New 09 Volkswagen

pureirish · 13-01-2009 7:23pm #1

Hi,

I was with a friend in a dealership today looking at a new 09 VW unregistered. Plenty of extras on it.

Now, having no trade in I would have expected the dealer to offer at least 10% off the list especially with new car sales as bad as they are at the moment. All they offered was 6%!

What are people getting out there at the moment? What would be a decent cash deal discount?

Note: There were 2219 vw passengar cars registered in the period 01 Jan 08 to 10 Jan 08 versus 632 for the same period this year. 71.5% difference!

Maybe I am being unrealistic looking for 10%???

Thanks

NiSmO · 13-01-2009 7:30pm

This post has been deleted.

pureirish · 13-01-2009 7:33pm

Thanks NiSmO, Is 13% based on knowledge of the industry margins?

I was sure I got 8% - 10% on a new car even back when times were good in 2004. Must check the paperwork.

niceirishfella · 13-01-2009 7:38pm

Avoid the dealers here, go to the uk, buy a vehicle over 6 month olds and save 33%.

pureirish · 13-01-2009 7:39pm

I agree with that. Problem here is the particular model isn't out 6 months

niceirishfella · 13-01-2009 7:42pm

pureirish wrote: »

I agree with that. Problem here is the particular model isn't out 6 months

ohhh, i see.

L-M · 13-01-2009 7:44pm

You're going to have to tell us the model and list price.

niceirishfella · 13-01-2009 7:47pm

Passat CC?

pureirish · 13-01-2009 7:48pm

Scirocco, white, 19" wheels, black leather, 2.0 petrol, manual, multi function steering wheel. just over €40k

Plenty of room for movement on that as far as I can see.

L-M · 13-01-2009 7:51pm

Aye, but you see, that is brand new stock. And they might want to risk keeping it for another while. I'd say something if it was a car they had plenty of stock in. Plus, if they have the only one in the country with that spec, don't you think they are in a good position?

niceirishfella · 13-01-2009 7:51pm

pureirish wrote: »

Scirocco, white, 19" wheels, black leather, 2.0 petrol, manual, multi function steering wheel. just over €40k

Plenty of room for movement on that as far as I can see.

There's no room for movement as he's got you over a barrell and he knows it.You can't get one in the UK for another 6 months or so to import.
You want, he has - thats the equation.

pureirish · 13-01-2009 7:55pm

I see your point there alright. With those extras there aren't a lot of them in the country. What makes you think it's the only one in the country? Do you know something I don't?

That said it's an easy deal for them either way and I don't believe 6% is as good as they could go.

The alternative is I wait 2 months and get one in the uk 6 months old for 30k or less (with vrt paid) with all the extras you could want. Same one here would cost you €45!

L-M · 13-01-2009 7:58pm

pureirish wrote: »

The alternative is I wait 2 months and get one in the uk 6 months old for 30k or less (with vrt paid) with all the extras you could want. Same one here would cost you €45!

Hmmm...2months.....10k in my pocket...Hmmmm...:rolleyes:

McSpud · 13-01-2009 8:01pm

pureirish wrote: »

Scirocco, white, 19" wheels, black leather, 2.0 petrol, manual, multi function steering wheel. just over €40k

Plenty of room for movement on that as far as I can see.

Buy some bank shares (I hear they are a great investment) & wait for 6 months to get UK import.

Have you looked at price of buy new from the UK?

Fizman · 13-01-2009 8:02pm

OP, ring EVERY VW main dealer in the country and give them the spec you are looking for. Tell them you are not trading. I guarantee you will find some garage that will have the equivalent of (at least) 10% off. When you get a good price, tell other garages and see what they think.

Either that or import in a few months.

Very jealous too btw.

pureirish · 13-01-2009 8:03pm

As far as I'm aware if you buy in the uk new you have to pay Vat & VRT.

Car has to be over 6 months old and have over 6k km on the clock to avoid the vat.

pureirish · 13-01-2009 8:07pm

I rang a couple today alright. Didn't get into money with them. One offered to fit leather to the car because the one he had didn't have it!!!

L-M · 13-01-2009 8:09pm

pureirish wrote: »

I rang a couple today alright. Didn't get into money with them. One offered to fit leather to the car because the one he had didn't have it!!!

Have had that done before, generally fantastic quality.

McSpud · 13-01-2009 8:13pm

pureirish wrote: »

As far as I'm aware if you buy in the uk new you have to pay Vat & VRT.

Car has to be over 6 months old and have over 6k km on the clock to avoid the vat.

Now sure of your exact spec model but rough calculation incl VRT & VAT comes in at 35k based on list price.

IMO 6% discount off 40k not good enough with no trade in.

-Chris- · 13-01-2009 8:20pm

I don't even think there is 10% margin in a VW Scirocco (although I'm not a VW guy).

I think your expectations are too high.

Straight deal, no trade-in etc. makes no difference, the margin's the margin. No dealer will want to sell a Scirocco for a loss.

S.I.R · 13-01-2009 8:23pm

trade in of 6 % ??

orice around, give him the choice... 12% at the very least or your gone like a bat out of hell.

Quite simple and effective.

Drummerboy08 · 13-01-2009 8:25pm

S.I.R wrote: »

trade in of 6 % ??

orice around, give him the choice... 12% at the very least or your gone like a bat out of hell.

Quite simple and effective.

12% sounds very precise. What are you basing that on?

pureirish · 13-01-2009 8:39pm

McSpud wrote: »

Now sure of your exact spec model but rough calculation incl VRT & VAT comes in at 35k based on list price.

IMO 6% discount off 40k not good enough with no trade in.

I get:

€25k (sterling buy price converted to euro) less uk vat @13.5% plus Irish Vat @21.5% = €26,762 + €9010 VRT + €600 travel costs = €36,372

Not really worth it. You only really save when you go secondhand from the UK as far as I can see.

frag4 · 13-01-2009 8:41pm

Im think about a Scirroco as well 2.0L,white,dgs and 18" alloy .
Reckon I can import for 32k.
This is the UK gt spec with 18" alloys.alarm, magnetic dampers, a few little things(punture warning sensors etc) and a 3 year warrrainty.
As opposed to standard chassis (magnetic dampers €1247), 17" alloys(18"= €611) and a 2 year warrainty.

13-01-2009 8:41pm

I'm surprised there's a Scirocco with 19" wheels in a dealers, the ones from the brochure are €1,800 extra.

Anyway, I'm looking to buy one too and I'm having no joy at all on the discount front. Presumably because I have a trade in (only €4,500 against €36,000 tho) and I want a special order (xenons, dsg etc).

If I could get 12% off a current stock Scirocco I'd ditch the extras and sell my own car privately. I didn't think I could get anywhere near that off

galwaytt · 13-01-2009 8:50pm

frag & 8080 - I notice you're both looking at DSG - good choice.

OP, I think this is one thing about your spec I would change. Come time to change (ignoring price), DSG will be much more attractive than manual. I dare say most sold in UK will be DSG. I know Porsche fully expect the majority of 997's to be DSG/PDK from now on, now that the performance exceeds that of a manual.

mickdw · 13-01-2009 8:52pm

If you buy a car less than 6 months old in uk, you can buy it vat free once its for export. You just fill out a form at the dealer. You dont need to be vat registered. You then pay vat & vrt here.

pureirish · 13-01-2009 8:54pm

frag4 wrote: »

Im think about a Scirroco as well 2.0L,white,dgs and 18" alloy .
Reckon I can import for 32k.
This is the UK gt spec with 18" alloys.alarm, magnetic dampers, a few little things(punture warning sensors etc) and a 3 year warrrainty.
As opposed to standard chassis (magnetic dampers €1247), 17" alloys(18"= €611) and a 2 year warrainty.

€32k new? Sounds good.

Are you sure it has the magnetic dampers? I know it has the comfort / sport switch alright but wasn't aware it had magnetic dampers. They cost a couple of grand on the TT.

-Chris- · 13-01-2009 8:54pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

12% sounds very precise. What are you basing that on?

+1

This kind of thought process frustrates me.

I was recently in the market for a Nintendo Wii. I could buy one in ROI for €260 or in NI for €185. That's a big % saving.
It was then my choice whether to spend 4 hours in the car and save a good few quid, or stay local and pay more for the same thing (and support a local enterprise).

I would never in my wildest dreams think that it would be feasible to walk into Smyth's Toystore in Dublin and tell them that I had €185 in my pocket and if they didn't sell me the console for that much, that I'd walk and buy in NI.
I'd also never presume that Smyth's Dublin was making €75 more profit per console than Smyth's Belfast. Simple competition would put paid to that.

Shop with your feet - that's fine, but if you expect you can negotiate with a local supplier based on a pricing structure in another territory or if you expect a local supplier to sell their product at a loss in order to compete with another territory, you're not being realistic.

13-01-2009 8:56pm

pureirish wrote: »

I get:

€25k (sterling buy price converted to euro) less uk vat @13.5% plus Irish Vat @21.5% = €26,762 + €9010 VRT + €600 travel costs = €36,372

Not really worth it. You only really save when you go secondhand from the UK as far as I can see.

AFAIK getting an Irish car up to UK base spec costs in the region of €40,000, if you actually want the ACC, Upgraded Radio, Alarm, Climatronic etc.

I personally would pay €3,500 extra for the Irish car - the warranty and resale value on the UK would be a big concern for me

pureirish · 13-01-2009 8:56pm

8080 wrote: »

I'm surprised there's a Scirocco with 19" wheels in a dealers, the ones from the brochure are €1,800 extra.

Anyway, I'm looking to buy one too and I'm having no joy at all on the discount front. Presumably because I have a trade in (only €4,500 against €36,000 tho) and I want a special order (xenons, dsg etc).

If I could get 12% off a current stock Scirocco I'd ditch the extras and sell my own car privately. I didn't think I could get anywhere near that off

I'll find out tomorrow when I drive it if it was 19"'s for sure. I didn't actually look at the tyres to see.

I can't see him going to 12%. I am thinking 8 - 9% absolute best.

pureirish · 13-01-2009 8:58pm

galwaytt wrote: »

frag & 8080 - I notice you're both looking at DSG - good choice.

OP, I think this is one thing about your spec I would change. Come time to change (ignoring price), DSG will be much more attractive than manual. I dare say most sold in UK will be DSG. I know Porsche fully expect the majority of 997's to be DSG/PDK from now on, now that the performance exceeds that of a manual.

Manual all the way I'm afraid. I want the full control no matter how good the DSG is. I drove a DSG GTI before and felt like I was playing a computer game instead of driving a car.

Drummerboy08 · 13-01-2009 9:01pm

I'd doubt there is a 10% margin on one, let alone 12%. A dealer wont sell a new car at a loss unless he's suicidal. I know i'd be sacked if i did.

But if you do manage to find a 12% discount, i'll buy two...;)

Being realistic about it, bear in mind it is a new model, not too many around, i'd say 6% is fair. Might budge for 7 or 8 at a push.

pureirish · 13-01-2009 9:01pm

8080 wrote: »

AFAIK getting an Irish car up to UK base spec costs in the region of €40,000, if you actually want the ACC, Upgraded Radio, Alarm, Climatronic etc.

I personally would pay €3,500 extra for the Irish car - the warranty and resale value on the UK would be a big concern for me

Yes, I agree. What you save now on a uk car I would imagine you will lose on resale.

pureirish · 13-01-2009 9:07pm

mickdw wrote: »

If you buy a car less than 6 months old in uk, you can buy it vat free once its for export. You just fill out a form at the dealer. You dont need to be vat registered. You then pay vat & vrt here.

Can you buy it vat free in the uk - store it until 6 months old over there - then bring it in vat free I wonder. I presume it has to be exported within a certain time frame?

13-01-2009 9:10pm

pureirish wrote: »

Can you buy it vat free in the uk - store it until 6 months old over there - then bring it in vat free I wonder. I presume it has to be exported within a certain time frame?

You have to have more than 6,000km up on it to be Vat exempt

VolvoMan · 13-01-2009 9:10pm

NiSmO wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Did you just pull that figure out of your arse, or have you actually heard of dealers giving such discounts?

frag4 · 13-01-2009 9:10pm

pureirish wrote: »

€32k new? Sounds good.

Are you sure it has the magnetic dampers? I know it has the comfort / sport switch alright but wasn't aware it had magnetic dampers. They cost a couple of grand on the TT.

Just checked the UK site and the comfort/ sport switch is the magnetic dampers/ACC.

pureirish · 13-01-2009 9:12pm

8080 wrote: »

You have to have more than 6,000km up on it to be Vat exempt

OK, so what you are saying is as follows. I can buy a 5 month & 29 days old car with 6,000km on the clock vat free in the uk. Import it here at 6 months and only have to pay the vrt. :rolleyes:

pureirish · 13-01-2009 9:22pm

frag4 wrote: »

Just checked the UK site and the comfort/ sport switch is the magnetic dampers/ACC.

I must be losing it. I've gone through the whole uk site and the brochure and don't see magnetic dampers mentioned anywhere. I do see the Adaptive Chassis Control (is this the same thing?) though which seems standard on both GT and non GT models.

From the brochure:

To enhance your driving experience still further, the new Adaptive Chassis Control (ACC) lets you select Normal, Comfort or Sport setting, depending on the road conditions and driving style you require.

The new Adaptive Chassis Control (ACC) adapts the damping control and shock absorption rate to the road conditions and driving style you require, with a choice of Normal, Comfort or Sport settings.

pureirish · 13-01-2009 9:29pm

I think VW's ACC uses valves which is different to the Audi Magnetic Ride

DJ Hafez · 13-01-2009 9:33pm

2009 VW Scirocco Diesel 2 litre - 18,990 sterling... lets say you can get him down to about 18000 given the current market, maybe more if you could.

18000 - 15% = 15300

Convert to euro = 16813 x 21.5% vat = 20343 euro

VRT is 4500 = €24843 for a brand new one.

List price here is €30,920...

5,000 euro saving for going popping on a plane and driving a car back is quite a deal.

pureirish · 13-01-2009 9:42pm

Yeah I guess it's not too bad going by those calculations. I mistakely used 13.5% instead of 15% for the uk vat rate with my calc's.

Do you need to pay any import duty or is that only if you import from outside of the EU?

13-01-2009 9:45pm

DJ Hafez wrote: »

2009 VW Scirocco Diesel 2 litre - 18,990 sterling... lets say you can get him down to about 18000 given the current market, maybe more if you could.

18000 - 15% = 15300

Convert to euro = 16813 x 21.5% vat = 20343 euro

VRT is 4500 = €24843 for a brand new one.

List price here is €30,920...

5,000 euro saving for going popping on a plane and driving a car back is quite a deal.

The VRT on the Petrol is much more tho

Taking VRT as 28% of 92% of the Irish RRP:
€34,980 x 0.28 x 0.92 = €9,011

frag4 · 13-01-2009 9:58pm

the deseal is what his calutions are based on at 16% vrt

frag4 · 13-01-2009 9:59pm

sorry didnt read that right

MarkN · 13-01-2009 10:01pm

I have to say I find it funny what some of you think a recession does to list prices of new mass production cars.

12% off a VW priced from 35k?? The car is 35k!!!!

It's not going to be a major skin off the dealers whether you buy the car or not as it's new but to think you can expect that type of discount on a car for that price you're living in a dream world OP.

I'm looking at a 2007 Porsche at the moment and I'd barely expect 10% off to be honest.

pureirish · 13-01-2009 10:28pm

MarkN wrote: »

I have to say I find it funny what some of you think a recession does to list prices of new mass production cars.

12% off a VW priced from 35k?? The car is 35k!!!!

It's not going to be a major skin off the dealers whether you buy the car or not as it's new but to think you can expect that type of discount on a car for that price you're living in a dream world OP.

I'm looking at a 2007 Porsche at the moment and I'd barely expect 10% off to be honest.

MarkN if you read above I said "I can't see him going to 12%. I am thinking 8 - 9% absolute best." Someone else mentioned 12%. I don't believe 12% is achievable either.

However in my opinion if a dealer can offer you 6% straight off with no push whatsoever then they can go further.

brian_rbk · 13-01-2009 10:37pm

pureirish wrote: »

However in my opinion if a dealer can offer you 6% straight off with no push whatsoever then they can go further.

Consumers in Ireland have been ripped off for long enough. Its about time people started pushing retailers/dealerships for their absolute lowest price. As the OP says, they can give 6% off without a push, surely another 2 - 3 % is possible!

ninty9er · 14-01-2009 1:40am

pureirish wrote: »

OK, so what you are saying is as follows. I can buy a 5 month & 29 days old car with 6,000km on the clock vat free in the uk. Import it here at 6 months and only have to pay the vrt. :rolleyes:

Nope, VAT is charged at the invoice date not the paid date. Also charged at the Revenue rate of exchange on the date of the invoice, not the date of the payment.

MarkN · 14-01-2009 7:27am

pureirish wrote: »

MarkN if you read above I said "I can't see him going to 12%. I am thinking 8 - 9% absolute best." Someone else mentioned 12%. I don't believe 12% is achievable either.

However in my opinion if a dealer can offer you 6% straight off with no push whatsoever then they can go further.

I hear what you're saying but there is the chance that the sales person doesn't mess around and when you mentioned "cash" he went straight for his bottom line discount - which could be that 6%.

In my experience of buying new cars 6% is quite good.

You've got to remember while the price of the second hand market has stumbled a bit, new car list prices haven't.

Perhaps you should look at a demo model - more room for discount.

New 09 Volkswagen

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