Boosting the Economy

BroomBurner

Seeing as every other thread about this deficit we have seems to descend in to a public v private hatefest, I'd like to start a thread about what we can do IN ADDITION to increasing the efficiency of the public sector.

Please post any ideas you may have for helping to boost our economy!

The public sector can only be referred to in terms of what parts of it could be privatised and whether this will be for the benefit of the economy - short, medium and long-term.

(Please refrain from using this as a method to take pot-shots at each other!)

johnnyc

we should be thinking of the future...what does the country need to do in the next 30 years....
1.)Reduce our depedence on foreign oil....incentives for wind,tidal and future power generation technologies. Nuclear power could also be on the cards as well.

2.) helping the construction industry, all building to have solar panels and proper insulation to reduce our co2 footprint, that includes goverment building, schools,hospitals, domestic dwellings.Also to help people to save water maybe
a tank on the roof to collect water which will be used for showers, toliets .

3.)Complete a distribute motorway network, broadband, rail network

4.)The car scrapage scheme in the 90's help the car industry in ireland but we have to wait to see which technology will be the winner it could be hydrogen cell cars, electrical car or biofuels.

5.) Goverment backing for innovative firms domestic or international which will give future employment

MG

BroomBurner wrote: »

Seeing as every other thread about this deficit we have seems to descend in to a public v private hatefest, I'd like to start a thread about what we can do IN ADDITION to increasing the efficiency of the public sector.

Please post any ideas you may have for helping to boost our economy!

The public sector can only be referred to in terms of what parts of it could be privatised and whether this will be for the benefit of the economy - short, medium and long-term.

(Please refrain from using this as a method to take pot-shots at each other!)

We need to focus on value added activities which are suited to the Irish environment - first world cost base on the periphery of Europe. ok - losing the jargon we need to focus on Pharmaceuticals, medical devices, certain aspects of IT development and green technology development.

In fairness, we are already embedded in the first three but we must continue to cajole companies to come here with tax breaks and by funding the universities. Green technology is a new sector which i think Ireland could become a world leader in - wave & wind especially and an aggressive approach to venture capital may reap huge long term rewards.

The fact that we are in a global recession means that investment will be difficult to attract as companies are simply not investing at the moment.
This is the reason we need to attack public sector costs immediately - we cannot wait until the private sector recovers to save the country.

Also an estate agent from Port Laoise on Prime Time assured the country that things weren't that bad and Farming and Fishing (in Port Laoise?) would keep the country going.

BroomBurner

johnnyc wrote: »

we should be thinking of the future...what does the country need to do in the next 30 years....
1.)Reduce our depedence on foreign oil....incentives for wind,tidal and future power generation technologies. Nuclear power could also be on the cards as well.

2.) helping the construction industry, all building to have solar panels and proper insulation to reduce our co2 footprint, that includes goverment building, schools,hospitals, domestic dwellings.Also to help people to save water maybe
a tank on the roof to collect water which will be used for showers, toliets .

3.)Complete a distribute motorway network, broadband, rail network

4.)The car scrapage scheme in the 90's help the car industry in ireland but we have to wait to see which technology will be the winner it could be hydrogen cell cars, electrical car or biofuels.

5.) Goverment backing for innovative firms domestic or international which will give future employment

1) I agree with the lowering dependence on foreign fuel, however, I don't believe we should go the route of nuclear. We just don't know enough about how to deal with nuclear, epecially the waste generated, which could cause long-term financial problems in itself. It's bad enough that we have to buy energy from the UK that is generated through nuclear.

2) Being more environmentally focused is definitely the way forward for the construction industry, from building sustainable homes to retro-fitting existing homes. Though the Naitonal Grid will have to become more open to accept homes that wish to supply their own power and may be able to supply to the NG

3) I agree with you on this

4) I'd say hydrogen should be the future. The cars on hydrogen can run longer than electric. It is also more beneficial than biofuels for the world as a whole, from the point of view of emissions and also the point of view of food supplies. Fields of crop won't be wasted on biofuels, with more and more land taken from forestry, etc.

5) Yeah, I agree there too.

gurramok

As well as the above, we need to wait on the new car technology that is not dependent on oil to appear before having that scrappage scheme for older cars.

Change the culture of Enterprise Ireland. This needs to be driven from the top to throw major investment at it to help setup Irish MNC's and also the small startups that actually export things that world markets would buy. (A few Finnish Nokia's in different sectors come to mind)

Germany as well as having their own MNC's, have a huge small business culture which has flourished in that country to provide sustainable employment even in manufacturing.

The above will only succeed when our cost base is reduced. Tackle high electricity costs to help make it viable to setup here. The salary & industrial/commercial land cost bit is already been corrected
I believe if the above is done, we will have a strong private sector which is sustainable in the long term.

Anonymous1987

I agree with the focus on sustainable energy wind, hydro and tidal power is abundant in Ireland if we only just invest in it. Nuclear on the other hand is just bringing its own problems e.g. problems with waster disposal, safety, political pressure. Just take a look at Selafield as to what it would be like.

Thr biggest threat to Irish competitiveness now is that everything is overpriced. The unions and the government through its social partnership relations with businesses could do more to negotiate a cut in private sector wages at multinational companies instead of or at least reducing job cuts. Deflation is expected to hit this year and wage cuts are far more appealing than a complete cut in income for the individual. Companies dont want to cut workers who have been there for years making the chance of a successful deal far more likely.

irishcarbomb2k

I agree with all of the above, a focus on renewable energy, hydrogen cars and indeed nuclear which could in essence be placed on many of our uninhabitated islands around the coast and with proper infrastructure, could link into europe.

I believe we could focus on the west coast for wave power, wind power and a transportation hub and and the east coast for technology. high skilled pharmacuticals and new innovation.

If we could have a major port in Shannon to allow large ships board the cargo from the US, then have a carrier bullet train to transport the goods from this port across the country and over a specifically designed bridge linking Ireland to the Uk, we could be come literally the gatway to Europe. The time and cost savings to the US ships (oil, time to reach UK, distance etc.) would be considerable and therefore make us a very attractive transportation hub.

We benefit from incredible currents and waves off the west coast of Ireland. This can create enough power, if harnessed correctly to power most of Ireland's homes and indeed be sold onwards to Europe. True, it will never be bigger than oil, but at least it will be cleaner.

Other ideas including giving specified grants to students for science and technology, a grant that increases each year a student stays in the course with specified work placed initiatives in place when the student finishes, would help focus our education system. Reward and recognition will lead to more students partaking of a course.

leninbenjamin

irishcarbomb2k wrote: »

I believe we could focus on the west coast for wave power, wind power

bollocks to that. anything i've read on these from an economics point of view suggests they are completely unviable.

irishcarbomb2k wrote: »

and a transportation hub

to where?

irishcarbomb2k wrote: »

and and the east coast for technology. high skilled pharmacuticals and new innovation.

and you're able to bring this about how?

irishcarbomb2k wrote: »

If we could have a major port in Shannon to allow large ships board the cargo from the US, then have a carrier bullet train to transport the goods from this port across the country and over a specifically designed bridge linking Ireland to the Uk, we could be come literally the gatway to Europe. The time and cost savings to the US ships (oil, time to reach UK, distance etc.) would be considerable and therefore make us a very attractive transportation hub.

Nice idea. one problem though, how can an Island country become the 'gateway' to the continent, particular when transport linkages are as bad as they are now?

irishcarbomb2k wrote: »

We benefit from incredible currents and waves off the west coast of Ireland. This can create enough power, if harnessed correctly to power most of Ireland's homes and indeed be sold onwards to Europe. True, it will never be bigger than oil, but at least it will be cleaner.

utterly idealistic and would drain more resources than it produces.

irishcarbomb2k wrote: »

Other ideas including giving specified grants to students for science and technology, a grant that increases each year a student stays in the course with specified work placed initiatives in place when the student finishes, would help focus our education system. Reward and recognition will lead to more students partaking of a course.

this is completely unworkable. if we had the industry base maybe, but we don't. if this were introduced tomorrow, they'd end up taking advantage of this as much as they can and then leave.

my opinion:

the bulk of our failings as an economy are evident in two areas in particular: our infrastructure, and our education system.

our infrastructure is appalling, but the provision is made all the more difficult by the urban grography of the country. in essence, our population centres aren't dense enough for expansion to be properly viable. think about the cost of bringing say fibre optics to a single high rise apartment building versus having to bring it to each individual house in a large housing estate. the latter is completely inviable, and it's no wonder broadband rollout was so slow in this country. the first step we have to make towards having a decent infrastructure is to place an emphasis on proper urban planning and developing higher density residential areas. this rubs a lot of people the wrong way, but it's the truth.

the second aspect is our educational system. in this area, Ireland is living in an illusion. we like to think how highly educated our workforce is, how many highly skilled graduates we have, how many high achievers we have in the secondary level... all completely and utterly pointless. This country first and formost lacks innovation. but where does innovation come from? by and large the elite ultratalented top few percentiles of the population. but what infrastructure do have in place in our education systems to cater for these? the answer is absolutely nothing. they take the same courses, same exams that are geared on churning out the numbers. there is absolutely nothing there to encourage them, and more often or not they leave for England or elsewhere at the first opportunity. Innovation comes from education, which our current system can never cultivate.

nesf

irishcarbomb2k wrote: »

and the east coast for technology. high skilled pharmacuticals and new innovation.

The pharmaceuticals are all ready on the south coast where there's good port infrastructure etc. There's no economic point in developing the same infrastructure on the east coast twice.

nesf

leninbenjamin wrote: »

the second aspect is our educational system. in this area, Ireland is living in an illusion. we like to think how highly educated our workforce is, how many highly skilled graduates we have, how many high achievers we have in the secondary level... all completely and utterly pointless. This country first and formost lacks innovation. but where does innovation come from? by and large the elite ultratalented top few percentiles of the population. but what infrastructure do have in place in our education systems to cater for these? the answer is absolutely nothing. they take the same courses, same exams that are geared on churning out the numbers. there is absolutely nothing there to encourage them, and more often or not they leave for England or elsewhere at the first opportunity. Innovation comes from education, which our current system can never cultivate.

Our education system is based around churning out as many numbers as possible. Even at third level the incentives are to have as many students rather than to train the best or maintain a high academic standard. We are screwing ourselves over by devaluing the worth of our degrees and are busy doing similar damage to the standards at Masters level. Our courses have become easier over the past 20 years and ideas like making Honours Maths in the Leaving Cert easier to encourage higher numbers is just plain idiocy.

leninbenjamin

nesf wrote: »

Our education system is based around churning out as many numbers as possible. Even at third level the incentives are to have as many students rather than to train the best or maintain a high academic standard. We are screwing ourselves over by devaluing the worth of our degrees and are busy doing similar damage to the standards at Masters level. Our courses have become easier over the past 20 years and ideas like making Honours Maths in the Leaving Cert easier to encourage higher numbers is just plain idiocy.

exactly my point.

I would expand it further though. One of the things i've really noticed though is how individual centric our primary and second levels are. yet the real world is nothing like this, you're constantly working with others, networking, brainstorming etc. Our educational institutions leave our students completely unprepared for this.

The other aspect is the adapability of the system to cater for differing individuals. It's the states way or the highway. I know a few people who work in adult-ed, literacy and numeracy, that kind of thing. It's amazing how many people out there are completely capable of such things as fractions, and use them unkowingly on a day to day basis, yet are of the complete belief they can't do it simply because it's formalized on a page using mathematical notation and no teacher they had previously get across the real meaning of it to them.

Économiste Monétaire

nesf wrote: »

Our education system is based around churning out as many numbers as possible. Even at third level the incentives are to have as many students rather than to train the best or maintain a high academic standard. We are screwing ourselves over by devaluing the worth of our degrees and are busy doing similar damage to the standards at Masters level. Our courses have become easier over the past 20 years and ideas like making Honours Maths in the Leaving Cert easier to encourage higher numbers is just plain idiocy.

Indeed. The Geary blog had a post about this, i.e. grade inflation:

Anyone interested in the topic of grade inflation should find interesting reading on the website of the Network for Irish Educational Standards. Their definition of grade inflation is a grade increase in the absence of enhanced learning. The focus is on the third-level sector in Ireland, but the second-level sector is mentioned in a few instances. Six research papers are available on the website, from which some of the findings are:

1. There has been significant grade inflation in both the University and Institute of Technology sectors in the Republic of Ireland.

2. In 1994 the percentage of first class honours awarded across the Universities was 7%. By 2005 that figure had jumped to 17%. While a modest trend of increasing points’ requirements was in evidence, it was not of a scale likely to explain the level of grade increase found in the universities. Furthermore, the trend in Leaving Certificate grades is argued to be due to grade inflation, not improved academic achievement.

3. In the Institutes of Technology over the same period, despite a steep decline in the CAO points of entrants, there was a 52% increase in the award of first class honours degrees.

4. The possibility that ongoing grade increases are a result of ongoing improvements in the ability, motivation or education of students is discussed. No evidence in support of this is reported. In fact, it is reported that there is ample evidence that the average level of ability and motivation among University students declined during the period under consideration.

Why should we be concerned about all of this? The researchers from the Network for Irish Educational Standards suggest that grade inflation presents serious difficulties for employers who are faced with the challenge of differentiating between graduates whose grades are backed up by actual learning and those whose grades are misleading. And of very timely relevance, it is also suggested that grade inflation left unchecked for long enough is likely to seriously damage international competitiveness and the economy as a whole.

Link.

johnnyc

irishcarbomb2k wrote: »

I agree with all of the above, a focus on renewable energy, hydrogen cars and indeed nuclear which could in essence be placed on many of our uninhabitated islands around the coast and with proper infrastructure, could link into europe.

The plan for a nuclear power it would need a rail link, port and plenty of water...the location for such a plant has been discussed and would be placed on the kerry/limerick side of the Shannon estuary foynes..

thebman

leninbenjamin wrote: »

exactly my point.

I would expand it further though. One of the things i've really noticed though is how individual centric our primary and second levels are. yet the real world is nothing like this, you're constantly working with others, networking, brainstorming etc. Our educational institutions leave our students completely unprepared for this.

The other aspect is the adapability of the system to cater for differing individuals. It's the states way or the highway. I know a few people who work in adult-ed, literacy and numeracy, that kind of thing. It's amazing how many people out there are completely capable of such things as fractions, and use them unkowingly on a day to day basis, yet are of the complete belief they can't do it simply because it's formalized on a page using mathematical notation and no teacher they had previously get across the real meaning of it to them.

I think the emphasis should be on most here. My course in college had a group project to force people to work together and throughout the course, we worked in teams on smaller projects and when we didn't, the class worked together to try to help the other classmates through understand the material if they were struggling especially in final year mostly because the class had become so small at that stage because of the number of people that dropped out.

I think most people that have qualifications like to think that it was harder when they qualified TBH and keep going on about how much easier it is now. It can't be said that all courses are at the same level but there are a number that didn't ease up on difficulty IMO.

thebman

BroomBurner wrote: »

1) I agree with the lowering dependence on foreign fuel, however, I don't believe we should go the route of nuclear. We just don't know enough about how to deal with nuclear, epecially the waste generated, which could cause long-term financial problems in itself. It's bad enough that we have to buy energy from the UK that is generated through nuclear.

2) Being more environmentally focused is definitely the way forward for the construction industry, from building sustainable homes to retro-fitting existing homes. Though the Naitonal Grid will have to become more open to accept homes that wish to supply their own power and may be able to supply to the NG

3) I agree with you on this

4) I'd say hydrogen should be the future. The cars on hydrogen can run longer than electric. It is also more beneficial than biofuels for the world as a whole, from the point of view of emissions and also the point of view of food supplies. Fields of crop won't be wasted on biofuels, with more and more land taken from forestry, etc.

5) Yeah, I agree there too.

Isn't there a researcher in Galway that discovered how to get biofuel from seaweed? If that was the case, its probably all the fuel we'd ever need.

Farmers fertiliser leaks into the sea fertilising it for seaweed growth anyway in some areas so then you just farm the excess seaweed for biofuel.

Assuming it isn't snake oil :P

leninbenjamin

brim4brim wrote: »

I think the emphasis should be on most here. My course in college had a group project to force people to work together and throughout the course, we worked in teams on smaller projects and when we didn't, the class worked together to try to help the other classmates through understand the material if they were struggling especially in final year mostly because the class had become so small at that stage because of the number of people that dropped out.

I think most people that have qualifications like to think that it was harder when they qualified TBH and keep going on about how much easier it is now. It can't be said that all courses are at the same level but there are a number that didn't ease up on difficulty IMO.

you're missing the point. it's not just about college. what about primary, and secondary? by the time most kids arrive in college it's already too late, they are set in their ways, full of self limiting beliefs and off on their mediocre career paths. college should be the icing on the cake, yet for most discussions of the Irish education system it's the be all and end all. we're being let down most by the secondary level imo.

nesf

leninbenjamin wrote: »

you're missing the point. it's not just about college. what about primary, and secondary? by the time most kids arrive in college it's already too late, they are set in their ways, full of self limiting beliefs and off on their mediocre career paths. college should be the icing on the cake, yet for most discussions of the Irish education system it's the be all and end all. we're being let down most by the secondary level imo.

Definitely. It's a serious problem for any technical course involving maths at the moment (these being what I've the most exposure to). The level of an A student in Honours Maths is nowhere close to what it was 20 years ago and this is forcing a dumbing down of First year in these disciplines which is forcing a dumbing down up along.

blast05

Education, education, education .....
- no salary cuts for teachers provided they spend at least 250 hours per year more hands on with the kids they teach
- massive salary cuts for IT lecturers unless they can show some signs of being somewhat successful in setting up innovative campus companies that involve their students. Far far too many lecturers in the IT world live in a cosy world of repeating the same lecture year of year meaning the hours they work are often little more than mid teens per week, and that is only for weeks when the college is open, the rest is holidays ..... i know, i use to be one for 3 years - unfortunately only a contract !
- massive salary cuts for University lecturers unless they move away from research focusing on bull**** like the average sperm count of the morava frog and how far north it can be found or the granularity of the Cambrian Ordovician schists in Connemara. Research for the next 5 to 10 years to be focused on subjects that can bring economic benefit or else focusing again on campus companies.


And i can't let go on the Health Service. The unions continuously tell us that our percentage spend of GDP on the public sector is the lowest in the OECD bla bla while failing to highlight that our actual percentage spend on health is near the highest. Take out the knife.....

Good article: http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1013474.shtml

genericgoon

Économiste Monétaire wrote: »

Indeed. The Geary blog had a post about this, i.e. grade inflation:
Link.

Interesting stuff and seems true enough to me (in the second year of a Science degree). The problem is that as long as the Government is the main funding source, it will continue to push for the 'right' numbers. The quality of graduate behind those numbers will always be little more than an afterthought because its much harder (and takes much longer for it to feed through to the wider economy) to quantify.