Whale Dead in Courtmacsherry

JP Liz

A 18m (60') fin whale has died after it became beached at Courtmacsherry, Co Cork, this morning.
Rescue efforts got underway this morning after the whale beached itself in the harbour.
The rescue efforts were led by the Courtmacsherry Lifeboat, who, this morning, said that time was against them because the tide was going out.

RIP

dh0661

I heard about this on radio 1 this morning. Some guy from Courtmacsherry life boat was asking for help from the whale and dolphin watch association, or whatever they are called.
I am sorry to hear that all did not go well.

towel401

so are they going to blow it up now?

deRanged

all the norwegian guy in my office said when he saw it in the echo was "Lunch".

thecurlyone

Ya it was big, there was actually so many
people down there that a fish and chip van
pulled up and was open for business.
I was appalled , impressed, disgusted and amused all at once.
this is it

dh0661

thecurlyone wrote: »

Ya it was big, there was actually so many
people down there that a fish and chip van
pulled up and was open for business.
I was appalled , impressed, disgusted and amused all at once.
this is it

Nice first post there - thanks

shakeydude

Is the whale still there? What are they going to do with it?

deRanged

the echo said they had a rendering plant to take it.

Chad ghostal

this website says they're doing a 'Gross post-mortem' today... http://www.iwdg.ie/article.asp?id=2204 ..not sure what that is, could anybody help out ? anything like an autopsy ? probably not suitable for kids if so..
[edit] ok wikipedia tells me they're the same thing...[/edit]

towel401

mmm... lovely smell o' fish

String

Man I didnt think it would be that big. That picture of the eye is really sad tbh.

BMurr

I went down there today with my 6 and 4 years old children. After some deliberation deciding that it was the right thing to do, that dead animals are as natural a part of life as lamb chops at the supermarket. They were fascinated about the whole thing, poked at the skin, looked to see where the eye is etc. Lots of people there too with their children. When approaching from the distance it had a surreal quality to it with a large crowd of people gathered in the middle of the wide open mudflat, almost as if gathered in some act of worship.Downwind the smell of the carcass was a bit strong but not stomach churning. The traffic jam afterwards was a bit stupid with people just sitting in cars on wrong side of road in their cars expecting eceryone else to figure out the mess they had created, a one way system might have been a good idea using local roads, gardai on the scene but no sign of any order to the traffic although in fairness I think the level of interest might have been unexpected.

towel401

holy shiat i never expected to see an autopsy involving a digger. lol

what happens to the whale meat? does it get sold at the fish monger or anything?

shakeydude

I went down myself today. It was surreal to see the crowds down there in quiet almost homage to such a magnificent mammal, to see the size of its organs compared to us was very humbling. Great experience:):):)

Dob74

Was there at 5 today, is almost gone. Probably will be gone by tomorrow. There was no cops around to control traffic:(.

BMurr

towel401 wrote: »

holy shiat i never expected to see an autopsy involving a digger. lol

what happens to the whale meat? does it get sold at the fish monger or anything?

Meat from Whales and Dolphins and other large predatory sea animals have a high accumulation of the toxic substances which we dump in the sea such as heavy metals,PCB's and dioxins. I think that anyone willing to eat the stuff must be either mad, stupid or Japanese.

JP Liz

how exactly are they getting rid of it - cutting it up

the traffic is hell down there cars parked at both sides yet there is room - i feel sorry for the locals

shakeydude

The traffic situation was a joke. The Guards should have known that there would be alot of interest at the weekend. I was directed by one Guard to go up the hill and I was thinking that there is some system in place, when I got down by the water I saw that it was orgainsed chaos, madness

duracell

anyone know if whale will was buried yesterday, or is there something to see tooday

byhookorbycrook

apparently there is a row going on between two local parished over who gets the jawbone!!

JP Liz

Source The Examiner

Efforts were underway last night to broker a deal between two villages fighting over the Courtmacsherry whale which technically belongs to John Gormley.

On Saturday afternoon, when two lifeboat men from Courtmacsherry, approached with a chainsaw the body of the Fin whale that had died in Courtmacsherry Bay last Thursday, a group of Kilbrittain residents stepped in their way and told them they were claiming the carcass for their village.

Two excavators stood by ready to excavate a pit in which to bury the 66-foot long, 50-tonne whale as a crowd of more than 100 onlookers watched.

According to Dan O’Dwyer, one of the lifeboat men, it was the fear that it would be interred for evermore that prompted him and his colleague, Michael Cox, to act.

He pointed out that a "whale arch" created from the massive jawbones would be an appropriate enhancement to the seaside village of Courtmacsherry, with its pier, trawlers and fishing boats.

On Friday, an attempt was made to drag the whale towards the high water mark but the JCBs, which looked like toys beside the carcass, failed to move it an inch and only succeeded in pulling off its tail.

Kevin Murphy, a Bandon councillor, said the Kilbrittain residents had asked Dan Crowley, the Cork County Council veterinarian attending the scene, if the carcass might be stripped and the flesh removed for disposal leaving the skeleton to be displayed, after cleaning, as a marine artifact.

This course had been agreed.

Guidelines state that "if persons in the zone where the carcass lies proposes acceptable management regimes, these will be considered and permitted provided there are no public health implications".

Meanwhile, residents of Courtmacsherry feel that their village is the natural home for whale artifacts.

They say that the animal beached itself in Courtmacsherry Bay, not Kilbrittain Creek, a small river.

They point out that Kilbrittain is over a kilometre inland, has no boats, fishermen or other connections with the bay, and that the whale jaws, displayed there, might as well be displayed in Tipperary.

"The jaws, mounted as a whale arch in the village, with a plaque telling the story, would make a very appropriate monument to Courtmacsherry’s maritime history and a memorial to this unique event," John Young, chairman of the Courtmacsherry development committee said.

The Kilbrittain contention is that Courtmacsherry already has enough attractions and, in these recessionary time, their poor village needs to attract all the tourism it can.

Technically, the animal belongs to Environment Minister John Gormley.

As the rival claims exercise residents north and south of the bay, local wags compare the debate to The War of the Buttons.

Apparently, an attempt was made on Saturday night under cover of darkness to steal the jaws but their bulk proved too much for the perpetrators.

BlindedByGInge

Apperently 3 tractors and 2 diggers were trying to pull it out, but most of their chains snapped before the broke off it's tail. 6 inches or something like that was all they moved it. Also Micheal Martin, who has a holiday home in Courtmac is trying to get on to John Gormley, to try and get him to give the jawbone to Courtmac, on behalf of the locals. Wish I had gone to see it now:(

thecurlyone

some lady came from America sponsored by National geographic. I heard she was meant to be doing an autopsy. When she arrived she just hopped right into the belly and emerged extremely red. dot want to be morbid, but with the size of the whale it was a bit reminiscent of that movie where the guy gets shrunk and injected into people in a vessel.

RonMexico

Jesus lads I read about the row over the jawbone today and pissed myself - it sounds like an episode of Father Ted.

Svenolsen

towel401 wrote: »

mmm... lovely smell o' fish

It's a Mammal.

The locals are having a pitched battle over it.

"The Battle of Courtmacsharry Bay" :

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/villagers-in-row-over-ownership-of-whale-carcass-1607151.html

.

Svenolsen

poppysquirrel wrote: »

And people can mock and jeer

Perish the thought.

My solution is simple.

Get the best shot from either village to stand back to back at the middle of the carcass.

Each walks the their end of the whale,turns and shoots.

Whichever village's champion survives gets the bones.
Just like this:

http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/iss/archives/rag/image/duel.jpg

.

poppysquirrel

If you're not going to come on and say something that isn't childish rubbish, stay the hell out of the conversation and take a look at the kiddies discussion threads.

Svenolsen

poppysquirrel wrote: »

It doesn't say much for the Courtmacsherry case when their means of getting the remains was by sneaking across, late in the dark night to unlawfully cut the poor animals head off with a chainsaw. So, if this was ok, why did they wait and sneak across in the dark of night? (during which, Kilbrittain people were still working at the scene)

The chainsaws in Courtmacsherry must have silencers fitted.
Shhh!


.

poppysquirrel

You obviously have NO idea where this place is

Svenolsen

poppysquirrel wrote: »

You obviously have NO idea where this place is

Correct.
You must be the only person in the world not to see the funny side of this great sea-battle,"The Battle of the Bones", Poppysquirrel.

.

Geansai

poppysquirrel wrote: »

Its not as simple as people are making out. This whale has attracted thousands of people into the area since Thursday morning, and to this very minute there is still traffice congestion and curios onlookers descending on the area.
The Whale can only be reached from Kilbrittain. Courtmacsherry, while known for its lifeboat, is merely a village on the side of a channel, with 1 beach. Kilbrittain ss surrounded by beaches.
The whales lies a few metres off Burren Pier, Kilbrittain, and again any access can only be gained from walking from the Kilbrittain Beaches.

The whale expert that arrived from NY to examine the scene and perform the autopsy was brought over by Kilbrittain (invited and paid for). . National Geographic merely came along to film the event. Kilbrittain also contracted in the company who is to de-bone the mammal, dispose of its remains and are also the first who actually physically attended the scene of the whale, putting forward the future plans of preserving the bones. Which by law states that they are then entitled to it.

Courtmacsherry have tried going about claiming the whales:

1. Days after Kilbrittain had already specified plans for the whale, which is on Kilbrittain territory (clearly) and only accessible through Kilbrittain.
2. Courtmacsherry has not shed one penney into the entire operation.
3. Courtmacsherry was only called upon by the media as it represents the Courtmacsherry harbour lifeboat crew.

Its a pretty obvious standing from what I can see. It doesn't say much for the Courtmacsherry case when their means of getting the remains was by sneaking across, late in the dark night to unlawfully cut the poor animals head off with a chainsaw. So, if this was ok, why did they wait and sneak across in the dark of night? (during which, Kilbrittain people were still working at the scene)

And people can mock and jeer the situation as much as they like, but nothing like this has ever been seen on our coastlines, and people can not even consider the value of this, through publiity, tourism and actual monetary value.

Very well said!!!
This may seem trivial to many people, but to the people from Kilbrittain, who have invested their money and time (esp given the weather), it would be terrible for someone else then to just come along and take it!!!

shakeydude

poppysquirrel wrote: »

Its not as simple as people are making out. This whale has attracted thousands of people into the area since Thursday morning, and to this very minute there is still traffice congestion and curios onlookers descending on the area.
The Whale can only be reached from Kilbrittain. Courtmacsherry, while known for its lifeboat, is merely a village on the side of a channel, with 1 beach. Kilbrittain ss surrounded by beaches.
The whales lies a few metres off Burren Pier, Kilbrittain, and again any access can only be gained from walking from the Kilbrittain Beaches.

The whale expert that arrived from NY to examine the scene and perform the autopsy was brought over by Kilbrittain (invited and paid for). . National Geographic merely came along to film the event. Kilbrittain also contracted in the company who is to de-bone the mammal, dispose of its remains and are also the first who actually physically attended the scene of the whale, putting forward the future plans of preserving the bones. Which by law states that they are then entitled to it.

Courtmacsherry have tried going about claiming the whales:

1. Days after Kilbrittain had already specified plans for the whale, which is on Kilbrittain territory (clearly) and only accessible through Kilbrittain.
2. Courtmacsherry has not shed one penney into the entire operation.
3. Courtmacsherry was only called upon by the media as it represents the Courtmacsherry harbour lifeboat crew.

Its a pretty obvious standing from what I can see. It doesn't say much for the Courtmacsherry case when their means of getting the remains was by sneaking across, late in the dark night to unlawfully cut the poor animals head off with a chainsaw. So, if this was ok, why did they wait and sneak across in the dark of night? (during which, Kilbrittain people were still working at the scene)

And people can mock and jeer the situation as much as they like, but nothing like this has ever been seen on our coastlines, and people can not even consider the value of this, through publiity, tourism and actual monetary value.

I thought the Council paid the disposal??

Are you saying that Kilbrittain paid for expert or the National Geographic??

I suppose not one person from outside Kilbrittain helped out in the whole process so they can claim the age old phrase "finders keepers"

USA-Whale-Lady

Hello folks of Ireland. I am the "lady from America" that jetted in to conduct the autopsy. I have been following your posts with interest. I just wanted to clarify one factual error. My trip to Ireland to lead the dissection was paid for by Windfall Films. They are making a documentary for National Geographic and Channel 4.

Also, I am looking for very good quality still photos of the outside of the whale taken on Thursday or Friday before the whale became bloated and rolled over. when I arrived, the right side and back were hidden from my view. I was unable to asess some portions of the left side as well, due to premature removal of the flipper and some large strips of blubber on Sunday morning. I would like to know if any gashes/injuries/infections were present before an attempt was made to move the whale or strip the remaining blubber off the sides and back, and what these injuries looked like. I could see a series of parallel scratches that had some slight wiggles to them. I had supposed that they were from the whale being dragged, but it soulds like the movement was minimal (and over sand, not rocks) and therefore could not account for these long gashes. I would like to determine whether it was struck by a ship or initially stranded on rocks and got scraped up before re-stranding on the mudflats. If you have any good photos you wish to share with me, please send them to my gmail account: <joy.reidenberg@gmail.com>.

Sincere thanks,
Joy Reidenberg, Ph.D.

Svenolsen

BMurr wrote: »

Meat from Whales and Dolphins and other large predatory sea animals have a high accumulation of the toxic substances which we dump in the sea such as heavy metals,PCB's and dioxins. I think that anyone willing to eat the stuff must be either mad, stupid or Japanese.

Or Icelandic or Norwegianetc. etc.!

Whale meat is scrumptious:

http://icecook.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-to-cook-whale.html

Shark meat is scrumptious too ...You must let it rot for a few months..as in Iceland.

National Geographic Video:

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/places/culture-places/food/iceland_rottensharkmeat.html

.

Geansai

USA-Whale-Lady wrote: »

Hello folks of Ireland. I am the "lady from America" that jetted in to conduct the autopsy. I have been following your posts with interest. I just wanted to clarify one factual error. My trip to Ireland to lead the dissection was paid for by National Geographic.

Also, I am looking for very good quality still photos of the outside of the whale taken on Thursday or Friday before the whale became bloated and rolled over. when I arrived, the right side and back were hidden from my view. I was unable to asess some portions of the left side as well, due to premature removal of the flipper and some large strips of blubber on Sunday morning. I would like to know if any gashes/injuries/infections were present before an attempt was made to move the whale or strip the remaining blubber off the sides and back, and what these injuries looked like. I could see a series of parallel scratches that had some slight wiggles to them. I had supposed that they were from the whale being dragged, but it soulds like the movement was minimal (and over sand, not rocks) and therefore could not account for these long gashes. I would like to determine whether it was struck by a ship or initially stranded on rocks and got scraped up before re-stranding on the mudflats. If you have any good photos you wish to share with me, please send them to my gmail account: <joy.reidenberg@gmail.com>.

Sincere thanks,
Joy Reidenberg, Ph.D.

Wow!!! Very interesting!!. I'll see what I can do with regard the photos. Also, thank you for clearing up the runours and hearsay.

Courtmac local

poppysquirrel wrote: »

Its not as simple as people are making out. This whale has attracted thousands of people into the area since Thursday morning, and to this very minute there is still traffice congestion and curios onlookers descending on the area.
The Whale can only be reached from Kilbrittain. Courtmacsherry, while known for its lifeboat, is merely a village on the side of a channel, with 1 beach. Kilbrittain ss surrounded by beaches.
The whales lies a few metres off Burren Pier, Kilbrittain, and again any access can only be gained from walking from the Kilbrittain Beaches.

The whale expert that arrived from NY to examine the scene and perform the autopsy was brought over by Kilbrittain (invited and paid for). . National Geographic merely came along to film the event. Kilbrittain also contracted in the company who is to de-bone the mammal, dispose of its remains and are also the first who actually physically attended the scene of the whale, putting forward the future plans of preserving the bones. Which by law states that they are then entitled to it.

Courtmacsherry have tried going about claiming the whales:

1. Days after Kilbrittain had already specified plans for the whale, which is on Kilbrittain territory (clearly) and only accessible through Kilbrittain.
2. Courtmacsherry has not shed one penney into the entire operation.
3. Courtmacsherry was only called upon by the media as it represents the Courtmacsherry harbour lifeboat crew.

Its a pretty obvious standing from what I can see. It doesn't say much for the Courtmacsherry case when their means of getting the remains was by sneaking across, late in the dark night to unlawfully cut the poor animals head off with a chainsaw. So, if this was ok, why did they wait and sneak across in the dark of night? (during which, Kilbrittain people were still working at the scene)

And people can mock and jeer the situation as much as they like, but nothing like this has ever been seen on our coastlines, and people can not even consider the value of this, through publiity, tourism and actual monetary value.

I would like to correct the many innacurracies in your post,Firstly the Whale was first seen on the Sand bank by a local Courtmacsherry fisherman at aprox 0745hrs on the 15th,He then contacted the Life boat operations network and they then put a call out through the media to mobilise any assistance that could help the distressed whale.In the meantime local fishermen from Courtmacsherry lanched a boat and went to the stricken mammal to acess what help could be given.It was deceided that due to the falling tide and the enormous size and weight of the whale that towing was not an option and that it would only lead to more distress to the whale.I was the first person to arrive on the scene when the tide receded and the whale had already died.The whale is was on the Sandbank at Courtmacsherry and Poppysquirrels contention that it is off Kilbritains beaches is totally off the mark.There is no such place as Kilbritain beach and the village does not even appear on any map of the Courtmacsherry estuary or Harbour,it is miles inland ,has no maritime connection and is purely a farming village.Your contention that the whale should be yours because you paid for the outopsy has been rattled from as far away as America,the only reason that Kilbritain got involved was because a local contractor contacted the council with a view to getting the contract to remove the whale off the beach in other words driven by profit.

MunsterCycling

Sad people, fighting over a dead mammal. :rolleyes:

Geansai

Courtmac local wrote: »

I would like to correct the many innacurracies in your post,Firstly the Whale was first seen on the Sand bank by a local Courtmacsherry fisherman at aprox 0745hrs on the 15th,He then contacted the Life boat operations network and they then put a call out through the media to mobilise any assistance that could help the distressed whale.In the meantime local fishermen from Courtmacsherry lanched a boat and went to the stricken mammal to acess what help could be given.It was deceided that due to the falling tide and the enormous size and weight of the whale that towing was not an option and that it would only lead to more distress to the whale.I was the first person to arrive on the scene when the tide receded and the whale had already died.The whale is was on the Sandbank at Courtmacsherry and Poppysquirrels contention that it is off Kilbritains beaches is totally off the mark.There is no such place as Kilbritain beach and the village does not even appear on any map of the Courtmacsherry estuary or Harbour,it is miles inland ,has no maritime connection and is purely a farming village.Your contention that the whale should be yours because you paid for the outopsy has been rattled from as far away as America,the only reason that Kilbritain got involved was because a local contractor contacted the council with a view to getting the contract to remove the whale off the beach in other words driven by profit.

To correct you on your geography, Kilbrittain parish goes as far as Timoleague bridge. Burren Strand is in Kilbrittain parish. Kilbrittain village is one mile in land, but the whale did beach itself on Kilbrittain parish.

True, there is no such place as Kilbrittain beach, but there is Coolmain beach, Harbour View, Howes Strand, Lisheena and of course Burren strand, all of whihc are in Kilbrittain.

Kilbrittains claim on the whale is based on the geography of where the whale beached itself, unlike the Courtmac claim of sharing the name of the harbour.

JP Liz

I thought the whale was in Timoleague townland

Is it all gone now?

USA-Whale-Lady

JP Liz wrote: »

I thought the whale was in Timoleague townland

Is it all gone now?

I last saw it on Sunday evening. As the bones were to be harvested for a skeleton display, and the remainder trucked off to a rendering plant, I can only assume most of the whale is gone by now. We all agree that it is sad to see a great creature die. Death is natural, and not every sick animal can be saved. If left alone, nature would have pulled the entrails out over time through the process of decomposition and scavenging by other animals. It is not natural for a body to remain intact after death. We did pretty much the same thing (without eating it!), only we made the process faster and safer. However, it saddens me to see that some folks do not understand what was really happening. It is too bad we did not have an efficient way to get the word out to everyone about why we were cutting up the whale.
So, let me summarize:
1) Leaving it alone presents an explosion risk. As the whale decomposed, gases were building up inside. At some point in the next day or two, the skin would have ruptured on its own and the entrails would be ejected under the pressure like out of a cannon, and strewn all over the harbor and shore. Not a pretty sight! Also, this would present a health risk, as the organs are covered in infectious material (we do not know what bacteria or virus infected the whale.) Cutting it open allowed the gases to escape and reduce this risk.
2) Opening the whale afforded an opportunity to find out why the whale died and whether it was rescuable, therefore adding valuable information that could help us better handle the next live whale that comes in.
3) Examining the organs gives us valuable scientific information about the anatomy of a creature that we know very little about. We are learning how they adapt to living in water, dealing with extremes in temperature & pressure, neutral bouyancy, vocalizing underwater, etc. We hope this knowledge will provide inspiration for new inventions. We look to see how nature solves problems, and try to mimic that in the development of new engineering materials and new medical treatments.
4) Recovering, cleaning, and mounting the skeleton for free public display will hopefully provide a wonderful educational opportunity for all who visit.

Thus, in the end, the autopsy of the whale is far from a desecration. Rather, we have tried to make some good come of its death.

Sincerely,
Joy

Trojan911

USA-Whale-Lady wrote: »

Also, I am looking for very good quality still photos of the outside of the whale taken on Thursday or Friday before the whale became bloated and rolled over.joy.reidenberg@gmail.com>.

I have 41 images of this whale. They were taken on the Thursday at 15.50hrs or there abouts approximately 4hrs after LPE. The majority of them are close ups and cover all angles. (Taken for a newspaper, thus the amount).

They are full format jpeg approx 5mb each in size so to large to go to your gmail. If you PM me an address either here or NY I will upload them onto a disc & send them to you.

thecurlyone

I have about 12-13 good quality photos taken on the 15th at 1 o clock, I can also pass these on if you wish. Just pm

BMurr

I'm sorry to hear that the remains will be carted off to a rendering plant. We already take so much from the sea that i think it woulkd have been nice to give back to nature the nutrients which sea life would have been able to use from the carcass, surely a few fishing trawlers could have taken a good portion of the remnains back out to sea? But then where would the profit in that be?

Geansai

BMurr wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear that the remains will be carted off to a rendering plant. We already take so much from the sea that i think it woulkd have been nice to give back to nature the nutrients which sea life would have been able to use from the carcass, surely a few fishing trawlers could have taken a good portion of the remnains back out to sea? But then where would the profit in that be? It's amazing how greed and the desire to profit is ever present whatever the situation.

I'm not sure I completely understand. How is anyone make a profit from the whale (other than the chippers)??

I really don't see the greed nd the desire to profit in this one.

BMurr

Geansai wrote: »

I'm not sure I completely understand. How is anyone make a profit from the whale (other than the chippers)??

I really don't see the greed nd the desire to profit in this one.

I had presumed, perhaps wrongly that a rendering plant will pay for such meat/blubber and that it will turn it into pig food or dog food or something saleable?

Geansai

As far as I was aware it was an incenerator, which just burned the flesh.

I could be wrong though...

BMurr

Geansai wrote: »

As far as I was aware it was an incenerator, which just burned the flesh.quote]

Crikey, how daft would that be when a perfectly natural and very appropriate disposal method is within sight of the carcass. This animal could have fed an ecosystem for several months if not a year.

USA-Whale-Lady

Geansai wrote: »

As far as I was aware it was an incenerator, which just burned the flesh.

I could be wrong though...

You might be right. The parts might have gone to an incinerator. I do not know.
As for rendering, if the parts went there, I hope they would not use it for animal feed. I do not know what disease(s) this animal had, nor is it clear whether it might have a high load of pollutants and toxins accumulated in the flesh and blubber.
Bringing the remains out to sea might pose a health hazard, as the flesh would likely float, not sink. Unless currents bring it out to open ocean (where it would feed sharks, birds, and other scavengers), then the parts might float back to someone else's shores and create another health hazard (people touching it, dogs eating it, etc.).

poppysquirrel

Does anyone know if the rumours of the Whale being pregnant are true?

Poloman

I thought this was a thread about Mary Harney

USA-Whale-Lady

poppysquirrel wrote: »

Does anyone know if the rumours of the Whale being pregnant are true?

We didn't see any fetus, but we didn't have time for a full examination of the uterus.