Is it time the irish went home

ionix5891

the title is there to get attention and to take a dig at this thread


anyways to get onto topic, 50000 illegal (unlike the recent migrants here who are legal) Irish in US (a country thats not in the EU unlike Poland...), holy cow, i hope they don't get deported here at the same time

Friday January 23 2009
PRESIDENT Obama must bring forward initiatives to help to legalise the undocumented and illegal Irish in America. We know that there may be as many as 50,000 undocumented and illegal Irish people living in America at present.
Many of these people have lived in America for a long number of years.

The illegal and undocumented Irish cannot leave America to visit sick parents or family members in Ireland, they cannot come home to Ireland for weddings, funerals or family occasions.

Many Irish grandparents have never met their grandchildren. The illegal Irish in America cannot even obtain a driving licence because they cannot produce a social security number.

I know of a personal case of an Irishman who has been living on the east coast of America for the past 15 years. He is working as a painter, he is married and he has three young children. He lives in fear that he will be deported. This is an unacceptable situation.

We are now all living in changed circumstances. With the very difficult economic times in Ireland, we are going to have to address this political issue of the undocumented Irish in America with a renewed spirit of determination and purpose. Irish people have been helped before in America via the Donnelly and Morrison laws.

But we need the political assistance of President Obama now, more than ever.

Sean O Neachtain MEP
AN Spideal, County Galway

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/illegal-irish-need-obamarsquos-help-1611806.html



btw I want to thank Sean for writing letters for to the Independent regularly, i remember when he was a teacher in local school and was friends with his son, nice to know there are some politicians left that care for their constituents

Permabear

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AlekSmart

Am I missing a link here or wha ?

The illegal and undocumented Irish cannot leave America to visit sick parents or family members in Ireland, they cannot come home to Ireland for weddings, funerals or family occasions.

Does Mr O Neachtain feature on Nob Nation or is he winding us up..?

If he`s experiencing a bit of a fall off in his EU work I`m sure there are other areas and people far more entitled to the representations of a MEP than those who made a conscious decision to be "Illegal and undocumented".

At this rate of going Mr O Neachtain may well be lining himself up for a place on the Asylum Application gravytrain.

getz

donegalfella wrote: »

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i always find it strange that countrys like the US have very keen laws on immigrants-when you consider [except for the native american] all are from immigrant stock-many years ago a friend of mine married a american girl and decided to take out US nationality first he had to go to school to learn and take a oath of allegiance-fair enough-but part of his course was to be able to speak english, now this lad was english and had a degree in english from manchester university -i remember him telling me of the teachers telling him that the word colour dident have a u in it .well thats the yanks for you

AlekSmart

Sure getz,America IS a strange place with ahuge variety of even stranger folk rambling around within it.

However it must surely rank as one of the FEW countries on the planet with a very clear and well documented POLICY on who it admits into the place.

Sure it may offend many sensitive souls,sure it has made some odd choices BUT the world and its granny KNOW that these requirements are there to be met and it`s up to them to either pee or get off the pot in their attempts to enter and remain in the USA.

Permabear

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Fratton Fred

I thought the illegal and undocumented irish could come home any time they like, in fact surely all they have to do is walk into the nearest police station and tell them they are an illegal immigrant and they would be home quick as a flash, for free.

What he means is that they can't return to ireland (The country they chose to give up and yet for some reason still think they can get the services of an Irish politician) and return to their cushy tax free illegal lifestyle in the US.

Imagine if there was a politician in Nigeria calling for all illegal nigerians in Ireland to be given irish citizenship, Boards.ie would be bursting with threads calling for them all to be thrown out, along with anyone else with slightly darker than snow skin.

Jesus, I am actually embarrassed for the guy.

ionix5891

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I thought the illegal and undocumented irish could come home any time they like, in fact surely all they have to do is walk into the nearest police station and tell them they are an illegal immigrant and they would be home quick as a flash, for free.

What he means is that they can't return to ireland (The country they chose to give up and yet for some reason still think they can get the services of an Irish politician) and return to their cushy tax free illegal lifestyle in the US.

Imagine if there was a politician in Nigeria calling for all illegal nigerians in Ireland to be given irish citizenship, Boards.ie would be bursting with threads calling for them all to be thrown out, along with anyone else with slightly darker than snow skin.

Jesus, I am actually embarrassed for the guy.

the Nigerian analogy is interesting, insightful comments like this keeps me coming back to boards

Fratton Fred

ionix5891 wrote: »

the Nigerian analogy is interesting, insightful comments like this keeps me coming back to boards

I have no problems win Irish politician supporting Irish ex-pats, but this is supporting Irish people abroad who are breaking the law of that country.

ionix5891

I agree with you, its possibly a waste of our politicians energy

but yea i started this thread as a counterbalance to the previous load of bullocks we were hearing about the polish etc being here

funny how none of the suspects from that thread commented on this as this letter doesn't paint us in good light with double standards and all

Feelgood

I actually think the Irish SHOULD be given preferential treatment to be honest.

Look at the history of the Irish in America, sure we more or less built the bloody place!.

ionix5891

Feelgood wrote: »

I actually think the Irish SHOULD be given preferential treatment to be honest.

Look at the history of the Irish in America, sure we more or less built the bloody place!.

everyone remember to quote the above comment every time a racist thread on immigration pops its head around here

Permabear

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getz

donegalfella wrote: »

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english is english and there is not a language called american even in the study of english in the USA it is still spelt with a u

murfie

I am in the same position as Donegalfella, I was here on a J1 and met my wife in the US. We went through 9 months of being in a different country 5000 miles apart and at some large expense we got my greencard! So I would be pissed if they just allow any Irish here, automatic greencards, as i had to jump through hoops to get into the US. I feel for them however, it must be difficult. But if they went the right way about it, yes its hard but at least they have all the same rights as a citizen.

And I know the "Irish built America" but no more than every other country in the world! We just happen to know about the Irish in the US as that is who we are. And right now it the Mexicans that are building the country, so if you ask me they should be getting the preferred treatment.

nortal

All illegally immigrants should be deported INCLUDING THE IRISH.

I think you will find in my experience most Irish people will agree with my statement, the last time this was raised as when Bertie Ahern was in the States in May, That guy who runs the Irish paper was also on supporting the issuing of green cards for Irish citizens who are breaking the law in a another country, we were listing to it at work and all the Irish lads felt they should be deported as one said

Any body that went to America post 1994, when there were jobs in Ireland, appear on prime time with their face blackened out crying because they can’t get home to visit sick/dying relations. Hello you knew the risks before you went, you still went so tough **** throw them out is what I say

Some of the Irish I meet in the states have a different outlook certainly a generation thing SOME who went in the 70 & 80 have a different outlook more chancier characteristics and think Ireland is populated with small green men, post 90’s Irish are more educated, usually legal, more open minded, think Ireland is great but not perfect

Btw getting deported in the states is not a matter of been put on a plane a couple of hours after you are arrested, you may be in detention for a couple of weeks/months.

Permabear

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The Corinthian

Feelgood wrote: »

Look at the history of the Irish in America, sure we more or less built the bloody place!.

Actually, that's a complete myth. If any immigrant group has been overwhelmingly influential in the rise of the USA, it's probably the Germans.

ionix5891

The Corinthian wrote: »

Actually, that's a complete myth. If any immigrant group has been overwhelmingly influential in the rise of the USA, it's probably the Germans.

true and they played large part in putting Americans on the moon

asdasd

I agree with the sentiment that the Irish illegals should be deported. it fits in with my ideology that States should control borders more empatically.

On the other hand quite a few posters on here who dont seem to think that Ireland should have border control at all are arguing in favour too - no sense to that.

true and they played large part in putting Americans on the moon

Ah, different Germans. The Germans who emigrated to the US in the 19th C. were often pacfists escaping an over-militaristic State.

The Corinthian

asdasd wrote: »

I agree with the sentiment that the Irish illegals should be deported. it fits in with my ideology that States should control borders more empatically.

I note a district lack of comment here from the normal proponents of the "send them back where they came from" brigade.

There was a chap in a thread, a last month, who called on the formation of a new political party that would put Irish first, over immigrants. Simultaneously, he posted on another thread that he was moving to Oz in January as he'd heard there was plenty of work in the factories there.

I leave you to arrive at your own conclusions as to the moral integrity of such people.

Ah, different Germans. The Germans who emigrated to the US in the 19th C. were often pacfists escaping an over-militaristic State.

Actually the vast bulk of German migration to the USA occurred before the unification of Germany.

pepsicokeacola

The Corinthian wrote: »

Actually, that's a complete myth. If any immigrant group has been overwhelmingly influential in the rise of the USA, it's probably the Germans.

myth

the germans are the heartland of america but to claim that the irish building america is a 'myth' is madness.

asdasd

Actually the vast bulk of German migration to the USA occurred before the unification of Germany.

Which isnt what I said. Depends on how you read State. Prussia was a State.

The Corinthian

pepsicokeacola wrote: »

the germans are the heartland of america but to claim that the irish building america is a 'myth' is madness.

To claim that the Irish built America is to claim that Irish-Americans were the single more important ethnic group in it's formation. They weren't, the German-Americans were.

Even at that, no single group 'built' America.

asdasd wrote: »

Which isnt what I said. Depends on how you read State. Prussia was a State.

Prussians and Germans are not quite the same thing though, and we were talking about the latter.

Try confusing a Bavarian with a Prussian and see where that gets you...

K-9

asdasd wrote: »

On the other hand quite a few posters on here who dont seem to think that Ireland should have border control at all are arguing in favour too - no sense to that.

No border controls at all?

Feelgood

The Corinthian wrote: »

To claim that the Irish built America is to claim that Irish-Americans were the single more important ethnic group in it's formation. They weren't, the German-Americans were.

Even at that, no single group 'built' America.

Corinthian I think you are picking Pepsi and myself up wrong here, when we say built we actually mean built as in physically built with cement, bricks and mortar!.

I wasn't talking about the formation of the US as a nation...:)

GuanYin

Feelgood wrote: »

I actually think the Irish SHOULD be given preferential treatment to be honest.

Look at the history of the Irish in America, sure we more or less built the bloody place!.

So did the Chinese and the Mexicans and the Germans and the Dutch.

From our point of view, (that is the American one) you were just one group of many.

From your point of view, of course you guys feel you're important. Honestly, I don't really think you are.

Once you move away from Chicago and Boston and New York, Irish-american-mania dwindles rapidly. German-American and Dutch-American are arguably far more important in the West of America.

Quite frankly, I expect the Irish to get EXACTLY the same treatment as every other illegal immigrant.

pepsicokeacola

From your point of view, of course you guys feel you're important. Honestly, I don't really think you are.

no no of course we are not. that is why 45 milliom claim to be of irish descent when clearly clearly that doesnt even add up. how can a few million result in 45 million, while massive amount of germans immigration and only have about 5 million more people claiming to be of german ancestry as of the 2000 census.

Feelgood

GuanYin wrote: »

From our point of view, (that is the American one) you were just one group of many.

Do you know the point of view of every Americian?.

Are you sure that the 12% of the American population which are of Irish decent would agree with you?.

Chuck the Buck

More Irish clap trap! The Irish built America, nationalisation of Anglo is good and the country isn't bankrput because of it and that old chestnut the 'illegal Irish'.....

The illegal Irish are just that, illegal. Whether or not the US deports them or lets them stay is nothing to do with us ultimatley. Its not our country, we as a people have absolutely no god given right to get in for a holiday, J1 or to live no matter what people say.

Its a sad state of affairs when an MEP is spending his time talking (and looking for a free trip to the US too I'd say) about paddys in the US breaking the law and not doing whatever he's supposted to be doing in the EU.

But when it comes down to it the reason, I believe, that the Govt are interested in this is because of the total fear and terror they are in that there could be 50,000 more unemployed landing over here - the vast majority, if not all, of them are low educated/skilled, the type of jobs that nolonger exist in this country.

GuanYin

Feelgood wrote: »

Do you know the point of view of every Americian?.

Are you sure that the 12% of the American population which are of Irish decent would agree with you?.

Yeah actually, because first and foremost, these people are americans. I have quite alot of Irish immigrant friends and irish-american friends and they differ quite strongly on immigration issues. It comes up quite often oddly.

Of the 36 million Irish americans (and that is unverified self-declared I might add) about 5% are entitled to apply for Irish citizenship. Probably around the same amount that have been to Ireland or even hold a passport.

Now I don't live in Chicago anymore and I'll admit, the attitude towards Irish people is more romantic there and there are far more Irish. But where I am now, in the west, noone cares nearly as much.

GuanYin

pepsicokeacola wrote: »

no no of course we are not. that is why 45 milliom claim to be of irish descent when clearly clearly that doesnt even add up. how can a few million result in 45 million, while massive amount of germans immigration and only have about 5 million more people claiming to be of german ancestry as of the 2000 census.

It must be a fading importance, because the 2007 census has the number at 36 million.

Did 9 million die in 7 years?

edit-

Look, they're here illegally, they're taking jobs away from people who are legally here, they don't pay taxes.

They're criminals and they should be treated as such.

seanybiker

ha ha great thread. Yes they should be sent home. Simple as

asdasd

Did 9 million die in 7 years?

No. Americans will often claim the most "exotic" ancetory, and tend not to see Anglo-Saxon ( which most, or very many of them are) as a category, so if they are mostly of English decent, and only some Irish they claim Irish. German ethnicity became problematic during the first world war, and more problematic during the second, so less people claimed German if they had some other ethnic group.

Added to that the Scots Irish - whose cultural baggage is mostly British - jumping in as Irish and the Irish population is clearly over-estimated. The 9 million deficiet might be Irishness losing it's charm.

Permabear

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Chuck the Buck

Chuck the Buck wrote: »

But when it comes down to it the reason, I believe, that the Govt are interested in this is because of the total free and terror they are in that there could be 50,000 more unemployed landing over here - the vast majority, if not all, of them are low educated/skilled, the type of jobs that nolonger exist in this country.

I'm not too sure about that. I would have thought that the issue would be too unpopular to tackle for any American politician. Sure they've always got the mexican illegals to bother.

GuanYin

asdasd wrote: »

No. Americans will often claim the most "exotic" ancetory, and tend not to see Anglo-Saxon ( which most, or very many of them are) as a category, so if they are mostly of English decent, and only some Irish they claim Irish. German ethnicity became problematic during the first world war, and more problematic during the second, so less people claimed German if they had some other ethnic group.

Added to that the Scots Irish - whose cultural baggage is mostly British - jumping in as Irish and the Irish population is clearly over-estimated. The 9 million deficiet might be Irishness losing it's charm.

Well I knew there wasn't a drop in 9 million I was being facetious

Feelgood

donegalfella wrote: »

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Thats were you and me differ, I would expect anyone who is sick to have their illnesses seen too and treated no matter what country they are in and regardless of immigration laws...

Permabear

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The Corinthian

Feelgood wrote: »

Corinthian I think you are picking Pepsi and myself up wrong here, when we say built we actually mean built as in physically built with cement, bricks and mortar!.

As has already been pointed out, the Irish were only one of numerous groups who 'built' America.

Why are we wasting our time discussing this? Even if it were true, the Irish who helped build America became Americans. The Irish who stayed in Ireland and their descendants who reckon ought to benefit from this, did Jack shìt.

Fratton Fred

Feelgood wrote: »

I actually think the Irish SHOULD be given preferential treatment to be honest.

Look at the history of the Irish in America, sure we more or less built the bloody place!.

So the Polish should be given preference ir Ireland then?

asdasd

So the Polish should be given preference ir Ireland then?

building a few shoddy shoebox appartments for themselves to live in, and then ****ing off home is not the same as building the railroads.

Serenity Now!

asdasd wrote: »

building a few shoddy shoebox appartments for themselves to live in, and then ****ing off home is not the same as building the railroads.

What about if they slaughtered the natives?
The Chinese built the railroads in the States, by the way.

asdasd

Serenity Now! wrote: »

What about if they slaughtered the natives?
The Chinese built the railroads in the States, by the way.

Did the Chinese slaughter the natives, too? Or is that kind of ahistorical ****e reserved for paddys by sleveen halfwits?

The Chinese were amongst the people who built the railroads, along with the Irish. It was a predominatly European/ irish working classes who built the railroads...

Serenity Now!

asdasd wrote: »

Did the Chinese slaughter the natives, too? Or is that kind of ahistorical ****e reserved for paddys by sleveen halfwits

Now, now.
Have a read of 'Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee' as an example before you startslamming what obviously irks you. When you've finished that, then read up on some Aboriginal history in Australia (anything by Jamison will do on that subject).

asdasd

Have a read of 'Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee' as an example before you startslamming what obviously irks you. When you've finished that, then read up on some Aboriginal history in Australia (anything by Jamison will do on that subject).

Retract your blood libel.

I think you are confusing Irish with our Anglo Saxon friends. Or indeed Germans. As we discussed earlier in this thread the irish were not the colonizers of the American heartland - they went to the cities. By the time the Irish Catholics arrived in 1840 the previous colonizers had already done their job. The State actors responsible for these very real genocides were - quite clearly - the USA and the British Empire.

EDIT; And, of course, the colonization and plantation of the US mirrored the near genocide of the Irish, and by the same people.

Serenity Now!

asdasd wrote: »

Retract your blood libel

Oh ffs :rolleyes:

asdasd wrote: »

I think you are confusing Irish with our Anglo Saxon friends. Or indeed Germans. As we discussed earlier in this thread the irish were not the colonizers of the country - they went to the cities. by the time the Irish Catholics arrived in 1840 the previous colonizers had already done their job. The State actors responsible for these very real genocides were - quite clearly - the USA and the British Empire.

Happy reading then, fella. Like I suggested, give it a go.

asdasd

appy reading then, fella. Like I suggested, give it a go.

I think I know the history of the US. I gave it to you. The American project was an Anglo Saxon project. Irish Catholics arrived after most of the genocides, and went to the cities. The project to decimate the Original population was primarily - like Grant and Amherst - Anglo Saxon, and Scoth Irish ( our Ulster friends).

Might as well blame Jews as Irish, since both followed the same immigration pattern - to the cities.

K-9

asdasd wrote: »

building a few shoddy shoebox appartments for themselves to live in, and then ****ing off home is not the same as building the railroads.

Hardly there fault if they where shoddy?

You sure they all going home?

sceptre

Folks, you're bouncing around mostly cruddy posts for about the last page that add nothing in the way of discussion and have very little to do with the thread topic except for fanning your own egos on how well you think you know things.

I expect something of a better standard if I'm going to leave this open. Yes, I'm unfortunately driven to being condescending and saying your posts are irrelevant rubbish and a waste of electrons. Please do better.

Benedict XVI

Firstly I think the Letter from Sean O Neachtain was hilarious

I love the way he says that

'PRESIDENT Obama must bring forward initiatives to help to legalise the undocumented and illegal Irish in America.

Obama must do everything that is right for America and that may or may not involve immigration reform.

I lived in Boston for 6 years between 96 and 02
During that time I meet loads of illegal Irish, most had come over in the mid 90s and earlier.
As the economy picked up in Ireland the number of illegals coming over became less and less, and a lot of illegals who and been there 5 and 6 years were now heading home to the good economy.

I feel sorry for the illegals who have been there since the mid 90s if they had to come home. They have been gone for so long that adjustment to life at home may be difficult, particularly now in a slumping economy.

I also believe that they should not be given any preferential treatment in any immigration reform, they are no different to any other nationality that are illegal in the US.

I also learned while I was there that the Irish did not actually build America as I though, it was built by everyone.