Do you care where your clothes come from?

pynchy

I thought i would do a little poll to see if people are thinking about the ethics of clothes production.

partyguinness

It doesnt bother me TBH. I sometimes buy underwear in Dunnes as opposes to Brown Thomas. Thats my bit for the less well off...:p

Seriously though its doesnt bother me. Just because clothes are made in Vietnam does not mean they are being made by a poor 5 year old working 15 hours a day. Where would his family be without the local sweat shop? Probably in a lot worse state.

I am not advocating inhumane work conditions etc but it is a lot more complex than what some bleeding heart hippies would like to make out.

pynchy

partyguinness wrote: »

It doesnt bother me TBH. I sometimes buy underwear in Dunnes as opposes to Brown Thomas. Thats my bit for the less well off...:p

Seriously though its doesnt bother me. Just because clothes are made in Vietnam does not mean they are being made by a poor 5 year old working 15 hours a day. Where would his family be without the local sweat shop? Probably in a lot worse state.

I am not advocating inhumane work conditions etc but it is a lot more complex than what some bleeding heart hippies would like to make out.

well its also the quality issue, of course not all the factories are inhumane.

Anyway its nothing serious just a poll.

PrivateEye

Its called living under capitalism, it's inevitable you'll end up putting money in the pockets of nasty gits. If I'm thirsty in college, I might end up buying a Coca-Cola. From the top-end to the bottom, Lacoste to Penneys, you're probably dealing with sweatshop labour. Very little you can do about it sadly, as 'fair-trade clothing' is often the most expensive!

I admit to being guilty here, especially as somebody who would be most firmly on the left. There's little ethics in clothes production to be honest. I've a fair bit of clothing that was made in the U.K etc., but I imagine the stack from Chinas a fair bit bigger!

I can see partyguinness' point to a degree, but on the otherhand, just because people are living in crap doesn't mean a corporation can take advantage of them. If you pay somebody 20p to make a polo shirt, fair enough they're 20p better off....but it still shouldn't be commended.

There are some inroads being made in recent times when it comes to fire safety, union rights etc. Small steps etc.

As a student part-time worker, I can't exactly research where every pair of shoes came from or anything, like I said we all do it, and its just part of the global situation we're in.

I'm not a bleeding heart hippie, in fact nothing stands more in the way of progress than soft liberal types.

Peoples own economic constraits can mean they end up funding companies they may disagree with out and out, hence the 'save the trees' type movements are often made up of celebs and well-to-dos. I probably shouldn't wear X tshirt or Y trousers, but the wallet only goes so far etc.

pynchy

nice reply PrivateEye,

Absolutely, if people can just do what they can.

There are countless documentaries about corporations and how they handle their factories and consumers.

Mclibel
Left and debt
there's loads.

ArphaRima

What country clothes come from does not dictate the conditions that the workers live in.

I lived in Vietnam for years. The likes of Nike etc were amongst the best employers out there. Working on a farm would earn you a dollar a day. Working in a local owned factory around 4 at least, going up to 8 for an international.

Thats massive money there.

Just one case, but the likes of cheap clothing in Dunnes etc source their goods from local bottom-feeding suppliers. They are far worse than the internationals. Different local laws even apply to them.

pynchy

Yep its pretty much impossible to tell what to support.

Penneys was exposed last year as having factories that were far below humane conditions.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/penneys-51m-dividend-amid-sweatshop-claims-138024.html

so basicly we need people exposing large companies and then we can steer clear if possible.

PrivateEye

http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/sweatshops/nike/faq.html

I'm not an expert on the issue of sweat-shops, I know very little about the issue to be honest but found the above to make for good reading.

And yep,as fluffer said the cheaper the item to buy....its likely the cheaper it was to produce. If you can sell a t-shirt for €2, I'd hate to say the wageslip of the bloke who made it.

rainbow kirby

When I'm as broke as I am, I can't afford to be choosy. That said, in terms of running shoes, I do have a slight preference for New Balance ones, which are all made in the US.

pynchy

quote=Nike has indeed brought many jobs to Southeast Asia, and workers certainly want jobs. But they want their dignity, too. They don't want to be physically or verbally abused by their supervisors or to work excessive overtime for extremely low wages. Job creation and worker exploitation should not go hand in hand. It is not enough to simply create jobs; Nike should be creating opportunities and prosperity, paying wages that allow its workers to pull themselves out of poverty.

quote from the link PrivateEye posted.

pynchy

rainbow kirby wrote: »

When I'm as broke as I am, I can't afford to be choosy. That said, in terms of running shoes, I do have a slight preference for New Balance ones, which are all made in the US.

on that note, if the tag says made in USA that is probably a good thing as the factory workers will not be exploited... eg
american apparel, organic and eco friendly but still great!

this is not the case with all american companies though as the USA owns a number of areas in developing countries (literally they own a plot of land in the country which they call american soil, this allows them to say made in usa.) where they exploit workers from the local community.- life and debt docu..

acorntoast

A few years ago I attended a series of lectures on Economics for Activists, and I was really interested to learn some of the positive impacts of globalization.

Here's a link with some more info on the subject

(her slant is a bit one sided I reckon, but the stats on life expectancy speak for themselves)

The basic gist is that globalization increases, life expectancy goes up.

It's stark as hell, but if I were given the choice between my child dying, or my working in a factory with sub-western european, non-unionised working conditions I know which one I'd choose.

Pythia

I buy what I like. Tags don't bother me.

espinolman

Fabrics are being genetically engineered :http://http://www.earthpledge.org/press/ff/06_07_GR_USAToday.pdf

i care about the environment , so i am going to buy my own organic fabric and make my own clothes .

Pythia

espinolman wrote: »

Fabrics are being genetically engineered :http://http://www.earthpledge.org/press/ff/06_07_GR_USAToday.pdf

i care about the environment , so i am going to buy my own organic fabric and make my own clothes .

Seriously? lol

espinolman

Pythia wrote: »

Seriously? lol

Yes seriously , they are even putting RFID tracking microchips into clothes , its just total tyranny :

http://news.cnet.com/2010-1069-980325.html

i like making clothes , so i will make my own trousers, shirts and skirts .

speedboatchase

Don't check, don't care. American Apparel is rubbish quality and over-priced. Johan Norberg put it nicely. :

"(sweatshop critics) say that we shouldn't buy from countries like Vietnam because of its labor standards, they've got it all wrong. They're saying: "Look, you are too poor to trade with us. And that means that we won't trade with you. We won't buy your goods until you're as rich as we are." That's totally backwards. These countries won't get rich without being able to export goods."

pynchy

wow.

well it looks like just about nobody cares.

ArphaRima

Wow, it looks like you didnt read the thread fully.

A lot of people said it didnt matter where it was from, not that they cared whether or not inhumane conditions were in place in the factories.

The nationality of the producer guarantees very little.

pynchy

I understand, I was commenting on the poll which overwhelmingly suggests the majority does not care.

The title of the poll does not say "do you care what country your clothes comes from" but "...where your clothes come from".

I understand the thread discussion started to lean more towards political boundaries and whether we can actually find out where clothes are manufactured.

Its ok none of this has any baring on your statutory rights as a consumer.;)

ArphaRima

I see your point. But I thought too that "where they are from" meant which nation or region as opposed to type of employer.

I think people would agree that all workers deserve to be paid a fair wage, and work in a respectful workplace.

People who just look at numbers do not get the whole picture. For example somebody earning 5-7 dollars a day in Cambodia, rural China, or Vietnam is earning a decent wage. He will have a home and motorbike, and his kids will go to school. It's not exploitation. It's the reason globalisation has had the effect of moving many out of poverty.
The fields surrounding these factories have subsistence farmers earning in most cases less than a dollar a day.

It's all about perspective. Numbers alone dont work.
That was my point.

brianthebard

speedboatchase wrote: »

Don't check, don't care. American Apparel is rubbish quality and over-priced. Johan Norberg put it nicely. :

"(sweatshop critics) say that we shouldn't buy from countries like Vietnam because of its labor standards, they've got it all wrong. They're saying: "Look, you are too poor to trade with us. And that means that we won't trade with you. We won't buy your goods until you're as rich as we are." That's totally backwards. These countries won't get rich without being able to export goods."

Johan Norberg doesn't understand how countries develop. How does he think a nation is going to develop if there is zero infrastructure outside of the factories and their immediate needs, the companies pay a pittance for labour and materials, then take all profits and invest them in a different country (the companies homeland)?

pynchy

as long as fundemantal human rights are maintained, of course its all good and also you would have to be a supporter of globalisation in a capitalist society.

If the quality is good and the conditions are fair I'm all for it, but if I ever find out that clothes are being made in a sweat shop or suituation where the local enviroment is being poluted I would simply choose to buy somewhere else.

(investing the profits in a country other than the country of manufacture is the downside to a global capitalist society, companies have the same rights as humans only that they have no morals)

aloevera

nice one PrivateEye...

well it doesnt bother me either, mostly due to the fact that i dont reearch where clothes are madde etc.. i agree with OP that all not only Pennys clothes, but also designer label clothes are being produced unfairly shall we say..

i know a woman who wont shop at a particular shop due to the 'poverty endured by those in China that are producing...' etc... and yet this woman is into all the crap of the day such as sovenuirs which, if she did take any care to notice, most likely have a wee stamp saying 'Made in China'.
:mad:get a grip!! hypocrite or what.

pynchy

absolutely loads of high end designer stuff is made many miles away.

Yeah its really tough to tell the conditions something was made in but if everyone kinda just said
"i'm not buying that unless its proven to be made in humane conditions" every major manufacturer would have to do it or face loosing customers thus really helping the local communities.

anniehoo

What in gods name is a

espinolman wrote: »

RFID tracking microchip.

Is it to find out whos bedroom floor your Pennys thong ends up on? :D

pynchy

anniehoo wrote: »

What in gods name is a Is it to find out whos bedroom floor your Pennys thong ends up on? :D

haha
or better see who has been wearing your pennys thong and where!

sparewheel

i cant afford to be picky ha