Junior Cup players in Senior Cup/Barton Sheild?

ShriekingSheet

I'm not sure what my own point of view on this is. It's something I'm unsure of. I'd be interested to see what other golfers take on the issue is. I'll give some basic backround so those who aren't overly familiar with the competitions can also take part in the discussion.

Senior Cup (singles) and Barton Sheild (foursomes) are the only men's scratch interclub competitions in Ireland. They represent the highest level at which you can (strictly speaking) represent your club, and the teams that get into the later stages of both events often have players going forward to Leinster and Ireland panels. For the sake of argument, you could say, to have a real chance of winning, the highest member of your panel (of maybe 6 or 7 golfers) would probably need to be a 2 or 3 h'cap. Some clubs can field a full team of golfers off scratch or better.

But for a lot of clubs, this just isn't the case. The best 6 or 7 golfers in the club often go up as high as 5 or 6 handicap, or higher. Most clubs have at least one or two players close to scratch. But invariably, the team will include some players that are sound Junior Cup (5+) merchants.

So there are some slaughterings. A +1 and +2 foursome pairing can often come up against a 3 and a 4 h'cap. No shots are given. Of course there are exceptions (Foxrock incl. a 7 h'cap beating Castle in 2008) but in the main, you can guess what happens.

I guess I'd like to know, do the Junior h'cap players here who've done it, enjoy the day, regardless of the result? I mean, is any day you get to pull on your club colours and challenge yourself against other club players a day to be proud of?
How do the scratch guys feel about coming up against a lad off a 6 h'cap in a singles match with no shots given?
If improvement was needed, is there any rules the GUI could introduce to improve the situation? Or would they be mad to change such an institution of an event? (eg: if you can't field two guys of 4 or lower you can't enter? or having a pre-qualifying day?)
If a 6 h'cap player is playing in Junior Cup, Barton Cup and Jimmy Bruen (where he's really competing) and is asked to play SC and BS as well, is that not a lot to expect of someone?

Either way, it must be accepted that singles scratch matchplay is the purest form of golf. It is brilliant that a team/club element has been developed over many years to create a Senior Cup that takes huge effort and endeavor to win. The foursomes format of the Sheild also introduces a more "team" orientated dynamic, offering more opportunity for giant-slaying clubs that might have better individuals.

There are many examples of hugely succesful cups that throw big teams and minnows in to the same pot and they compete (Blythe Spartans 0 - 1 Blackburn Rovers). But in these succesful events the lowest teams have qualified in some way. An I'm not saying Senior Cup needs a qualifying round either I'm just putting it all forward as food for thought.

If you read the above as 'its all about winning and if you've no chance why play?', you're reading it wrong. I wouldn't deny any golfer of any handicap the chance to play in Senior Cup if he really wanted to. But is that what's best for Senior Cup? It is the top standard but is it the most sought after or has Barton Cup got a bit more magic to it?

Who knows. I certainly don't.

Danow247

First of all good post Shriekingsheet!

Right here are my thoughts on this. 2 years ago in the peak of the season i was hitting the ball unbelievably well and in the winners most weeks, won the captains prize(but couldnt claim the prize due to being a junior) and got to semi finals of Lord Mayors and was just playing very consistent golf & rarely over the 73/74 mark. Because i started the year off 9 i didnt make the junior cup team because i was still off 7 when that came up early in the season. So when i hit this form i got down to 4.6 and had that unbelievably hard decision of whether to keep going down or stay out and leave my handicap for Junior Cup following year. I ended up leaving my handicap be after many discussions with lower handicap guys. They thought if i kept going down the max i could get down to would be high 3's and i would just be in no mans land then. I ended up getting called up to senior cup in castleknock that year and played a trial match against a 1 handicapper from my club. He absolutely rinsed me 7&6 and i was just left thinking whoa ive a lot of ground to make up on these guys!!
It was a harsh lesson that im still sort of learning from as i had an easy one last year. Didnt play much when i should have been kicking on from the previous year.

All in all i think any junior cup player who is not trying to get down & play in barton shield & senior cup has something wrong with them. This is the truest test of golf i think. For me to play in scratch matches against the best players in leinster/ireland drives me on so much to practice this year and get back in them panels!!

Im really looking forward to this year now! Roll on march 17th!!!

ShriekingSheet

Danow247 wrote: »

All in all i think any junior cup player who is not trying to get down & play in barton shield & senior cup has something wrong with them.

That's very blinkered. In your own situation, sure, because you're a junior member with enthusiasm and time to play. But what about the hundreds of middle-aged junior cup players who work efficiently on their golf to stay at 5 or 6 h'cap as well as dedicating themselves to priorities such as bringing up their kids and paying a mortgage.

If they prioritised getting on to a Barton Shield team there'd be something wrong with them!

Mister Sifter

I've not really much experience of the teams side of things here yet. Last season i played Barton Shield, and although i'm not a fan of team golf at all, i have to say it was one of the highlights of my golfing year.

Our club on that ocassion was a good example of what you're talking about i think Sheet. Our handicaps were scratch, 5, 5 and 6. Our opposition were +2 +2 and +1 and +1.

i was paired with another guy off 5 in the second group, playing the two +1s. It was gale force winds and sideways rain that day and i think me and my partner were pretty nervous. We were 5 down thru 6. But won the next 4 to get back to 1 down. Standing on the 16th tee we were back to 2 down, but giving them a real fright. (Playing some great under par golf too i should add).

We felt we were still in with a shout. However, our first pairing went down 3&2 on the 16th green so that meant we, as a team now couldn't win, so we shook hands. It went down as 5 hole loss to the club.

I guess what i'm trying to say, is that anything can happen in those things and that guys off mid single figure handicaps should get themselves into it and give it their all. Because anything is possible. Far from being demoralised by the loss, i was flying afterwards as i realised i had it in me to compete with these guys.

I've said it before, but the teams setup here in Ireland is second to none. It should be a goal for any club member to make their team as it is a fantastic and unique experience.

Sadly, my club decided not to put us in for it this year. Maybe if they had bothered to ask how it panned out, rather than just read the scoreline they would have done.

Hopefully will get a chance to play Barton Cup however.

Also, can anyone lay out a brief indication of what the handicaps are for each cup? i.e. what teams would i qualify for off a certain handicap.

Hobart

Graeme1982 wrote: »

Also, can anyone lay out a brief indication of what the handicaps are for each cup? i.e. what teams would i qualify for off a certain handicap.

All the Leinster details are here http://www.gui.ie/championships.asp?area=7&type=1

If you click on the comp, it will give you the qualifying criteria.

ShriekingSheet

Graeme1982 wrote: »

Also, can anyone lay out a brief indication of what the handicaps are for each cup? i.e. what teams would i qualify for off a certain handicap.

If your lowest h'cap in 2008 was 5 you can play in Junior Cup (5 man team, strokes qualifying then singles matchplay) and Barton Cup (you know about).

You could also play in the Mixed Foursomes or Senior Cup.

As a regular player of Junior Scratch Cups you should be a bit of a trump card in the Junior Cup.

Mister Sifter

Hobart wrote: »

All the Leinster details are here http://www.gui.ie/championships.asp?area=7&type=1

If you click on the comp, it will give you the qualifying criteria.

Cheers, yeah, i've seen that. I wasn't meaning just for me, but for everyone. So they could see, on one page, what is open to everyone rather than having to trawl through all the different gui pages.

Danow247

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

That's very blinkered. In your own situation, sure, because you're a junior member with enthusiasm and time to play. But what about the hundreds of middle-aged junior cup players who work efficiently on their golf to stay at 5 or 6 h'cap as well as dedicating themselves to priorities such as bringing up their kids and paying a mortgage.

If they prioritised getting on to a Barton Shield team there'd be something wrong with them!

Sorry sheet your right that was very based on myself & youth and not junior cup players as a whole.

Hobart

Graeme1982 wrote: »

Cheers, yeah, i've seen that. I wasn't meaning just for me, but for everyone. So they could see, on one page, what is open to everyone rather than having to trawl through all the different gui pages.

Don't think it exists. I know in our place they list every comp they are putting a team forward for and the qualifying criteria on our home website.

Mister Sifter

Hobart wrote: »

Don't think it exists. I know in our place they list every comp they are putting a team forward for and the qualifying criteria on our home website.

Could you post that criteria up here? Or would it be club relevant criteria, rather than universal?

mag

the majority of the top senior cup guys, in clubs that have a chance of winning the cup, are pretty much full time amateurs who play a lot of matchplay. matchplay is a game within a game imho and experience of how to win a match and zone out your opponent are the two big ones that the ft guys have, aprt from obviously being seriously good to be + men.
having said that i played in a barton shield match some years back against two ulster interpros and we beat them on the 17th, if they were giving shots we would have had 9 between us so you never know!

Hobart

Graeme1982 wrote: »

Could you post that criteria up here? Or would it be club relevant criteria, rather than universal?

Will do, as soon as it's up. Currently a blank page, and I don't have access to last years. I'm sure that it would be pretty universal.

f22

I've repesented my club for a few years now at metro, junior and barton cup level, and I agree it's an honour and a buzz to represent your club. I am quite proud that I have only been beaten once through all those matches.

I have a family and other commitments which prevent me from playing and practicing as much as I would like and I have no doubt I could play off a couple of shots lower with a bit of effort.

Like Dano, I regularly play with ones, scratch and plus golfers from my club. I know when I am playing well I can compete with some of these guys, but like everyone else I have a handicap for a reason.

My club won the Leinster Barton Shield in 07, I caddied for a friend of mine and I am under no illusion as to the standard needed to win. You are up against the best amateurs in the country, and the quality of their game is a mile away from any 3/4 or 5 handicapper.

Every dog has it's day and you could play the round of your life and get a win, only to meet some more international or interprovincial in the next round.

I for one know my level and will stick to it.;)

Paulusmaximus

Sheet, good question.

My own thoughts on it is that in the Shield anything can happen. It was only two years ago that Forrest Little won the Shield and they wouldn't be one of the favouries to win at that level. They had only Eoin Arthurs who would be a really top, top golfer who would be competing in the championships regularly(no offence to the others on the team as it was a fantastic achievement). Foursomes is a strange format and it can be a great leveller. A few years ago myself and my brother combined handicaps of 6 beat the top pair from Hermitage(scratch golfers - one now a pro) 5 up. I'd say any competent 5 handicap player could play in the Shield and by no means disgrace themself.

Senior Cup i think is the top competition. Singles matchplay is where its at and this is where players could be broken. the only saving grace about it is in the Leinster area there is probably only 4/5 clubs, if even, that could field 5 scratch golfers. I think a young upcoming golfer could learn a lot by playing in the senior cup. It can be a reality check to them to see the level that they have to reach because some of these "young bucks" can be quite arrogant!

A middle aged man off 5 could be very disheartened by playing and getting beaten each year with little chance of him improving to that level. But there will be times when he will give someone a right good game and win.

I think a lot of it is down to the individual. If a 5/6 handicapper feels up to it, they shouldn't be stopped from playing but they shouldn't feel pressurised into making up the numbers as this is where it becomes disheatening and ineffectual.

f22

Good post Paul.

Yeah, the shield can throw up some funny ones. Forrest Little lost the first round as holders in 08 to Donabate.

Senior cup is a different ball game though, the big guns come through Leinster again and again. 18 holes of singles match play sorts out the men from the boys very quickly.

Sandwich

Danow247 wrote: »

So when i hit this form i got down to 4.6 and had that unbelievably hard decision of whether to keep going down or stay out and leave my handicap for Junior Cup following year.

Sincere apologies if misunderstanding the above:

But was the hard decision : to have the satisfaction of a lower handicap, or, to play at a comfortable level. The issue of cheating by nursing a handicap not being a consideration one way or the other?

f22

Cheating is quite a strong term to use.

Alot of clubs and players will suggest putting the brakes on for the sake of dropping from 5 to 4 for Junior Cup eligibility. 4 is no mans land and standard wise is no different.

Call the cops!:P

JCDUB

f22 wrote: »

Yeah, the shield can throw up some funny ones. Forrest Little lost the first round as holders in 08 to Donabate.

Forrest who???:D

Sligored

proposal going to the adm of the gui in february.

Motion Carried unanimously.


The Connacht Branch Venues & Fixtures Committee with the approval of Provincial Council were proposing the introduction a handicap eligibility clause for the Irish Senior Cup and Barton Shield as follows:

"Handicap Eligibility: In order for a Club to compete in the Irish Senior Cup/Barton Shield each Club must field a minimum of three Players who held a playing handicap of Category 1 status (not greater than 5.4) in the previous Calendar Year."

ShriekingSheet

Sligored wrote: »

proposal going to the adm of the gui in february.

Motion Carried unanimously.


The Connacht Branch Venues & Fixtures Committee with the approval of Provincial Council were proposing the introduction a handicap eligibility clause for the Irish Senior Cup and Barton Shield as follows:

"Handicap Eligibility: In order for a Club to compete in the Irish Senior Cup/Barton Shield each Club must field a minimum of three Players who held a playing handicap of Category 1 status (not greater than 5.4) in the previous Calendar Year."

smack my ass and call me judy!

thanks sligo red

ShriekingSheet

Danow247 wrote: »

Because i started the year off 9 i didnt make the junior cup team because i was still off 7 when that came up early in the season. So when i hit this form i got down to 4.6 and had that unbelievably hard decision of whether to keep going down or stay out and leave my handicap for Junior Cup following year. I ended up leaving my handicap be after many discussions with lower handicap guys. They thought if i kept going down the max i could get down to would be high 3's and i would just be in no mans land then.!!!

Sandwich wrote: »

Sincere apologies if misunderstanding the above:

But was the hard decision : to have the satisfaction of a lower handicap, or, to play at a comfortable level. The issue of cheating by nursing a handicap not being a consideration one way or the other?

f22 wrote: »

Cheating is quite a strong term to use.

Alot of clubs and players will suggest putting the brakes on for the sake of dropping from 5 to 4 for Junior Cup eligibility. 4 is no mans land and standard wise is no different.

Call the cops!:P

I have to say, I read Dano's original post and chose not to comment. But seeing as Sandwich brought it up, I'm not gonna leave him on his own with what I think is a valid point.

Fair enough, "cheating" is an emotive term, usually reserved for people kicking balls or marking cards liberally, but whatever you want to call it, what Dano has described above is not in the spirit of the game at all in my view. I'm not saying it doesn't go on a lot, but wherever it goes on, a junior member has been encouraged by senior members to do this, and thinks that it's so ok that he's gone and posted it on a public forum... IMO it's just not good for the game or your club.

I can see your point f22, suggesting that some leniency is only realistic. Not that any of this is against the rules. But a kid flying down from 9 to almost 4 and putting the breaks, for what like? So he can play Junior Cup off 3 next year and destroy some guy off 6?

I kind of agree that "cheating" is a strong term. But the reality is clear. He sat-out golf for some period so he wouldn't get cut before the end of the year. While he may not be technically cheating, his handicap is artificial.

Danow247

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

I have to say, I read Dano's original post and chose not to comment. But seeing as Sandwich brought it up, I'm not gonna leave him on his own with what I think is a valid point.

Fair enough, "cheating" is an emotive term, usually reserved for people kicking balls or marking cards liberally, but whatever you want to call it, what Dano has described above is not in the spirit of the game at all in my view. I'm not saying it doesn't go on a lot, but wherever it goes on, a junior member has been encouraged by senior members to do this, and thinks that it's so ok that he's gone and posted it on a public forum... IMO it's just not good for the game or your club.

I can see your point f22, suggesting that some leniency is only realistic. Not that any of this is against the rules. But a kid flying down from 9 to almost 4 and putting the breaks, for what like? So he can play Junior Cup off 3 next year and destroy some guy off 6?

I kind of agree that "cheating" is a strong term. But the reality is clear. He sat-out golf for some period so he wouldn't get cut before the end of the year. While he may not be technically cheating, his handicap is artificial.

Although i understand what you are saying sheet it wasnt just as easy as i put it. I decided myself not to play for a few comps because i personally wanted to play junior cup the following year. And for the last month of the season i was away in Portugal. Although i did talk to lower players about it the ultimate decision was made by me. Im not as gullable as you may think! If i dont want to play in a few competitions thats my decision to be honest!! Apologies if my post threw you's off.

f22

Right or wrong, it happens in most clubs around the country.

Generally speaking it happens once because the handicapper will catch up with you the following year anyway.

Let's hope Dano doen't win all the junior scratches this season:p

golf_caddy

Leinster Branch of GUI passed a motion for this year stating that Barton Shield will go to strokeplay qualifying (similar to Jimmy Bruen/Pierce Purcell ) before the matchplay stages kick-in ....
This will weed out those clubs who think they have a chance of
playing with the big boys ( Portmarnock, Royal Dublin etc)

JMB88

golf_caddy wrote: »

Leinster Branch of GUI passed a motion for this year stating that Barton Shield will go to strokeplay qualifying (similar to Jimmy Bruen/Pierce Purcell ) before the matchplay stages kick-in ....
This will weed out those clubs who think they have a chance of
playing with the big boys ( Portmarnock, Royal Dublin etc)

Yeah I saw that ... I think our qualifying section is in Carton House. I presume it'll be the Montgomerie. It will be very interesting playing foursomes strokeplay around there!

jimboddb

Off topic but holding back your handicapp is cheating, no different than the leather wedge in my eyes. I know it happens in every club but thats no excuse. Golf is a honorable and traditional game & lets keep that way.

GreeBo

I also just read Dano's post and though..hmm isnt that minding your handicap?
The fact that you are a low handicap or the reason you were doing to makes no odds to me.

You were consistently playing to 2 but stopped entering competitions so you wouldnt get cut down to 2.

How is that any different from they guy off 19 who only plays open fourballs and wins everything, when realistically he can play singles, strokes shooting 12?

You say that you "are not that gullible", so obviously it was your conscious decision to mind your handicap. Thats cheating Im afraid. Why not throw in a few bad rounds to get yourself back to 4, just to make sure about junior cup next year? Do you see that as any different? I know I sure dont.

f22

Well knowing the chap personally and also knowing all the facts, it had come to the end of the season with a comp or two left. No doubt he was in form so he decided not to play again so he could play junior cup again this year.

Hardly the crime of the century is it?

GreeBo

f22 wrote: »

Well knowing the chap personally and also knowing all the facts, it had come to the end of the season with a comp or two left.

Well I dont see what facts we are not in possession of that would make any difference.

f22 wrote: »

No doubt he was in form so he decided not to play again so he could play junior cup again this year.

Do you disagree that he stopped playing in competitions to avoid getting cut?

f22 wrote: »

Hardly the crime of the century is it?

Neither is kicking a ball out from behind a tree or not taking penalty drops; but I bet (or should I say hope?) that neither of you do that either.
Its a game of self regulation and, in my eyes at least, he failed.

golf_caddy

f22 wrote: »

Right or wrong, it happens in most clubs around the country.

Generally speaking it happens once because the handicapper will catch up with you the following year anyway.

Let's hope Dano doen't win all the junior scratches this season:p

F22 : Given there is 99 junior scratch cups listed on the GUI web site there's a fat chance of Dano winning all of them...
Some are even on the same day!!!

PhilipMarlowe

I am currently in the no-mans land that is a 4 handicap.
I player Junior Cup once and really loved it (won first match against the host venue and lost the second match which went to extra holes for the last guy out, I won both my matches). I'd love to play in it again and at near the end of last season I was 4.2 or 4.3 and not playing particularly well all year so I could have driven to a few open competitions to get a couple of point 1's back and have a 5 handicap starting 2009 which might get me back in to JC in 2010 assuming I don't get cut...
But it goes against why I play the game. I'd only love to shoot 6 under par and have the handicapper rape me for it I found it very tough when I dipped to 3 briefly and it does affect teams because it practically ruled me out of Barton Cup too but such is life. I play the game because I love it and I love the competitive side... I want to enjoy it as a game but couldn't enjoy it if I wasn't honest with myself about trying my best even though more often than not I fail.

f22

GreeBo wrote: »

Neither is kicking a ball out from behind a tree or not taking penalty drops; but I bet (or should I say hope?) that neither of you do that either.

"Neither of you"? We're talking about someone else here and their actions, my actions or intentions were never part of the conversation.

We're talking about someone not playing the final competiton of the year here, not massaging any handicap and cleaning up in 4 ball comps. There is also the possiblity of getting back a .1.

Comparing this to blatant cheating is laughable.

GreeBo

f22 wrote: »

"Neither of you"? We're talking about someone else here and their actions, my actions or intentions were never part of the conversation.

Well you are condoning his actions. To me this means that you dont see anything wrong with them, whereas I clearly do. You say that its hardly the crime of the century so I have no idea where you draw your boundaries.
I think its a fair comment and stand by it.

f22 wrote: »

We're talking about someone not playing the final competiton of the year here, not massaging any handicap and cleaning up in 4 ball comps. There is also the possiblity of getting back a .1.

Last year I shot 3 under the week before the captains prize first round. I won the comp and got cut for it. Turns out that if I wasnt cut I would have moved from 7th to 2nd in the captains overall.
I knew I was going to get cut and I also knew it was the week before the captains but I put the card in anyway because thats what you do.

f22 wrote: »

Comparing this to blatant cheating is laughable.

A lie of omission is the same as a blatant lie. This is no different.
How many competitions would he have had to skip before you thought he was minding his handicap? 3, 5, 10? If you think 1 is ok then you open the door for this type of behaviour and then you cant draw the line anywhere.

f22

So are you saying the fact that he didn't play in a competition that he cheated?

GreeBo

f22 wrote: »

So are you saying the fact that he didn't play in a competition that he cheated?

No.
He didnt play for the express reason of protecting his handicap.
How is that an different than playing but not handing in your card?

PhilipMarlowe

Well he deliberately chose not to play in (a) competition(s) to avoid getting cut. He said he was playing well and had an "unbelievably hard decision" to make... so it's hard to reconcile that with something trivial.

golf_caddy

Dano said he was playing great guns and was down to 4.3 two years ago.... lets get the lad back in to tell us what his exact is now .... wonder if he kicking on from it

f22

GreeBo wrote: »

No.
He didnt play for the express reason of protecting his handicap.
How is that an different than playing but not handing in your card?

One simple fact. If you play and have a card, you have a score. You have a definite outcome. If you chose to avoid a definite cut, it's out and out cheating.

f22

Dano, explain yourself you cheating pig

Danow247

Lads this is all getting a bit out of hand really. To suggest i cheated is to me completly way off the mark. I know you are only going on what ive said in previous posts and dont know the full situation. But the fact is, it was mid september and there was about 2 comps left. I personally decided not to play in them. To be honest thats my decision & it could have been for any reason at all. Its my choice if i dont want to play in a competition and there is no rule to say i cant. I could have played in these comps and shot 90's and got 2 x .1's back?

I had never played junior cup before & if i went below 5 i wouldnt be able to. Plus the fact id be off 4 and the lowest member of our senior cup panel was 1 so i had no chance of making them teams and wanted to play inter club golf the following year.

At the end of the day my handicap stayed at 4.6 for the year and i played junior cup last year. My current h/c is 5.3 due to a bad last year & i will be hopefully playing J/C again this year. To me what i did wasnt breaking any rules of Golf? Maybe you all have different opinions on the matter but they are only your opinions and not rules so i couldnt care less to be honest? What are ya's gonna do? Tell on me? Get a grip of yourself Greebo will ya!

GreeBo

f22 wrote: »

One simple fact. If you play and have a card, you have a score. You have a definite outcome. If you chose to avoid a definite cut, it's out and out cheating.

Taking deliberate double bogeys on the last 3 holes is also not avoiding a definite cut but its definitely cheating.
You can argue the semantics all you want but as I said, you are supposed to be able to regulate yourself in this game and keeping your handicap artificially high is not self regulation.

How would you feel if Dano beat you by 1 shot in the first comp of the new year? Knowing full well that in all likelihood he would have been cut the year before if had played as normal?

PhilipMarlowe

Danow247 wrote: »

...I could have played in these comps and shot 90's and got 2 x .1's back?

Danow247 wrote:

and was just playing very consistent golf & rarely over the 73/74 mark

Of course you could have played and sucked but by not trying, you chickened out. Might not be cheating in golf terms but you were not being honest with yourself. As Rosalynn Carter once said, “You have to have confidence in your ability, and then be tough enough to follow through.”

golf_caddy

4.3 to 5.3 ......... 25% increase now there's inflation :eek:

GreeBo

Danow247 wrote: »

To me what i did wasnt breaking any rules of Golf? Maybe you all have different opinions on the matter but they are only your opinions and not rules so i couldnt care less to be honest? What are ya's gonna do? Tell on me? Get a grip of yourself Greebo will ya!

The randa specifically state that they do not provide rules related to handicap regulation. Its the responsibility of the GUI in Ireland.

Would you openly tell the GUI that you deliberately kept your handicap high enough so that you could play in certain competitions? Honestly, what do you think their reaction would be?

Why exactly do you think these competitions have handicap ranges/limits?
Its to make them fair. You are deliberately circumventing that.

Danow247

Lads this was nearly 1 and a half years ago now. I think its shown, now that im out 5.3 that it doesnt matter?

Anyway im done talking about this i couldnt give a shi*te what you's think on the matter.

f22

GreeBo wrote: »

Taking deliberate double bogeys on the last 3 holes is also not avoiding a definite cut but its definitely cheating.
You can argue the semantics all you want but as I said, you are supposed to be able to regulate yourself in this game and keeping your handicap artificially high is not self regulation.

How would you feel if Dano beat you by 1 shot in the first comp of the new year? Knowing full well that in all likelihood he would have been cut the year before if had played as normal?

To add my last 2 cents on this topic. This year my club brought in drastic measures to cut out what I think is far more fitting of your description. There were several multi 4 ball winners that would never feature or enter in singles competitions (except winter rules). The same names appeared again and again.

There were several players cut up to 4 strokes, which I, and many others found just and welcome. Any 4 ball winners appear on the radar and continually assessed accordingly.

Greebo, on your last point. I played with Dano 2 weeks ago. He was rubbish so I'm not too worried about him at all in this years opener.

Danow247

f22 wrote: »

Greebo, on your last point. I played with Dano 2 weeks ago. He was rubbish so I'm not too worried about him at all in this years opener.

Haha we'll see fergal!! In the range most nights at the moment!! Ripping it!

PhilipMarlowe

I heard mention a year ago that there was a rule coming in that you had to play in "x" number of competitions in a year to keep a handicap... we spoke about it here too if I remember. It was going to be particularly an issue for people who had distance memberships... but I don't know if it is a GUI rule or what's the story.

golf_caddy

Licksy.... the number of comps you have to enter is 4 to keep your handicap.

F22 "I played with Dano 2 weeks ago. He was rubbish so I'm not too worried about him at all in this years opener. "

Maybe he was reeling you in .... Did money change hands?

f22

golf_caddy wrote: »

Maybe he was reeling you in .... Did money change hands?

In fact I actually paid his green fee that day. He owes me that aswell as the bet.

I feel like such a fool......:p

Danow247

golf_caddy wrote: »

Licksy.... the number of comps you have to enter is 4 to keep your handicap.

F22 "I played with Dano 2 weeks ago. He was rubbish so I'm not too worried about him at all in this years opener. "

Maybe he was reeling you in .... Did money change hands?

Haha it did actaully! Still owe him 26eur!! But he paid for me to play in corballis so i only really owe 6eur for the bet!!

Have to arrange a rematch for Sunday actually! You up for it??