no more importing what about second hand sales

Tigger

according to the iaa/iasra statement the govt propeose to stop non retailers from importing airsoft
how will this affect you also how is this going to affect the (in my opinion too unregulated but thats a different matter) second hand market?

gandalf

TBH until the Department publish exactly what they are going to do then we are only going to be speculating. I would say 2nd hand sales shouldn't be effected because the measures are probably being brought in to make Customs/An Post lives easier.

I have no major problems with the proposals as long as they do not bring in clear plastic devices. That would kill airsoft for me.

Necron99

Doesn't say anything about second hand sales within Ireland, I do however have a problem with not being allowed to import them. Have to read up on the EU trade laws. I won't mind signing up to one of the organisations and getting an Airsoft ID card for importing but to ban us outright sounds iffy.

kdouglas

At the moment, private imports would have to be delivered to a licenced retailer,however nothing is set in stone and the doj have asked that both organisations put together a set of proposals on how the licence should be implemented.

Masada

Yeah I agree with the above, (Necron99) i'd like to see importation for individuals kept as it is, even to restrict it to registered members if regulation is needed.

The look of a gun cant kill you and restricting the sport based on what the guns look like is ridiculous. as yet, there have been no regulations on owning or buying kitchen knives yet more people suffer the consequences of kitchen knife misuse on a daily basis than any airsoft device. come to think of it, I cant think of one instance where it has been definitively proven that an airsoft device was present in the act of committing a crime., And thats all before even making the point, that airsoft guns are about as dangerous as ping pong balls.

If we are to give in to these restrictive measures then its only a matter of time before the community will shrink. it is a better solution than to all have clear plastic guns but thats neither here nor there.
i would imagine it would be safe to say, with the size of our community we should have a bit more say than this.
What happens in the case of importing parts then? and rare second hand guns that are hard to come by?

Just my personal opinion, but i think its ridiculous to rob the freedom of choice from the player and force them to buy from any particular shop based on some politician's opinion of a toy gun.
It appears to be yet another example of, "were fuked with this gun culture thats going on, and we cant do nothin to stop it, so we'll pick on these helpless toys" yada yada yada.
Its a sad day for airsoft when we have to accept this sort of measures.,

Chuck the Buck

Hmmmmm....... Interesting, and had a feeling something like this would happen from the IASRA meeting and the comments about banning imports.

So what's a device? A full aeg, or a spring, or a piston, or a receiver, or an outer barrel, or an inner barrel? Where do they draw the line?

So lets all sit back and watch the price of POS Dboys/ACM junk sky rocket in price in the shops. Well its one way to kill the sport......

Tigger

i think that there are 2 ways around this

1 a not for profit retailer/reseller is set up by the/in conjunction with iaa where if i wish to order in i get it mailed to this place prove who i am and have it mailed on to me a sorta airsoft clearing house same for second hand

or the shops do that for us
acually though i was pondering the worth of second hand airsoft exchanges or repairs /customisation


i always buy local first but i also do a lota of custom work and upgrading/experimenting so i buy obsquere stuff

no-one but japan has it

horgan_p

Masada wrote: »

Its a sad day for airsoft when we have to accept this sort of measures.,

as an airsofter i'm not pleased with these measures.
however would it not be a lot worse if the title of the thread was " airsoft banned - now what ??"

Stercus Accidit

In canada airsoft is hugely expensive because of their monopoly,

in the UK it is happening also.


This can not happen here.

The threat of a ban or clear gun is a great way to scare people into accepting a monopoly because "its better than nothing", but its a terrible situation all on its own.

I hope people will read the IAA statement, and their proposal document, and send an e-mail of feedback to them, I have, and have expressed my concerns. If there is a light at the end of the tunnel, it will be the IAA that gets us there.

kdouglas

The main reason for restricting imports is not because of how they look or anything. It is simply because an post,customs and ballistics are spending way too much time testing airsoft kit. Originally the doj suggested absolutely no private importation,this is why we argued the point and the suggestion of having equipment delivered to a licenced retailer instead was made. Again nothing is set in stood and if you have suggestions,as per the original news post,contact the committee directly

zero19

Will this measure affect imports from the EU anyone tell me? or is it simply a ban from importing from asia?

Hivemind187

Just reading over what the lads have said there. It's interesting.

I said it about 6 months ago that we were never going to win, it was only a matter of how big we were willing to lose.

Consider the situation in context. You have a government who is facing the single greatest fiscal crisis in the last 30 years. They have demanded pay cuts in the civil service (which includes customs and An Gardai Siochana) without providing additional staff - this is pushing into strike action territory. You have a minister for Justice who is clearly out of his depth and unable to present a rational or reasoned argument with regard to firearms or organised crime legislation. You have a general public who have not been so terrified of losing their homes, losing their savings or being killed by knife or gun in the city streets thanks to sensationalism from the government, police and the media.

Airsoft is a minor thorn in the side of the authorities and we should be thankful that they didnt decide to take the easy answer and change the muzzle energy from 1joule to 0.2joule. Make no mistake, it would have been that simple to eliminate us.

I am no fan of having my individual liberty to import whatever I so choose from wherever I so choose curbed. It is an affront to me that my government believes that the small minority of individuals who act irresponsibly is justification to restrict any liberty! However, airsoft is a privilege, it was never a right. That is the reallity of our situation and we should always approach our sport from that perspective - i.e. our individual behavior should dictate our individual privilege.

From what I can see there is no indication that equipment being bought or sold between private individuals is to be constrained, only the importation. This suggests that the government wish to stem the proliferation of airsoft equipment (by reducing the number of them entering the country to managable levels) not that they wish to prevent the trade altogether.

The side effect is a reduced pressure on the customs officers to deal with individual cases - which as I have indicated there is a bit of friction in that area. This benefits the government right now which is precisely the reason they have taken this approach.

As for the question of retailers, well, we can only hope that the number of retailers in the Republic remains high enough to ensure strong competition and that the government regulations, once implemented, do not make it unduly difficult for them to trade or for new stores to open. This is simple economics, the greater the competition for customers, the better the deals on offer.

It must be said though that the individual airsofter has a role to play in this as well. While we will no longer be able to import our own equipment as we see fit (the details of what will be permitted and what will not be permitted is a little fuzzy and I intend to quiz the IAA committee and the DoJ in this regard in due course) - we still retain the buying power. Should you feel that one particular retailer is attempting to profiteer or is not providing a fair product fo the price then you no longer have the right to choose a different supplier - you have an obligation to! The only way that a system like this can work is by dint of people voting with their feet and their wallets.

Masada

horgan_p wrote: »

as an airsofter i'm not pleased with these measures.
however would it not be a lot worse if the title of the thread was " airsoft banned - now what ??"

Again, i dont quite get the point here, making them all out illegal isn't really an option for the government, (weather anyone says it is or not). there are simply too many of them in the country as it is and considering they have all been bought legally, mostly within the state, under a law that THE GOVERNMENT put in place. it would be impossible to secure any conviction on a person for any reason other than the misuse of the gun which would be a deserved one anyway, and even under current law this same charge can still stand, banned or not.

kdouglas wrote: »

The main reason for restricting imports is not because of how they look or anything. It is simply because an post,customs and ballistics are spending way too much time testing airsoft kit. Originally the doj suggested absolutely no private importation,this is why we argued the point and the suggestion of having equipment delivered to a licenced retailer instead was made. Again nothing is set in stood and if you have suggestions,as per the original news post,contact the committee directly

This is the bit that i dont get, they are restricting them based on the fact that the customs and An Post, have to get off their ar*e's and actually do what they are paid to do?

I would imagine the amount of revenue that comes from this sport is huge compared to a lot of sports when you consider how long it has been around, surely that alone would justify the extra work that the customs and post service are doing? on each gun alone theres on average a 25% cut for the government, and without airsoft, that would be 25% of nothing.
God help these poor people in there, having to work. next they'll be banning the Christmas cards because of the volume of them coming through in the December month is exceeding what they want to bother doing.
Does anybody else see the irony in them complaining about the work they have to do on something that is paying them a fortune?

hrta

It's not that big a deal, most airsoft site's in the UK will accept importation for individuals, for members of there sites, and they dont add any extra price for this service,
i cant see any of the shops here not doing it for poeple they know.
I can even accept imports at the site for poeple i know and check them to see that they are legal.

NakedDex

Another reason for having them delivered to licensed retailers is assurance of compliance with the law on power. It's very easy for someone, at the moment, to take their chances and have a high powered device delivered to their home address, where they can use it however they want. Whether they do that on purpose or accidentally (I've seen it happen plenty of times), having them delivered to a premises who deal with the devices primarily and who have chronographs available will ensure that any device entering the end-users ownership, is in compliance with all laws.

I'm not entirely stoked about the idea of losing my freedom to spot something online at random, order it and have it delivered next day either. It does interest me to know what limits there is on this, for example, if I want a stock or a receiver from HK, must I order through a shop or can I still get that online since it's just an accessory/part.
I'd also be interested to know where the importation border lies. Is it European or Irish? Can I order something from the UK since they have the same laws as us (more or less) with regard to power?

What does please me with this, though, is that it means any device I see on a field chronoing significantly over the limit can no longer be blamed on a mistake when ordering or other poor excuse which attempts to transfer blame to the retailer or manufacturer to explain the M120 spring sitting in the gearbox.

Masada

NakedDex wrote: »

Another reason for having them delivered to licensed retailers is assurance of compliance with the law on power. It's very easy for someone, at the moment, to take their chances and have a high powered device delivered to their home address, where they can use it however they want. Whether they do that on purpose or accidentally (I've seen it happen plenty of times), having them delivered to a premises who deal with the devices primarily and who have chronographs available will ensure that any device entering the end-users ownership, is in compliance with all laws.

Key thing there though dex, they don't give a sh*t about the power of the guns. Its obvious in the press release that their motivation for these new measures is based only on the appearance of the equipment. nowhere have they mentioned any issue with the power of them. Even in times when airsoft has been in the spotlight, the media's focus was always on the appearance of them and to associate them with armed and dangerous criminals.
If only the criminals would use airsoft guns, the street would be a much safer place.

kdouglas

Masada wrote: »

Again, i dont quite get the point here, making them all out illegal isn't really an option for the government, (weather anyone says it is or not)

Unfortunately it is very much an option, it would be all to easy for the doj to make all their airsoft related problems go away over night by banning it. Anyone caught with one would have it destroyed. Any coming into the country would also be destroyed.

This is the bit that i dont get, they are restricting them based on the fact that the customs and An Post, have to get off their ar*e's and actually do what they are paid to do?
I would imagine the amount of revenue that comes from this sport is huge compared to a lot of sports when you consider how long it has been around, surely that alone would justify the extra work that the customs and post service are doing? on each gun alone theres on average a 25% cut for the government, and without airsoft, that would be 25% of nothing.
God help these poor people in there, having to work. next they'll be banning the Christmas cards because of the volume of them coming through in the December month is exceeding what they want to bother doing.
Does anybody else see the irony in them complaining about the work they have to do on something that is paying them a fortune?

From the an post/customs side of things, airsoft is alot more work than possibly any other type of item coming in and is a tiny percentage of the revenue stream by comparison.

I personally import alot of my own equipment, normally because its stuff that isn't available in Ireland, and I don't like the idea of a ban on personal import, but if I can have stuff delivered to a local retailer instead then at least thats better than not being able to import at all.

NakedDex

They do care about the power, otherwise there'd be no limit set in legislation. The motivation for this bill, however, may not be for power reasons but if it cuts down on the number of instances of hot guns on skirmish sites, then it's a nice, positive outcome (albeit not the main intended one). I like the idea of anything that will make hot devices harder to obtain and ensure those who do use them intentionally are found out faster.

Masada

But who can actually say that definitively though? How do we know that airsoft is only a tiny percentage of the revenue? and again we are skipping the issue, that these people are paid to do the work they are doing.

This law will be a restriction on what exactly? preventing airsoft guns ending up in the wrong hands? yet in 2 years of being legal there have been no major incidences where and airsoft gun has been used as a weapon. I think this goes against a defense we have all lived by in the last 2 years, "The perpetrator is responsible for his own actions, not the implement he chooses to use" and i think by sitting back and looking on the bright side we are only opening ourselves to even further restriction in the future.


Of course, it would be great if we could just have stuff sent in to your local airsoft retailer, but who's to say that they are not going to charge a premium on this service? I doubt very much there will be anything in law stating that the retailer has to get stuff in for you at an acceptable price and we have only the good will of the retailer to rely on.

Stercus Accidit

Masada wrote: »

But who can actually say that definitively though? How do we know that airsoft is only a tiny percentage of the revenue? and again we are skipping the issue, that these people are paid to do the work they are doing.

This law will be a restriction on what exactly? preventing airsoft guns ending up in the wrong hands? yet in 2 years of being legal there have been no major incidences where and airsoft gun has been used as a weapon. I think this goes against a defense we have all lived by in the last 2 years, "The perpetrator is responsible for his own actions, not the implement he chooses to use" and i think by sitting back and looking on the bright side we are only opening ourselves to even further restriction in the future.


Of course, it would be great if we could just have stuff sent in to your local airsoft retailer, but who's to say that they are not going to charge a premium on this service? I doubt very much there will be anything in law stating that the retailer has to get stuff in for you at an acceptable price and we have only the good will of the retailer to rely on.

big +1

heyjay14

I personnaly dont have a problem with the government putting a ban on importing airsoft guns because it wont affect me, i find it much handyer to walk down to my local airsoft shop which is go-tactical and just buy the stuff there and then, even if it does work out abit more expensive its still alot easyer in my opionion to do so....

Masada

NakedDex wrote: »

They do care about the power, otherwise there'd be no limit set in legislation. The motivation for this bill, however, may not be for power reasons but if it cuts down on the number of instances of hot guns on skirmish sites, then it's a nice, positive outcome (albeit not the main intended one). I like the idea of anything that will make hot devices harder to obtain and ensure those who do use them intentionally are found out faster.

My point if i rephrase it is,
They dont have any issues currently with the power limit. as has been pointed out in the past, airsoft is here by accident and the power limit was never chosen in order to suit airsoft. I haven't heard of any issues the DOJ have brought up regarding the power of the guns and the new legislation will have no bearing on the power limits at all, it has always been the case that a gun should be under the 1J limit to import it here anyway.

I understand the upside would be having somebody to point the finger at, but is that not correcting a problem that isn't really present at the moment?

Yes, there are hot guns out there, but i wouldn't assume those are the ones that have been imported into the country as is, when we know there are people getting their guns upgraded intentionally.

Stercus Accidit

Its hassle enough for me to get to my nearest airsoft retailer, and I live in Dublin.

What about the poor fecker down the country no-where near the retailer?

What sense does it make not to send it to their address in the first place? There will be the same volume of packages going through customs, and a lot more hassle to the retailer.

The only thing this does is add hassle and work for a retailer, and not reduce the volume of imports, whats the logic behind that?

NakedDex

True, they are paid to do it. But then again, it's a delay that we can avoid. Before your imported device gets to you, it hit's port/airport authorities, goods in, checking, customs, goods out, gets transported to a sorting office, sorted, packed for delivery to the depot, arrives at the depot, gets sorted again, awaits a dispatch and only then is it on it's way to you. That's if you're unlucky enough to get have your device pulled into ballistics, which is a black hole for most airsoft goods.
Surely cutting out some of that hassle, not to mention the grief of having to hand over a wad to the delivery guy for your nasty customs and delivery charges and being able to have a place to bring the device back to should something be wrong is a good thing?

I'm not trying to be super supportive and flag waving for this idea, I'm no more pleased about the restriction than any other airsofter. I am, however, seeing a logic in it in certain areas and seeing some benefits. I still want certain things cleared up, like what exactly we can and cannot import in the line of parts, and where the device has to come from to constitute an import (with the UK so close and having such close laws).

Masada

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

What sense does it make not to send it to their address in the first place? There will be the same volume of packages going through customs, and a lot more hassle to the retailer.

The only thing this does is add hassle and work for a retailer, and not reduce the volume of imports, whats the logic behind that?

I agree completely.
The same volume will be passing through, the only difference is, they, the customs and postal service, will see it as an opportunity to be more laxidaisy if they are sending everything to the same retailers.

Hivemind187

Masada wrote: »

But who can actually say that definitively though? How do we know that airsoft is only a tiny percentage of the revenue? and again we are skipping the issue, that these people are paid to do the work they are doing.

While I agree with you their unions dont and if there is one place that is over-unionised its the civil service.

At the moment the government is trying to get a 10% wage decrease pushed through which is of course being resisted heavily by the unions. The customs houses (amongst other areas of the civil service) is notoriously short staffed and as it goes, there is no "airsoft specific training".

Yes: It is their own bloody fault that they have no training since attempts were made to offer it to them during my tenure.

Yes: they are paid to do a job and if they arent happy they should bog off to the dole queue with me.

Unfortunately they have a rather powerful union which wants more staff, better conditions, more training and more money - the polar opposite of what the government wants. This means that the unions will be making hints and posturing with threats of strike, which is something the government can not afford either since it would mean serverely damaging the economy (nothing going in or out would mean no lovely shiney MASADAS either ).

So, airsoft gets used as a bargaining chip. The DoJ says it will reduce the number of these things coming into the country and make it very simple for the customs folk - either its going to a registered retailer or its going in the bin. This lets them say that they are trying to do what they can to reduce the workload on the poor, precious shoulders of the customs workers.

It sucks but thats the logic.

Masada wrote: »

This law will be a restriction on what exactly? preventing airsoft guns ending up in the wrong hands? yet in 2 years of being legal there have been no major incidences where and airsoft gun has been used as a weapon. I think this goes against a defense we have all lived by in the last 2 years, "The perpetrator is responsible for his own actions, not the implement he chooses to use" and i think by sitting back and looking on the bright side we are only opening ourselves to even further restriction in the future.

Well, I see what you are saying but I think its a little pessimistic.

Were we to be banned out right the formula would be look like this;

Legislation is brought in.
Legal cases are brought against the government
Injunctions on the legislation are applied for
Judges either grant the injunction which means that there is a pause while a case takes place or he refuses which leads to the next point
A short amnesty is decalred - hand over your kit before X date after which its possession becomes illegal.
Possession becomes illegal.
Airsoft ceases to exist in a legal manner.

Luckily this isnt happening. The restrictions are unwelcome for the most part since they infringe on individual liberty (and its something I am personally unhappy with) but it means the comunity is still here - and that means there are still people who can make the effort and change the way things are done, find a way to work the system rather than simply give up and say "well that was fun while it lasted ... fancy taking up badger baiting?"

I'm not going to defend the restriction on its own merit. I think it's overstepping mark with regard to what was needed. I agree that the defence we have put forward is valid and that this restriction appears to fly in the face of the principal of "innocent until proven guilty" - however, we are a persecuted sport, in both the media and the public mind. We represent a fear to them, nothing so tangible as a threat but something that conjures an emotional reaction. We have to accept that it is this fear in the public mind that has led to this restriction and it is this specific issue that we need to work on in order to see progressive change in the future.

Masada wrote: »

Of course, it would be great if we could just have stuff sent in to your local airsoft retailer, but who's to say that they are not going to charge a premium on this service? I doubt very much there will be anything in law stating that the retailer has to get stuff in for you at an acceptable price and we have only the good will of the retailer to rely on.

No, you are right. There wouldnt be anything in law to say that a retailer must not charge a premium for the service - indeed it is likely that some retailers will attempt to charge a fee for being the point of import. If this is the case however that retailer can be assured that they will no longer have my business and I would actively encourage others to do the same.

Under the circumstances it would be worth speaking to a retailer and having them import the device on your behalf, quoting you beforehand the price which you would pay in advance. Once the item is received, the retailer will be unable to claim additional payment from you since the transaction has already taken place.

This would protect both the purchaser and retailer from the two biggest threats.

Purchaser: Being told one price then hit up for extra charges on import.

Retailer: People ordering items but then changing their minds and refusing to buy.

No, its not ideal and yes it is an encroachment onto our individual liberty - but it is better than nothing no? We can still work for progressive change no?

Masada

Although you have a valid point dex,
I dont see how the system will get any faster,. if they are doing their jobs as they are supposed to, then every item will have to be checked in the same manor as it would if it were to be imported privately.

Its not only the issue of not being able to import privately i would take issue with, its the fact that were are a step closer to even further restrictions. Having all this equipment going through the same lines means the government/customs can be a lot more pickey about what they want to allow into the country, be it legal or not and weather we like it or not, they can take stuff make it disappear and we never hear about it again. many airsofters have had similar issues from anything like tornado grenades to assault vests / BBs/ BB shower granades etc etc. there is no article in law declaring these items as illegal, yet they are still stopped and in some cases never heard from again.

NakedDex wrote: »

True, they are paid to do it. But then again, it's a delay that we can avoid. Before your imported device gets to you, it hit's port/airport authorities, goods in, checking, customs, goods out, gets transported to a sorting office, sorted, packed for delivery to the depot, arrives at the depot, gets sorted again, awaits a dispatch and only then is it on it's way to you. That's if you're unlucky enough to get have your device pulled into ballistics, which is a black hole for most airsoft goods.
Surely cutting out some of that hassle, not to mention the grief of having to hand over a wad to the delivery guy for your nasty customs and delivery charges and being able to have a place to bring the device back to should something be wrong is a good thing?

I'm not trying to be super supportive and flag waving for this idea, I'm no more pleased about the restriction than any other airsofter. I am, however, seeing a logic in it in certain areas and seeing some benefits. I still want certain things cleared up, like what exactly we can and cannot import in the line of parts, and where the device has to come from to constitute an import (with the UK so close and having such close laws).

iceage

We all knew this was coming, lets be thankful it wasn't banned outright. I'm sure there will be responses from the affiliated Retailers forthcomming, lets see what both the IAA and said Retailers have in mind.

And as someone already mentioned this is not written in stone... yet.

fayer

iceage wrote: »

lets be thankful it wasn't banned outright.

Thanks IceAge, that is the most important point.

If you read the statement, an outright ban was not far off, clear plastic Airsoft devices was what was coming in.

Just for some context.....

(And people thought Tan was bad)









I did try find a clear Masada but they dont make them Rich, sorry :P

weeder

make it stop

Masada

Here!, theres nothing wrong with tan, infact, i support the motion to have all Airsoft devices availible ONLY in tan....

Hivemind187

Masada wrote: »

Here!, theres nothing wrong with tan, infact, i support the motion to have all Airsoft devices availible ONLY in tan....

You just crossed a line buddy ...

iceage

The horror.......;)

Shiva

Masada wrote: »

Here!, theres nothing wrong with tan, infact, i support the motion to have all Airsoft devices availible ONLY in tan....

If Vietnam is so flippin' great, what the hell are you doing spending all your time online ?

Like I keep saying....you're a bleedin' nerd :-p

Masada

bwhhaha!

Its 5am here man, and im still on irish time., everyone else is asleep.:D

NakedDex

That's how WoW started...

Lemming

I'd like to raise a question which hasn't been mentioned yet. And I can see this being a problem with an over-zealous jobsworth at an airport or ferry port.

You leave the country for an event with your kit. You return to the country. Customs insist that you are "importing". Technically you are although it's already been inside the country already.

Where does the government stand on this? I suspect I have my answer already and it's not a very flattering one and involves words like incompetency, half-baked, and poorily-thought-out-cynical-exercise-in-PR-windowdressing.

Also, as has been raised already; ordering from retailers within the EU. What happens there? I order something from Fire-Support. What happens there? Do I need to instruct FS to have it delivered to a retailer? How on gods green earth is that particularly outstandingly "well" thought out piece of proposed legislation going to reduce the work of customs as has been suggested as a motive.

All in all, I'm thankful that there was no ban or clear plastics (anyone in the DOJ ever heard of spray paint?), but I am very concerned about the implications of this current proposal that is the clearly the height of towering intellectual design.

fayer

Lemming wrote: »

I'd like to raise a question which hasn't been mentioned yet. And I can see this being a problem with an over-zealous jobsworth at an airport or ferry port.

You leave the country for an event with your kit. You return to the country. Customs insist that you are "importing". Technically you are although it's already been inside the country already.

Where does the government stand on this? I suspect I have my answer already and it's not a very flattering one and involves words like incompetency, half-baked, and poorily-thought-out-cynical-exercise-in-PR-windowdressing.

Also, as has been raised already; ordering from retailers within the EU. What happens there? I order something from Fire-Support. What happens there? Do I need to instruct FS to have it delivered to a retailer? How on gods green earth is that particularly outstandingly "well" thought out piece of proposed legislation going to reduce the work of customs as has been suggested as a motive.

All in all, I'm thankful that there was no ban or clear plastics (anyone in the DOJ ever heard of spray paint?), but I am very concerned about the implications of this current proposal that is the clearly the height of towering intellectual design.

This is a remedy for the issues of items passing through customs and the postal service. Their is no issue with personal transport in and out of the country.

ravey

Of course there will be extra charges, When did any sport get cheaper as it got more popular?
Of course we dislike the thoughts of being limited to what and where we can purchase our equipment.
But Hey, we are at the table! They recognise Airsoft. Talks are ongoing!

And whats more, we have our sport, indeed something we didnt have when I was 18 (and thats not today or yesterday)

And...BIG AND..... Youll never make friends slaggin off any section of the civil service. We know the story but if we go there, it gets all political and nasty. Im sure there are forums for that stuff.
Everything is progress from here on, they will continue talking to us at the very least. 'Hard to shoot a guy when hes chattin to ya real friendly like'

I see people not banned.:)
Good move and Keep it lit I say.

heyjay14

ravey wrote: »

Of course there will be extra charges, When did any sport get cheaper as it got more popular?
Of course we dislike the thoughts of being limited to what and where we can purchase our equipment.
But Hey, we are at the table! They recognise Airsoft. Talks are ongoing!

And whats more, we have our sport, indeed something we didnt have when I was 18 (and thats not today or yesterday)

And...BIG AND..... Youll never make friends slaggin off any section of the civil service. We know the story but if we go there, it gets all political and nasty. Im sure there are forums for that stuff.
Everything is progress from here on, they will continue talking to us at the very least. 'Hard to shoot a guy when hes chattin to ya real friendly like'

I see people not banned.:)
Good move and Keep it lit I say.

+1

OzCam

Well that rules out emigrating to Canada. Pity, they're so civilised in other ways...

sci-ops

Am I happy with the proposed moves.....not really, but I'm not surprised.

Personally, I agree that there has to be some kind of restriction put in place.....I would have preferred it to have been a requirement to be registered with either the IAA or IASRA rather than an outright ban on personal importation. I would also prefer that you need to be 18+ to purchase an airsoft device, but that's my own personal pet hate.

In terms of retailers providing an ordering service, I can only see a charge being placed, albeit a minor one (I hope). As has been said, it retailers look to take advantage of the situation.....let your wallet do the talking.

It will be interesting to see what restrictions are put in place on importation....will we still be able to order all of our bdu's, goggles, vests etc from good auld ebay or is it a case of going to the local retailer?

Lemming

ravey wrote: »

And...BIG AND..... Youll never make friends slaggin off any section of the civil service. We know the story but if we go there, it gets all political and nasty. Im sure there are forums for that stuff.

Whilst yes I would agree that everything is progress I would also point out that it is possible to utterly and savagely slate an idea without slagging off the person with the idea.

Personally I think the legislation is window-dressing concocted in a very out of touch manner by somebody who didn't really take the time to figure out what was what. The motives suggested for it are either and/or suspect and deeply, deeply flawed to the point of making very little difference to their intended desire (in this particular case easing the workload on customs staff & ballistics).

Anyway, it's not final yet so come what may.

heyjay14

sci-ops wrote: »

Am I happy with the proposed moves.....not really, but I'm not surprised.

Personally, I agree that there has to be some kind of restriction put in place.....I would have preferred it to have been a requirement to be registered with either the IAA or IASRA rather than an outright ban on personal importation. I would also prefer that you need to be 18+ to purchase an airsoft device, but that's my own personal pet hate.

In terms of retailers providing an ordering service, I can only see a charge being placed, albeit a minor one (I hope). As has been said, it retailers look to take advantage of the situation.....let your wallet do the talking.

It will be interesting to see what restrictions are put in place on importation....will we still be able to order all of our bdu's, goggles, vests etc from good auld ebay or is it a case of going to the local retailer?

At the moment u do have to be 18 to purchase an airsoft device, but u can be 16 with parental consent.:)

Masada

heyjay14 wrote: »

At the moment u do have to be 18 to purchase an airsoft device, but u can be 16 with parental consent.:)

Thats no true,
its up to the responsible retailers to sell only to over 18's., as irresponsible as it would be, its perfectly legal to sell to a 5 year old,..,

heyjay14

Masada wrote: »

Thats no true,
its up to the responsible retailers to sell only to over 18's., as irresponsible as it would be, its perfectly legal to sell to a 5 year old,..,

My bad, disregard what i said in my previous post.....

fayer

heyjay14 wrote: »

At the moment u do have to be 18 to purchase an airsoft device, but u can be 16 with parental consent.:)

Legally you don't, you can be 2 and buy Airsoft kit. IAA affiliates are bound by a code of conduct that covers age limits, but its not in Irish law.

The idea of membership was put forward here and in the past but from a governmental point of view they cannot put a body on a statutory footing without major investment, legislative changes and oversight. Still wont get past the issue of customs having to stop imports on a constant basis, and removing Airsoft kit from non dedicated retailers.

As it stands, your right of ownership, the appearance and use of the kit remains untouched, and will be solidified in that respect. We can still buy the stuff, we can still collect it, we can still plink with it, we can still skirmish with it, I would call that a success.

Miscreant

Thought I would throw my hat in the ring here. I am no fan of having my devices delivered to a retailer but something that no-one seems to have noticed or commented on is that most web retailers will not send an item to an address other than that of the Credit Card holder or the Paypal address (which usually has to be the Credit Card address). In light of this we will have to order our devices THROUGH local retailers and pay them to import our devices for us.

This situation will leave us at the mercy of local retailers. I am sure there are plenty of honest retailers who will order the item for you and charge you a small amount for the privilege. I do not have a problem with this as long as the charge is reasonable, however as it will be a closed market how long will it be before the charge gets hiked because of extra "costs" or such like.

I think that other than "There will be no change to Airsoft in Ireland" this is probably the best outcome we could have expected. Airsoft has been under scrutiny and attack since it came into the public eye and if this helps to curb some of the hysteria then so be it. I am giving my suport to the IAA on this one and would like to say well done to the Committee and thank them for their professionalism and candor in these matters.

Thanks Lads!

Rhinocharge

Masada wrote: »

Thats no true,
its up to the responsible retailers to sell only to over 18's., as irresponsible as it would be, its perfectly legal to sell to a 5 year old,..,

You forgot unscrupulous.

TheDoc

Just some words from myself,speaking as an airsofter and a player.

First off the bat. I see alot of " you just get your kit delivered to a retailer in ireland" being bantered around. Now I'm just an employee, not the boss, but I think there would be serious problems and concerns here. Theres alot to deal with here. Having to make space to hold an incredible amount of imports. Are retailers suppose to accomodate space, for items nothing to do with them, from their pockets? I do not think so.

How do we know whats being delivered? Granted, I imagine, a retailer will not be allowed open a persons package, but what if they are importing hot guns? What if they arnt important guns at all, other illegal substances etc. I do not think any retailer would allow people to have kit delivered if it wasnt checked upon arrival, this involves opening the individuals parcel. Are retailers responsible for its safe keeping ?

I do not think its feasible, and do not see it happening. And from my own personal point of view, why should I care aobut your kit? You do not pay me, my boss does, why should I have concerns over the safety etc of your parcel, burden that responsabiltiy, when its not in my job description, its not my responsability. But the main point to take from this is, I doubt it is going to happen, from my own experience, when deliveries arrive to store, the stockroom gets full to the brim then spills onto the floor...where are we going to allocate space for parcels.

A second point I'd like to make. Nearly every retailer in the country I would imagine, can deal directly with the likes of WGC, Redwolf airsoft, Gunner airsoft,RSOV and others. Where most of you buy your online kit. Granted this measure only puts enforcement on the purchase of complete AEG airsoft devices. What happens when you buy from an irish retailer?
You are greated with friendly face to face service.
You can receive informative and educated information regarding guns quality and specifications on the spot.
You receive your item instantly ( should it be in stock)
You can inspect your item before purcashe to make sure you are comfortable with it.
YOU GET A WARRANTY THAT YOU CAN REDEEM INSTANTLY!!!!

How many of you have had problems with abroad retailers, to find it absolute epic effort to have it rectified, I know I have. Its more hassle free to actually deal through your local irish agent. And granted most retailers deal with nearly all of the main airsoft manafacturers and wholsesalers, there is not really a problem in ordering items. I know I already do it. Someone wants an obscure piece, we search for it , we find it, let them know the price, they give then go ahead and they get their kit.

Also, I think a fear of inflated prices is neglegable. I had a customer come in over the weekend who bought a JG AUG A1 from abroad, for €210 delivered. They retail at €140. Ive taken my time to actually go research foreign prices, and nearly all clones and most high ends, come in mroe expensive then your local retailer. FACT. The only exception to this is certain niche items.

And the funny thing is, ordering through your local retailer, you probably will pay the same if not less then if you did it on your own. Airsoft retailers all get wholesale prices etc. Granted its not huge for individual items, it is enough to ensure prices arnt over inflated.

So as stated by Hive, airsoft is a privalage, and again, thanks to sterling work from the IAA and IASRA, airsoft is safe for a while longer.

What I find amusing, is probably 80% of the people who will come on here in the coming days shouting and scremaing" aw for **** sake tkaing away my right to import blah blah blah" Are the people who more then likely do not own an obscure gun that could only be bought online , that couldnt be sourced by an irish retailer. They more then likely bougt a gun online thinking it was cheaper, got ****ed by delivery and VAt, and paid OTT for a gun cheaper here.

And even obscure items, I'd debate as to wether you can or can not get them through an irish retailer.

The most important and expensive parts of my new Vietnam loadout, where acquired through an irish retailer.

And like that, the other bits and bobs ( mag pouches etc) I'm free to import into the country. Hassle free.

The only problem I have, is the definition of an airsoft device to them as to what cannot be imported. If I order a body kit, that is basically the outer portion of an AEG but no gearbox, do they make a ****up and send it off.

What about grenades?

I'm sure it will all be fledged out in time

But one thing is for sure, consider yourselves lucky will you , IT COULD HAVE BEEN SEE THROUGH PLASTIC GUNS.

[Edited - Not very clever doc - Gandalf - Infracted][ Agreed - aggro night - DOC]

And to also make the point, Airsoft is a ****ing tincy wincy proportion of traffic that goes through the customs hands. I have the privalage of knowing what happens with An post customs. And when an item is seen to be obscure, theres a serious amount of work. IF, the whole system is being bogged down, by having to stop the whole shabang, to have someone come in, remove what is thought to be a gun but is infact a toy, it is a needless slowdown of the working machine, and a serious hit to the efficeny of the working machine. And in the current climate the main priority should be saving jobs, employment, yet maximising efficeny when major budget cuts are coming. If removing airsoft, which again, is a ****ing tiny portion of the traffic moving through daily, solves the efficeny problem and allows the system move more flowingly. They only have one choice.

BornToKill

Masada wrote: »

Its obvious in the press release that their motivation for these new measures is based only on the appearance of the equipment. nowhere have they mentioned any issue with the power of them

I don't think there is any press release. Don't see one on www.justice.ie anyway. There is a joint statement from the point of view of the IAA and the IASRA.