LLM Advice and Options

johnfás

Hi guys just wondering if anyone had advice (not legal advice ) about the various LLM programmes on offer and their value. I got a job offer from one of the 'big 5' firms but obviously it is not for this coming year so I will have a year off to do whatever with. It is not as if it is going to get me a job, as I already have that, but presumably it would help me greatly with future career advancement.

Living in Dublin there are two obvious options, the LLM at TCD and the one at UCD. Has anyone done either of these or have any advice in respect of them?

A second option is the LLM in International Economic Law at the University of Warwick. My situation is as follow, I did my undergraduate degree in History and Politics and then came to law in the form of the Postgraduate Diploma at DIT. Naturally the subject matter of this course is of great interest to me as it in many ways combines the talents of the two. However, is this really a relevant degree which would be of use to me or is it more of a lofty ambition and I would be better doing one of the ones in Dublin?

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated .

Stirling

Don't suppose you'd think of starting the tax exams? Probably as beneficial if not more so than the LLM in terms of Career Advancement.

www.taxireland.ie

Sangre

I wouldn't bothered with either those masters. Go travelling.

dats_right

Sangre wrote: »

I wouldn't bothered with either those masters. Go travelling.

I concur wholewheartedly with this advice. A masterss degree will not in anyway benefit your career, if you want to do one for your own sake well then go for it, but don't do so thinking that it will have any significance on your cv because it's about as important as having a part-time job as a paper-boy when you were 14 on said cv!

What is truly important is the quality of your training and experience and to a lesser extent (once you're qualified) your primary degree academic results. Somebody mentioned doing tax exams, that would definitely be a better plan than masters, but, seen as you already have a traineeship in a top5, I would be inclined to chill out, enjoy the year "off" and maybe do some travelling or learn a language (which incidentally would be more beneficial than a masters also).

hada

johnfás wrote: »

Hi guys just wondering if anyone had advice (not legal advice ) about the various LLM programmes on offer and their value. I got a job offer from one of the 'big 5' firms but obviously it is not for this coming year so I will have a year off to do whatever with. It is not as if it is going to get me a job, as I already have that, but presumably it would help me greatly with future career advancement.

Living in Dublin there are two obvious options, the LLM at TCD and the one at UCD. Has anyone done either of these or have any advice in respect of them?

A second option is the LLM in International Economic Law at the University of Warwick. My situation is as follow, I did my undergraduate degree in History and Politics and then came to law in the form of the Postgraduate Diploma at DIT. Naturally the subject matter of this course is of great interest to me as it in many ways combines the talents of the two. However, is this really a relevant degree which would be of use to me or is it more of a lofty ambition and I would be better doing one of the ones in Dublin?

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated .

Travelling is always a good idea if you have the time, which you do.

Masters in TCD is soft from what I hear.

UCD Commercial law is a bit of work, some good lecturers and it does exactly what it says on the tin - commercial law related subjects.

A friend of mine lectured in Warwick for a few years and said it's a great school, good staff and students. It's also not that badly ranked, if I remember correctly, in the grand scheme of things.

hada

on second thoughts, you might look at LSE which might offer an even better choice than Warwick.

They've open registration deadline on a first come first serve basis. They're basically one of the top unis in the world for economics and socal sciences. You could combine an LLM with economics, taxation and a few other related modules.

Fees are rather expensive (9000sterling) but you could take advantage of the current exchange rate and get in quick.

You'd need a 1.1 or a very high 2.1 though.

Duffman

johnfás wrote: »

It is not as if it is going to get me a job, as I already have that, but presumably it would help me greatly with future career advancement.

Only do an LLM if you are genuinely interested in further academic study. To be perfectly honest it's unlikely to make the slightest bit of difference to your career in a commercial law firm. It's important to be aware of this because you don't want to do a masters for the wrong reasons. Your firm really won't be impressed by it I'm afraid. An LLM would be for yourself, not your career or firm. Pick the course that you think will interest you the most because nothing you do will be directly relevant to practice.

Don't do the UCD or TCD LLMs. The LSE, or any of the other London LLM programmes don't require a first or even a particularly good 2.1 as suggested above.

r14

Duffman wrote: »

Don't do the UCD or TCD LLMs. The LSE, or any of the other London LLM programmes don't require a first or even a particularly good 2.1 as suggested above.

I'm doing the LLM in TCD and I don't know why anyone would warn you off it. It's great fun and very interesting. Only do an LLM if you are really interested in the law and want to go really in depth in particular areas. Undergrad is like an overview where you have to learn everything but I've found the lecturers on the LLM focus on minor points and leave you to read about the broad strokes of the law yourself.

I'm really enjoying myself and the year out before work is a great time to sample different areas and see what interests you before you start training.

Also I've heard of people getting into London colleges with not particularly impressive results so don't let that put you off.

newby09

dats_right wrote: »

I concur wholewheartedly with this advice. A masterss degree will not in anyway benefit your career, if you want to do one for your own sake well then go for it, but don't do so thinking that it will have any significance on your cv because it's about as important as having a part-time job as a paper-boy when you were 14 on said cv!

That's pure rubbish!! How is a masters not beneficial to ones career?? I agree that it probably won't be for the OP, as the practical experience is more important but for the majority of people who don't have a TC then there is little else more beneficial than a masters (except hands on experience with a good solicitor) to get you in the right direction.

If a masters didn't hold any significance with firms then why do so many go on to do one, they can't all be interested in academics? From my experience, most of the interview candidates I have spoken to were either in the middle of, or finished a postgrad.

I'm not doing a masters at the moment but I'm considering it as an option - not because I want to do another years study, far from it, but because I'm interested in the area on offer and it's unlikely that I can get any practical work at this stage so I don't see the point in getting sidetracked for a year. Even if I was to take it easy and just get the FE1's done wouldn't help that much as most get a training contract before they have all of them completed.

OP, I would probably travel for the year since you have already got the training aspect sorted and you will be working hard enough so take a break

Sangre

newby09 wrote: »

That's pure rubbish!! How is a masters not beneficial to ones career?? I agree that it probably won't be for the OP, as the practical experience is more important but for the majority of people who don't have a TC then there is little else more beneficial than a masters (except hands on experience with a good solicitor) to get you in the right direction.

I would imagine most of the advice here is based on the fact the OP does have a TC. Doing either of either those would be of no benefit to his career, he won't be fast tracked in the firm because of it. He would be much better off getting some life experience or just having some fun.

I did the LLM in Trinity. Its actually a joke how easy it is. However, I have no doubt about the high result/position I got helped me secure an almost automatic interview in most firms. A masters gives you an extra year to get good results and beef out your CV in other ways. To think it broadens your legal horizons, even though you want to go straight to a commercial firm where you'll forget it in a year, is a bit naive.

Duffman

Sangre wrote: »

I would imagine most of the advice here is based on the fact the OP does have a TC. Doing either of either those would be of no benefit to his career, he won't be fast tracked in the firm because of it. He would be much better off getting some life experience or just having some fun.

I did the LLM in Trinity. Its actually a joke how easy it is. However, I have no doubt about the high result/position I got helped me secure an almost automatic interview in most firms. A masters gives you an extra year to get good results and beef out your CV in other ways. To think it broadens your legal horizons, even though you want to go straight to a commercial firm where you'll forget it in a year, is a bit naive.

What Sangre said. Thread was about OP's situation. Good postgrad results could help someone who wouldn't otherwise get a TC but once you have one it will make practically no difference to professional experience.

In fact, if you are a good candidate for a TC anyway, firms will often question your motives for further study. It's totally counterintuitive but doing a masters can even be viewed as a negative thing by firms in the UK/Ireland. In the rest of Europe it's very definitely useful. Silly really.

newby09

Sangre wrote: »

I would imagine most of the advice here is based on the fact the OP does have a TC. Doing either of either those would be of no benefit to his career, he won't be fast tracked in the firm because of it. He would be much better off getting some life experience or just having some fun.

I did the LLM in Trinity. Its actually a joke how easy it is. However, I have no doubt about the high result/position I got helped me secure an almost automatic interview in most firms. A masters gives you an extra year to get good results and beef out your CV in other ways. To think it broadens your legal horizons, even though you want to go straight to a commercial firm where you'll forget it in a year, is a bit naive.

I agree that it will be of no help to get fast tracked in a firm. As I said earlier there is no better substitute to practical experience. I was just trying to make the point that a masters would help you get an interview and therefore help you get your career started. OP has already started his career so no need.

I'm not thinking of doing a masters to broaden my legal horizons, (I have an interest in the area - otherwise I wouldnt be able to stomach it), but to do something productive to help get my career started with a firm. Am I being naive?? I can get work with a solicitor but he does mainly criminal stuff and has a small practice. I just feel that it might be taking a step in the wrong direction, maybe not in terms of summer work but in terms of a training contract. If I just take the easy option I might never get into a big firm that practices in areas I have an interest in.

Just on the TCD masters....is it easy? is it respected or do the big firms know its a joke? how many hours/subjects do you do each semester? Any advice on the issue would be much appreciated as TCD is an option for me. However, the feedback from a few hasn't been great but that may have been just small talk as I never really got into the issue...