BCS Title game

eagle eye

Florida Gators Vs Oklahoma Sooners

Heisman winner Tim Tebow vs Heisman winner Sam Bradford

Powerful Offense vs Powerful Offense

Defense to decide the game methinks.

I'm really looking forward to this game, but I do expect a big win for Florida. I'm gonna predict 45-27 as the result in favour of the Gators.

Anyways for anyone thats watching, I thought we should have a thread for this one.

Black Swan

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm really looking forward to this game, but I do expect a big win for Florida. I'm gonna predict 45-27 as the result in favour of the Gators.

Anyways for anyone thats watching, I thought we should have a thread for this one.

Game starts in about 3/4 hour. That's when the Gators are going to chew up the Sooners for dinner. Gators win by 10!

kev_s88

well we got a nice even 7-7 scoreline halfway through the 2nd quarter.....Gators with nice patient build up, Sooners with amazing offense and fast TD....i still think Gators win but not so convincing as everyone else thinks

edit: Sooners just intercept Tebow to the Gators' 20sth...looks like another TD for OU



hmmm another EDIT: Gators stop on 4th and goal....very impressive

eagle eye

Yeah, halftime now and we seen more running from the Sooners than they done all year I'd say. And the Gators are struggling to run the ball most of the time and two interceptions for Tebow. Even though he threw a good ball on one of them. Bradford has looked impressive when he has time, his accuracy is awesome but he does look a little befuddled when he is under pressure.

Cerainly not the high powered offensive fest we all expected.

Both defenses have been very good, I'm very impressed by both defenses especiallly the Sooners. Gerald McCoy has been really impressive for the Sooners.

juvenal

Just walked in the door before halftime. Big play by the Gators defence with a couple of seconds to go to intercept Bradford.

I'm a little surprised that the score is that low Am I right in thinking that defence is ruling at the moment?

juvenal

This could be the game-winning drive. . .

Or we could be set up for a grandstand finish!

Edit: Touchdown Gators (Nelson). Makes it FL 24 OK 14 with 3.07 on the clock.

eagle eye

Well Tebow really turned it on in the last quarter. He was fantastic, running the ball, that throw down the field that set up the winning touchdown.

But overall you have to give so much credit to the Gators defence who came up big at the end of the first half twice and then all through the second half. Magnificent performance from them.

I think the Sooners defence played very well until Florida started using the option pass more regularly. This they could not handle. On offence, they met a defence like nothing they have ever faced before and its showed the whole way through the team, the running game worked pretty well in the first half for them, but when the chips were down they just didn't have what it took to beat the Gators either running or passing.

And the superstar QBs, Sam Bradford completed 26 of 41 for 257 yards, 2 TDs and 2 int. and a yearly low rating of 122.41. No surprise there for me as it has happened to all the Big 12 QBs in the bowl games. Tim Tebow was 18 of 30 for 232 yards with 2 tds and 2 int. and a yearly low rating of 133.62.

Dodge

Very poor game. Just adding to the cause of Utah, USC and Texas. In the AP vote Utah jumped up to 2nd with the Sooners dropping to 5th.

Playoffs by 2013?

Tristram

Wishful thinking methinks

eagle eye

Dodge wrote: »

Very poor game. Just adding to the cause of Utah, USC and Texas. In the AP vote Utah jumped up to 2nd with the Sooners dropping to 5th.

Playoffs by 2013?

It was very poor of you wanted an offensive scoring feast. But it was very interesting from a defensive point of view.

By the way Bill Belichick was at the game. He doesn't go to these things just to be there. And with the amount of promising LBs, Corners and defensive and offensive linemen he had a lot to digest after the game.

And here is what Tebow did when it mattered, the 4th quarter. Along with pumping his whole team he did the following

11 of 11 for 148 yards, with 2 tds and 0 int with 45 rushing yards.

I fail to see how others don't rate the guy. I think that winning mentality and the leadership he showed yet again last night is what will make him a superstar in the NFL.

Royal Seahawk

Can somebody please tell me why a lot of football experts in the States don't think that Tim Tebow is cut out for an NFL career?
It doesn't make sense to me....

Dodge

Royal Seahawk wrote: »

Can somebody please tell me why a lot of football experts in the States don't think that Tim Tebow is cut out for an NFL career?
It doesn't make sense to me....

Mostly because of Vince Young (and his like). An absolute stud at College QB. Running for fun and a passing as good as anyone. But Florida, like Texas, don't play a "pro style" offence so there are question marks there.

As many "experts" think Tebow is the real deal though

Chucky the tree

Royal Seahawk wrote: »

Can somebody please tell me why a lot of football experts in the States don't think that Tim Tebow is cut out for an NFL career?
It doesn't make sense to me....

His lack of experience in an nfl offense, never takes a snap under centre and plays in a spread offense. He's inaccurate, alot of his throws he just picks one receiver and fires it his way, he doesnt need to spend alot of time in the pocket finding an open receiver.

I've yet to see a mock draft anywhere that has him going in the first round, let alone the first day. Some team will take a risk on him in the 3rd or 4th round probaly. wouldnt be supirsed if it's miami to help with there wildcate offense.

jdivision

NFL players are bigger, stronger and faster. He'd have more trouble running as a result. That means he'll have to stay in the pocket more and other posters have posted the problems with that. Despite all the QB "athletes" taken in the draft in the last five years, none of them has become elite, Vick being the ultimate example. Look how much the receivers came on once he left.

Hynzie

Royal Seahawk wrote: »

Can somebody please tell me why a lot of football experts in the States don't think that Tim Tebow is cut out for an NFL career?
It doesn't make sense to me....

Alex Smith being a bust also doesnt help him either because Smith ran Urban Meyers offense when he was coaching Utah. People in the pros have serious questions about how well that offense translates to the NFL.

As for the game I thought it was entertaining despite the lack of scoring. The play where Bradford threw his second INT was huge. If Iglesias gets a handle on that pass it would have been a very different ball game.

Black Swan

Dodge wrote: »

Very poor game. Just adding to the cause of Utah, USC and Texas. In the AP vote Utah jumped up to 2nd with the Sooners dropping to 5th.

What a last minute cop-out by the AP! They want to appear on the winning side, seeing the storm clouds approaching the BCS, with 13-0 Utah filing a complaint against BCS.:rolleyes:

Dodge

In fairness to the AP, its only individuals within the AP that voted that way. And of course their own victory over Alabama will have helped their cause enormously (Alabama being No 1 for most of the season)

Leslie91

Where/how did u see the game lads?. On the net somewhere?.

Royal Seahawk

A channel called NASN-North American Sports Network. It's part of the Setanta sports pack. Its being rebranded as ESPN in Feb.

Well thats where i watched it anyway,can't answer for everybody of course!

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

His lack of experience in an nfl offense, never takes a snap under centre and plays in a spread offense. He's inaccurate, alot of his throws he just picks one receiver and fires it his way, he doesnt need to spend alot of time in the pocket finding an open receiver.

I've yet to see a mock draft anywhere that has him going in the first round, let alone the first day. Some team will take a risk on him in the 3rd or 4th round probaly. wouldnt be supirsed if it's miami to help with there wildcate offense.

A guy who can do this when it really counts is something special. Its not the first time he has done it either. I put it up earlier, its the fourth quarter.

11 of 11 for 148 yards, with 2 tds and 0 int with 45 rushing yards.

He is real leader on the field as well. He has so much going for him, his combination of size, strength and speed along with his arm makes him very special. Last night he made first downs with sheer will breaking tackles to make it when it looked like he was going to be brought down well short.

He obviously still has to learn a few things, but he has all the attributes to be a very special talent in the NFL.

I know you disagree with this, but look at Bradford last night compared to all season, he was not near the same standard. He looked uncomfortable under pressure, he might not have it when its needed most. He did not look like a leader last night.

All these extras is what makes Tebow the best I've seen in College football in my lifetime. We'll just have to wait and see, but I really do expect big things from him. I have a feeling he will stay with Florida another year.

kev_s88

Leslie91 wrote: »

Where/how did u see the game lads?. On the net somewhere?.

a nice little place called www.justin.tv

Chucky the tree

eagle eye wrote: »

A guy who can do this when it really counts is something special. Its not the first time he has done it either. I put it up earlier, its the fourth quarter.

11 of 11 for 148 yards, with 2 tds and 0 int with 45 rushing yards.

He is real leader on the field as well. He has so much going for him, his combination of size, strength and speed along with his arm makes him very special. Last night he made first downs with sheer will breaking tackles to make it when it looked like he was going to be brought down well short.

He obviously still has to learn a few things, but he has all the attributes to be a very special talent in the NFL.

I know you disagree with this, but look at Bradford last night compared to all season, he was not near the same standard. He looked uncomfortable under pressure, he might not have it when its needed most. He did not look like a leader last night.

All these extras is what makes Tebow the best I've seen in College football in my lifetime. We'll just have to wait and see, but I really do expect big things from him. I have a feeling he will stay with Florida another year.

Bradford will still go ahead of in the draft though. He might be the best you've seen in college but considering he wont get drafted until the 3rd says it all I think.

Also the point I bolded is another negative against him as an NFL QB.

davyjose

If Tebow isn't some NFL teams first or second draft pick (in 2010), then someone is going to get a steal. One of the best college Footballers of all time is surely worth a shot.
The fact is, the NFL would not seem to suit Tebow. But someone who stands out head and shoulders in his current league, can't do too badly in it, one would think.

jdivision

eagle eye wrote: »

I know you disagree with this, but look at Bradford last night compared to all season, he was not near the same standard. He looked uncomfortable under pressure, he might not have it when its needed most. He did not look like a leader last night.

Bradford will be getting a lot of second looks after last night. It's fine racking up the score with a dominant offensive line but in the NFL he'll be playing behind a piss poor line if he goes early (unless Cleveland take him and get everybody back healthy) Given Jacksonville and Buffalo won't take him it'd be the 13th pick before he'd have a good line.

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Bradford will still go ahead of in the draft though. He might be the best you've seen in college but considering he wont get drafted until the 3rd says it all I think.

Also the point I bolded is another negative against him as an NFL QB.

Oh really, and what round was Tom Brady drafted in?????

The sixth iirc.;)

And why do you point out that as a negative, his will to win? his ability to get it done against the odds? The fact that he is so big and powerful that he can knock the best college linebackers off him?

eagle eye

Oh and Blue Lagoon thats some Crystal Ball you have.:)

Chucky the tree

eagle eye wrote: »

Oh really, and what round was Tom Brady drafted in?????

The sixth iirc.;)

And why do you point out that as a negative, his will to win? his ability to get it done against the odds? The fact that he is so big and powerful that he can knock the best college linebackers off him?

1 example, Would you like me to quote you the god knows how many examples of QB's who were drafted in the 3rd round and later and became busts?

It's the fact his body wont be able to take those hits on a regular basis in the nfl at QB position. We'll see where he is drafted and how he turns out, but for someone who gets so much game time(unlike brady) yet every team avoids him until probaly the 3rd says alot I think.

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

1 example, Would you like me to quote you the god knows how many examples of QB's who were drafted in the 3rd round and later and became busts?

It's the fact his body wont be able to take those hits on a regular basis in the nfl at QB position. We'll see where he is drafted and how he turns out, but for someone who gets so much game time(unlike brady) yet every team avoids him until probaly the 3rd says alot I think.

Bradford might go in the first round but he will not be the first QB drafted by the way, and imo his performance the other night will make a lot of teams have second thoughts and might drop him down quite a bit.
He has a lot going for him, but his performance when pressured the other night was to say the least.... worrying.

As for Tebow, if you are reading mock drafts you have to remember that Tebow is unlikely to come out this year and as a result he is not being seriously considered in drafts right now. I personally think that if he does decide to put himself in the draft you will see him jump up them mock draft lists. But for the moment he is expected to stay in Florida for another year.

Dodge

eagle eye wrote: »

Oh really, and what round was Tom Brady drafted in?????

The sixth iirc.;)

And brady was an average QB in college. You're kinda arguing against your own point bringing Brady up. He's the poster boy for players who didn't star in college

eagle eye

Dodge wrote: »

And brady was an average QB in college. You're kinda arguing against your own point bringing Brady up. He's the poster boy for players who didn't star in college

I'm not really, the round you are drafted in is irrelevant, you either have it or you don't and you get injured or you don't.

All I'm saying is that just because some people believe that he will be drafted behind other QBs does not mean he won't be a superstar in the NFL.

Chucky the tree

eagle eye wrote: »

Bradford might go in the first round but he will not be the first QB drafted by the way, and imo his performance the other night will make a lot of teams have second thoughts and might drop him down quite a bit.
He has a lot going for him, but his performance when pressured the other night was to say the least.... worrying.

As for Tebow, if you are reading mock drafts you have to remember that Tebow is unlikely to come out this year and as a result he is not being seriously considered in drafts right now. I personally think that if he does decide to put himself in the draft you will see him jump up them mock draft lists. But for the moment he is expected to stay in Florida for another year.

Stafford will be the first QB and I think the lions will take him. Tebow asked the nfl to rank his draft status so he's definitly thinking about declaring. If he then decides to go back to college to me it's a clear sign he was told he wasnt going to be taken high at all or they didnt think he prjoected well. I dont know if another year in college will help him. He's still going to play in the same spread offense that doesnt fit in the nfl, I still he'll have the excact same Question marks over his head next year. H could well do it to become a real college legend though knowing he probaly wont be much in the nfl.

On the bradford issue, I wouldnt let 1 game cloud my judgement of him really, and if i was an nfl owner/GM/coach I'd much rather draft Bradford then Tebow.

Chucky the tree

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not really, the round you are drafted in is irrelevant, you either have it or you don't and you get injured or you don't.

All I'm saying is that just because some people believe that he will be drafted behind other QBs does not mean he won't be a superstar in the NFL.

eh, what? I'd say there alot more pro-bowler players taken in the first round then any other so I really dont see how you can say your draft round is irrelevant. Look at all the top QB's in the league now and see what round they were drafted in.

Dodge

For the record of the 8 QBs likely to start this weekend 6 were first round picks and two went undrafted

Kerry Collins Rd 1 - Pick 5
Ben Rothlisberger - Rd 1 - Pick 11
Philip Rivers Rd 1 - Pick 4
Joe Flacco Rd 1 - Pick 18
Donovan Mcnabb Rd - 1 Pick 2
Eli Manning Rd 1 - Pick 1
Kurt Warner - Undrafted
Jake Delhomme - Undrafted

tallaghtoutlaws

Chucky the tree wrote: »

eh, what? I'd say there alot more pro-bowler players taken in the first round then any other so I really dont see how you can say your draft round is irrelevant. Look at all the top QB's in the league now and see what round they were drafted in.

Ok here we go:

Here would be 23 of the NFLs finest no order just for show:

Favre - 2nd - - Future Hall of Famer
Brady - 6th - Future Hall of Famer
Manning P - 1st - - Future Hall of Famer
Brees - 2nd - Class Act
Warner - Undrafted - Class Act
Manning E - 1st - Future Hall of Famer?????
Cutler - 1st
McNabb - 1st
Delhomme - Undrafted
Cassel - 7th Future Hall of Famer??????
Big Ben - 1st
Edwards - 3rd
Rivers - 1st
Ryan - 1st - Future Hall of Famer?????
Flacco - 1st
Collins - 1st
Orton - 4th
Bulger - 6th
Pennington - 1st
Rodgers - 1st
Schaub - 3rd
Romo - Undrafted
Garcia - Undrafted

11 of these 23 guys were lower rounds or undrafted and in fact out of the 32 teams its nearly 50/50 with 1st round and lower rounds/undrafted

I put in 23 guys because there is always debate who is better. Make your own minds up.

Chucky the tree

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Ok here we go:

Here would be 23 of the NFLs finest no order just for show:

Favre - 2nd - - Future Hall of Famer
Brady - 6th - Future Hall of Famer
Manning P - 1st - - Future Hall of Famer
Brees - 2nd - Class Act
Warner - Undrafted - Class Act
Manning E - 1st - Future Hall of Famer?????
Cutler - 1st
McNabb - 1st
Delhomme - Undrafted
Cassel - 7th Future Hall of Famer??????
Big Ben - 1st
Edwards - 3rd
Rivers - 1st
Ryan - 1st - Future Hall of Famer?????
Flacco - 1st
Collins - 1st
Orton - 4th
Bulger - 6th
Pennington - 1st
Rodgers - 1st
Schaub - 3rd
Romo - Undrafted
Garcia - Undrafted

11 of these 23 guys were lower rounds or undrafted and in fact out of the 32 teams its nearly 50/50 with 1st round and lower rounds/undrafted

I put in 23 guys because there is always debate who is better. Make your own minds up.

I said top QB's for a reason. I think Dodge's point is alot better, even take it back to last week.

Phins - Pennington 1st round
Falcons - ryan 1st round
Colts - Manning 1st round
Vikings - Jackson 2nd round

Also, massive rofl at Matt Cassell being a future HOFer. :pac: Not only that but to claim he could be a future HOFer and to say Rivers isnt is also baffling.

tallaghtoutlaws

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I said top QB's for a reason. I think Dodge's point is alot better, even take it back to last week.

Phins - Pennington 1st round
Falcons - ryan 1st round
Colts - Manning 1st round
Vikings - Jackson 2nd round

Also, massive rofl at Matt Cassell being a future HOFer. :pac: Not only that but to claim he could be a future HOFer and to say Rivers isnt is also baffling.

What because their teams made the playoffs they are better QB's?????? Please Cassel is better than jackson any day as is Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Cutler..........Tell me when to stop. And Pats fans will appreciate my Cassel HOF joke it was suggested midweek he could do it. Personally I dont see it myself but who knows. A Brady retirement and a bounce back by the Pats anything is possible. Look at the season he had.

Chucky the tree

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

What because their teams made the playoffs they are better QB's?????? Please Cassel is better than jackson any day as is Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Cutler..........Tell me when to stop. And Pats fans will appreciate my Cassel HOF joke it was suggested midweek he could do it. Personally I dont see it myself but who knows. A Brady retirement and a bounce back by the Pats anything is possible. Look at the season he had.

Are you saying Cassell is better then Jackson, Brees, Rodgers and Cutler?! Cassell is a average QB who has done well in an excellent system. Once he's shipped out of NE he's in trouble.


I'll take your list of 23 and narrow it down a bit.

Top QB's:
Brady - 6th
Manning P - 1st
Brees - 2nd -
Warner - Undrafted
Manning E - 1st -
Cutler - 1st
McNabb - 1st
Rivers - 1st
Big Ben - 1st

Good QB's:
Del homme - Undrafted
Schuab - 3rd
Collins - 1st
Ryan - 1st
Flacco - 1st
Bulgers 6th
Pennington - 1st
Rodger - 1st
Romo - undrafted
Carson Palmer - 1st

18 QB's, 5 were taken past the 2nd round. I think it goes a distance to disprove eagles point that where you are drafted is irrelavent.

tallaghtoutlaws

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Are you saying Cassell is better then Jackson, Brees, Rodgers and Cutler?! Cassell is a average QB who has done well in an excellent system. Once he's shipped out of NE he's in trouble.


I'll take your list of 23 and narrow it down a bit.

Top QB's:
Brady - 6th
Manning P - 1st
Brees - 2nd -
Warner - Undrafted
Manning E - 1st -
Cutler - 1st
McNabb - 1st
Rivers - 1st
Big Ben - 1st

Good QB's:
Del homme - Undrafted
Schuab - 3rd
Collins - 1st
Ryan - 1st
Flacco - 1st
Bulgers 6th
Pennington - 1st
Rodger - 1st
Romo - undrafted
Carson Palmer - 1st

18 QB's, 5 were taken past the 2nd round. I think it goes a distance to disprove eagles point that where you are drafted is irrelavent.

All of them are better than Jackson. Some better than Pennington who also made the playoffs.

And Brett Favre isnt a good QB? And Orton also? And Please Cassel is above average and will be excellent and he aint gone from NE yet will most likely play 2009. To say he is average and it was the system alone and not Cassel's abilities that helped the Patriots this year is naive. Sure he had Moss and Welker but to step in there in the shadow of Tom Brady and do as well as he did shows talent. I for one thougt he would choke and wasnt prepared to give him time but he did the job for us. Our downfall losing to Dolphins early on in his second start.

Chucky the tree

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

All of them are better than Jackson. Some better than Pennington who also made the playoffs.

And Brett Favre isnt a good QB? And Orton also? And Please Cassel is above average and will be excellent and he aint gone from NE yet will most likely play 2009. To say he is average and it was the system alone and not Cassel's abilities that helped the Patriots this year is naive. Sure he had Moss and Welker but to step in there in the shadow of Tom Brady and do as well as he did shows talent. I for one thougt he would choke and wasnt prepared to give him time but he did the job for us. Our downfall losing to Dolphins early on in his second start.

All of them are better then Jackosn, but all of them went ahead of Jackson in the draft which also helps my point. I never said Jackson was good, he's useless but I just made the point that I dont think it's hugely suprising that the majority of the teams in the play-offs drafted their QB's in the first or 2nd round.

Farve is an awful QB, but he was still a 2nd rounder which is quite high. I dont rate Orton much either.

I think Cassell had a big advantage of having a very easy schedule.

tallaghtoutlaws

Chucky the tree wrote: »

All of them are better then Jackosn, but all of them went ahead of Jackson in the draft which also helps my point. I never said Jackson was good, he's useless but I just made the point that I dont think it's hugely suprising that the majority of the teams in the play-offs drafted their QB's in the first or 2nd round.

Farve is an awful QB, but he was still a 2nd rounder which is quite high. I dont rate Orton much either.

I think Cassell had a big advantage of having a very easy schedule.

Brett Favre an awful QB wtf are you smoking.And Cassel went 7th round. And the fact you think Brett Favre is an awful QB mutes your whole point in my opinion. Even this year was a good year for him in the sense he came into a system late with no pre-season and went 10-6. The Jets lost it down the stretch but hardly Favre fault. The Jets depended solely on Favre and this was their downfall considering they had a decent running game. But to say Brett Favre is awful man thats weak.

And I love the way people still say the Patriots schedule was easy. On paper from the start of the season I would have agreed based on lasts years performances from the Jets and Dolphins but in fairness both those teams gave some of the teams in the playoffs a run for their money and this year the Pats went 2-4 against teams that made the playoffs. So you are saying the Colts, Steelers, Cardinals, Chargers even the Dolphins were weak? The only push over was the Bills and Raiders. The fact of the matter is 2 of the AFC East teams went 11-5 and one went 10-6 so this was a real easy scheule for the Pats for sure :rolleyes:

And back to the draft. How many teams have picked flops in the 1st round. There was a statitistic around somewhere that showed the comparision and numbers of actual first rounders that made it. Off course most NFL teams if they need a QB will go 1st round if they can as these guys are supposed to be the best. But lets not forget the amount of guys that were picked and failed miserably.

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

All of them are better then Jackosn, but all of them went ahead of Jackson in the draft which also helps my point. I never said Jackson was good, he's useless but I just made the point that I dont think it's hugely suprising that the majority of the teams in the play-offs drafted their QB's in the first or 2nd round.

Farve is an awful QB, but he was still a 2nd rounder which is quite high. I dont rate Orton much either.

I think Cassell had a big advantage of having a very easy schedule.

This is the most ridiculous statement that I have ever seen in this forum. Brett Favre is one of the greatest QB's of all time and he plays for the Jets now and its rare that you will get me to praise a Jet, as a matter of fact I think thats the first time in ten years.

As for the rest of it, Cassell was impressive after a shaky start. He was poor against Miami when we lost to them, and that cost us the playoffs. He made up for that in the return game with an outstanding performance.

Oh and just to tell you about other QBs, the guy I liken Tim Tebow to the most was considered to be hopeless by Tampa Bay after two seasons with them, he could run with the ball in college and he could throw the ball. His name is Steve Young.

And you mention the current crop of Quarterbacks,

Well here is a list for you and they are all hall of famers, I'll let you guess before you look and decide who were first round drafts and who were not.

Joe Montana

3rd round

Dan Marino

1st round

Warren Moon

Undrafted

Jim Kelly

1st round

I didn't put Steve Young in there because he did not go through the draft as he joined the USFL after college. It didn't work out and he was first pick in the supplemental draft.

davyjose

Steve Young - a Rushing QB, who just happens to have the highest Career Passer Rating of anyone past or present. Legend. (Not like that Crappy Favre fella :rolleyes:)

Seriously, when a QB can run or pass, and do both well, it makes it twice harder for the defense to read him. You Blitz him, he runs, throws, who knows. Personally I'm not 100% sure Cassell has fully proven he's got what it takes, but his running game did him no harm in most people's estimations. I'm sure Tebow can at least aspire to the lofty levels of Matt Cassell.

Chucky the tree

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Brett Favre an awful QB wtf are you smoking.And Cassel went 7th round. And the fact you think Brett Favre is an awful QB mutes your whole point in my opinion. Even this year was a good year for him in the sense he came into a system late with no pre-season and went 10-6. The Jets lost it down the stretch but hardly Favre fault. The Jets depended solely on Favre and this was their downfall considering they had a decent running game. But to say Brett Favre is awful man thats weak.

And I love the way people still say the Patriots schedule was easy. On paper from the start of the season I would have agreed based on lasts years performances from the Jets and Dolphins but in fairness both those teams gave some of the teams in the playoffs a run for their money and this year the Pats went 2-4 against teams that made the playoffs. So you are saying the Colts, Steelers, Cardinals, Chargers even the Dolphins were weak? The only push over was the Bills and Raiders. The fact of the matter is 2 of the AFC East teams went 11-5 and one went 10-6 so this was a real easy scheule for the Pats for sure :rolleyes:

Would you want Farve to be QB for the Pats next year? I am going on the current level of QB's, and Farve is one of the worst starting QB's in the league at the moment. If anyone else put up the numbers Farve did this year they would be slaughtered. Seriously, a equal TD:Int ratio is pathetic.

Look at the pass Defences Cassell faced. Chargers(31st in the league), Seahawks(32nd), broncos(26th) Jets(29th), Cardinals(22nd), cheifs(28th), Dolphins(26th), Rams (19th), 49ers(20th). The only push over was the bills and raiders says it all. you played 3 of the 5 worst teams in the nfl and still struggled against them. Rams, Seahawks, Raiders, 49ers, chiefs, Broncos, Bills and chargers didnt have winning records and you played them all, I'd call that easy enough. A similair reason the dolphins and Jets did so well, also the Jets went 9-7 and not 10-6.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

And back to the draft. How many teams have picked flops in the 1st round. There was a statitistic around somewhere that showed the comparision and numbers of actual first rounders that made it. Off course most NFL teams if they need a QB will go 1st round if they can as these guys are supposed to be the best. But lets not forget the amount of guys that were picked and failed miserably.

Of course there are picks in the first round that dont work about. but there's alot more in the later rounds that fail.

Look at the list of pro-bowlers from the recent drafts.

2007 - 5 from the first round, none in the 2nd or 3rd, 1 in the 4th, 1 in the 6th,

2006 - 6 from the 1st round, 3 from the 2nd, 3 from the 3rd. 1 from the next 3 rounds.

2005 - 7 in the first, 4 in the 2nd, 2 in the 3rd, 2 in the 4th and 1 in the 5th

2004 - 14 in the first, 2 in the 2nd, 3 in the 3rd,

and it's pretty much the same all the way through.

eagle eye wrote: »

Oh and just to tell you about other QBs, the guy I liken Tim Tebow to the most was considered to be hopeless by Tampa Bay after two seasons with them, he could run with the ball in college and he could throw the ball. His name is Steve Young.

And you mention the current crop of Quarterbacks,

Well here is a list for you and they are all hall of famers, I'll let you guess before you look and decide who were first round drafts and who were not.

Joe Montana

3rd round

Dan Marino

1st round

Warren Moon

Undrafted

Jim Kelly

1st round

I didn't put Steve Young in there because he did not go through the draft as he joined the USFL after college. It didn't work out and he was first pick in the supplemental draft.

I fail too see the point of this. For every Steve young there's alot more Vince young's. And Vince Young was considered a much better prospect then Tebow.


Edit - Do you all think that it's some big conspiracy against Tebow that no one has him going in the first few rounds of the draft or is it just everyone else doesnt have a clue about football? If the three of you were the Lions GM would you take Tebow ahead of Stafford and Bradford with the 1st pick if you had to take a QB?

Black Swan

eagle eye wrote: »

Oh and Blue Lagoon thats some Crystal Ball you have.:)

USC by 14 over Penn State and Florida by 10 over Oklahoma?

Think I can sell it on e-bay? I'm a starving student and could use the cash.:D

eagle eye

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

USC by 14 over Penn State and Florida by 10 over Oklahoma?

Think I can sell it on e-bay? I'm a starving student and could use the cash.:D

Yeah, very impressive.

Pyjamarama

Tebow ain't going to make it in the NFL imo. People who talk about college performances need the realise the HUGE gulf in class between your average NFL and College player.

Tebow will not shake off linebackers in the NFL the same way that Vince Young can't just lower his shoulder to make them bounce off him like he did in college.

Eagle Eye is talking about how the 4th quarter shows how succesful he could be but did anyone see Young against USC? He beat them on his own winning it at the death, he's still a bust in the NFL imo.

Hell Reggie Bush may well be the greatest college running back in recent times but he was nowhere near the pro prospect that AP was (discounting the injuries), that's when you actually look into the real scouting reports as opposed to ESPN specials.

eagle eye

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Tebow ain't going to make it in the NFL imo. People who talk about college performances need the realise the HUGE gulf in class between your average NFL and College player.

Tebow will not shake off linebackers in the NFL the same way that Vince Young can't just lower his shoulder to make them bounce off him like he did in college.

Eagle Eye is talking about how the 4th quarter shows how succesful he could be but did anyone see Young against USC? He beat them on his own winning it at the death, he's still a bust in the NFL imo.

Hell Reggie Bush may well be the greatest college running back in recent times but he was nowhere near the pro prospect that AP was (discounting the injuries), that's when you actually look into the real scouting reports as opposed to ESPN specials.

Ok, everybody keeps talking about Vince Young. I mentioned Steve Young earlier but you don't mention him. I'll mention someone else, long time Heisman favourite this year, Colt McCoy.

And my question who would you most liken Tebow to, Colt McCoy or Vince Young?

There are huge differences in their college careers, Young had huge yardage in the air in a weaker division defensively than the current SEC. He was a class act in college and we all thought he would make it in the pro game. Remember a lot of people had questions regarding his style of throw and the fact that it might cause him problems in the NFL.
I don't think the two are as similar as Tebow is with Steve Young in college or Colt McCoy. There are a lot of similarites between them three players. I think McCoy will make it in the pros when he goes, and Young certainly made it.
On Vince Young though, he has had a terrible start to his NFL career but remember Steve Young had a terrible start as well and is now a Hall of Famer. People are too quick imo to call someone a bust. The coaching, tactics etc. in the NFL on any given team might just not work for a player. Who knows he could end up moving to a team thats better suited to his talents. I'd like to see how he gets on next year, I believe he has been working with Steve McNair and also with Collins, McNair might be able to help him out. I don't know if you remember the controversy over his wonderlic score, but even with the official wonderlic score that he was given, there are questions over how big of a playbook you can have with him. And thats a whole other matter.

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I fail too see the point of this. For every Steve young there's alot more Vince young's. And Vince Young was considered a much better prospect then Tebow.


Edit - Do you all think that it's some big conspiracy against Tebow that no one has him going in the first few rounds of the draft or is it just everyone else doesnt have a clue about football? If the three of you were the Lions GM would you take Tebow ahead of Stafford and Bradford with the 1st pick if you had to take a QB?

I'm not going any further with the Favre thing, suffice to say I think you are alone with your thoughts there.

I've mentioned just above about Vince Young and we'll leave that where it is.
Conspiracy?? What are you talking about, I personally think that Bradford has serious question marks over him after the game against Florida. Stafford looks like he could make it in the NFL for sure.

I believe that Tebow will be a superstar in the NFL, maybe I will be proven wrong. There are enough people who think he won't make it, thats for sure.
I just think that the passion, desire to win, leadership on and off the field, and all his athletic attributes along with his magnificent arm make him a certain winner at any level. He is a bright kid and you need that to make it at QB in the pros also. Too many times you see guys who look the business and low and behold they don't have the head for it nor the heart for it. You can be certain that Tim Tebow will not be lacking in those departments.
Time will tell us how he does and I await his progression with major interest.
Now why you compare Young to him all the time is beyond me as well, he was the third pick in the draft despite all the question marks surrounding at the time of the draft. That was a risk taken by the Titans, and who knows it might still work out. But if you believe that Tebow will not be a first round pick than why compare him to someone who was. The reason I put in the QB's and their draft rounds was to show you that the 'experts' are often wrong. Montana, Young and Brady are certain proof of that as is Vince Young up to this point, Michael Vick, Alex Smith and many others.
Funnily I remeber before the draft last year I was saying that the top teams would be foolish not to take Matt Ryan and you were saying that the QBs on offer were not up to much iirc. We now have Ryan and Flacco as starters doing impressive jobs.

Hynzie

In my opinion the thing that you have to consider while evaluating these guys is their potential for development and what their ceiling is. I think we can all agree that you could not throw even the best college QB onto a pro team right now and expect them to succeed. Thats one of the reasons why they have mini camps and training camps, so these guys can be coached up. For example take the prototypical bust Ryan Leaf and everyones favorite draft steal Tom Brady. Leaf was a stud at Washington State but he did not improve when he got to the NFL. His ceiling was college and thus he burned out in the pros. Brady wasnt great at Michigan but he developed when he went pro and has become an all time great. Its the same reason the Patriots drafted Cassell. He didnt play in college but they saw enough talent and room for improvement in him to draft him.

Tebow is unreal in college theres no disputing that. But many scouts believe thats as good as he will get and that wont cut it in the pros as a QB. His other traits such as his leadership and toughness are amazing but he is not a natural passer. Thats why people are saying he should change positions.

Pyjamarama

I think Steve Young is a poor comparison. Steve Young would not be running the ball in todays NFL. Defenses are bigger faster and stronger than they were in his day.

I just don't think that Tebow has what it takes to stay in the pocket and beat teams with his arms. Too many shaky throws with poor touch imo. As i'm sure most people posting here have, i've watched him a ton the last 3 seasons and he's rarely shown the ability to squeeze it into tight spots.

He'll be an NFL player but i'd be shocked if it's a QB. I could imagine him being given a shot at QB and then making the move to WR.

To be honest I see him as about the same level of prospect as Troy Smith was. Maybe a little higher as he has probably got better leadership qualities but he doesn't read the game remotely well enough for a top NFL prospect.

davyjose

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Steve Young would not be running the ball in todays NFL. Defenses are bigger faster and stronger than they were in his day.

In that case he wouldn't have the same status IMO. The ability to scramble was a HUGE part of his game and one of the reasons why he was such a dangerous QB.

Also, I don't see how Tebow won't make it as a QB, but will as a WR. He's never even played there. He'll either be a QB or nothing.