Lost 5x02 - "The Lie" [** Spoilers **]

Mr E

Airdates:
21st January (US)
25th January (RTÉ2)
25th January (Sky One)

If you are watching this on RTÉ2 or Sky One on Sunday, or you are watching it sooner than that, but haven't watched yet, then hit the back button NOW.... Spoilers ahead - you have been warned.

Synopsis From TV.com:

Hurley and Sayid are hunted down by the cops. Jack and Ben try to bring everyone together as a team. Kate receives help from an old friend to hide the truth.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

6

not sure how I felt about that one, definitely wasn't as balls to the wall awesome as the first.

who was teh old white haired chick at the end? was it that fortune teller chick desmond met?

Anima

6

Yeah that was her alright. I'm guessing thats Faraday's mother also? Has to be.

Also the ginger chick, something going on there but they didn't elaborate much. The fact she randomly blurts out, "I couldn't remember her maiden name", was a bit of an odd thing to say I thought. Seemed clumbsy.

This episode was a lot slower in pace which I think was a bad move, should have leveled the story out over the two episodes rather than such a trastic shift in tempo.

thecommander

6

Anima wrote: »

Yeah that was her alright. I'm guessing thats Faraday's mother also? Has to be.

Also the ginger chick, something going on there but they didn't elaborate much. The fact she randomly blurts out, "I couldn't remember her maiden name", was a bit of an odd thing to say I thought. Seemed clumbsy.

This episode was a lot slower in pace which I think was a bad move, should have leveled the story out over the two episodes rather than such a trastic shift in tempo.

Shes getting sick from the time jumping, like the guy on the boat in the last season. Started with a nosebleed.

Sad Professor

6

Brilliant cliffhanger!

The scene before it with Locke was also excellent. Kinda made up for the lack of pace in the rest of the episode. The two eps didn't really compliment each other though. I think ABC's decision to air them back to back was probably a bad idea.

The lack of character-centric flashbacks/forwards wasn't jarring as you'd expect after 4 years of this structure. The new format seems very natural. And without losing the character focus of previous seasons. I mean this ep was clearly Hurley-centric.

qz

6

Nice cameo from Ana Lucia there, however much I disliked her in season 2. Not a bad episode but really a bit of a let down compared to the first. Quite a let down actually.

What happened to the glory days of season 1 and the very beginning of season 2?

I miss the old Lost.


(edit: quick question, who were the British army guys that captured Sawyer and Juliet? Or do we know yet?)

Sad Professor

6

qz wrote: »

(edit: quick question, who were the British army guys that captured Sawyer and Juliet? Or do we know yet?)

I assumed they were Dharma. They appeared to be wearing the uniform. I may be mistaken though.

Anima wrote:

Yeah that was her alright. I'm guessing thats Faraday's mother also? Has to be.

Yeah I think so too.

For anyone who still doesn't remember her, her name is Miss Hawking and we first met her in Flashes Before Your Eyes in season 3. She explained the rules of time travel to Desmond, telling him that he couldn't change time because things have a way of "course correcting." Then in Catch 22, another Des episode also in season 3, we saw her in a picture standing next to Brother Campbell. Campbell was the monk that Desmond worked for. He fired Desmond, telling him God had different plans for him. Des met Penny as a result.

Now consider how in this episode Miss Hawking is working in a kind of science lab beneath a church/chapel. Science and faith, those two big themes of the show, working together. Campbell and Hawking clearly shaped Desmond's destiny. It was no accident he ended up on the island. Along with Abaddon they are clearly part of some bigger force or forces at play.

Narcissus

8

Anima wrote: »

Also the ginger chick, something going on there but they didn't elaborate much. The fact she randomly blurts out, "I couldn't remember her maiden name", was a bit of an odd thing to say I thought. Seemed clumbsy.

In one of the episodes last season Daniel was having difficulty remembering cards when playing a memory game with Charlotte. So memory must be affected by the time shift.

The scene with Locke towards the end was really good. As was the scene before with the flaming arrows.

The men with guns were probably dharma, but the people who attacked the losties on the beach must have been a separate group.

I thought it was another good episode. Can't wait for the next one.

randomchild

Really solid start to the season. The rise and fall of Niall being my favourite .

lostexpectation

the men were from ww2, british soldiers, they were mentioned before weren't they.

they were treating them like they would the natives of the island who shot the arrows

i thought redshirt guy was going to get it but he survived didn't he.

emmy winning performance from sayid there

abelard

7

I watched the two eps together this morning so I'm having trouble rating them separately so I'll throw everything in here.

I wasn't too put out by the slower pace in episode 2, it kind of had to happen once Sayid KO'd.

Couple of favourite scenes;

"WE....HAVE....NO....FIRE!!" *thunk*

Hurley truncating the plot and reminding us how ludicrous it really is when talking to his mother!

Miss Hawking in the basement, I saw the Foucault's Pendulum in the trailer and wondered how they'd work it in, but it's kind of cool the way she was (I'm guessing) using it to work out areas of magnetic anomaly.

Faraday meeting Desmond in "past-island"

The reunion of Locke with Sawyer and Juliet

Faraday at the construction of the Orchid.

Ana Lucia's cameo.

Overall I was happy, without being blown away. They caught up with everyone and moved most of the stories along nicely. I'm pleasantly surprised that, by the looks of it, it will be pretty soon when the Oceanic 6 (+ Desmond?) get back to the island. I thought that it might take until the end of the series.

I guess they'll have to hope that they arrive at the island when the rest are there, and not in the past/future!

I'll give it an 8, maybe a tiny bit kind since it's been so long since the last season, but it's made me pretty optimistic for the rest of the season!

anotherlostie

6

After a great, and surprise, opening courtest of Ana Lucia, it did drag on a bit. I wonder who the woman in the butchers is - Ben seems to have contacts everywhere. I thought the guys at the end were wearing Dharma uniforms, and I wondered was one of them going to be a young Charles Widmore (but I guess that wait is for another day). Last seen was class, and nice of them not to spoiler it by putting Fionnuala Flanagan amongst the guest stars. I reckon she must be Faraday's mother too - what will happen when Desmond meets her again???

jor el

4

When Ana Lucia was talking to Hurley, before she left, who was it she said, says hello?

Again, not a great episode. The scene with the fire arrows, and then Locke re-joining was good. Did anyone else think Sun is seriously gone in the head? Also, I still don't think it's Ben she's after, but Jack, and her question to Kate just backs that up.

Speaking of Kate, just how annoying is she going to get?

Daysha

8

Best (mini) theory about the new episodes Ive just seen:

"Exposé is referenced specifically in this episode in order to drive viewers to research and recall the events of Season 3, episode 14 in which we learn about a spider that can cause someone to appear dead for a relatively lengthy period of time.... "

Thats Lockes story explained then!

Sad Professor

6

qz wrote: »

(edit: quick question, who were the British army guys that captured Sawyer and Juliet? Or do we know yet?)

Sad Professor wrote: »

I assumed they were Dharma. They appeared to be wearing the uniform. I may be mistaken though.

lostexpectation wrote: »

the men were from ww2, british soldiers, they were mentioned before weren't they.

anotherlostie wrote: »

I thought the guys at the end were wearing Dharma uniforms, and I wondered was one of them going to be a young Charles Widmore (but I guess that wait is for another day).

I checked that scene with the British guys again and I was mistaken — they are wearing uniforms but not the traditional Dharma uniforms. Maybe they are from the Arrow station, which, according to Marvin Candle at the beginning, was created to develop "defensive strategies" against the Hostiles/Others.

The fact that they were going to cut Juliet's arm off is interesting. Marvin Candle is missing an arm in the later Dharma videos.

Anima

6

Just remembered the scene when Jack and Ben are talking. Jack asks "He is dead right?" [reffering to Locke] and Ben just looks at him and walks away. Theres kind of conflicting info because Richard told Locke he had to die and the newspapers said that "Bentham" hung himself. I dunno really

Talisman

jor el wrote: »

When Ana Lucia was talking to Hurley, before she left, who was it she said, says hello?

Libby - the girl Hurley had fancied.

anotherlostie

6

deise59 wrote: »

Best (mini) theory about the new episodes Ive just seen:

"Exposé is referenced specifically in this episode in order to drive viewers to research and recall the events of Season 3, episode 14 in which we learn about a spider that can cause someone to appear dead for a relatively lengthy period of time.... "

Thats Lockes story explained then!

It could also explain Christian Shepherd still being alive.

People dying and coming back to life was a plot used in JJ Abrams' Alias a couple of times (Sloane's wife, Vaughn) and they did just replicate the plot with Nitrogen blasting explosives to delay their detonation which killed Tom Grace in Alias, so ya never know!

Talisman

Could one of the soldiers be Charles Widmore? Niall said something about it taking Widmore 20 years to find the island after he left.

Chardee MacDennis

abelard wrote: »

Miss Hawking in the basement, I saw the Foucault's Pendulum in the trailer and wondered how they'd work it in, but it's kind of cool the way she was (I'm guessing) using it to work out areas of magnetic anomaly.

i presumed she was calculating when the island would be back in current time and thats when the oceanic 6 would need to be there.

Also anyone reckon Ben is the client who is pushing Kates maternity test to push her back to the island?

AlmightyCushion

Who the fúck is neil and why won't he shut the fúck up?

Edit: lol, that shut him fairly quickly.

Unpossible

8

Sad Professor wrote: »

I checked that scene with the British guys again and I was mistaken — they are wearing uniforms but not the traditional Dharma uniforms. Maybe they are from the Arrow station, which, according to Marvin Candle at the beginning, was created to develop "defensive strategies" against the Hostiles/Others.

The fact that they were going to cut Juliet's arm off is interesting. Marvin Candle is missing an arm in the later Dharma videos.

That is interesting, me and the wife were going through theories and I pointed out that they didn't "jump" before meeting them so they must be part of the same group/platoon as that guy Desmond met in the hatch. But I'm not sure if they are with Darma or maybe some force sent in by penny's dad to take the island back from Ben.

Mellor

6

Sad Professor wrote: »

I assumed they were Dharma. They appeared to be wearing the uniform. I may be mistaken though.

I'm surprized you thought that at first. (I've seen your next post)
The uniforms are quite different, although they may still be dharma

Apapaia wrote: »

In one of the episodes last season Daniel was having difficulty remembering cards when playing a memory game with Charlotte. So memory must be affected by the time shift.

I think he was trying to guess the cards, not remember them. Its been a while, but thought so.

deise59 wrote: »

Best (mini) theory about the new episodes Ive just seen:

"Exposé is referenced specifically in this episode in order to drive viewers to research and recall the events of Season 3, episode 14 in which we learn about a spider that can cause someone to appear dead for a relatively lengthy period of time.... "

Thats Lockes story explained then!

I don't think so. Its more likely a reference to Nikki.

While the spiders bite fooled the losties on the island. A modern medical team would not be. It would be spoted at some point of the funeral, autopsy, embalming etc. Unless these were all avoided.
Of course, using various contacts, Ben and/or locke might bypasses all these.

Talisman wrote: »

Could one of the soldiers be Charles Widmore? Niall said something about it taking Widmore 20 years to find the island after he left.

He didn't say after he left. He said "the first time". Charles may or may not have been there before.

Unpossible wrote: »

That is interesting, me and the wife were going through theories and I pointed out that they didn't "jump" before meeting them so they must be part of the same group/platoon as that guy Desmond met in the hatch. But I'm not sure if they are with Darma or maybe some force sent in by penny's dad to take the island back from Ben.

A number of hours had passed. They may have already jumped and we just didnt see it. We probably won't see them all if they do.

Do we have a time line for when Ben killed his Dad and Dharma?

Axwell

randomchild wrote: »

Really solid start to the season. The rise and fall of Niall being my favourite .

Neil...they only said his name about 100 times since we never saw him before...

Talisman wrote: »

Could one of the soldiers be Charles Widmore? Niall said something about it taking Widmore 20 years to find the island after he left.

His name is Miles...not Niall

Really loving Lost being back, some good story lines being developed. Especially interested to see how Mrs Hawkings/Daniels Mother (I assume she is going to turn out to be) story pans out after seeing her in her little lab working away.

Sad Professor

6

Mellor wrote: »

Do we have a time line for when Ben killed his Dad and Dharma?

I think Horace (when he was chopping wood for Jacob's cabin) told Locke he had been dead for 12 years in Cabin Fever last season. So that would place The Purge at around 1992.

AlmightyCushion

About locke, I'm thinking the island can heal him, why else would they bring him back?

Axwell

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

About locke, I'm thinking the island can heal him, why else would they bring him back?

Richard mentioned the island healing Locke, when he was shot Richard said keep the wound clean the island will do the rest, so its possible Locke will be resurrected by the island maybe if they bring him back. Also hes obviously able to walk since being on the island so it cured him before.

Tristram

2

Is this the final season? I'll only be willing to put up with Lost ****e if I know the end is near and it will have to finally deliver or own up as a giant hoax.

AlmightyCushion

Tristram wrote: »

Is this the final season? I'll only be willing to put up with Lost ****e if I know the end is near and it will have to finally deliver or own up as a giant hoax.

There will be another season after this one and that is meant to be it.

Tristram

2

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

There will be another season after this one and that is meant to be it.

:mad::( ffs

Sweeno

9

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Who the fúck is neil and why won't he shut the fúck up?

Edit: lol, that shut him fairly quickly.

everyones thoughts

i love the way faraday is working on the orchid station, probly means sawyer nd juliet n co. are on the island at that time aswell, loads of plots poppin up left right n centre ... is this the last series? i think i remember an ad sayin that there were only 34 ep's left? maybe im wrong

Mellor

6

Sad Professor wrote: »

I think Horace (when he was chopping wood for Jacob's cabin) told Locke he had been dead for 12 years in Cabin Fever last season. So that would place The Purge at around 1992.

Yeah, I checked it up, it was on Ben's birthday in '92

I'm pretty sure there was another jump we didn't see. Bare in mind, one jump was halfway in 5.01, and none in Ep 5.02. The British guys were most likely per purge, maybe pre Dharma. I very much doubt they were around in early 2000s with desmond.
Their uniforms and guns were pretty old too. They carried M1's, which the british never used, and the US used from WW2 to the early 60s.
I reckon they were some sort of private army from c.1970

Sweeno wrote: »

everyones thoughts

i love the way faraday is working on the orchid station, probly means sawyer nd juliet n co. are on the island at that time aswell, loads of plots poppin up left right n centre ... is this the last series? i think i remember an ad sayin that there were only 34 ep's left? maybe im wrong

there are 18 episodes in each of the two seasons left. Which would be 34 left as of now.

Neo#

9

Mellor wrote: »

there are 18 episodes in each of the two seasons left. Which would be 34 left as of now.

That add is before the episodes are shown on sky. There are 34 total for series 5 and 6, so only 32 left!:(

Sad Professor

6

Mellor wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there was another jump we didn't see. Bare in mind, one jump was halfway in 5.01, and none in Ep 5.02.

Was there not a jump at the end of Faraday's conversation with Desmond?

cooker3

I am finding it hard to distinguish between this and episode 1.
So overall I enjoyed both, there was a lot going on. I was happy to see Pierre Cheng starting it off. We are clearly going to see more of him. I guess that confirms that it was Faraday in that video played at Comic Con.

I loved everything Hurley did. It felt like I was watching weekend at Bernie's the way they were throwing Sayed around. Some great lines from him and his parents.
"I didn't murder him, he did. Oh well that's ok then" or
"Hugo, why is there a dead Pakistani on my couch"

I am really loving the new Sun, she is much more interesting then anything she ever did on the island. The way she asked how Jack was to Kate makes me think Ben isn't the only person she is after. There was something ominous about how she said it.

I am really delighted to see Miss Hawking, I didn't think she would be in it again as Faraday seemed to fulfil her role. I say it's a a near dead cert she is Faraday's mother.

Overall, I like the new structure of the show. It works better then flashbacks and it made it feel more action packed. Good start to the season.

Mellor

6

Sad Professor wrote: »

Was there not a jump at the end of Faraday's conversation with Desmond?

Yeah, there was. Forgot about that. Which disproves the comments above much easier.
But I still think that its wrong to assume that they are in the same time just because they didn't jump on screen.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

9

Classic episode.
Hurley explaining everything to his mother was priceless in one way and quite moving in another - great scene.
I thought it was a great episode.

gazzer

Anybody else think that Sun is the person that the 2 guys who came to Kates house are working for?

J-blk

6

CaptainNegative wrote: »

Hurley explaining everything to his mother was priceless in one way

Yep, loved that scene - hilarious to summarize how insane the major plot of the entire show's run to date has been .

gazzer wrote: »

Anybody else think that Sun is the person that the 2 guys who came to Kates house are working for?

I think so too, her whole "but I'm not blaming you" speech definitely sounded spiteful, not forgiving...

Chumpski

6

Finding it hard as well to remember what happened in which episode as well!

Well first of all i was delighted to see a Faraday centric episode as episode 1 (at least i think it was). It marks the first time Jack was almost all but left out of the first episode doesn't it? I think Faraday is the best of all the new characters introduced since season 2. I like the time travelling element to the show. I think it makes for a good way to explain what the island is and how its special. Great to see Faraday messing around with the Dharma people.

So Ben has to get all the oceanic 6 together and get them back to the island. And apparently so does Desmond. Why after 3 years is it so important to get them back? Why not sooner? Maybe we will see Ben and Desmond team up to get them back seeing as Ben will have a hard time getting them to do anything now!

I don't think its very likely that the woman at the end is Faradays mother. Shes in Los Angeles while Desmond is going to Oxford.

One thing that struck me. Richard is the same age at a couple of points throughout the timeline but him and the others didnt skip through time like Locke and co. Why is that? It seems to be a fair guess that he time travels as well and isn't immortal or something.

Hyzepher

Is it not feasible now that the survivors will turn out to be the original hostiles?

Chumpski

6

That or ancestors of them. Its possible. Faraday has said that whatever happened happened and you cannot change the past or the future so that might rule something like that out. Thats apart from Desmond who is the only character capable of changing anything. Thats another question what will the oceanic 6 solve by going back. It seems like Desmond is the man they have to get back!

I think it was Sad Professor saying in another post that it might be similar to the Stand. The Randall Flagg Addabon vs. the old wise lady who Ben is taking orders from. She is likely to be this higher power or whatever since shes telling Ben what to do and making him stressed cos nobody in the show has ever done that before!

J-blk

6

Chumpski wrote: »

So Ben has to get all the oceanic 6 together and get them back to the island. And apparently so does Desmond. Why after 3 years is it so important to get them back? Why not sooner?

I don't think it's been 3 years for the people on the island - the 6 that left have to return at a specific time (or "window") to sync up with everyone else or something. To them, it's been 3 years, but to the folks on the island, time has no meaning. So if the 6 don't return at the correct point I assume, the losties will either be in the past or future but not there...

Chumpski wrote: »

Faraday has said that whatever happened happened and you cannot change the past or the future so that might rule something like that out.

That's another lie by Faraday though, isn't it? He told Saywer that no matter what he did, Desmond in the past would not open the door cause it never happened that way, then goes and does the very thing he told him could not happen!

Chumpski

6

I wouldn't say hes lying to Sawyer. Just to go over events again. Yeah he stopped Sawyer banging on the door because he says that he cant change anything that has happened or that is going to happen. Then he sees Charlotte is getting affected by the time skipping so he looks up his notebook and it tells him something. Maybe to do something or tell Desmond something which would mean its not breaking the rules since it already happened (or was meant to happen).

J-blk

6

Yeah I forgot Faraday went back to check the notebook first and not sure what that's about... I still see him as having pretty dodgy motives though and not convinced on which side he is (though he does seem to care for Charlotte and that's about it).

Ron DMC

7

J-blk wrote: »

Yeah I forgot Faraday went back to check the notebook first and not sure what that's about... I still see him as having pretty dodgy motives though and not convinced on which side he is (though he does seem to care for Charlotte and that's about it).

Faraday definitely has a connection with Des and knows that Des is somehow special/ immune to the time travel. Remember how Des is Faraday's constant?

Perhaps Faraday's notebook is a memoir of stuff that has happened/will happen but that he doesn't remember. He wasn't able to remember playing cards last season so there's definitely something up with his memory.

DeadParrot

The whole thing about Locke and Richard when Locke was younger makes sense now

The bit where Richard askes Locke to pick the compass?


meh? maybe

Ste.phen

DeadParrot wrote: »

The whole thing about Locke and Richard when Locke was younger makes sense now

The bit where Richard askes Locke to pick the compass?


meh? maybe

*head a-splode*

DeadParrot

Just thinking about this:



Its the old helicopter hovering for 24 hours scenario.
If the island jumps through time and comes down in the same location then the co-ordinates would have changed due to spin/tilt of the earth.
Obviously, its set to always come up in the middle of the ocean though

Could also explain (maybe) how the polar bears got there?

endaob

I'm just reading Foucaults Pendulum by Umberto Eco at the moment. Loads of stuff in there about telluric currents, the earth's magnetism, and the "true pole", a place on the planet of incredible power. Anyone else read this and noticed a big overlap with Lost? Was thinking that before I saw the latest episode. Is the island on the point of the true pole?

From a page about the novel:
"The final version involves the Knights Templar’s discovering secret energy flows – telluric currents – during the Crusades. The currents’ mother lode is the so-called umbilicus mundi, or “navel of the world”. By placing a special valve in the umbilicus mundi, they will be able to control the currents, to disturb and interfere with life anywhere on Earth, with vast blackmailing possibilities against entire nations. However, they cannot utilize the currents due to insufficient technology."

astrofool

DeadParrot wrote: »

Just thinking about this:



Its the old helicopter hovering for 24 hours scenario.
If the island jumps through time and comes down in the same location then the co-ordinates would have changed due to spin/tilt of the earth.
Obviously, its set to always come up in the middle of the ocean though

Could also explain (maybe) how the polar bears got there?

It would also appear in a completely different part of space entirely if that was the case, e.g. the other side of the sun.