this pm posting rule

norrie rugger

I don't have any pm that I feel the need to post, this is just something that I have wondered for a bit.

Why are people not allowed to publish a pm? Surely it is like saying that someone can not publish a letter/email that has been sent to them. Surely it is "theirs" once it arrives in their inbox?

It just feels to me that people can hide behind the fact that they can say something and not have it move into the public realm.
It feels like, if it is not something that is suitable to the general boards then you should think twice about sending it

Sully

Its a Private Message - the key being in the word private. Any communication over PM is expected to remain private and is not for the public unless both partys agree to the publication. Its how the system is supposed to work on every web forum on the internet.

Any issues within PMs should be reported by clicking the new "Report" feature on the message. An Smod will then deal with the report as appropriate.

Mr Magnolia

Personally, I think that any PM's relating to modding (ban messages, warnings, etc) should be permitted. I suspect the majority of users prefer to leave them totally private so that needs to be respected though.

Thanks to the latest VB version and CuLT, you can now report PM's which you feel are abusive so it's not a closed loop.

Steve

I'm curious about this.

Where do the reported PM's go?
Are they visible to all mods in the reported posts forum along with the content? Or do they go somewhere that only smods/admins have access to?

I'm not sure I'm happy about the former if it's true.

I've nothing to hide or report by the way, I just think making a pm visible like this is nearly as bad as posting the contents in a public thread.

norrie rugger

Sully wrote: »

Its a Private Message - the key being in the word private. Any communication over PM is expected to remain private and is not for the public unless both partys agree to the publication. Its how the system is supposed to work on every web forum on the internet.

Any issues within PMs should be reported by clicking the new "Report" feature on the message. An Smod will then deal with the report as appropriate.

You see this is where we would differ
Just because person A sends a message does not mean that person B (receiver) has agreed to anything being private.

Esel

Afaik, if I send you a letter, I retain the copyright on that letter.

norrie rugger

guys as i said, just wondering.
It is just something that I was thinking of and wanted the opinions of others.

Saibh

norrie rugger wrote: »

You see this is where we would differ
Just because person A sends a message does not mean that person B (receiver) has agreed to anything being private.

My reading of this is that if they send a message via private message - the message is only meant for you and the sender.

If they wish the public to see it, I would presume they would use the visitor message

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

Sully

SteveC wrote: »

I'm curious about this.

Where do the reported PM's go?
Are they visible to all mods in the reported posts forum along with the content? Or do they go somewhere that only smods/admins have access to?

I'm not sure I'm happy about the former if it's true.

I've nothing to hide or report by the way, I just think making a pm visible like this is nearly as bad as posting the contents in a public thread.

Its visible to mods/smods/admins at the moment. Whether it will stay that way or not, I have no idea.

Sully

norrie rugger wrote: »

You see this is where we would differ
Just because person A sends a message does not mean that person B (receiver) has agreed to anything being private.

Doesn't matter. Its still a private message. You don't have to open the PM if you want to therefore avoiding the privacy bit. However if anyone sends you a non rule breaking PM, then its private unless the other party agrees to it being released or an admin/smod requires it.

If it was a public private message you have the visitor message section.

Jonathan

Sully wrote: »

Its visible to mods/smods/admins at the moment. Whether it will stay that way or not, I have no idea.

Every mod?

Steve

Sully wrote: »

Its visible to mods/smods/admins at the moment. Whether it will stay that way or not, I have no idea.

Hmmm, I can see this feature being open to abuse.
For example, hypothetically, if I had a private conversation with you that, say, led to us divulging something personal like a phone number or address - all legitimate messages and within the rules. We subsequently have an argument that gets messy and, for the lulz, one of us reports a pm with personal information in it - not a good situation.

At present, the only ones that deal with pm problems are smods + admins and I feel that they are the only ones who should see the reported messages.

It's a bit like general users being able to see the reported posts forum - no need, it's none of our business.

Sully wrote: »

Doesn't matter. Its still a private message. You don't have to open the PM if you want to therefore avoiding the privacy bit. However if anyone sends you a non rule breaking PM, then its private unless the other party agrees to it being released or an admin/smod requires it.

+1 and I think this backs up what I am trying to say.

Saibh

Sully wrote: »

Its visible to mods/smods/admins at the moment. Whether it will stay that way or not, I have no idea.

I would imagine if you had a problem with a pm which you received, you still have the option of forwarding it onto to a Mod/SMod/Admin instead of selecting the report button.

That way it is not available for all Mods/SMods/Admin to see it.

Steve

Saibh wrote: »

I would imagine if you had a problem with a pm which you received, you still have the option of forwarding it onto to a Mod/SMod/Admin instead of selecting the report button.

That way it is not available for all Mods/SMods/Admin to see it.

That's true but the onus on the receiver whether or not to report what you sent them privately. Most aren't going to know or care what happens when they click the report button.

Sully

jmccrohan wrote: »

Every mod?

Yup.. Not sure if that was intended or not as these things take time to get sorted.

SteveC wrote: »

Hmmm, I can see this feature being open to abuse.
For example, hypothetically, if I had a private conversation with you that, say, led to us divulging something personal like a phone number or address - all legitimate messages and within the rules. We subsequently have an argument that gets messy and, for the lulz, one of us reports a pm with personal information in it - not a good situation.

At present, the only ones that deal with pm problems are smods + admins and I feel that they are the only ones who should see the reported messages.

I would imagine personal information would be removed..

Saibh wrote: »

I would imagine if you had a problem with a pm which you received, you still have the option of forwarding it onto to a Mod/SMod/Admin instead of selecting the report button.

That way it is not available for all Mods/SMods/Admin to see it.

Yup.

leninbenjamin

esel wrote: »

Afaik, if I send you a letter, I retain the copyright on that letter.

but if you send a PM, boards.ie retains the copyright on that PM. just like they do any other post on the forum.

I personally don't see why PMs relating to forum moderation should be prevented from being disclosed on the forums, but ultimately it's an admin call, and we can only accept what they decide.

Beruthiel

Saibh wrote: »

I would imagine if you had a problem with a pm which you received, you still have the option of forwarding it onto to a Mod/SMod/Admin.

Indeed that option is still there.

norrie rugger

Good to see what people think
Personally I wouldn't send something to someone if it were not suitable for broader view but that's just me

Steve

norrie rugger wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't send something to someone if it were not suitable for broader view but that's just me

I disagree, I've pm'd my mobile number on occasion, I wouldn't consider that against any rules or offensive in any way but I still wouldn't consider it something that is 'suitable for broader view' as you put it.

And I apologise if I diverted the topic slightly with what I posted earlier, I do think it's relevant to the privacy issue though.

eVeNtInE

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Latchy

Saibh wrote: »

My reading of this is that if they send a message via private message - the message is only meant for you and the sender.

If they wish the public to see it, I would presume they would use the visitor message

That to me is the most obious and logical way to look at it .Would be no use in having the PM box otherwise .

But who can be 100% sure who gets to see what PM's on any message boards / forums ? .

Saibh

latchyco wrote: »

That to me is the most obious and logical way to look at it .Would be no use in having the PM box otherwise .

But who can be 100% sure who gets to see what PM's on any message boards / forums ? .

I do type sense an odd time:o

Esel

latchyco wrote: »

But who can be 100% sure who gets to see what PM's on any message boards / forums ? .

Assume everything is visible. It is the net, after all!

Latchy

Saibh wrote: »

I do type sense an odd time:o

I'll take your word for it so .

Steve

latchyco wrote: »

But who can be 100% sure who gets to see what PM's on any message boards / forums ? .

In VBB only admins (with both site admin and vb admin access) can do it, it's a pain in the ass process to do though. Not worth the effort unless there is something serious to investigate.

Latchy

esel wrote: »

Assume everything is visible. It is the net, after all!

Indeed , my JFK conspiricy posts are in that table someplace to .

Latchy

SteveC wrote: »

In VBB only admins (with both site admin and vb admin access) can do it, it's a pain in the ass process to do though. Not worth the effort unless there is something serious to investigate.

Understandable in times of serious security investigations .

sceptre

leninbenjamin wrote: »

but if you send a PM, boards.ie retains the copyright on that PM. just like they do any other post on the forum.

Boards doesn't have the copyright on your public messages, let alone private ones. When you post, you're giving the webboard the right to store and display your postings but the copyright is still yours.

Sully

sceptre wrote: »

Boards doesn't have the copyright on your public messages, let alone private ones. When you post, you're giving the webboard the right to store and display your postings but the copyright is still yours.

We could make a mint if we sold the copyright of our posts to Boards

Tristram

esel wrote: »

Assume everything is visible. It is the net, after all!

:eek:

Tar.Aldarion

Should remain private within reason, anything a mod sends about modding decisions shouold be postable. I have seen people given out to for not asking the mod in the past which I think is nonsense.

Esel

"Within reason", that's the problem. One user's 'reason' could be another user's 'madness'. To me, private means just that - private, not for public consumption (publication). That's not to say that anyone has carte blanche to libel, harass or abuse another user via PM. Obviously, PMs of such nature should be made available to the relevant authorities so that appropriate action can be taken.

The question is: who are the relevant authorities? Here, in the first instance, the relevant authorities on Boards are SMods and/or Admins. I can understand the concerns that have been expressed about the content of Reported PMs being visible to all Mods on boards.

Having said all that, this thread is what made me aware of this feature. As yet, I have not seen or read any such 'Reported PM' threads.

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

Gordon

Reported PMs should not be accessible to regular Mods imo. Here is a good reason. (Mod forum thread)

Sorry, I realise that this thread isn't actually about reported PMs.

Nevyn

I don't see them as private ( due to the content can be looked at by my ISP and the admins of this site ) I do see them as personal. Like an actual letter that I have written to
some one and it is for the most rude and ill mannered to pass on personal correspondance.

norrie rugger

Thaedydal wrote: »

I don't see them as private ( due to the content can be looked at by my ISP and the admins of this site ) I do see them as personal. Like an actual letter that I have written to
some one and it is for the most rude and ill mannered to pass on personal correspondance.

I like this reasoning, i must say.
I guess that i was thinking more of official moderation pm when i thought of this issue. Also I was not aware of the "report" function, which covers most other issues.
As for phone numbers, there are already rules in some fora, that prevents the publication of personally identifying information in an
Email that is posted

nesf

SteveC wrote: »

At present, the only ones that deal with pm problems are smods + admins and I feel that they are the only ones who should see the reported messages.

I would agree with you here, I'm not sure if it's possible to restrict them in that way though. I genuinely don't see any benefit in all mods being able to see reported posts never mind reported PMs.

Hagar

Sully wrote: »

Doesn't matter. Its still a private message. You don't have to open the PM if you want to therefore avoiding the privacy bit. However if anyone sends you a non rule breaking PM, then its private unless the other party agrees to it being released or an admin/smod requires it.

If it was a public private message you have the visitor message section.

I can read the contents of every PM sent to me in the email which tells me that I have received a PM. The sender of the email is a bot with no legal rights and since the sender of the PM is not the sender of the email I am not bound by any "secrecy" clause between me and the PM sender. If I don't open the PM but just make public the contents of the email I haven't technically breached any confidentiallity clause as I never saw the PM.

Now there's a can of worms for someone cleverer than I to sort out.

Sully

Hagar wrote: »

I can read the contents of every PM sent to me in the email which tells me that I have received a PM. The sender of the email is a bot with no legal rights and since the sender of the PM is not the sender of the email I am not bound by any "secrecy" clause between me and the PM sender. If I don't open the PM but just make public the contents of the email I haven't technically breached any confidentiallity clause as I never saw the PM.

Now there's a can of worms for someone cleverer than I to sort out.

Turn of PM notification.

Latchy

Makes it easier ,quicker and less time consuming to delete the email if you have already read it by pm on the forum .

Steve

nesf wrote: »

I would agree with you here, I'm not sure if it's possible to restrict them in that way though. I genuinely don't see any benefit in all mods being able to see reported posts never mind reported PMs.

I've done some digging and even set up a VB3.8 to experiment on, it seems there is no way as yet to segregate them (in the default install at least). Maybe a plugin/hack could solve it.

Interesting to note that it was specifically requested in the VB development forums for the reported PM content to be published when reported.

@ Hagar, I think Thaed hit the nail on the head with her private vs personal comment. It's a question of ethics over semantics.

Hagar

SteveC wrote: »

@ Hagar, I think Thaed hit the nail on the head with her private vs personal comment. It's a question of ethics over semantics.

I agree. I'm just pointing out a loophole that some less ethical posters could exploit. Perhap the text of the PM should not be quoted in the PM notification email?

Chucky the tree

Can users just repeat the contents of a PM in public? If I got a PM from Dev saying how he thinks Cult is a *instert unpleasant comment* would I be able to put up a post saying

"lol, Dev just send me a PM describing Cult as a *instert unpleasant comment*?

Steve

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Can users just repeat the contents of a PM in public? If I got a PM from Dev saying how he thinks Cult is a *instert unpleasant comment* would I be able to put up a post saying

"lol, Dev just send me a PM describing Cult as a *instert unpleasant comment*?

No, you can't.

You could however press the report button and that would have the same effect, albeit only the 6 million mods here would see it.