Did you vote for Fianna Fail and if so why

Zionist · 27-01-2009 9:33pm #1

I am curious to see the opinions of people here who have voted for Fianna Fail and why ?

I myself cannot understand why people would vote for such a corrupt & incompetent party but it is a democracy so we are allegedly all entitled to our opinions!!

Permabear · 27-01-2009 9:41pm

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Zionist · 27-01-2009 9:49pm

The days of Bertie and Charlie McCreevy IMHO were a mere farce, the Celtic Tiger we all spoke about was the Plastic Tiger.

As there was no real money it was all debit and the previous FF governments lets the housing market amongst other things spiral out of control with no limits or restrictions, now tell me thats not incompetent ?

Permabear · 27-01-2009 9:52pm

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OhNoYouDidn't · 27-01-2009 10:03pm

Come on out of that. There has been a sniff of rodent around FF since the 50's. Corruption within the government had been laid bare long before the last election.

Every expert was predicting a house price collapse and a global economic downturn, the credit crunch just accelerated it.

There is no hindsight about it. We were well warned what these incompetent buffons and their ideological (and now officially a failed one) crank sidekicks in the PD's were heading us towords.

If you voted FF you are a fool and its been laid bare for all to see.

humberklog · 27-01-2009 10:08pm

Far too easy to blame an incompitent gov. for driving our economy onto the rocks in stormy seas. However during the last election the opposition made themselves look un-electable and indeed that's how they were repaid. The last election was for the taking but the opposition parties couldn't do it. Now that is incompitence in a sea of their own making.

(PS I voted No.1 Finian Magrath, No.2 Sean HaugheyFF, No.3 Richard Bruton(FG).
FF No.2 because it was the highest I could score him after entering a pact to give No.1 to an independent. I would have given S. Haughey No.1 because he is an excellent local politician.

DARKIZE · 27-01-2009 10:15pm

I spread my vote in the last election among FG, Labour and Greens, for no other reason than that FF have been in power too long, become too complacent, and too in thrall to the "social partners". I always thought that the electorate and taxpayers were supposed to be the social partners, not a select gathering of unions, big employers reps, and sundry niche special interests. But people get the government they deserve, and until Ireland stops electing their TDs because they got a parking fine quashed, or got them a medical card, or got ramps on the road, or (God forbid) eased through a planning application, we'll always lack the genuine strategic leadership and vision that could bring the country forward.

Hagar · 27-01-2009 10:21pm

"At this moment in time" politician speak for "now".
"Social Partner" FF speak for rapee.

That's why I have never voted FF.

deadhead13 · 27-01-2009 10:37pm

No I didn't. But is FG really a better alternative - I don't think so.

PixelTrawler · 27-01-2009 10:39pm

I admit I did, purely out of fear that the other side would be even worse.
Now I dont think its possible, and I think i'll give it to to someone else...

A change is badly needed...

Permabear · 27-01-2009 10:54pm

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humberklog · 27-01-2009 10:58pm

And whatever about FG (who in fairness pulled in their rural votes). What of a government with a big slice of Labour being led by the intolerable Easter Bunny being shunted along with Joan "on message" Burton in tow? Good grief.

Het-Field · 27-01-2009 11:32pm

I am a resident in Dublin South West. It is easily the most uncompetitive constituency in Dublin.

Like Donegal Fella, I voted for FF based on my support for the PDs. I had been very active in the party for 15 months prior to the election, and busted my gut for the party for another 15 months after the election. I was privy to the fact that Mary Harney was the only safe seat, and that we were only in the running for four in total, we were guaranteed to lose four, and our five member of the Seanad had no chance of election. I was hopeful that a minority government could have been formed with 4 PD TDs and Fianna Fail, as I felt there was no chance of my party being in government with the rainbow coalition, so I was snookered unless I wished to vote for Sinn Fein, the Socialist Party Candidate, or the Father's Rights and Responsibility Guy.

Unfortunatly, my gamble didnt pay off, and we lost two of the four seats which we had any claim over, and the second of those was Grealish's, which would have been the one I would like to have seen go before anybody else.

The PDs had been nullified in the economic sphere for several years. The Stamp Duty issue was the prime example. Uner McCreevy, that would never have occured. Cowan was so Party Political, that he didnt want to give tha success to the PDs.

I regret voting FF now. I would never have voted for them if I felt it would mean an Increase in VAT and Income and Carbon Tax, Nationalisation/Recapitalisation/Guarantees of Banks, and savage cutbacks on the old, the young, and the handicapped. I was of the impression that Bertie would lead the country for another few years, and while I was of the belief that he had dirty hands, I had no idea that it would get so bad. I never felt Cowan would get the opportunity as quickly as he did. He has showed no level of leadership, and mistakenly selected his cabinet.

I take my responsibiliy. I voted for them, and did so for party political reasons. I apologise

Pride Fighter · 27-01-2009 11:43pm

Can I ask you if you are going to go for FG now?? A lot of people I know of who are ex PD's are going for that option over FF.

Permabear · 27-01-2009 11:50pm

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Húrin · 27-01-2009 11:55pm

Hardly. Everyone who has not been voting for FF has known this. I recall reading an article by Garret Fitzgerald about the illusory nature of the celtic tiger back in May 2007. It's not as if nobody knew that debt was at unsustainable levels.

In fairness we cannot know how the opposition would have done in govt. I don't know why people pretend to be so certain that FG + Labour would have been that bad.

I'd rather have Richard Bruton managing finance now than Lenihan and Cowen. I don't care much that Kenny lacks dark hair and charisma.

thebigcheese22 · 28-01-2009 12:04am

I presume you mean economically liberal?

Hasn't that whole idealogy got a tad disproven recently?! :rolleyes:

Permabear · 28-01-2009 12:08am

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thebigcheese22 · 28-01-2009 12:10am

HA! What are you on??:eek:
This government is a lot of things but it is most certainly not left-wing

Permabear · 28-01-2009 12:20am

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thebigcheese22 · 28-01-2009 12:30am

Low tax (lowest corporation tax in EU), scandalous withdrawal of vital services e.g. medical cards and education cutbacks, reintroduction of third level fees, privatisation of our health service, etc etc

Your probably gonna say that the nationalisation of a bank is a left wing move but if they were left wing they would have nationalised it if it was making money, not to bail out property developers, its sickening

Permabear · 28-01-2009 12:44am

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thebigcheese22 · 28-01-2009 12:54am

Its 41 % income tax, and compared to some countries is pretty low. Tbh I'd rather pay more taxes and have a proper health or education system, which leads me onto...

[/QUOTE]mean the vote-buying medical cards that the very same "right-wing" party introduced in 2002?[/QUOTE?
We should have free healthcare for EVERYONE, not just OAPs. At the time we were rolling in money and could easily have afforded it.

[/QUOTE]Whose abolition was originally floated by the Fianna Fáil right-winger Seamus Brennan? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE}
Well it wasn't introduced by Fianna Fail! It took the backbone of Labour to carry it through, and would never have been implemented by the linear-thinking idiots in FF.

[/QUOTE]Of course nationalizing the banks is a left-wing move. How could it possibly be otherwise?[/QUOTE]

Its not for the sake of helping the people by making credit more easily available to people, its to bail out the fat cats like Sean FitzPatrick. It might look like a left wing move, but the thinking behind it is far from it. Look at Bush taking over AIG and half of the other financial institutions in the US.

monosharp · 28-01-2009 12:55am

Perhaps he meant the low corporation tax, not your tax.

For the reasons mentioned.

A state controlled bank would not have gotten itself into the predicament they all now face in the first place and bailing out a private bank to save your mates, the property developers is not left at all.

Donegalfella, honestly, you sound like you would vote for FF again because you feel they are still the best of a bad lot, is that true ?

If it is I am glad I left the country and have no intention of ever returning except for holidays. Ireland, the politically and economically corrupt cesspool of the world.

ArmaniJeanss · 28-01-2009 1:05am

Voted PD in Dublin West but as their representative had no chance of being elected my 2nd choice onwards was my real vote - and that was for FF.

In the next election I am 80% sure that I will still vote for FF - the only thing that might sway it to a FG vote would be if a) FG looked as if they could get an overall majority or b) FG gave a cast-iron guarantee that they would not go into coalition with the Labour Party.

Arguably a FF/FG coalition would be the best result, followed by a proper merger of the two. Meanwhile Labour and the various Socialist Parties could merge. And then we'd have the ideal two party system, one centre left, one centre right (FF/FG obviously)

Permabear · 28-01-2009 1:11am

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deadhead13 · 28-01-2009 1:12am

+1. And we would finally be rid of civil war politics.

Het-Field · 28-01-2009 1:29am

Unlikely. I am remaining as a Independent, at least until after the Local and European Elections. I was originally in Fianna Fail, and I would see them as the most likely destination for me in the future. However, as things stand, its unlikely that I will go back for some time.

The only reason I can see for changing my vote would be to ensure that somebody new audits the books, and attempts to redress any negative actions which have been taken. And as things stand, it is a fairly compelling reason.

If the Government lasts until 2012, Fianna Fail will have been in power for 18 of those years. Like the Conservative Party in the UK, and the Republican Party in the US, people eventually decide that a change is in order. Fianna Fail are running out of coalition partners, and Labour and Fianna Fail will not work well together. I believe that there will be a full change of government in 3 years.

SeanW · 28-01-2009 1:42am

Eh ... I saw this back as far as the early 2000s during the real "Celtic Tiger" when Charlie McCreepy was cutting taxes during boom time, in "pro cyclic" policies that encouraged inflation (which went over 7% on his watch) and left the public finances unable to withstand any shock (sound familiar)? He could have set up a proper savings systerm for the public finances similar to that of Japan, but instead they couldn't find a wall big enough to piss all the money up against. Biffo may be a hapless rabbit caught in a set of car headlamps but he was handed a giant mess by the ugly dipstick that preceeded him.

No. The curent economic collapse was caused in large part by cheap credit policies of major central banks, such as the United States Federal Reserve Bank, to create massive amounts of cheap credit. Through government mandates such as the Community Reinvestment Act, government backing of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, retail banks were encouraged and required to irresponsibly make "sub prime" loans and financing available for people who otherwise should never have qualified for the mortgages they took out.

Banks got greedy, to be sure, but the whole housing bubble was caused in large majority by perhaps well intentioned but irresponsible government (Congress, Federal Reserve) meddling. Not the private sector.

If the U.S. and to a lesser extent Europe had gold backed currency, tightly controlled Fractional Reserve banking and little or no Central banking, none of this would have happened.

The PDs lost any claim to "liberalism" or "libertarianism" in my eyes when Mary Harney banned magic mushrooms. Expanding the Nanny State =/= liberal/libertarian.
I agree with you to a point about the need for a liberal (libertarian?) party. But the PDs at the end clearly were not it. Good riddance.

Fianna Fail is a known quantity. They only care about themselves and their property developer buddies. We have all known this for the past 30 years. Anyone who conciously voted for FF at the last election, and more importantly the 2002 election, must take their share of the blame for the current mess.

oceanclub · 28-01-2009 1:53am

You're seriously saying that noone warned there was a credit and property bubble?

SkepticOne · 28-01-2009 2:22am

I think a lot of people had concerns about the sustainability of the economy at the time, but it was still a minority concern and there was a lot of social pressure to keep quiet about it. Even if the leadership of FG, for example, knew there was trouble ahead (I believe they did) there were no votes in voicing these concerns. In hindsight, if they knew, they should have spoken up.

monosharp · 28-01-2009 3:08am

Free health ? Free healthcare should not be an issue, it should be a right to everyone regardless.

A left wing move for right wing reasons.

Genuine Capitalism would be just as bad as a genuine Communism. The banks are in the position they are in today because of greed, plain and simple.

Normally I'd say "oh yeah .... hhmmm flip a coin ?" but after Bertie and what most of the rest of FF are like I can only suggest ANYONE but them.

I am apolitical at the best of times and I don't think there's a whole lot of difference between the parties but FF has been shafting us too hard for too long. FF wouldn't get within a mile of government in a sane country after their antics over the past few years and that's a fact.

Ireland needs real change, the whole system needs to change. Not just the rats in government but the whole system of government itself.

mountainyman · 28-01-2009 8:47am

Isn't that PD policy?

noel farrell · 28-01-2009 9:21am

ihave never voted FF in any election but i was glad the got back in at the last election so the have to clear up the mess mostly their makeing which would have continued for many years to come only the world down turn which is very bad found them out . i am sorry for all the people who are in thruble and dont know where to turn and we are not near the bottom yet it wil get much worse i have no answer i have to go with the flow like the rest and hope for light at the end of the tunell :mad:

Permabear · 28-01-2009 9:44am

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oceanclub · 28-01-2009 9:47am

We tried mininal interference with Patrick Neary. Look where that got us.

P.

jmayo · 28-01-2009 11:11am

I am sorry but the PDs died as a political force a long time before last election and the dithering of McDowell over berties finances proved that the days of them being the ones to keep a moral ethical eye on ff were well and truly dead and buried.
Their coat was not alone adopted by ffers, but they left the PDs without a shirt on their backs.

Did you vote for Mary Coughlan ? :eek::eek::eek:

+1
The real Celtic Tiger died back in 2001/2002, when a lot of the technology companies got ripped apart post dot com bust.
After that we kept loosing jobs in that arena, in our manufacturing and in some old indigeneous industries e.g Irish Sugar.
All we replaced them with were construction related jobs, be it directly or in the ancilliary industries, and in retail sector.
How many new shopping centres appeared in almost every town in the country?
All of this was nearly fueled by the cheap credit being flung at everyone and the tax breaks being given by government for development of disdavantaged areas, student accomodation, hotels, hospitals etc.

Ah yes one of the Haugheys.
I hear his daddy was an excellent local politican as well.
It's a pity he will forever be remembered as a lying thieving git, who swanked around in expensive shirts, eating in expensive restaruant, while ordinary people paid high taxes, emigrated in droves, died on hospital trolleys or on long waiting lists :mad:

He did for Irish politics what Gary Glitter did for Vietnamese Tourism :rolleyes:

Do you complain that the government is cr** even though you voted for two of it's supporters ?
Will you vote for Haughey/McGrath next time ?

So if there was a general election tomorrow, would you still vote for biffo clowen and his bunch of merry chancers ?
If your football team is relegated to Division 4 from Division 1, would you still want the same manager ?

Boom boom

BTW what is his golden handshake package ?

SkepticOne · 28-01-2009 11:15am

The damaging thing there was not so much the lack of regulation but rather that people were led to believe that things were being regulated. The pretence of regulation is much worse than merely a lack of regulation.

Permabear · 28-01-2009 11:36am

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Bushalicious · 28-01-2009 12:01pm

I have never voted for FF. When they won the last election I couldn't get my head around it. How could the people be so blind? None of my friends voted FF and the general feeling was that they were leading the country to ruin. Shame we were right.

This isn't 20/20 hindsight as a previous poster suggested. This is just keeping your head screwed on at all times and keeping your eyes open. It was obvious for everyone to see that the country was coming apart at the seems years ago.

However the previous poster is correct. A lot of people are coming out bashing the government saying that they new it all along. If all these people genuinely "knew it all along"then we wouldn't have FF in government now. (On a personal note I hate the phrase "the dog in the street could see it." - Idiots say that)

I'm just glad that FF are there to reap what they sowed. They are a bunch of con men, always have been, always will be. They are very good at what they do, and that is misleading the public.

One of my favorite lines of theirs was when the general election results came in and opinion seemed to be pretty divided. It looked like FG and Labour and The Greens and a few independents could make something work. FF didn't like that so they were all over the news saying that Ireland needed strength and continuity and that a "rag tag" government made up of loads of partys would not work. Well excuse me but that is exactly what we got. FF PDs Green Independents. Absolute joke but they convinced the people it was for the best. They did a crap job in their second term and still got voted in so why should they bother trying in their thrid term.

Political memory is short term memory. There is a long time left and FF could spin all this before the next election and the idiots will vote them back in citing that famous phrase "better the devil you know" or "I dont trust the other crowed either".

What we as a nation have to show is that their are consequences for bad managment. People are losing their jobs and their houses and our government blames the world economy. Always with the excuses. If FF really feared the people then they would work harder.

At least if they are ou we will have shown the that we will not tollerate them. Let FG and Labour have a go. They cant do any worse than this shower. Besides, as it stands FF will have been in power for 3 terms in a row. Of course they are complacent. They don't have to try anymore.

jmayo · 28-01-2009 12:11pm

I actually think McDowell is one of the main reasons that the PDs are gone.
As I mentioned elsewhere he might be smart guy, he can often come across as an eejit.

So what is your take on poltical representatives mantaining acceptable standards ?
I think you may know what I am driving at, pardon the pun

Vadrefjorde · 28-01-2009 12:23pm

:eek: Are we really in that much trouble :eek:
On a more serious note the PD's would be a frightening thought to have to go back to relying on. Not that they have fully gone away, Country Tom still seems to have quite a hand in decision making.
Mary get's to pursue her vested interest decimation of public health care,
and the legacy of Mr. McDowell's "i'll change the law if i don't like it" is still with us, or should i say ye now that i'm in the process of escaping this banana zone.

I never voted for Fianna Fail, although i do know a few families that vote by family tradition, not that there's any point trying to point out how ludicrous that is...

I'm still waiting for someone to post "I vote for FF because that's who mammy and daddy always vote for" though.

Permabear · 28-01-2009 12:40pm

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gurramok · 28-01-2009 1:03pm

Why would you vote FF?

Is it an excuse of a bad opposition or you think FF are strongest to get through the recession or is it a case you still believe all is hunky-dory in Ireland?
On FF voters, pensioners voted en masse for FF last time. My own mother did and the reason her and her friends did was because of the promise of 300euro pensions, nothing else.
Remember, the old vote more than other age groups. They have been conned too and thats the reason i beleive they were so angry at the medical card issue.

Liam Byrne · 28-01-2009 2:01pm

Unfortunately, yes. They SHOULDN'T be, but they are.

Apologies to all nuns for the comparison : the difference is that nuns are ethical and have people's well-being in mind.

monosharp · 28-01-2009 2:24pm

Why in Gods name not ?

There has never been genuine capitalism in any country the same way there has never been genuine communism in any country.

Genuine capitalism would be just as evil a notion as Stalinist Russia was, unrivalled and uncontrolled greed. There would be no such thing as any kind of welfare, time off work, sick days, holidays. The very few elite would rule and 80% of the rest of us would be slaves.

OhNoYouDidn't · 28-01-2009 2:30pm

So here we are, four pages in, and not one person who has admitted voting for Fianna Fail did so because they agreed with their manefesto or though they would make a good government.

I assume this is because FF'ers are running scared at the moment, rather than 40% of the electorate being navel gazers.

El Stuntman · 28-01-2009 2:44pm

synposis of FF-voting argument: 'but shure de udder crowd would be worser!'

(actually sounds like something Bertie himself could have said :rolleyes:)

Permabear · 28-01-2009 2:47pm

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Het-Field · 28-01-2009 2:54pm

For some time before the election, the PD manifesto was being implemented through Fianna Fail. Remember when John McGuinness came out claiming their influence was "too much". This stopped in 2004, when Bertie became a socialist.

I voted politically, to ensure that my Ideology had some chance of being reflected in the actions of the Parliment. Granted I never agreed with the prohibition on magic mushrooms.

Interstingly, the lad who voted for Sean Haughey becasue of his local work, is equally as mind boggelling. If Haughey is a goold local politican, then he should be on the council, his resence in the legislature should have nothing to do with his local work, and his local work should not intervene within his role in the legislature.

The locals will tell much. Most of FF votes will be the 30% traditional voter, who would vote for them even if they were committing genocide on a minorty faction of Irish society. I imagine any floting voters, politically motivated voters, and those who lack interest but keep somewhat abreast, will not consider FF.

Moojuice · 28-01-2009 5:00pm

We have seen the result of rampant capitalism and free-market ideology. Granted its not the minimalist state espoused by some but it was/is a taster and it led to ruin and destruction except for a few elites who always profit from the misery of others. I shudder to think what state the world would be in if there was any minimalist state. We are in thsi mess because there was no oversight or regulation, a key element of free-market thinking. It doesn't work. The neo-cons tried it and believed in it and they have been proven wrong beyond a doubt. People like Donegalfella will vote in people like FF out of blind ideological hatred for ANY left-wing policies and will cling vainly to their conservative and failed beliefs. Its interesting to note that when it all goes to **** and right-wing free market ideology leads to ruin, the world governments turn to socialist ideals.

In answer to the health care question, yes the state has a moral duty to pay the health care costs of those who cannot afford it. If you can afford it then you should pay for it, if you are rich you should pay vastly more tax than someone who is on a lot less or on minimum wage. The rich can pay their way so they should. Regardless of the reason, those who cannot should get help from the government, who should do all they can to ensure that people DONT need their help. Only when we move away from this nasty self-interest that led to the economic crisis can we move forward as a species. Private self-interest is what led to this problem, not (just) Government self-interest.

This country will never rise out of the mire with people like Zanu-FF in charge. I dont think the opposition are particularly great but we have put up with the Governments **** for 11 years,.

Did you vote for Fianna Fail and if so why

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