networking a small office

davelerave

I'm going to 1st fix for an office .6 workstations with internet and phone at each
with an eircom router and an eircom master socket in situ .Should i loop the phone wire into each phone point as normal for the phones.For the internet/network do i run a cat5 back from each workstation to a point beside the router,is there a box for this?is cat 5 ok(i have tons of it)thanks, if theres a link also

JohnnieM

Dont loop it what ever you do...Run individual cat 5 for each phone and pc point and at maybe at a couple of strategic positions run extra cat 5. I personally always do a min of two but every couple of positions I might do 4 .. this would allow for .. pc, phone, second phone, fax, ip phone , network printer . visa terminal ..It goes on and on...

davelerave

ok i've done something similar before.a seperate cat5 to each phone and network socket in the office (12 to 14 cables total),all back to one location close to the router yes? .is there a bare panel i can fit flush or surface ? or should i just bundle them up.the router is a distance from the eircom master socket i presume a cat 5 to this as well?thanks

davelerave

maybe someone can advise me further thanks

FusionNet

No offence to your experience but why are you doing this if your not a 100% familiar with what to do? It may seem really simple to do all this but to do it right costs thousands of euro in Kit?

Can you tell us what tools you have at your dispossal and what your experience/backround is in computers and telco? This will give us an idea of who detailed a response needs to be..

davelerave

No offence taken ive little or no networking experience .6 desks with internet networked and phone each and an eircom master socket and eircom broadband do i run 2 cat 5s to each desk and one bak to the eircom socket .13 cat 5s bundled together? At the where the router is going

java

Seriously mate its worth spending money on getting a data/telco expert in to scope requirements for you. Its difficult to give you an answer when we don't visbility of floor plan, layouts etc. Tackling a job like that with little or no experience is bound to cause you headaches and further questions than can't easily answered on boards. 6 pc's may not sound like a big job, but it is for novice!

rmacm

I agree with FusionNet and java......you really need to scope out the requirements of your customer properly (it can be a gigantic pain in the arse if you don't although I work on a scale bigger than your average home/office network I know what kind of grief you can get if you don't have a full picture of customer requirements).

If you have more information as FusionNet asked for it would be helpful in giving a more detailed answer.

davelerave

rmacm wrote: »

I agree with FusionNet and java......you really need to scope out the requirements of your customer properly (it can be a gigantic pain in the arse if you don't although I work on a scale bigger than your average home/office network I know what kind of grief you can get if you don't have a full picture of customer requirements).

If you have more information as FusionNet asked for it would be helpful in giving a more detailed answer.

no problem i wanted to lay a few cables in my new office ,i won't be doing the final connections. i presume i run 2 cat 5s from each desk back to a common point and a cable from this common point to eircom master socket.a link might be handy that i can look at .thanks

NullZer0

2 CAT5's (no longer than 85m) from each desk back to a central closet (switch - presumably near the router). I'd drop a few extra CAT'5 cables somewhere too.

Its not rocket science and you can't really go wrong.

fade2che

To be honest 2 cat5 only seems to meet current requirements. What if they decide to stick 2 people at one desk briefly? Then you need 4. Also what kind of company is it? If its IT based its likely that more than one connection could be required at some of the points.

Without further info, 2 cat5s meet current requirements, so best to go with min of 3 (maybe 4) cat5s from each point to a central switch to allow for expansion, plus a couple of extra strategic points too.

Good luck with it.

NullZer0

fade2che wrote: »

To be honest 2 cat5 only seems to meet current requirements. What if they decide to stick 2 people at one desk briefly? Then you need 4. Also what kind of company is it? If its IT based its likely that more than one connection could be required at some of the points.

Without further info, 2 cat5s meet current requirements, so best to go with min of 3 (maybe 4) cat5s from each point to a central switch to allow for expansion, plus a couple of extra strategic points too.

Good luck with it.

yes but I am assuming this is his own office?

One would imagine he knows what he wants... its rather confusing because this is usually a simple task as you know.


iRock

FusionNet

Irock,

This is a simple process to you and me and whoever does data cabling but for a newbie it can be a big deal. To be honest this debate is neither here nor there to be honest. Yes most of us would say 4 points per desk and then another couple of random 2 points around the office but we have no idea if he's terminating on a patch panel or not? And for the record the lenghts can be no longer than 90m not 85m..!! But get this and being a nerd I find this very interesting, according to the regs, 90m is your limit at 20 degress celcius, but if the temp goes up to 60degrees you have to reduce your maximum distance to 83m..

Anyways sorry for going off topic. For this install I would puill min of 2 max of 4 to each of your desks back to one central point. Leave plenty of cable at the patch panel end and mark them. I would personally put all the telco and data on the cat5e, let your intaller worry about looping the telco. Though for the sake of 395 euro Id lash in a PBX.

drunkmonkey

Guys I need to do something similar but maybe not on such a large scale...

I've 2 eircom lines coming in (just the bog standard eircom points), I'm using one line for phone & broadband, and one dedicated for visa machine.
This is all in the front...
I need to set up the back office, I only need 3 phones in the back but all 4 phones must be able to transfer to each other and have there own voicemail, if they could all have there own number that would be great but I presume i'd need to rent another 3 lines from eircom which I don't want to do just yet...

What i'm thinking is to just run one rj45 cable from my standard eircom router to the back office (15 Meters) and one phone line out the back as well, from there i'm going to feed the rj45 into a spare router I have and run any network points (3) I need from that.....Not best pratice but I think it'll work?
But how would I go abut setting up the phone system.... I have an old pentium 3 optiplex sitting around could I use that as some kind of internal phone exchange, sorry clueless and i'm doing it myself for myself...

FusionNet

Hi Drunk Monkey

What you really need is an ISDN line with DDI's. This would give you indivual numbers you would assign to each handset. You would also need a Digital PBX with Voicemail. Though this stuff is much cheaper than it used to be it would still cost to do it right.

Ill post more info later Im just a bit caught for time right now. I can give you a rough idea what a proper system would cost if you like, least you'll know the worst case scenario.

drunkmonkey

FusionNet wrote: »

What you really need is an ISDN line with DDI's. This would give you indivual numbers you would assign to each handset. You would also need a Digital PBX with Voicemail. Though this stuff is much cheaper than it used to be it would still cost to do it right.

thanks Fusion,

better call eircom and check how much an isdn line would cost with DDI's, I think i'd also need (limited budget willing)some kind of an IVR....
the eircom package I have has free calls to landlines but I could be making a lot of mobile calls, is there a way of integrating mobile lines, so let's say I could have free vodafone calls for €20pm top up from the fixed handsets..

the more you think about it the more complex it gets:rolleyes:

Ah-Watch

drunkmonkey wrote: »

so let's say I could have free vodafone calls for €20pm top up from the fixed handsets..:rolleyes:

What I have in place is a Wireless Office Plan from Vodafone, with a Jabletron(not certain if thats correct) phone(looks like a house phone but it uses a SIM card) and I use that to ring all mobile phones slashing the bill from eircom. I took a simple number to remember and have that for all mobile calls and then have the landline for local and national calls... Very impressed by it now to be honest... Mightn't be exactly what you want but its a start:L

drunkmonkey

thanks Ah Watch...I have my mobile bill anyway so it would make sense to use my own sim for mobile calls and free calls to landlines from the eircom line...so far so good....

is this the kind of phone...

http://www.jablocom.com/products-gdp-02.php

I still need that IVR and DD's, wonder what fusion will come up with....

Ah-Watch

drunkmonkey wrote: »

thanks Ah Watch...I have my mobile bill anyway so it would make sense to use my own sim for mobile calls and free calls to landlines from the eircom line...so far so good....

is this the kind of phone...

http://www.jablocom.com/products-gdp-02.php

I still need that IVR and DD's, wonder what fusion will come up with....

http://www.jablocom.com/products-gdp-04.php is what we are using. perfect! Thats what we use for mobiles anyway... not sure what fusion will come up with but good luck with it:)

rmacm

FusionNet wrote: »

Hi Drunk Monkey

What you really need is an ISDN line with DDI's. This would give you indivual numbers you would assign to each handset. You would also need a Digital PBX with Voicemail. Though this stuff is much cheaper than it used to be it would still cost to do it right.

Ill post more info later Im just a bit caught for time right now. I can give you a rough idea what a proper system would cost if you like, least you'll know the worst case scenario.

Like FusionNet says an ISDN line with DDI's should meet your requirements. Depending on what you need a BRA or PRA (it's a bad sign when you start using device names from an AXE to name basic/primary rate ISDN lines).

For mobile you might well be better sticking with a mobile provider and availing of one their packages for cheap calls.

FusionNet

I also agree with Rmacm. What I would do in the situation you have now outlined is as follows.

Get a BRI ISDN line, its got two numbers as standard and then order the DDI's. That'll give you another 10 I think. Eircom offer DDI's for free and an ISDN line is cheaper than two analogue lines.

For the mobile calls you have two options. One is get a mobile office mobile and have it as a floating handset around the office or get a mobile gateway and attach it to the analoghue port on your Digital PBX. You will then be able to select a specific line for mobile calls or set up least cost routing so the PBX does it automatically. Remember though that with mobile porting I may have an 087 number but could be with meteor. This call will then not be free and sometimes can be charged at a higher rate depending on the connect deals between vodafone, meteor etc.

Now on the IVR I prsume you mean a call answering system that directs traffic. this can be done in several ways also. The cheap way is to use your voicemail system to direct people to departments, users etc. Our VM does this and also offers call screening. On a bigger scale you would require a dedicated unit as on the VM (voicemail) it can only handle 4 to 8 ports at a time.

Also with a Digital set up, we use Toshiba and are the Authorised Partner down my way, you will have the obvious functions like phones books, caller ID, a large range of phones but these systems are also VOIP capable so you can upgrade in future when that becomes a stable option. For more info check this site out: http://telecoms.toshiba.co.uk/

Ive used a good few systems over the years but find these the best for back up, looks, functions, price and scaleability. The RRP is on the site as well so that might help you work out a budget but as I say I have no problem provideing you guide pricing so at least you know what to expect. Depending on where you are Im sure you will have plenty of installers near you with dozens of options..

On pricing in the past I have at RRP beaten most providers except Eircom because they heavily discount that department.

Hope this helps. Oh by the way I can also advise you on business telephone rates that beat the socks off Eircom!!

davelerave

thanks for the advice.got the basic info i needed .thanks

drunkmonkey

FusionNet wrote: »

I also agree with Rmacm. What I would do in the situation you have now outlined is as follows.

Get a BRI ISDN line, its got two numbers as standard and then order the DDI's. That'll give you another 10 I think. Eircom offer DDI's for free and an ISDN line is cheaper than two analogue lines.

On pricing in the past I have at RRP beaten most providers except Eircom because they heavily discount that department.

Hope this helps. Oh by the way I can also advise you on business telephone rates that beat the socks off Eircom!!

Thanks Fusion, calling eircom about the BRI ISDN tomorrow...

Cheated running the RJ45, use a pair of home plug adapters instead..:)

FusionNet

Grrr Home Plug Adaptors my nemisis.....

mrgaa1

you can use one CAT5 cable to service network and phone. For the network you use 2 pairs and for the phone you use one pair - the phone pair is the blue and blue/white. In this one cable does both. You can buy a crimping tool and make your own connections - just ensure that you cut the wires evenly and that they are all pushed fully inside the RJ45 plug. Personally, I'd run the cables back to a central hub for the network and run another cable for phone. You should find that some electricians will have mountains of this cable available - don't buy the drop leads in shops as they charge a fortune for something so cheap. There are loads of websites out there on how to wire your own office, home etc... no point paying some outfit to drop in some cables for you and charge a fortune. Do some research and if you can do it yourself. If you are keeping your office connected to the internet permanently ensure that your PC's have up to date virus protection and check your broadband provider about firewall protection - either with them or in your own broadband router.

davelerave

i want to run some cat5s back to a central location in my house close to the main eircom socket( for the house) .should i run 2 cat 5s back for network and phone or should i do the phones in the normal way with 3-pair cable in aradial circuit .also i want to link the house network to the office network .i assume a cat5e will do for this. it's about 40 meters way?thanks

FusionNet

mrgaa1 wrote: »

you can use one CAT5 cable to service network and phone. For the network you use 2 pairs and for the phone you use one pair - the phone pair is the blue and blue/white. In this one cable does both. You can buy a crimping tool and make your own connections - just ensure that you cut the wires evenly and that they are all pushed fully inside the RJ45 plug. Personally, I'd run the cables back to a central hub for the network and run another cable for phone. You should find that some electricians will have mountains of this cable available - don't buy the drop leads in shops as they charge a fortune for something so cheap. There are loads of websites out there on how to wire your own office, home etc... no point paying some outfit to drop in some cables for you and charge a fortune. Do some research and if you can do it yourself. If you are keeping your office connected to the internet permanently ensure that your PC's have up to date virus protection and check your broadband provider about firewall protection - either with them or in your own broadband router.

The reason some "outfit" in other words us professionals who do it for a living charge what we do is for the following reasons:

1)We are trained (which costs thousands)
2)We are trained by a specific vendor so we can guarantee the product for 25 yrs
3)We have public and product liability (mine is up to 6.5million)
4)We have the right tools for the job and have safe pass etc done
5)We certify the network which lets you know that the network will perform to the spec you ordered, if it doesnt we need to replace it or fix it till it does at our expence
6)Some of the tools we need to do this job cost up to 10grand a piece
7)We are liable to be sued for millions if we do not certify the network as if the network fails and your company loses money, if you find out the cable was the fault then its our fault.
8)We do it right..

I dont mean to be a crank about this but giving advice to wire a network and phone by splitting the cables is bull. You are in one point correct but just to let you know in case your not aware, some phone especially digital or pbx phones can use up to 4 pairs, networks cat6 for example use 4 pairs. I am aware people are trying to save money in these times but for small networks companies like ours dont charge a lot, we charge a fair price for a fair job!

I do agree with you on one point and that is to buy your patch leads on a website. I obviously know what they cost and I put a modest mark up on them for stocking etc but I've seen patch cables costing 10 euro that should cost no more than 2 euro!!

By the way, I have been called to many jobs to do it right after someone in the office gave it a go. It is not always as easy as it seems, for example have you ever hit a water main whuile drilling a hole? Expensive mistake if you do it without insurance!!!

java

I agree fully with Eoghan. Its well worth paying a professional to do a professional job. Cleaning up someone elses mess can cost lots of money in the long term. I know from experience. Bad cabling can lead to all sorts of problems, latency is one of them. If you rely on broadband for your business then not having a professional cabling job in place is a big gamble.

davelerave

FusionNet wrote: »

The reason some "outfit" in other words us professionals who do it for a living charge what we do is for the following reasons:

1)We are trained (which costs thousands)
2)We are trained by a specific vendor so we can guarantee the product for 25 yrs
3)We have public and product liability (mine is up to 6.5million)
4)We have the right tools for the job and have safe pass etc done
5)We certify the network which lets you know that the network will perform to the spec you ordered, if it doesnt we need to replace it or fix it till it does at our expence
6)Some of the tools we need to do this job cost up to 10grand a piece
7)We are liable to be sued for millions if we do not certify the network as if the network fails and your company loses money, if you find out the cable was the fault then its our fault.
8)We do it right..

I dont mean to be a crank about this but giving advice to wire a network and phone by splitting the cables is bull. You are in one point correct but just to let you know in case your not aware, some phone especially digital or pbx phones can use up to 4 pairs, networks cat6 for example use 4 pairs. I am aware people are trying to save money in these times but for small networks companies like ours dont charge a lot, we charge a fair price for a fair job!

I do agree with you on one point and that is to buy your patch leads on a website. I obviously know what they cost and I put a modest mark up on them for stocking etc but I've seen patch cables costing 10 euro that should cost no more than 2 euro!!

By the way, I have been called to many jobs to do it right after someone in the office gave it a go. It is not always as easy as it seems, for example have you ever hit a water main whuile drilling a hole? Expensive mistake if you do it without insurance!!!

maybe you could help with my question above regarding the merits of running cat 5s for domestic phone points back to a panel (the same way as the network points) or the usual 3-pair phone wire system wired radially .mucho gracias.

FusionNet

Sorry Dave,

I missed that in my giving out session!! I'd run a seperate cable for network and phone. If for no other reason but flexability. I always tend to run a minimum of 50% extra cabling as it always says my customer in the long run. Though thinking about it here now, Im am in theory shooting myself in the foot as I drop revenue but I do have fantastically happy clients!!

40m is no bother dave..

davelerave

FusionNet wrote: »

Sorry Dave,

I missed that in my giving out session!! I'd run a seperate cable for network and phone. If for no other reason but flexability. I always tend to run a minimum of 50% extra cabling as it always says my customer in the long run. Though thinking about it here now, Im am in theory shooting myself in the foot as I drop revenue but I do have fantastically happy clients!!

40m is no bother dave..

ok thats what i thought .i'd be better to do the house phones in seperate cat5s
the same as the network points for flexibility .link the house and office networks with a cat5( they have their own phone lines )

Gadgetman496

In a school we have a spare room with one (working) RJ45 socket for a Broadband connection which is cabled 30m Approx back to an eircom router.

We were hoping to use the room at some stage as a computer room with maybe 10 - 12 PC's.

I was advised that we could install a 16 port switch in that room connected to the existing RJ45 cable & use it to feed the 10 - 12 PC's.

Does that sound right?

So we would need to install a switch and run cable to three rows of benches each of which would have 4 PC's. The room itself is about 25' X 30'.

There would be no requirements for phones.

Can anyone give a really rough estimate on what we should expect something like that to cost if we got a professional to install it?

-

FusionNet

gadgetman496 wrote: »

In a school we have a spare room with one (working) RJ45 socket for a Broadband connection which is cabled 30m Approx back to an eircom router.

We were hoping to use the room at some stage as a computer room with maybe 10 - 12 PC's.

I was advised that we could install a 16 port switch in that room connected to the existing RJ45 cable & use it to feed the 10 - 12 PC's.

Does that sound right?

So we would need to install a switch and run cable to three rows of benches each of which would have 4 PC's. The room itself is about 25' X 30'.

There would be no requirements for phones.

Can anyone give a really rough estimate on what we should expect something like that to cost if we got a professional to install it?

-

To do it right would take the following and this would be using the best Cat5e Modules on the market and the best small comms cabinet. Including a switch and testing and certifying equipment you would be looking at around 600 before install. Install could be easy or hard depending on room but for the top of the range cable and hardware 600+ should see you. I always believe in quoting for the best equipment as that way the price can only go down if you want. I use datarack cabinets, Panduit networking and transend for basic switches.

does that help?

mrgaa1

gadgetman496 wrote: »

In a school we have a spare room with one (working) RJ45 socket for a Broadband connection which is cabled 30m Approx back to an eircom router.

We were hoping to use the room at some stage as a computer room with maybe 10 - 12 PC's.

I was advised that we could install a 16 port switch in that room connected to the existing RJ45 cable & use it to feed the 10 - 12 PC's.

Does that sound right?

So we would need to install a switch and run cable to three rows of benches each of which would have 4 PC's. The room itself is about 25' X 30'.

There would be no requirements for phones.

Can anyone give a really rough estimate on what we should expect something like that to cost if we got a professional to install it?

-

You are indeed correct. You don't actually need a switch unless you want to manage each port. A 16-port hub is more than ample - get them on EBAY for 30-40 euro. Then you can make and run your own cables to each PC directly. The hub can sit on a desk or something like that. No need for racks, cabinets etc... as they are a waste of time for something so small. Ensure you get two hubs in case the first one breaks down. Cables - just google on how to make cables and buy the tester and tools to make your cables. It should take a few hours to do it all.

Gadgetman496

FusionNet wrote: »

To do it right would take the following and this would be using the best Cat5e Modules on the market and the best small comms cabinet. Including a switch and testing and certifying equipment you would be looking at around 600 before install. Install could be easy or hard depending on room but for the top of the range cable and hardware 600+ should see you. I always believe in quoting for the best equipment as that way the price can only go down if you want. I use datarack cabinets, Panduit networking and transend for basic switches.

does that help?

Thanks for the reply FusionNet.

When you say Cat5e Modules are you just referring to all the equipment or is a module a piece of equipment itself?

So a ball park figure of €600 would be for all the equipment only right?

Because there is one Broadband connection already in the room there would be no need to cable to the room? so all the work would be in the room itself.

We would need to run 3 sets of 4 (12 total) Cat5e cables of about 25' each (the run would be about 16' so I'm allowing slack to reach the PC plus one run from the existing RJ45 socket to the switch? which is about 20' so we would need about 320' of cable. I'm thinking a direct run from the switch to the PC's to eliminate the cost of 12 RJ45 sockets & labour, would that be OK?

Then we would also need the plugs for each end of the cables (26 plugs) and of course the switch too which would go on the wall or into a cabinet as you suggested (might be safer). We would need some trunking or what ever you call it to carry the wire too.

Would that Info be enough for you to really roughly estimate the labour cost?

I know it would be a real rough guess but it's just that trying to get a budget might be easier if we had an idea at least as to the overall cost.

-

Gadgetman496

mrgaa1 wrote: »

You are indeed correct. You don't actually need a switch unless you want to manage each port. A 16-port hub is more than ample - get them on EBAY for 30-40 euro. Then you can make and run your own cables to each PC directly. The hub can sit on a desk or something like that. No need for racks, cabinets etc... as they are a waste of time for something so small. Ensure you get two hubs in case the first one breaks down. Cables - just google on how to make cables and buy the tester and tools to make your cables. It should take a few hours to do it all.

Thanks for the reply too mrgaa1.

Can you tell me what the difference is between a switch & a hub? Sorry for being pure stupid but what do each of them do & what is the advantages & drawbacks of one over the other?

You make this all sound sort of straight forward, I'd nearly have a go myself but I'd more than likely end up networked to Air Force One or the PC's wold go into melt down

-

mrgaa1

A hub is typically the least expensive, least intelligent, and least complicated of the three. Its job is very simple: anything that comes in one port is sent out to the others. That's it. Every computer connected to the hub "sees" everything that every other computer on the hub sees. The hub itself is blissfully ignorant of the data being transmitted. For years, simple hubs have been quick and easy ways to connect computers in small networks.
A switch does essentially what a hub does but more efficiently. By paying attention to the traffic that comes across it, it can "learn" where particular addresses are. For example, if it sees traffic from machine A coming in on port 2, it now knows that machine A is connected to that port and that traffic to machine A needs to only be sent to that port and not any of the others. The net result of using a switch over a hub is that most of the network traffic only goes where it needs to rather than to every port. On busy networks this can make the network significantly faster.

I would say a hub is more or less what you need and they are cheaper. Ensure the hub is 100m/bit to each port.
There are plenty of articles on the NET - http://www.pcnineoneone.com/howto/hmnetwk1.html is one. You want to make yours as simple as possible.

There are other items to think off - where does the new PC's get their IP address's from ? and how will they route to the internet ? The broadband connection to this room comes from what sort of device ? If its from an eircom router or such device you will have to ensure that the connection into the hub is put into the CROSS'd port or use a crossover cable.

Gadgetman496

Yes, the connection in the room is coming from an eircom router.

So for a hub the cable would need to be crossed?

If a switch is used would the cable be a standard one?

-

accensi0n

gadgetman496 wrote: »

Yes, the connection in the room is coming from an eircom router.

So for a hub the cable would need to be crossed?

If a switch is used would the cable be a standard one?

-

Definately get a switch and not a hub.

And yes, you would connect a switch port to a router interface using a standard patch/straight-through cable.

Gadgetman496

accensi0n wrote: »

Definately get a switch and not a hub.

And yes, you would connect a switch port to a router interface using a standard patch/straight-through cable.

Cheers accensi0n.

Not that I know much about this but from what you & mrgaa1 are saying, the switch is more intelligent & if the price difference is not too drastic I'd lean towards the switch too. If I understand correctly the switch seems to take care of all the negotiation? (if that's a right term) so it would make for less confusion in the network or at least be faster as pointed out.

Can I take it too that there would be nothing more difficult in physically connecting the switch as opposed to the hub? (aside from the extra bit of cost I mean)


-

rmacm

mrgaa1 wrote: »

You are indeed correct. You don't actually need a switch unless you want to manage each port. A 16-port hub is more than ample - get them on EBAY for 30-40 euro.

TBH hubs are obsolete why bother with them when hubs provide you with so much better performance for a cheap enough price.

accensi0n wrote: »

Definately get a switch and not a hub.

And yes, you would connect a switch port to a router interface using a standard patch/straight-through cable.

Agreed most definitely buy a switch and not a hub. You use a straight through cable to connect the router to the switch.

Alun

Yeah, that info mrgaa1 gave was seriously out of date. You'd be hard pushed to actually buy a hub these days, even if you wanted to. The basic hardware (chipsets) needed to build simple, unmamaged switches has come down so much in price that you can get a 16-port switch for no money at all. See http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=319250 for example. Also practically all switches do what is called auto mdix switching http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-MDIX which means it doesn't matter whether you use a straight through or crossover cable.

FusionNet

Ok, Im not sure if MRGAA1 is in the business or not but my sdvice comes from doing this for a living. I dont make my own cables, I dont crimp cat5 leads and I certainly dont use hubs. I havent used a hub since 1999 and to be honest not one of my trade suppliers stock hubs anymore.

I install cabinets as it stops people who dont know what there doing messing with the equipment. I use dataracks busicause of health and safety reasons and becuse they are the best. I use panduit cause they are the best and I use Transend becuase for the money you cant beat them.

The estimate I gave you was for the following:

24 Cat5e modules
6 x faceplates
6 x MK Backboxes
1 x 24 port blank panel
1 x 6U dataracks cabinet
1 x Transend 10/100 switch
24 x Pre tested certified patch cords
1 x Fluke Certification

I personally refuse the "slap it on the counter and make some leads yourself jobs" as thats not what Im about. We install and certify data networks for all types of businesses but its done right and we give the back up after.

Im all for people expanding their mind and doing this stuff themselves but advise that MRGAA1 is totally incorrect. If anyone likes I can email them pics of premises we have been on where other people attempted to install systems and then we went in and did it right, if it wasnt so serious and expensive it'd be funny..

This would be installed in as a star network, in other words all cables run from each group of desks withing Conduit back to a locked cabinet where your network would be terminated and connected to your switch. It is not the cheapest way by far but it is the industry standard way to do it.

On the module the following is a link to what a module is:
http://www.panduit.com/Products/ProductOverviews/ProductSearch/index.htm?Ne=1&lastNodeId=ss_prod_coppersolutions&sid=11F4AB79A1A5&N=5000001%201874+3000137&recName=CJ5E88TGAW

You terminate the cable in a module then you snap it into a patch panel frame in your cabinet and on the other end at the desk it snaps into a faceplate which then secured on a plastic back box.

If you need more info please let me know.

Thanks

Gadgetman496

Well then it's Defo going to be a switch.

So, FusionNet, do you terminate the module to the Cat5e cable & then use ready made leads to connect from the PC to the module? (which is in like a RJ45 socket with back-plate) and the other end is in the cabinet snapped onto a faceplate which you then use another patch lead to go from that to the switch?)

I'd love to see some of the pictures you mentioned so if you can will you wing them onto gadgetman496@gmail.com.

Thanks.

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FusionNet

Hi Gadgetman,

Yas Ill mail you a selection of pictures of how not to do it and how actually do it. Then Ill send you a PDF giving you a drawing of a typical network and Ill also make up a demo network scenario and take pics of that too. Hope that will help. I can imagine if you havent seen this stuff before some of what we are talking about must be gobbledgook!!!

It'll be tommorow before I can put all that together for you I hope thats ok?

If you have or anyone else has any other question please fire away, advise is free...

Gadgetman496

FusionNet wrote: »

Hi Gadgetman,

Yas Ill mail you a selection of pictures of how not to do it and how actually do it. Then Ill send you a PDF giving you a drawing of a typical network and Ill also make up a demo network scenario and take pics of that too. Hope that will help. I can imagine if you havent seen this stuff before some of what we are talking about must be gobbledgook!!!

It'll be tommorow before I can put all that together for you I hope thats ok?

If you have or anyone else has any other question please fire away, advise is free...

That would be fantastic FusionNet & I really appreciate you efforts to help me understand this better. You all have been extremely helpful so thanks to everyone who contributed their advice & thoughts so far

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mrgaa1

just a bit of background - worked in IT for over 15 years. Started of supporting PC's, Windows 3.1 etc... and worked my way through to developing networks, rolling out email systems, finance systems, expanding networks across Europe and then into the rest of the world: was at the start of the roll-out of broadband in UK and ended up being head-hunted for many years to sort out networking and system issues in FTSE 100 companies. So I think my experience should be OK.
I was just pointing out that instead of spending 100's & 100's of valuable euros on something it can be easier to do it yourself. Its very easy to make a cable - in fact my 10yr-old daughter makes them for fun and they are correct every time.
BTW go to EBAY.IE and type in 16-port HUB. Unless EBAY is in a timewarp hubs are available.
There is nothing wrong with the spec that has been given and given the choice I too would select a switch - if money is tight a simple HUB suffices. Its all down to budget. Small budget small job - bigger budget get lots of quotes and learn from it. Its surprisingly easy to put a cable together and to learn how a network is put together. In all cases the simpler the better - easier to maintain, troubleshoot and expand.

FusionNet

mrgaa1

It is also very easy to wash your car, a bucket, some water and a sponge that doesnt stop there being 20 car washes in a town. Firstly ebay sells a lot of rubbish so that argument is silly. If you were in the IT game then you would have had communications with suppliers? I can not buy a hub if I wanted to. the ones on ebay are old stock that never sold years ago. Ill tell you a quick story about ebay everyone.

A client of mine got his son to order a NIC on ebay, it was a branded realtek 10/100 network card. He bought it for 2.50 euro and 2.50 euro to post it. He spent 5 hours trying to get it to work, he messed up the network and called me to see if I could sort it.

I called in, within an hour re-did all the IP's on the network, replaced his NIC with one of my 20 euro Intel ones, network up and working faster than ever. Not every bit of IT equipment on ebay is good quality.

When it comes to buying hardware either buy local or off a site that will offer swap outs for faulty gear.

I dont disagree with you about making cables, Im sure your daughter would put many network engineers to same, I just personally have a policy in my business that noone makes a cable ever. I supply only certified patch cables and certified networks. And just so people are aware, we do small jobs as well and try our best to look after people. We're not all out to get people. My hourly rates have not increased in 6 years, I think thats fair..

On your point about simplicity, I think you'd agree that the network I suggested would be the simplest to maintain, it is only in millions of offices around the world. And as I have said before I encourage anyone to try something, but like a mechanic, I can do a lot of repairs on my car but certain things I just hand over so its done right.

JohnnieM

Well said ...