Gardai at private events - concerts. horseracing etc.

BrianD

I know that at large public events held on private property e.g. GAA matches at Croke Park, horse racing and music concerts that a Garda force is required but inside and outside the event to maintain public order and safety. As I understand it the event promoter foots the bill for the Gardai "inside" the event.

What really amazes me that on the last two occasions that I have been horseracing - Leopardstown and Punchestown - is the large number of Gardai that are simply directing traffic in car parks. While the event promoter pays foots the bill is it not an incredible waste of public resources to have Gardai doing the work of car park attendents. This is the work of a private event company and not trained law enforcement officials. Ironically, at Punchestown for the national hunt festival, I saw few Gardai directing traffic on the country roads outside, 5 on the main avenue from the front gate to the turnstiles. When I got to the turnstyles there was an assortment of beggars, ticket touts and hawkers working away with impunity. At the same time there is an announcement of the PA warning patrons to be aware of pickpockets. No policing here because they are too busy being car park attendents!

Any reason for this poor allocation of personnel resources?

source

BrianD wrote: »

I know that at large public events held on private property e.g. GAA matches at Croke Park, horse racing and music concerts that a Garda force is required but inside and outside the event to maintain public order and safety. As I understand it the event promoter foots the bill for the Gardai "inside" the event.

What really amazes me that on the last two occasions that I have been horseracing - Leopardstown and Punchestown - is the large number of Gardai that are simply directing traffic in car parks. While the event promoter pays foots the bill is it not an incredible waste of public resources to have Gardai doing the work of car park attendents. This is the work of a private event company and not trained law enforcement officials. Ironically, at Punchestown for the national hunt festival, I saw few Gardai directing traffic on the country roads outside, 5 on the main avenue from the front gate to the turnstiles. When I got to the turnstyles there was an assortment of beggars, ticket touts and hawkers working away with impunity. At the same time there is an announcement of the PA warning patrons to be aware of pickpockets. No policing here because they are too busy being car park attendents!

Any reason for this poor allocation of personnel resources?

Any Gardai working at these events are off duty and will have volunteered their spare time to work at these events therefore not impacting on resources of the regular policing units.

brayblue24

foinse wrote: »

Any Gardai working at these events are off duty and will have volunteered their spare time to work at these events therefore not impacting on resources of the regular policing units.

????? Not me, mate

source

brayblue24 wrote: »

????? Not me, mate

really?? Here for the munster matches or indeed any game in the gaelic grounds or thomond park, are done by off duty members.

brayblue24

foinse wrote: »

really?? Here for the munster matches or indeed any game in the gaelic grounds or thomond park, are done by off duty members.

Foinse, I'm really not being smart here but are you serious?

gerire

brayblue24 wrote:

????? Not me, mate

foinse wrote: »

really?? Here for the munster matches or indeed any game in the gaelic grounds or thomond park, are done by off duty members.

Not sure but was brayblue getting confused when you used the word volunteering cause I've no doubt they got paid; But what you are saying it was worked by those who are not rostered during the hours of the event?

source

gerire wrote: »

Not sure but was brayblue getting confused when you used the word volunteering cause I've no doubt they got paid; But what you are saying it was worked by those who are not rostered during the hours of the event?

that's exactly what i'm saying, it's not technically OT because they're being paid by a private body and not the state,

TheNog

BrianD wrote: »

I know that at large public events held on private property e.g. GAA matches at Croke Park, horse racing and music concerts that a Garda force is required but inside and outside the event to maintain public order and safety. As I understand it the event promoter foots the bill for the Gardai "inside" the event.

What really amazes me that on the last two occasions that I have been horseracing - Leopardstown and Punchestown - is the large number of Gardai that are simply directing traffic in car parks. While the event promoter pays foots the bill is it not an incredible waste of public resources to have Gardai doing the work of car park attendents. This is the work of a private event company and not trained law enforcement officials. Ironically, at Punchestown for the national hunt festival, I saw few Gardai directing traffic on the country roads outside, 5 on the main avenue from the front gate to the turnstiles. When I got to the turnstyles there was an assortment of beggars, ticket touts and hawkers working away with impunity. At the same time there is an announcement of the PA warning patrons to be aware of pickpockets. No policing here because they are too busy being car park attendents!

Any reason for this poor allocation of personnel resources?

Any large public event such as Leopardstown there should be a level of policing such as traffic duty etc. Any event I worked out the carpark themselves were done by civilians and we looked after the public roads. The reason for this is because we have powers within the Road Traffic Act to do so but civilians dont. Also just because you see a Garda directing traffic does not necessarily mean we are only doing traffic. We are also looking out for known dealers, pickpockets etc.

As for pickpockets inside at the event, well there would be plain clothes Gardai working on that. No point sending in Gardai wearing hi-viz jackets to catch them, is there? Ticket touts are not committing an offence that I can think of.

foinse wrote: »

Any Gardai working at these events are off duty and will have volunteered their spare time to work at these events therefore not impacting on resources of the regular policing units.

foinse wrote: »

really?? Here for the munster matches or indeed any game in the gaelic grounds or thomond park, are done by off duty members.

foinse wrote: »

that's exactly what i'm saying, it's not technically OT because they're being paid by a private body and not the state,

Any Gardai working at events are actually on the clock and not off duty. Any overtime incurred is paid for by the State which is then refunded by the event organiser

source

Hands up, i wrote the wrong words, what i meant was that it's non rostered work, when you're working one of these details, you're not impacting on the effectiveness of the regular unit working.

I was trying to put it into words that a non member would understand instead of baffling the op with "Gardaspeak" as it's been dubbed.

Whitewater-AGS

foinse wrote: »

Hands up, i wrote the wrong words, what i meant was that it's non rostered work, when you're working one of these details, you're not impacting on the effectiveness of the regular unit working.

I was trying to put it into words that a non member would understand instead of baffling the op with "Gardaspeak" as it's been dubbed.

Cant agree with that last two soccer matches I worked, I was detailed from the regular to attend the matches. So no O/T just sub.

CLADA

What's known officially as "non public duty" is where the organisers of events such as major sporting events meet with Garda management and come to an agreement on the level of policing required "within the event area", usually inside an area where a ticket is required.

The Gardai working on non public duty are then paid an overtime rate by the state as they are members who would normally be off duty that day. The cost of the non public duty is then paid to the state by the event organisers.

In some cases a small number of Gardai are working regular tours at certain events but in general it is non public duty.

djtechnics1210

All member working at Leopardstown at xmas are working, they are all free flow members that are rostered for it..... not OT

eroo

In Thomond Park I see the same Gardai working every match, so they must be rostered and not just a case of 'volunteering'?

eroo

city4life wrote: »

same in turners cross for soccer matches. same team of members every game

And that is the way it should be imo. It allows us to get familiar with, and get to know the Gardai. Makes it easier to deal with problems if/when they arise.

djtechnics1210

Do you do stewarding at the games eroo?
If so, do you find the stewards and gardai work well together or do you think there are ways to improve on it.
The amount of members i know that have had problems with security at concerts is unreal.
I know gaa/rugby matches are a lot different to concerts

CLADA

city4life wrote: »

same in turners cross for soccer matches. same team of members every game

How difficult can it be to police a sporting event where there are more people on the pitch than there are in the stand

djtechnics1210

And sure even if there was trouble in the stand, no one would notice cause all members would watching match with back to crowd.

eroo

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

Do you do stewarding at the games eroo?
If so, do you find the stewards and gardai work well together or do you think there are ways to improve on it.
The amount of members i know that have had problems with security at concerts at croke park is unreal.
I know gaa/rugby matches are a lot different to concerts

Yes I do DJ. As for working together..tbh they are great when it comes to dealing with gougers from the surrounds trying to jump the walls. They also give us a hand if we need to redirect fans, which helps a lot when we are understaffed! However, they could help us stop people getting pitch side, and in subsequently getting them off. In my time there, only 1 Garda has ever gone onto the pitch to help us. That same Garda had helped us out big time earlier when blocking off an entrance and redirecting fans, he was very helpful! It would also help if there were Gardai at the main gates to stop the gougers getting in when everybody is exiting, and subsequently leading us on wild goose chases.

sgthighway

There are certain events that members of the force will jump at.
I can just imagine a typical match in Croke Pk; I'm sure there are loads of Gardai that will roll in behind the likes of Pillar Caffrey to work there.

I have worked at some of these big events and got to dine in the same restricted canteens as the Gardai and there does be nearly as many in plain clothes as their would be in uniform.

Do the likes of the Turf Club and GAA pay anything towards the actual cost of man power or is it all hidden in the License Fees?
[ Probably best not to mention any music concerts on boards.ie as an example ]

brayblue24

foinse wrote: »

I was trying to put it into words that a non member would understand instead of baffling the op with "Gardaspeak" as it's been dubbed.

Fair point, Foinse, I just got a fright there. Thought you were all setting an unwanted precedent there!!

January

CLADA wrote: »

What's known officially as "non public duty" is where the organisers of events such as major sporting events meet with Garda management and come to an agreement on the level of policing required "within the event area", usually inside an area where a ticket is required.

The Gardai working on non public duty are then paid an overtime rate by the state as they are members who would normally be off duty that day. The cost of the non public duty is then paid to the state by the event organisers.

In some cases a small number of Gardai are working regular tours at certain events but in general it is non public duty.

It's probably best that you edit your post to remove the name of the concert you mentioned that can't be mentioned on this site..

TheNog

Folks,

Please remember not to mention a certain organisation or their gigs as this organisation has has legal proceedings commencing against Boards.ie.

The link for this warning is splashed all across boards.ie here

Thanks

Nog

Eru

brayblue24 wrote: »

????? Not me, mate

Never done indoor duty at Croker ( I dont know anyone important enough) and never done Croker on OT. Always sent down on my shift to feeze at a barrier. Luckily its mostly been on the holding party which ends up being 4 or 5 hours and I get to feck off early.


As for Sgt's comments above. What canteen? Its a sandwich, a coke and a kitkat from the back of a van or a lukewarm breakfast roll with no butter!

CLADA

adrieanne__x wrote: »

It's probably best that you edit your post to remove the name of the concert you mentioned that can't be mentioned on this site..

I've gone one better and reset *y keyboard by re*oving those offen*ing three letters.

I also pro*ise to never again *ention that *olourless, odourless gas inhale* by hu*ans.

ria5000

As for Sgt's comments above. What canteen? Its a sandwich, a coke and a kitkat from the back of a van or a lukewarm breakfast roll with no butter![/QUOTE]

ive never gotten a breakfast roll. lukewarm chicken roll for me

sgthighway

ria5000 wrote: »

As for Sgt's comments above. What canteen? Its a sandwich, a coke and a kitkat from the back of a van or a lukewarm breakfast roll with no butter!

ive never gotten a breakfast roll. lukewarm chicken roll for me[/QUOTE]

Galway Races in Ballybrit. Everybody knows the "Tent in Ballybrit" :cool:

brayblue24

[/QUOTE]

ive never gotten a breakfast roll. lukewarm chicken roll for me[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and if it wasn't for the luxurious surroundings it would be a complete nightmare.

BrianD

Well from what I have seen, Gardai at music events are very well catered for at music events.

I just find it odd that at Punchestown and Leopardstown you can encounter 5-6 uniformed Gardai directing traffic left and right into car parking spaces. This is the work of stewards. I have been to other events that have large parking requirements and yet no Gardai parking cars.

Gardai are needed at major events I just don't see why they should be parking cars.

gardatrafficop

was in the garda station today about garda assistance at an public event they said no prob. and asked was it going to be an annuall event and i said yes prb will be. he himted that in the near future that gardai attending events will have to be paid bye the event organisers.
straight from the horses mouth

brayblue24

I would suspect that's the future of policing such events alright. I have heard this is on the way (and already in place at certain national events).