A&E in Limerick..are you actually serious?

D-A-V-E

heard on the news that a&e in tipp and clare are ceasing and being transferred to Limerick reagional..also the only other a&e in Limerick city is closing (st johns) too apparently, so the already overcrowded hospital in Limerick now has a catchment area of 350,000 plus..does anyone else think the city is being ignored? our post is sorted in cork and our nearest breast clinic is galway..who sort out all our health care apparently..this is getting kinda silly like!

Professey Chin

......yep.This is really gonna end well

cozziej

i have a mate who's an intern in limerick! thats gonna be a shocker for him, as well as for the public...what a joke.

tallaght01

Centralisatoin is the new buzz word in health economics, so get used to it.

It works well in some cases. For example, having a big cancer centre in Dublin, where one group of docs treat all of a particular type of uncommon cancer, that might not be very common.

That way, instead of a few docs around the country seeing a few cases of it ever year, you have one team who see all the cases, and become experts, so the patients get better care.

But A+E is a different animal, and the bean counters don't understand this. All it mean in the case of A+E is that people live further from hospitals, thus decreasing their chances of survival if they become seriously unwell.

It also means that ambulances will spend more time travelling further distances bringing people to hospital, stretching the service further.

FlutterinBantam

Bean counters understand cost, medical practitioners don't.

Trick is to marry the two;)

tallaght01

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Bean counters understand cost, medical practitioners don't.

Trick is to marry the two;)

We understand cost very well. For every illness we can tell you the quality adjusted life years gained per euro spent on it.


But it just seems that we've had this crazy wealthy country over the last few years, but a crappy A+E service. You judge society on how it treats it's most vulnerable. You'll find your most vulnerable people in any A+E throughout the country.

And as most of us end up working overseas, it becomes very difficult to accept poor A+E staffing when you see much better services in places like New Zealand and Australia, with no magic formula other than more frontline staff.

FlutterinBantam

Maybe they don't cost as much and are more flexible.

Irish medical personnel are paid way above the world average,are intransigent with regard to change and work practices.

Consultants hold the country up to ransom so don't try to tell me it's all a HSE problem.

Yes they are to blame too, but until the Irish public get to grips with the ripping off of the taxpayer by medics, don't expect any sympathy from me.

It's a question of cost,the taxpayer cannot afford to pay what you people expect.

Simple as that.

Berty

Well the most recent news report I heard was that out of hours emergency care will be transferred to Limerick. It will be open during the day.

tallaght01

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Maybe they don't cost as much and are more flexible.

Irish medical personnel are paid way above the world average,are intransigent with regard to change and work practices.

Consultants hold the country up to ransom so don't try to tell me it's all a HSE problem.

Yes they are to blame too, but until the Irish public get to grips with the ripping off of the taxpayer by medics, don't expect any sympathy from me.

It's a question of cost,the taxpayer cannot afford to pay what you people expect.

Simple as that.

LOL

I was wondering when this would come up.

I'd be MUCH better off financially if I stayed in Oz when I get my consultancy. Or the States.

You want the kids to work 72 hour shifts for pretty average pay, then you need to give them something at the end of it. With their grades etc, 240k is what they could be earning in other sectors easily. It's about 70-80 euro an hour before tax for most consultants in the public sector. It's decent cashe, but not merchant banker money.

In our final year of medical school we had 4 financial institutes come to speak to us to poach us away with big money offers.

Are 72 hour shifts with no scheduled breaks not "flexible" enough for you.

I've heard it all now. I've said it before to you, let's not derail these topics....start a thread on the biology+medicine forum comparing your job, training, flexibility, hours and pay with the docs there if you really want to get into it. I look forward to reading it in a few days, as ironically, I'm just about to jump on a plane to go on me holidays

Apologies to the OP......A+E closures BAAADDDDDDDDDDD

FlutterinBantam

And Iv'e given the same reply to you

Mary Harney Minister for Health has been talking with your people for the last 5 years and where did she get...... nowhere... noooowhere.

tallaght01

Yeah that's pretty lame dude.

Are you not a bit embarrassed?

Holding the country to ransom for 80 euros an hour.

LOL

Au revoir

Vegeta

tallaght01 wrote: »

Yeah that's pretty lame dude.

Are you not a bit embarrassed?

Holding the country to ransom for 80 euros an hour.

LOL

Au revoir

Anyone else think 80 euro an hour is a **** load of money.

Professey Chin

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

And Iv'e given the same reply to you

Mary Harney Minister for Health has been talking with your people for the last 5 years and where did she get...... nowhere... noooowhere.

She got what she was lookin for. Business dinners & meetings aka free food.

I know the fat jokes are gettin old but look at her. Make her 100 and shed be under suspicion for sinkin the titanic:eek:

lostexpectation

we should only allow bean counters marrid to medical practiionsers to decide practice and duke it out and howme and work?

FlutterinBantam

Vegeta wrote: »

Anyone else think 80 euro an hour is a **** load of money.

Most right minded people would, however to the workers in the HSE its Mickey Mouse money.

We are the bigger idiots for letting them get away with it.

Stand up and be counted people.

Tell these overpaid people we have had enough, we have seen through you friend.

YDMHSSB

Vegeta wrote: »

Anyone else think 80 euro an hour is a **** load of money.

its an unbelieveable amount of money. no person in this country is worth that, that is a fact. €80 an hour is above a full days pay for a large portion of the country. but no, sure we all earn 50,000k in ireland dont we:rolleyes:

Cool Mo D

As someone who's living in Ennis, the closure of the A&E is no loss. I'd rather treat the injury myself then go to that dump. Station a few ambulances there at night to take people to Limerick - a good idea I'd say.

Quazzie

YDMHSSB wrote: »

its an unbelieveable amount of money. no person in this country is worth that, that is a fact. €80 an hour is above a full days pay for a large portion of the country. but no, sure we all earn 50,000k in ireland dont we:rolleyes:

Would you pay someone €80 to save your life. Or do you have a maximum value on your life. I'd love to hear it.

Keeping in mind the lenght of time that these people have spent training and studying to get to the tops of their professions I think it is well worth it.

FlutterinBantam

Exactly my friend, and cut out a lot of the expense of paying porters/caterers/ security/laundry/car parking and ancillary expenses to treat one genuine A&E patient per night!!!

Public reps should be hung up and shot for allowing the taxpayer to support this most obvious inefficiency.

FlutterinBantam

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Would you pay someone €80 to save your life. Or do you have a maximum value on your life. I'd love to hear it.

Keeping in mind the lenght of time that these people have spent training and studying to get to the tops of their professions I think it is well worth it.

I'd have no problem paying them that to save my life or somebody elses.

Have a little difficulty paying them that to sit on their holes waiting for patients who shouldn't really be there, and all the ancillary services.

galwayrush

Looks like the beancounters will win with this one, Close a few A&E's, more people will die, money saved on the double.:rolleyes:

Centres Of Excellence.............my arse.

Quazzie

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I'd have no problem paying them that to save my life or somebody elses.

Have a little difficulty paying them that to sit on their holes waiting for patients who shouldn't really be there, and all the ancillary services.

I can't believe I'm gonna say this. But i agree with you.

*walks away hanging head in shame*

FlutterinBantam

galwayrush wrote: »

Looks like the beancounters will win with this one, Close a few A&E's, more people will die, money saved on the double.:rolleyes:

Centres Of Excellence.............my arse.

Obviously posted by someone who doesn't give a fook where his/her hard earned taxes go!!

I do pilgrim, and I want value for money, bang for my buck.

galwayrush

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Obviously posted by someone who doesn't give a fook where his/her hard earned taxes go!!

I do pilgrim, and I want value for money, bang for my buck.

I am very pissed off where my taxes go.
Wife has cancer,( thankfully doing well at the moment) can't get health insurance, over the past 8 years, we've had to find the money for a lot of medical procedures ourselves as to wait for public treatment would have resulted in her death.. I could give a very angry rant about our experiences. I would like a little return and value for money on the hard earned money i pay on Taxes every year.:mad::mad::mad:

FlutterinBantam

My sympathies are with you, but your wife is the very person whose treatment is hindered by the expense these whankers who arrive pissed into A&E every night incur, and by the ignoring of by public reps of the blatant inefficiencies of local hospitals.

The HSE is a black hole where taxpayers money is concerned.Angola a person called it. Ask yourself why

Those working there would seek to deny all this, even though the dogs in the street know what is going on.

There are a lot of fat snouts in the trough,an awful lot.

Your wife deserves the best treatment she can get and I hope she gets it, but vested interests are putting well,vested interests, before patient care and cost efficient systems.

We have to see over the smokescreen.

turgon

I was in a car crash and was sent to Limerick General A&E with a broken ankle, got treated pretty well there.

old boy

the last time i was on a trolley there i was told in very bad english that i was not there, i asked where i was, i was then told that there was nothing wrong with me, i wont say any more it late, and the morphine is wearing off.

Warper

D-A-V-E wrote: »

heard on the news that a&e in tipp and clare are ceasing and being transferred to Limerick reagional..also the only other a&e in Limerick city is closing (st johns) too apparently, so the already overcrowded hospital in Limerick now has a catchment area of 350,000 plus..does anyone else think the city is being ignored? our post is sorted in cork and our nearest breast clinic is galway..who sort out all our health care apparently..this is getting kinda silly like!

The city being ignored - have you thought about the people in Clare and Tipp. I come from Ennis and shudder at the thought that if anything happened to me or family that instead of having to go to Ennis we would have to travel all the way to Limerick. Ennis is around 35 mins away from Limerick but somewhere like Kilkee in West Clare is around an hour and a half away - add in the waiting time of an ambulance and you could be talking 3 hours - it is disgraceful.

No point in turning up to a hospital dead.

I'm from Thurles.

And the Idea off having an ambulance travel to limerick scares me, as it is a heck off a journey on not the best roads.

The HSE might as well take the ambulance from here and have a hearse on call.

RoosterIllusion

tallaght01 wrote: »

you see much better services in places like New Zealand and Australia, with no magic formula other than more frontline staff.

Ireland
Population:5,981,448
Population Density: 71 people per sq. km

Australia
Population: 21,468,700 (2008 census)
Population Density: 2.6 per sq. km

Hardly amazing that they can get more staff and have them working more efficiently.

bug

D-A-V-E wrote: »

heard on the news that a&e in tipp and clare are ceasing and being transferred to Limerick reagional..also the only other a&e in Limerick city is closing (st johns) too apparently, so the already overcrowded hospital in Limerick now has a catchment area of 350,000 plus..does anyone else think the city is being ignored? our post is sorted in cork and our nearest breast clinic is galway..who sort out all our health care apparently..this is getting kinda silly like!

Its not silly its just not acceptable.

the problem is that people accept the situation whilst saying things like "its terrible" and "isn't this dreadful" all the time.

I've had enough. I watched at least four doctors senior and junior in an A & E in Dublin on Friday night "care" for seven to ten patients most of whom I got to know pretty well after 11 hours in total of us sitting there. We would have been in Cuba quicker and probably been attended to. We were forgotton about, at one stage the junior doctor admitted that the "doctor who had been looking after us had gone home", adn they had no clue as to who the patient was.

I completely lost the rag at 2am and got the person I was attending to seen too and out by 3am.We'd been there in shifts since 1.30pm that previous afternoon. Ah so it's possible to get seen to? But you have to loose the head?

The doctors seemed to be on a go slow, having a little laugh with the registrar in the back whenever the moment took them. No drunks, one junkie up until the time I left.
The place was so manky I wouldn't touch anything, and brought a flask of tea with me to give to anyone because I had heard that their was no hot drinks even available for a machine for people waiting 10+ hours. There was a viceral smell of shit in the A&e coming up from the toilets for about three hours until the staff had a bit of a joke about sorting it out.

Enough is enough really. Sack the lot of them, they are getting paid for the job they do in the A & E end of story.
If they don't want to work get rid. Processes and other peoples fault- well I don't give a crap. You're being paid to care for people - f**king do it.

Financial black holes exist in the HSE I agree but Jesus, don't use it as an excuse when you are there to do a job for people who rely on you for their lives. By the way the admin on site was more than helpful behind the counter inside the A&E, the girls behind the counter were lovely and ordered us a taxi which came straight away with a lovely smile and a comforting persona after the day/night we'd been through with the so called doctors inside the A&E.

harney should be taken out and shot. if no one will do it for fear of catchin some bovine disease off her I will.

Schuhart

D-A-V-E wrote: »

heard on the news that a&e in tipp and clare are ceasing and being transferred to Limerick reagional..also the only other a&e in Limerick city is closing (st johns) too apparently, so the already overcrowded hospital in Limerick now has a catchment area of 350,000 plus..does anyone else think the city is being ignored? our post is sorted in cork and our nearest breast clinic is galway..who sort out all our health care apparently..this is getting kinda silly like!

Is it fair to point out that a squad of money has been spent moving the headquarters of Irish Aid to Limerick under the so-called decentralisation plan. Would you agree that money might have been better spent on something that actually provides meaningful services in Limerick? Yet, did any voice in Limerick oppose decentralisation on the grounds its just a meaningless waste of money needed for other things?

On the rationalisation of A&E, I don't doubt it will be a pain in the ass. That said, a Limerick based A&E consultant is backing the plan. It seems that the other A&Es are not closing completely. They just won't be offering a 24 hour service.

An emergency medicine consultant at the Mid-Western Regional Hospital in Limerick has said the hospital has sufficient resources to cope with the transfer of out-of-hours emergency services from Ennis and Nenagh hospitals to the regional unit.

Dr Cathal O'Donnell, who also works at Ennis General Hospital, said he supported the plan to reorganise acute hospital services in the region.

Under the HSE's plan for the reorganisation of acute hospital services in the mid-west, out-of-hours A&E services are to transfer from the two smaller hospitals to Limerick around March, with all emergency surgery and most major elective surgery transferring to Limerick during the summer.

However, Dr O'Donnell told irishhealth.com that under the reorganisation plan, there will not be a huge movement of patients from Ennis and Nenagh to Limerick. "There will be some increase but it will not be dramatic and they will mainly be surgical emergencies from these hospitals."

He said current attendances in the A&Es in Ennis and Nenagh outside normal hours are low.

Dr O'Donnell stressed that there had been no suggestion from the HSE that all round-the-clock A&E services will be phased out completely at Ennis or Nenagh in the short or medium term. He said medical staff at the two hospitals will still see medical emergencies if they are GP-referred on a 24-hour basis. The HSE said this week it important to recognise that access to local hospitals for GP-referred medical (as opposed to surgical) emergencies will continue on a 24-hour basis, although all surgical emergencies will be dealt with in Limerick from June.

Now, that said, I can imagine the GPs will react to this like a fart in a spacesuit, seeing as how their patients might be ringing them at 3:00am looking to be referred.

D-A-V-E

Warper wrote: »

The city being ignored - have you thought about the people in Clare and Tipp. I come from Ennis and shudder at the thought that if anything happened to me or family that instead of having to go to Ennis we would have to travel all the way to Limerick. Ennis is around 35 mins away from Limerick but somewhere like Kilkee in West Clare is around an hour and a half away - add in the waiting time of an ambulance and you could be talking 3 hours - it is disgraceful.

No point in turning up to a hospital dead.

i know and i totally agree with you on this..but the 'situation' as i think its safe to referr to in Limerick at this stage is getting kinda stupid..with a population of over 100,000 at this stage we have f*ck all services, it's like were getting ignored or something, as i stated our post gets sorted in cork, all our health care is dealt with in galway, Limerick city has the least amount of busses per head of population than any other city in the country, and Limerick was the only city not to have been involved in the multi billion transport 21 plan and yet somehow with people commuting as far away as tipp and clare as stated above (because their services are crap too) they have to rely on the city to provide them with services..but were not geting them!