Return of poll/home tax...

Darragh29

I don't know if this is a wind up or an ambitious journalist, I'm all for "shouldering the wheel", but if they think they are bringing this in, they've another thing coming!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/families-facing-return-of-home-tax-1599661.html

The day they even try to bring in this Thather policy over here is the day people will errupt.

Run_to_da_hills

Won't make much odds with so many about to sign on. :rolleyes:

Mr. Incognito

In the state we're in- anything is possible.

Biggins

Can't get blood out of a stone as they say.
If this comes in, it will be just yet another method to try and extract the low savings and/or few quid left in the average persons pocket.

If it comes in I would expect huge street protests to happen - I should say I might expect it - as so far the Irish public have been very complacent and compliant.
Hopefully this re-vamped tax will be the final straw that wakes the sleeping sleeping masses from their zombie like state!

We can live in hope...

old boy

jack lynch methinks removed this, in doing so nearly broke the country, i would agree with it if i did not have to continue to pay for rubbish and water charges.

ntlbell

Darragh29 wrote: »

The day they even try to bring in this Thather policy over here is the day people will errupt.

lol you have too much faith in the people of ireland.

gurramok

If you don't agree, just emigrate?

Oh wait, every other country has some form of property tax so that rules that one out

Cookie_Monster

old boy wrote: »

i would agree with it if i did not have to continue to pay for rubbish and water charges.

Thats actually a good point, but somehow I can't see the government actually thinking like that:rolleyes:

Zebra3

I have no problem paying tax in any shape or form so long as it's fair and is used wisely.

Safe to say I'll be against this one then.....

Kernel32

gurramok wrote: »

If you don't agree, just emigrate?

Oh wait, every other country has some form of property tax so that rules that one out

This is true. I pay $4000 a year to the city where I live for the owning my own home and every year it goes up another little bit. But that money goes into the tax base for the city for roads, parks, trails etc.

Run_to_da_hills

It would be interesting how they will assess it.

They could base it on a percentage of the 2005 / 2006 market value. :eek:

Kernel32

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It would be interesting how they will assess it.

They could base it on a percentage of the 2005 / 2006 market value. :eek:

That would be unusual. Market values change all the time. Normally it's based on the land value and build value of the house. This is a more stable number. In a good market the assessed value can be considerably less than the market value. In this market it would probably come out close to each other.

gurramok

Or based on the square footage/metre or the size of your house.

McMansion would pay alot more!

Senna

Tax the fecking hundred of thousands of empty house in the country, rather than peoples homes. Holiday homes, empty house of sale, etc. If you can afford to have a second or third etc home, you can afford to pay a tax on it.

ART6

I'd be all in favour of a property tax. It might just be the final straw that gets rid of FF for once and for all and thereby teaches the rest of the b****y crooks a lesson.:(

Tyler MacDurden

I'd have no problem paying higher taxes than we are now if the money was used wisely, as in some enlightened Nordic countries. Affordable, comprehensive childcare, 21st century transport system, modern telecomms networks etc. would all be worth the money.

Problem is, we have no-one fit to administer the extra funds, vision and initiative are sorely lacking among our political classes.

As it stands, we might as well dig a big landfill and each throw a few quid in. At least the earthworms might make use of it.

Biggins

Like Tyler MacDurden, don't mind paying a fair contribution but the shower in power at the moment can't manage well the funds they are already getting.

Why give them more so that they can even frak that up also?

If a water tank is leaking, you don't throw more water into it, to solve the problem!
Fix the tank, sack the maintenance man or both!

Tyler MacDurden

Biggins wrote: »

Like Tyler MacDurden, don't mind paying a fair contribution but the shower in power at the moment can't manage well the funds they are already getting.

Why give them more so that they can even frak that up also?

If a water tank is leaking, you don't throw more water into it, to solve the problem!
Fix the tank, sack the maintenance man or both!

Agreed, except that the alternatives don't inspire much confidence either. It's a pretty intractable problem really, the type of people that we need don't seem to venture into politics.

I'm not saying that politicians of vision don't exist, but they either never rise to the top or those that do have their idealism leeched out of them.

In this country at least, the attainment and retention of power have become ends in themselves. Servants of the people indeed. :rolleyes:

samhail

forgive me thats before my time old folk
so if you rent your house out to your neighbour and they rent theirs out to you, we are all good ?

Darragh29

Did anyone notice David Begg last night on Prime Time saying that he was putting a proposal to the government for a "more sustainable and equitable form of property related tax to replace the failed stamp duty system"???

Clearly codespeak for "I'm asking the government to reinstate poll tax"...

So if you have an apartment, you'll still have to pay your management charges every year, and also likely the same again in poll tax.

Biggins

Darragh29 wrote: »

Did anyone notice David Begg last night on Prime Time saying that he was putting a proposal to the government for a "more sustainable and equitable form of property related tax to replace the failed stamp duty system"???

Clearly code-speak for "I'm asking the government to reinstate poll tax"...

...or "the feckers are not giving us the money so lets bring in another tax 'cos we can make laws willy-nilly to force the last few quid out of their pockets!"

We need an Irish version of Robin Hood to steal back from these Dail thugs - but Ireland still sleeps on...

September 1913 by William Butler Yeats

What need you, being come to sense,
But fumble in a greasy till
And add the halfpence to the pence
And prayer to shivering prayer, until
You have dried the marrow from the bone?
For men were born to pray and save:
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Yet they were of a different kind,
The names that stilled your childish play,
They have gone about the world like wind,
But little time had they to pray
For whom the hangman's rope was spun,
And what, God help us, could they save?
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Was it for this the wild geese spread
The grey wing upon every tide;
For this that all that blood was shed,
For this Edward Fitzgerald died,
And Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone,
All that delirium of the brave?
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Yet could we turn the years again,
And call those exiles as they were
In all their loneliness and pain,
You'd cry, 'Some woman's yellow hair
Has maddened every mother's son':
They weighed so lightly what they gave.
But let them be, they're dead and gone,
They're with O'Leary in the grave.

thelordofcheese

Biggins wrote: »

...or "the feckers are not giving us the money so lets bring in another tax 'cos we can make laws willy-nilly to force the last few quid out of their pockets!"

We need an Irish version of Robin Hood to steal back from these Dail thugs - but Ireland still sleeps on...

September 1913 by William Butler Yeats

What need you, being come to sense,
But fumble in a greasy till
And add the halfpence to the pence
And prayer to shivering prayer, until
You have dried the marrow from the bone?
For men were born to pray and save:
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Yet they were of a different kind,
The names that stilled your childish play,
They have gone about the world like wind,
But little time had they to pray
For whom the hangman's rope was spun,
And what, God help us, could they save?
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Was it for this the wild geese spread
The grey wing upon every tide;
For this that all that blood was shed,
For this Edward Fitzgerald died,
And Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone,
All that delirium of the brave?
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Yet could we turn the years again,
And call those exiles as they were
In all their loneliness and pain,
You'd cry, 'Some woman's yellow hair
Has maddened every mother's son':
They weighed so lightly what they gave.
But let them be, they're dead and gone,
They're with O'Leary in the grave.

Great, now that we've got people complaining loudly and quoting bad poetry, we're just some catchy slogans away from being an ineffectual hippy protest!

Biggins

thelordofcheese wrote: »

G...we're just some catchy slogans away from being an ineffectual hippy protest!

...and that hasn't happened already? :rolleyes:

Slow Motion

Sure why not pay it? Beverly Cooper (I've a neck like a jockys bollix and am a greedy money grabbing good for nothing) skin Flynt needs all the cash we can spare now she is not claiming and independants expenses, shame on you all for not being willing, shame on you!

SEPT 23 1989

Love Ulster x100

Biggins

Deadicated in honour to the lordofcheese -

Mr.Micro

If Biffo and his posse intend to introduce rates again, it just shows how incompetent they really are, to do such a thing when people are struggling to live, at a time with less jobs and money. If rates were planned they should have been introduced at the height of the boom times as a safeguard for the bad times, I doubt if the public would have noticed.

thelordofcheese

Biggins wrote: »

Deadicated in honour to the lordofcheese -

That was terrible. Please stop.

Darragh29

I actually don't believe that we can get out of this mess we are in, without some new huge motherfu*ker kind of tax coming about, such is the hole we are in. The deficit is just too large now, huge cutbacks or public service redundancies won't be enough I think. On the credit side of things, three of the main economic engines for the economy have currently stopped operating:

(1) Property Sales

(2) Vehicle Sales

(3) Retail Sales

All of these sales feed directly into Corporation Tax returns , VAT returns and PAYE/PRSI returns, so those three other engines are also operating at substantially less capacity.

On the debit side of things, the huge rise in social welfare payments to folks on the dole is pulling the arse out of the government purse in a different direction.

I think they will bring in a property/poll tax, because they will simply have no choice but to get a yearly additional lump sum out of every home in the country to sort out this mess.

Having said that, when they do try it, I'm out on the streets...

Devious

Shocking, absolutely shocking. This will be the final nail in the coffin for the government, enough is enough. Instead of dealing with the obvious (insane public spending that needs to be slashed) they are going after the taxpayer again. Income tax rates will be increased next by the looks of it.

Biggins

thelordofcheese wrote: »

That was terrible. Please stop.

Probably.
My awful poems - yes
Protesting - no.

This government is a national disgrace.

Why? Well for example...

Coming Soon: Possible Governement Changes

They are seriously considering cutting school buses.
See: http://www.herald.ie/national-news/call-to-scrap-school-buses-just-daft-tds-1598038.html

All civil service unionised wages will be cut from 2% to 5%.
This includes by the way, Fire-persons, Nurses, Gardi, Teachers, Bus/Train drivers, etc.
(I suspect major trouble with this one and the country come to a grinding halt in protest)
See: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-can-alter-contracts-of-civil-servants-in-public-interest-1600626.html
and
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/unions-warn-of-crippling-strikes-if-pay-cuts-imposed-1600625.html

A new re-vamped tax on home that you already might have heavy mortgage payments on!

Another €1.5bn thrown at Anglo Irish Bank!

100 Dublin Bus routes scrapped
See: http://www.herald.ie/breaking-news/national-news/politics/labour-concerned-about-cuts-in-public-bus-services-1601628.html

Carers Allowance to go
See: http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/age-action-carers-allowance-must-be-exempt-from-cuts-1599486.html

Cuts in school activities
See: http://www.sligochampion.ie/sport/gaelic-football/official-slams-education-cutbacks-as-ludicrous-1581641.html

and a lot more to come...

Now, there is nothing by ANY side of the political fence, mentioning the cutting of their perks, wages, etc.
We have a leader who is getting paid €70,000 more than his British counterpart (according to a union rep on "Primetime").
Cutting a TD's wages won't solve our growing debt problem but by god, they could lead by example.

Will they do that? Yea right!

Darragh29

Devious wrote: »

Shocking, absolutely shocking. This will be the final nail in the coffin for the government, enough is enough. Instead of dealing with the obvious (insane public spending that needs to be slashed) they are going after the taxpayer again. Income tax rates will be increased next by the looks of it.

This government are so removed from reality that they will probably try to bring in poll tax, thinking that people will just bend over for them. It would be as a previous poster said, Love Ulster * 100.

big b

"We've fecked it all up, now the population won't spend in case they end up on the dole, so we're not taking in as much tax as we hoped. What can we do?"

"Tax what they've already bought - the roof over their heads"

Abso-feckin-lutely inspired :rolleyes:

Darragh29

You know when you start hearing Junior Ministers saying that they will forfeit their ministries for "the sake of the country", that there is something seriously ****ty coming down the wire for Joe Public...

Biggins

Darragh29 wrote: »

You know when you start hearing Junior Ministers saying that they will forfeit their ministries for "the sake of the country", that there is something seriously ****ty coming down the wire for Joe Public...

That, I suspect can because of a number of things.

1. They suspect what's coming and don't want to be seen as part of a government that is going create havoc!

2. Covering their ass for the future. "O' we stepped down and played no part then... elect me now instead - I'm an alternative solution"

3. Doing the decent thing and giving up a good waged job and perks for the sake of the country.

I'd like to think its the third option - but I suspect its the first two.

Darragh29

One of these Junior Ministers was on RTE 1 radio earlier and said a TD actually earns more than a Junior Minister, whatever way expenses are worked out!

So if they jack in the ministry, they end up being better off financially!

Biggins

I couldn't believe Enda Kenny's words on TV3 News.
He said "any government rep' up to getting €100,000 a year in wages, shouldn't be forced to take a cut" (words to that effect)

- but its ok to force cuts on those earning from 0 to €30,000 a year, a bracket which most of us find ourselves in, is it?

Its goes to further show that even in opposition, that all TD's are still looking first, after their own ass and pockets!

Boggle

Tyler MacDurden wrote: »

Agreed, except that the alternatives don't inspire much confidence either. It's a pretty intractable problem really, the type of people that we need don't seem to venture into politics.

I'm not saying that politicians of vision don't exist, but they either never rise to the top or those that do have their idealism leeched out of them.

In this country at least, the attainment and retention of power have become ends in themselves. Servants of the people indeed. :rolleyes:

You just demonstrated in a single post the biggest problem with this country: Irish people do not have the first clue how to run a succesful democracy.

FFS, it should really be thought in schools next to basic cop on (another feature sorely lacking from many Irish) - seriously, you'd swear it was a county football team you were following!!:rolleyes:

If you want a better class of politician, you have to elect one. Here's how. FF made a dogs b0ll0x of the country over the past ten years and nobody would listen - thinking that the magic fairy on Berties shoulder would ruin the country if we let another party into power - even though they were an objective disgrace. So what you should do, now that any idiot can see it, is give no vote to anybody in a FF shirt and hopefully watch them get wiped out at the polls. Next time an election comes up, select a candidate and party who might benefit the country. If that party messes up you wipe them out and so on until the parties get the message that if they fail they're gone.
Eventually the only thing that will matter in politics is ability - as opposed to who's son or daughter you are.

As for local politics and the pothole brigade - if a country does well then it stands to reason that a county will prosper also.

End rant.

galwayrush

There will be plenty of loopholes for the rich and the cronies:rolleyes:

OPENROAD

Biggins wrote: »

[/I]Now, there is nothing by ANY side of the political fence, mentioning the cutting of their perks, wages, etc.
We have a leader who is getting paid €70,000 more than his British counterpart (according to a union rep on "Primetime").
Cutting a TD's wages won't solve our growing debt problem but by god, they could lead by example.

Spot on



I would love to know if this is true re biffos salary, I did here something on those lines some years ago, if this is true it is an absolute disgrace that a PM of a small country like ours is earning more than the PM of the UK

galwayrush

I won't pay it.:(

Mister Robinson

Latest exchequer figures show the Government will have to borrow €55m a day just to balance its books.

Maybe if they didn't spend all that money making stupid big poles in the middle of O'Connel street and on themselves then they wouldnt be in the state the are now.

Only themselves to blame yet they put the taxes on us.

arybvtcw0eolkf

At this stage I'm getting pretty close to the edge, I think this will put me crawling on my hands and knee's..

This and all the other fvcking bullsh*t taxes and LEVY's imposed on us. I've two children approaching third level in the next few years, that and I'm a public servent so I'm gonna be arse raped with a 5% levy.

Fvck this sh*t, I thought I'd left the 80's back in the dark & distant past.

Sorry, I know this isn't the most articulate post I've ever made, but I'm really worried at the moment and trying to keep my fear's from the kids, its fvcking hard.

gurramok

OPENROAD wrote: »

Spot on

I would love to know if this is true re biffos salary, I did here something on those lines some years ago, if this is true it is an absolute disgrace that a PM of a small country like ours is earning more than the PM of the UK

Now, do you promise to keep calm when you read this?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-2055217842-p-4.html
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-2055171676.html

President of USA $400,000 = €281,452
Prime Minister of UK £187,611 = €269,324

Cowen - €310,000

galwayrush

gurramok wrote: »

Cowen - €310,000

That's only a fraction of what he costs us.:rolleyes:
I don't imagine he put his hands in his own pockets for anything going to Japan this week.

OPENROAD

gurramok wrote: »

Now, do you promise to keep calm when you read this?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-2055217842-p-4.html
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-2055171676.html

President of USA $400,000 = €281,452
Prime Minister of UK £187,611 = €269,324

Cowen - €310,000

Shocking and I assume that this is only his salary,he gets to claim expenses also?

old boy

now they are saying that due to the fall in retail prices the dole can be cut as the cost of living is going down, the cut in the carers allowence is only a smoke screen and mirrors job

OPENROAD

old boy wrote: »

, the cut in the carers allowence is only a smoke screen and mirrors job

The amount of money carers save this state, it is an absolute disgrace :mad:

old boy

Biggins wrote: »

I couldn't believe Enda Kenny's words on TV3 News.
He said "any government rep' up to getting €100,000 a year in wages, shouldn't be forced to take a cut" (words to that effect)

- but its ok to force cuts on those earning from 0 to €30,000 a year, a bracket which most of us find ourselves in, is it?

Its goes to further show that even in opposition, that all TD's are still looking first, after their own ass and pockets!

so you have copped on

OPENROAD

Biggins wrote: »

I couldn't believe Enda Kenny's words on TV3 News.
He said "any government rep' up to getting €100,000 a year in wages, shouldn't be forced to take a cut" (words to that effect)

- but its ok to force cuts on those earning from 0 to €30,000 a year, a bracket which most of us find ourselves in, is it?

Its goes to further show that even in opposition, that all TD's are still looking first, after their own ass and pockets!

They live in a completely different world to the rest of us.

galwayrush

OPENROAD wrote: »

They live in a completely different world to the rest of us.

It's up to us to give them a dose of reality at election time.