Accord wont start.

vengeance52

Hi All,

recently ive notice my 2.2td accord was a bit slow starting. usually it would be 2seconds after the heater plug light goes of. last week it was 4 and this morning it was 10seconds.

I assumed one or more of the heater plugs were dead. I booked the car in for a service next week.

Went to go to lunch today, and the car just wouldnt start. It would turn over but no start.

It wont jump start and there isnt any smoke coming out of the exhaust when i try starting it.

Its now in a garage. They said they can roll start it, but it wont start from the key. They say it could be the immobliser but they still checking.

The question I have is a few weeks ago I got an ECU remap. I told the mechanic this so they said it was unlikely but they werent sure.

Is there a chance the ECU remap could cause problems with the immobliser or is it just something else.

Any info would be appreciated and thanks in advance guys.

-V-

vengeance52

Anyone?

JHMEG

If it were the immobiliser the car wouldn't start by pushing it either.

Is the car under warranty?

vengeance52

nope. Its 2004 so the warrenty has expired. i thought the car wouldnt roll start if it was an immobiliser prob, but the mechanic said he would check it just to be sure.

Captain Slow IRL

No, immobiliser controls fuel pump - no interaction from immobiliser, no fuel pump operation. Could be lots of things (not trying to be smart)
Is it with a main dealer?

vengeance52

no, its with an indapendant garage at the mo. The said they were running a diagonostic on it when i spoke on the phone to them at half 5.

Just hoping its something simple, and the ecu remap didnt bugger anything up.

-Chris-

If the mechanic you have roll-started your car but still thought the immobiliser was the cause, I'd bring it to a different mechanic...

Captain Slow IRL

AudiChris wrote: »

If the mechanic you have roll-started your car but still thought the immobiliser was the cause, I'd bring it to a different mechanic...

+1

markos79

AudiChris wrote: »

If the mechanic you have roll-started your car but still thought the immobiliser was the cause, I'd bring it to a different mechanic...

+1

is the battery in good shape? if it was roll started then it could be this or a starting motor i dout its anything to do with the re-mapping.

vengeance52

it was the original guy the came out that said it could be the immobiliser. After it was taken to the garage, they told me over the phone they could roll start it, but not start it from the key but they were gonna check everything.

Captain Slow IRL

That's different then! Let us know what they come up with, it'll be interesting to see what's at fault.

What mileage is on the car?

vengeance52

its at 79800 miles. The guy on the phone after he said they could roll start it, said they were gonna check the immobiliser as well but ill have to wait and see.

Hoping its just heater plugs are done, cos i dont want a hefty bill this soon after xmas.

Darragh29

JHMEG wrote: »

If it were the immobiliser the car wouldn't start by pushing it either.

Is the car under warranty?

The problem is the glow plugs. Some engine's just will not start off the starter if the chamber hasn't been pre-heated. It will start on a jump start however because the engine turns around much faster, more compression, more heat, so it starts. If the problem was the immobiliser, it wouldn't start full stop as the fuel supply would be shut off.

Darragh29

vengeance52 wrote: »

its at 79800 miles. The guy on the phone after he said they could roll start it, said they were gonna check the immobiliser as well but ill have to wait and see.

Hoping its just heater plugs are done, cos i dont want a hefty bill this soon after xmas.

On another matter, if you want to avoid hefty bills you should start by leaving the ECU configuration as was set by the factory.

vengeance52

I thought ECU remapping was commonplace now and was pretty safe. The guys I went too, I spoke to some of there previous customers who were all happy with the outcome.

Darragh29

vengeance52 wrote: »

I thought ECU remapping was commonplace now and was pretty safe. The guys I went too, I spoke to some of there previous customers who were all happy with the outcome.

Well they are going to say that, aren't they!?!

Just giving you some advice, when it comes to engines, if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

JHMEG

vengeance52 wrote: »

I thought ECU remapping was commonplace now and was pretty safe. The guys I went too, I spoke to some of there previous customers who were all happy with the outcome.

Most remappers don't actually know what exactly they are programming other than what it is "supposed" to do. Without a "name-brand" rebrand eg like an genuine Spoon or Hondata remap you're pretty much relying on what the salesman told you.

Roseyland

vengeance52 wrote: »

I thought ECU remapping was commonplace now and was pretty safe. The guys I went too, I spoke to some of there previous customers who were all happy with the outcome.

Just as a matter of interest, what improvement to torque and power did the remapping give?

vengeance52

JHMEG wrote: »

Most remappers don't actually know what exactly they are programming other than what it is "supposed" to do. Without a "name-brand" rebrand eg like an genuine Spoon or Hondata remap you're pretty much relying on what the salesman told you.

The sales rep has a backup of the original ecu map, and will put it back if needs be.

Roseyland wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, what improvement to torque and power did the remapping give?

No def figures, but approx extra 45bhp and 120n/m torque.

I notice the torque more than the power, cos if i floor the car in second gear, I can now feel the wheels fighting the traction control a bit. I can overtake at lower RPM with ease. econmy is less at the mo, but that cos I was "testing" the remap and using various driving styles.

UPDATE:

Spoke to the mechanic. Said its not the battery, the glow plugs or the immobliser. Look like the car was low on oil. The fuel pump cut out, due to this.

The can get the car going using an external "Dummy" fuel tank. They said there is a prob with fuel getting through the fuel filter, so they are replacing it, and hope thats the only issue.

He said if the fuel filter was ok, it may be a fuel pump thats inside the fuel tank and thats a big job, so he's hoping its not that.

Still in the garage, so hope to get it back tomorrow. Only prob is how much its all gonna cost

Darragh29

vengeance52 wrote: »

The sales rep has a backup of the original ecu map, and will put it back if needs be.



No def figures, but approx extra 45bhp and 120n/m torque.

I notice the torque more than the power, cos if i floor the car in second gear, I can now feel the wheels fighting the traction control a bit. I can overtake at lower RPM with ease. econmy is less at the mo, but that cos I was "testing" the remap and using various driving styles.

UPDATE:

Spoke to the mechanic. Said its not the batter, the glow plugs or the immobliser. Look like the car was low on oil. The fuel pump cut out, due to this.

The can get the car going using an external "Dummy" fuel tank. They said there is a prob with fuel getting through the fuel filter, so they are replacing it, and hope thats the only issue.

He said if the fuel filter was ok, it may be a fuel pump thats inside the fuel tank and thats a big job, so he's hoping its not that.

Still in the garage, so hope to get it back tomorrow. Only prob is how much its all gonna cost

If it's the fuel pump, start practicing your bending over techniques!

vengeance52

Darragh29 wrote: »

If it's the fuel pump, start practicing your bending over techniques!

Yesterday I was worried about paying call out charges and to replace a few glow plugs. now im worried about over 2 days labour and all that work.

vengeance52

Update:

Got a call from the mechanic to pick up the car. They told me when I picked it up, that the very low engine oil was one prob, but i also must have had dirty diesel in the engine because the fuel filter was clogged. They changed the oil, replace the oil and fuel filter and said it was starting better, but was still taking 3 or 4 turns of the engine before it starts. I was told an fuel additive would help clean it out but if it got worse it was prob the fuel pump which was a big job.

the whole thing including getting it towed thurs afternoon and labour was €210 which was less than what I thought it was.

Now the twist. Stopped off at a shop on the way home, and when I started the engine it took about 7 turns before it went. Got home, turned off the engine and just to see, waited a min and tried to start. took 15turns of the engine before it went. Turned it off, and waited again. tried to start it.... wouldnt start. just kept turning over.

Rolled it down a hill and it roll starts fine. Rang my usual mechanic, and when I told him what happened, he said he doubts its the fuel pump as the car would not drive if it was faulty, so now I gotta leave the car to my usual mechanic to get him to look at it.

......Bugger.

Mutz

Unlucky dude. Pity that you're having so much hassle. Let us knnow how you get on!

vengeance52

cheers. Its with my usual mechanic whos my cousin so hope he can sort it out for me. its a pain in the ass. Ive also emailed the guy that did the ecu remap for a copy of the original map, just to have my own backup.

vengeance52

Just a question. I was doing more research on ECU remapping, and I found that when your car is remapped, they increase the BHP and torque, but in some remapping, they can change the ignition timing too.

Could this be the problem stopping my car from starting from the key?

http://www.amdtechnik.com/technical.chiptuning.cfm

"E.C.U's (Engine Control Units) were first introduced back in the 1980's as a supposedly more efficient method of controlling engine fuelling, ignition timing, and emissions."

Enda Caldwell

And as you are using more fuel/ BHP's etc. it may start to burn oil now too. It is like playing with nature. Extra 45 BHP's = more heartaches. As the earlier replies said "if it ain't broke don't try to fix it" if you are going to leave it like that for goodness sake get a new timing belt because that thing is under more severe stress since the ECU remap. Everything is under more pressure, the seals, the bottom end / crank, cams, flywheel, transmission, drives etc - you name it. It's a fast way to age an engine and make it burn oil.

vengeance52

Enda Caldwell wrote: »

And as you are using more fuel/ BHP's etc. it may start to burn oil now too. It is like playing with nature. Extra 45 BHP's = more heartaches. As the earlier replies said "if it ain't broke don't try to fix it" if you are going to leave it like that for goodness sake get a new timing belt because that thing is under more severe stress since the ECU remap. Everything is under more pressure, the seals, the bottom end / crank, cams, flywheel, transmission, drives etc - you name it. It's a fast way to age an engine and make it burn oil.

Im having a chat with my mechanic tomorrow and after talking to him, i may be ringing the guy I got the remap from, and asking him to change it back.

Stephen

Those Honda 2.2 iCTDI's have chains, not belts.

vengeance52

Stephen wrote: »

Those Honda 2.2 iCTDI's have chains, not belts.

Yup Timing Chains. But im still wary about wear to the clutch and the car is now using more oil than usual.

vengeance52

Todays Update:

Rang my mechanic, he said the he could not get the diagnostic software to work with my car, kept getting an error. Plus he said that the car will start some times and not other. He advised me to get the ECU remap remove. Rang the guy that did it and he's coming tomorrow to set the car back to standard. Then the mechanic can see where the car stands. To be honest, the ECU remap wasnt worth it. It burned alot more oil that normal, and as pre previous post, will cause other wear and tear to the car.

Im getting the full refund to. So hopefully car back tomorrow. I miss my baby.

Biro

I'd nearly bet that after the ECU is back to normal so will the car be. We'll see though. Where did you get it mapped?

vengeance52

it was a company called TurboChip.net a few friends have used them for cars and trucks and never had an issue, and my neighbour had there A8 3.2TDI done with them too.

The guy was ok about it on the phone, so im hoping this will fix all the probs.

madds

Best of luck with it Vengeance. Hope it gets sorted.

vengeance52

Todays Update:

Got the ECU remap reset back to original. The car started fine but when they tried to start it later, it wouldnt.

My mechanic was able to run a diagnostic on the car. He told me there was a problem with the high pressure fuel system. Possibly a fuel injector. He didnt get to look any further as he had another car booked in before mine. Hope he can sort it tomorrow for me.

vengeance52

Ok, My mechanic has found the problem. 3 of the 4 fuel injectors are faulty. He rang honda who were v expensive, so he rang the makers of the injectors bosch directly. they told him 360+vat each for the injectors.

My mechanic has worked with a guy that can repair my damaged injectors for 140each. I told him ill ring tomorrow about what I wanna do, so im currently pricing injectors online.

Seems that dirty diesel most likely caused the problem

JHMEG

3 new ones @ £50 each
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/firefly060176

Or if you know anyone in the US those kind of parts are a lot cheaper there, altho you prob won't beat the offer above unless you get the from a breaker.

gibbon75

JHMEG wrote: »

3 new ones @ £50 each
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/firefly060176

The bidding starts at £50...

vengeance52

I saw other sites with prices the same, the only prob is, if I order those, ill have to wait longer to get my car back. and im without it a week as it is and im going mental depending on lifts with people.

trabpc

Dirty Diesel! Where do you normally fill up?

digitaldr

gibbon75 wrote: »

The bidding starts at £50...

It might be worth contacting the seller to see if he'll end the auction early for a reasonable offer & to see if he'll ship to Ireland.

vengeance52

trabpc wrote: »

Dirty Diesel! Where do you normally fill up?

I fill up one place most time, but I also fill on occasion in two others, so I dont wanna name somewhere that may not be at fault.

digitaldr wrote: »

It might be worth contacting the seller to see if he'll end the auction early for a reasonable offer & to see if he'll ship to Ireland.

I was considering that too, but to be honest, I cant really wait on delivery time, so ive told my mechanic to get my faulty ones reconditioned so I may have my car tomorrow eve or monday.

Volvoboy

vengeance52, i've one sentence and a few numbers for ya;

Honda Accord 2.4 6 speed.:pac:





.
.
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.
./gets coat

vengeance52

Volvoboy wrote: »

vengeance52, i've one sentence and a few numbers for ya;

Honda Accord 2.4 6 speed.:pac:





.
.
.
.
.
.
./gets coat

Haha...well a may be tempted now. possibly an auto. :P

Mickeym530

if 3 injectors were fuked and when u eventually did get it running was it not running like **** as one cylinder would be d only one working??? how did it start on a push start,i never push started a car wit injectors fuked????

Darragh29

Mickeym530 wrote: »

if 3 injectors were fuked and when u eventually did get it running was it not running like **** as one cylinder would be d only one working??? how did it start on a push start,i never push started a car wit injectors fuked????

Yeah I can see this thread going on a good bit longer... I don't think the problem here is the injectors...

vengeance52

got a call from my mechanic. car is now runnin fine and i can come pick it up.

he ran his diagnostic software again and theres no errors.

Armin_Tamzarian

Hope it keeps working this time.
That mechanic sounds a little dodgy.
Your car seemed to be getting diagnosed with a different
problem every time you spoke to him.

As an OP pointed out if 3 injectors were shagged then it wouldn't run ok
after starting.
You'd be driving on 1 cylinder and that wouldn't be pretty.

To add my 2 cents, your problem seems to be exclusively with starting,
it sounds like the car runs fine once it starts.

I've had similar sounding problems with diesels in the past and they were caused by the following.

1. Bad heater plug - this doesn't seem to be your problem.

2. Dodgy heater plug relay.
You can determine if the problem is related to the pre-heat system by buying a can of Easystart, it's designed to start cars if there heater plugs aren't working.

3. When the car was idle the diesel was flowing back from the engine into the tank so when you went to start there was no fuel.
There was a manual primer on the fuel pump but you had to pump it
for over minute before you could try starting it.
I'm not sure what causes this problem to suddenly appear in a car.
I solved the problem by fitting a one way valve on the fuel line that runs up to the pump, this prevented the fuel from back flowing to the tank.

Darragh29

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Hope it keeps working this time.
That mechanic sounds a little dodgy.
Your car seemed to be getting diagnosed with a different
problem every time you spoke to him.

As an OP pointed out if 3 injectors were shagged then it wouldn't run ok
after starting.
You'd be driving on 1 cylinder and that wouldn't be pretty.

To add my 2 cents, your problem seems to be exclusively with starting,
it sounds like the car runs fine once it starts.

I've had similar sounding problems with diesels in the past and they were caused by the following.

1. Bad heater plug - this doesn't seem to be your problem.

2. Dodgy heater plug relay.
You can determine if the problem is related to the pre-heat system by buying a can of Easystart, it's designed to start cars if there heater plugs aren't working.

3. When the car was idle the diesel was flowing back from the engine into the tank so when you went to start there was no fuel.
There was a manual primer on the fuel pump but you had to pump it
for over minute before you could try starting it.
I'm not sure what causes this problem to suddenly appear in a car.
I solved the problem by fitting a one way valve on the fuel line that runs up to the pump, this prevented the fuel from back flowing to the tank.

A car can't run on one cylinder....

Armin_Tamzarian

Darragh29 wrote: »

A car can't run on one cylinder....

No, it sure wouldn't.

Mutz

vengeance52 wrote: »

got a call from my mechanic. car is now runnin fine and i can come pick it up.

he ran his diagnostic software again and theres no errors.

Good news m8. Let us know if it holds.

Captain Slow IRL

vengeance52 wrote: »

got a call from my mechanic. car is now runnin fine and i can come pick it up.

he ran his diagnostic software again and theres no errors.

What was the problem? You mentioned no more about the injectors - or did reverting the ecu back to it's original state cure all?