons in his closet. This actually worked to Obamas way. Funny that it was the result. The right wing actually played it up for him. Throwing abuse at him over silly stuff. Reverse psycology works here. The people then feel in awe for him and begin to like him. That was the result. When people were on his side. The right wing literally stopped once Sarah palin was thrown out. In other words, the right and left work together to get the result. One can go without the other.

There are many many people with this opinion. American elections are staged anybody with a brain would know that. Its called opening your eyes and ears, and stop payign attention to the news and what other's tell you. The media in America is hugley manipulative and biased. Some American's are waking up though.

sceptre

Still touch and go, Mickey. Overheal has a good point but I'm still leaving it here for the moment.

OK, I don't accept from the start that Obama's been groomed by a hidden group, I'm working on the assumption that you don't think there are puppet masters controlling the US political system for their own ends (my interpretation that this isn't your central point is, by the way, what tends me to leave it here rather than ploink it over to CT. If that actually is your view, then it's getting moved).

Having said that though, it's a fair point that quite a lot of the time there's little to choose between US presidential candidates and there are a few reasons for that (note, this isn't anywhere near an exhaustive list, just a few observations):

Firstly the US p[olitical system has never been polarised. At varying times, the major parties have distinguished themselves from their main opposition by being the party of big federal government where DC has the power to tax and spend at an extremely micro-economic level or the party that believes that pretty much all decisions should be made by the states, leaving the United States as more of an autonomous collective with a titular head than anything resembling an actual country as it's usually defined.

These days the Republicans are broadly seen as the party of conservative social policy and laissez-faire economic policy while the Democrats are the flag-bearers for liberal social policy and government-controlled economic policy, coupled with the notion that Republicans lower taxes while Democrats raise them but while it isn't as simplistic as that, it's also not true of the entire gamut of supporters (or elected representatives) of the respective parties.

Not only have far-right and far-left parties never made ground in the US but even moderately left- and right-wing parties (especially the left but they're not alone) haven't had much of a day out when it comes to the polls either - both parties are essentially at the centre for the most part, mopping up most people at the fringes, leaving mostly only the loonies at the edge to support alternatives that will rarely make a breakthrough even at local elections.

Media coverage at the 2004 elections made a bit of hay out of Kerry and Bush being distantly related. While obviously it's not uncommon to have even siblings with totally opposed views on social and economic issues, there was this notion that even after 200 years, control of the country is the preserve of the few, regardless of which side of the political divide they fall on.

I could go on but you get the idea. With the subtle differences between the two parties and often, between two candidates, I'm quite surprised that more people aren't actually prepared to push third or fourth parties, even if they feel that their efforts and votes are "wasted" in the short term. Having said that, with the opportunism of many that are professionally involved in politics, most of those are obviously going to join one of the parties that will bring them to power (at whatever level) in any case.

Is the election fixed? No. Is it a facade? No. Was Sarah Palin specifically proposed by the Republicans or whoever just so that Obama would get elected? That's just silly. Is there a conspiracy behind the whole thing? Not a rational one. but it's fair to say that there often isn't much of a wide-ranging choice in American politics.

mysterious

sceptre wrote: »

Still touch and go, Mickey. Overheal has a good point but I'm still leaving it here for the moment.

OK, I don't accept from the start that Obama's been groomed by a hidden group, I'm working on the assumption that you don't think there are puppet masters controlling the US political system for their own ends (my interpretation that this isn't your central point is, by the way, what tends me to leave it here rather than ploink it over to CT. If that actually is your view, then it's getting moved).

Lmfao at CT. ffs.........:rolleyes:. I love how people see something they are not familar with. Oh that's conspiracy cus it doesn't fit into the norms of their own thinking. Politics in America is controlled. It's controlled by the media. Who own's the media. the elves no. you do the maths.

I'm going for some tea.

Having said that though, it's a fair point that quite a lot of the time there's little to choose between US presidential candidates and there are a few reasons for that (note, this isn't anywhere near an exhaustive list, just a few observations):

Yes there is no choice.
It's like
Brown bread or white bread.
But who has the money? screptre you need to ask these question's. You should look up history of how America was founded and who was in power. You can bet your back's the familes who run in power. have a major influence in the power shifting of today. Power is inherited. Simple fact.

Firstly the US p[olitical system has never been polarised. At varying times, the major parties have distinguished themselves from their main opposition by being the party of big federal government where DC has the power to tax and spend at an extremely micro-economic level or the party that believes that pretty much all decisions should be made by the states, leaving the United States as more of an autonomous collective with a titular head than anything resembling an actual country as it's usually defined.

I dissagree. Everything you see and hear in America is polarised. Blue and red. Can it get anymore obvious. Do you actually pay attention to how divided the nation becomes. Do you see the far right and the far left are the most polarised and dominant media giants in the country. Ironic, of course not:rolleyes: Obama/ bush not polarised of course not

Shall i dig more, Biden/Sarah polarised......
Bill maher - Bill maher bitch fights?
I could go on all day. It's so obvious, I'm shocked to your perception of no polarisation in America :eek:

These days the Republicans are broadly seen as the party of conservative social policy and laissez-faire economic policy while the Democrats are the flag-bearers for liberal social policy and government-controlled economic policy, coupled with the notion that Republicans lower taxes while Democrats raise them but while it isn't as simplistic as that, it's also not true of the entire gamut of supporters (or elected representatives) of the respective parties.

What about the top scale?

Mccain will still persever the interest of his supporters. = money
Obama will still perserve the interest of his supporters = money
Welcome to politics. The one's on top are waving the dollars.

Not only have far-right and far-left parties never made ground in the US but even moderately left- and right-wing parties (especially the left but they're not alone) haven't had much of a day out when it comes to the polls either - both parties are essentially at the centre for the most part, mopping up most people at the fringes, leaving mostly only the loonies at the edge to support alternatives that will rarely make a breakthrough even at local elections.

lmao. Well You don't obviously see how the right and left media work together. Some can spot it, most won't.

Is the election fixed? No. Is it a facade? No. Was Sarah Palin specifically proposed by the Republicans or whoever just so that Obama would get elected? That's just silly. Is there a conspiracy behind the whole thing? Not a rational one. but it's fair to say that there often isn't much of a wide-ranging choice in American politics.

Where is your evidence?????????????? maybe if you actually turned off the box and start dicerning and questioning how scheme of events played out. But that's something people do who are open minded.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

mickeydevine

Obama came under the banner of change, the American people think he's gonna change the world and I have my doubts. Is it a theory, yes. Can I prove it, no. Move this if you want i'm not bothered.

Cheers Mysterious. Of course your right, the media controls who wins an election. Some people can digest any old tripe that's feed to them. Others look for the reason behind it and question everything. Sarah Palin lost McCain the election FACT, I for one dont believe she's that crazy.

Matt Holck

Palin's the only thing that McCain interesting

Black Swan

mickeydevine wrote: »

I can't help but feel the wool has been pulled over our eyes again and he'll be a subtle 'puppet' of the old school, possibly been groomed for years. I hope I'm wrong.

I'm sure that Daddy Bush and Baby Bush are absolutely delighted with the recent Executive Orders signed by Obama, reversing GW Bush's decisions:
(1) Closes Guantanamo (and restores "due process" rights)
(2) Bans torture
(3) Closes secret CIA rendition camps around the world

Not only that, I bet both Daddy and Baby Bush would have voted for Obama instead of McCain if they had known Obama as President would interview with Al Arabiya, the Arabic language channel based in Dubai, UAE, asking for unconditional dialogue to begin between Middle Eastern countries and America.;)

Sources:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/22/guantanamo.order/index.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/ciarendition
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/world/middleeast/28arabiya.html?ref=world

mickeydevine

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

I'm sure that Daddy Bush and Baby Bush are absolutely delighted with the recent Executive Orders signed by Obama, reversing GW Bush's decisions:
(1) Closes Guantanamo (and restores "due process" rights)
(2) Bans torture
(3) Closes secret CIA rendition camps around the world

Not only that, I bet both Daddy and Baby Bush would have voted for Obama instead of McCain if they had known Obama as President would interview with Al Arabiya, the Arabic language channel based in Dubai, UAE, asking for unconditional dialogue to begin between Middle Eastern countries and America.;)

Sources:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/22/guantanamo.order/index.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/ciarendition
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/world/middleeast/28arabiya.html?ref=world

Sarcasim, beautiful. You've totally missed the point though. McCain woulda done all those things too, they had to do it. Americas milked it as much as they can and now need to change world opinion so that if there's more i'll feeling/'terror' attacks nthey can say "But we're good now. We've even got a black president, we're not a bunch of racist, human rights flouting, innocent torturing, war mongering, oil stealing so and so's we used to be. Its so unfair". And if you think rendition and torture is gonna end I disagree, it'll prob be called 'Free flights for our friends' and 'Arab tickling'.

Nodin

mysterious wrote: »

Lmfao at CT. ffs.........:rolleyes:. I love how people see something they are not familar with. Oh that's conspiracy cus it doesn't fit into the norms of their own thinking. Politics in America is controlled. It's controlled by the media. Who own's the media. the elves no. you do the maths.

I don't suppose we could have a less waffle filled version of that, with a few names, dates etc...references to specific events.

Offalycool

I found a thought provoking article on the global "change" we seem to inevitably face. Well worth a read. Change is coming all right....

mickeydevine

Offalycool wrote: »

I found a thought provoking article on the global "change" we seem to inevitably face. Well worth a read. Change is coming all right....

I couldn't have said it better myself. Honestly, I couldn't. I'll see you there Offaly:).

mysterious

Nodin wrote: »

I don't suppose we could have a less waffle filled version of that, with a few names, dates etc...references to specific events.

Why don't you use your brain. There is nothing conspiracy about how the media control's America.

I could tell you all the cooporation's. The news station's. The people. The escapegoats. But it seems you want me to spoonfeed you the obvious.

Look for yourself. It's in plainview.
There is no point in telling people who don't want to see reality for themselves.

Nodin

mysterious wrote: »

Why don't(....)reality for themselves.

I'll pick up the glasses and tinfoil hat later. In the meantime, you might answer the following. You stated

Politics in America is controlled. It's controlled by the media. Who own's the media. the elves no. you do the maths.

What do you mean by "control"?

Who do you think owns the media?

mysterious

Nodin wrote: »

I'll pick up the glasses and tinfoil hat later. In the meantime, you might answer the following. You stated



What do you mean by "control"?

Who do you think owns the media?

I tell you what you need to know

It's sign of the stupidity that many people like you fall into.

People of modern time's. Have forgotten alot. You have lost the ability to answer your own question's.

Genius are people who ask question's and try to find the answer's themselves. Nobody is born one. You become one. You my friend will never know. It's no good telling you. Cus you will just insult yourself and ask me more question's because you are indeed lazy to do your research and find out for yourself.

Look up power and control. How the Elite control's you and how politic's works. It might be a start. I'm giving you this tip. Because I'm just a nice guy.

All the best in your research.

Jim_Are_Great

*is amazed at how long this thread has gone un-locked*

Mysterious; if you say something vague and people question it, it's not because those people are stupid or ignorant or compliant or apathetic. It's because they want to know what you're talking about.

There are smart people in this forum, and you've already insinuated that some of them are stupid. Put some flesh on your argument.

Overheal

He cant, he was banned from Politics and all Subfora for the very issue of not backing up his arguments/claims with source material.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

There was a lot of speculation by the end of the campaign that Palin was not McCain's pick. He was already an outsider in the Republican Party and they supposedly pushed him to choose Palin.

One example: Rush Limbaugh forces McCain to pick Palin? But of course, we may never really know all the reasons why she was picked.

As for the financial meltdown I've been wondering to myself the last while how much of an impact the campaign had on that. I'm not suspecting conspiracy or anything, but just that during that time in the campaign there was a lot of Fear Mongering going on, with McCain/Palin making claims that a vote for Obama is a vote for Terrorism, etc. and with the campaign at the time of Palins nomination rather neck and neck, this would have generated a lot of uncertainty in the futures index. It didnt help that you had 2 very different economists trying to get into power. The economy was already in trouble, but I think the campaign sent it over the edge.

Black Swan

Jim_Are_Great wrote: »

*is amazed at how long this thread has gone un-locked*

Indeed! Rather than address the issues, and support them with citations when their opinions are challenged, they attack the character of the person. This is against the forum charter and has no merit.