Hoping to start a music production course in the sound training center,temple bar

Rodent Queen

Has anyone done this course before? The open day is on February 28th. The course is for a year and it looks promising so far.

My reasons for doing this course is so I can learn how to produce/record my own music properly and not have to rely on people to do it anymore. (Sounds control freakish yes?) I'll be doing sound engineering, and theory as part of my course too which will come in handy.....

Can anyone recommend a few other courses or give me feedback on the one Im about to do?

Another reason for my doing this course is my love of electronica music and wanting to bring a lot more of that into my music and also be able to do it live.

Help much appreciated!!!!

seannash

have you tried to produce at home?

AARRRGH

Walton's do software studio and home recording courses which are a fraction of the price.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

i think youd be better of ( partic with electronic music ) to just
download reaper , get a pc or mac a good set of headphones and good but cheap midi interface / soundacard and start experimenting first.

plenty of free music plugins , drum machines and synths out there to make music .

see how you get on before forking out for a course .

if you are into electronica - then the ins and outs of mics . drums and guitar recording aint going to be much use .

af_thefragile

I did the part time course.
It was quite fun. Learnt loads of suff about production n all. Its a great course for a beginner to get familiarised with the industry and learn the basics of production.
The lads there are really good and fun. You'll have a fun time.

Though about learning and how useful the course is, i only did the part time course and as i mentioned it was a good course to get me started on the right path. Now i don't feel the need to go and do another production course. I can teach myself the rest.
About the full time course, i'm not very sure about the job prospects once you've completed the course. I herd a lot of students there becoming free lance sound engineers and producers and a few had got themselves decent jobs but i don't think its a very secure segment of Irish economy!


Hearing from what you wanna do the course for (which is to produce electronica music and record n producer your music yourself), i'ld say just do the part time course if you wanna do anything. Its a bit pricey though. I think you can find cheaper courses else where. But i did the part time course and as i said i learnt a good bit and had a good fun time learning it.

Rodent Queen

seannash wrote: »

have you tried to produce at home?

At the minute I have ableton live...and to be honest, I'm finding it pretty difficult to work with....So I figured if I'm going to learn, may aswel learn it properly. And from somebody who knows their stuff.....

Also just picked up reason there the other day so I'll be messing about on that later on too.

When I mentioned electronica, I ment an element of it to my music. Not completely...Theres piano,drums,guitars and vocals. So im looking for the whole shebang

Rodent Queen

af_thefragile wrote: »

I did the part time course.
It was quite fun. Learnt loads of suff about production n all. Its a great course for a beginner to get familiarised with the industry and learn the basics of production.
The lads there are really good and fun. You'll have a fun time.

Though about learning and how useful the course is, i only did the part time course and as i mentioned it was a good course to get me started on the right path. Now i don't feel the need to go and do another production course. I can teach myself the rest.
About the full time course, i'm not very sure about the job prospects once you've completed the course. I herd a lot of students there becoming free lance sound engineers and producers and a few had got themselves decent jobs but i don't think its a very secure segment of Irish economy!


Hearing from what you wanna do the course for (which is to produce electronica music and record n producer your music yourself), i'ld say just do the part time course if you wanna do anything. Its a bit pricey though. I think you can find cheaper courses else where. But i did the part time course and as i said i learnt a good bit and had a good fun time learning it.

Do you reckon you learn enough in the part time course? Is it difficult to be accepted into? It didnt mention needing any qualifications or anything....Seeing as I dont have a leaving certificate Im slightly worried...:(

DamagedTrax

its a private course so you probably wont need leaving cert (we dont need one in pulse)

Rodent Queen

DamagedTrax wrote: »

its a private course so you probably wont need leaving cert (we dont need one in pulse)

Whats pulse like actually?

DamagedTrax

its pretty cool. lecturers are great and some of the gear we get our hands on is cool. plus its the only certified digi pro-school here.

just remember that neither course will teach you a whole lot about the production end in electronic music.. for that you'd either do it yourself or get a producer from the scene to give you lessons, hint hint ;-)

Rodent Queen

They wont?

DamagedTrax

nope. they're engineering courses. they'll teach you all about midi and recording and electronics and live engineering blah blah but they can only give you the tools to do your own stuff, they cant tell you how to do it. production isnt something that can be taught, more something that has to be learned (if you know what i mean?)

Rodent Queen

As long as i know how to use the equipment properly then im happy

DamagedTrax

that they will teach you

af_thefragile

Rodent Queen wrote: »

Do you reckon you learn enough in the part time course? Is it difficult to be accepted into? It didnt mention needing any qualifications or anything....Seeing as I dont have a leaving certificate Im slightly worried...:(

Nope, i had no problem getting in. Though i had my leaving cert with a fairly decent score and kinda also was acquainted with Lez (the "principal" of the place) before the course started. But i don't think you'll have too much problem getting in as long as you pay the fees.

As i stated, it was a good experience. I didn't know much bout sound engineering and production before i got in the course. In the course we had classes on using programs like Reason and Cubase to create electronic music. We had some classes on music theory (though very basic music theory). We had classes in the studio where we spent time recording stuff on the analogue desk and mixing it and learning about connectors and all that techy stuff. We had audio editing classes on Pro Tools LE. We had a few classes on the Pro Tools HD system to where we'ld record and mix some stuff on the HD system.

Its a good course to get yourself familiarised with the industry and learn the basics of production and sound engineering. Its also quite fun, especially the studio classes where we'ld record guitars, vocals, drums etc and then mix them. Even the lads are really laid back and its all very fun and easy going.

I'ld say there's no harm doing the course as long as you can afford it. But i'ld say don't expect too much out of it. It'll surely give you a good foundation to get started in the field of music production but don't expect to become a pro with a job in a studio by the end of the course. It'll leave you at a near intermediate level of skill in production and sound engineering...

Again as damagedtrax said. Production is not something that can be taught. Its kinda like learning to play an instrument say the guitar. In the course they'll teach you all about the guitar, how it works, different parts of it, how its supposed to be played, let you have a go at it, let you get familiarised with playing it etc. But then if you wanna write songs on it in your own style, you'll have to learn and develop that skill yourself. All it takes it practice and time...

Jimbo808

I attended the Sound Training Centre for two years (finished last year) and studied the Music Tech and Sound Engineering course, full time so if you have any direct questions fire away.

J*808

studiorat

Question you should ask yourself is why do you want to fork out; what? €4,500 or so, to do the course.

If you are seriously considering a a career in sound maybe you should try and get some work experience somewhere and do the course. If you just want to play music you should start getting some gigs and spend a year concentrating on that.

There's also lots of much cheaper full time courses around too.

Rodent Queen

Jimbo808 wrote: »

I attended the Sound Training Centre for two years (finished last year) and studied the Music Tech and Sound Engineering course, full time so if you have any direct questions fire away.

J*808

And what did you gain from it? Do you think its worth it?

Jimbo808

Will post a full reply in about an hour.

J*808

Rodent Queen

Whopper buzz.

And thank you to all who replied

dav nagle

All the sound staff in Vicar street told me that it was a waste of time, sorry. They said that they never touched a desk in their time there which to me sounds a bit dodgy but then again maybe the course has changed and is simply amazing I never did it myself.

Jimbo808

ok, I'm back! haha

I'm not going to get into the in's and out's and opinions of this. I'm going to go with pure facts.

- I studied in STC for two years (2006 - 2007 & 2007 - 2008)
- I went in with a degree in Computer Science and One year at Newpark
school of Jazz (PMTC)
- My goal was to dive head first into the recording industry.
- I had some self taught knowledge of Cubase and Reason, nothing major.

After two years:

- Received City and Guild Level 2 and 3 Diplomas
- Music Theory Grade 5
- Pro Tools 101
- Trained on SSL 4400+ G series and Neve 72 VR legend aswell as huge range of outboard (Distressors, 1176s, Manleys and on and on) This was all at Temple Lane recording studios.
- Assisted on multiple professional projects.
- Engineered and mixed a wide selection of acts myself in a professional and paid situation. Be it in Elektra in my first year to a full album engineering in my second Year.
- Trained on the D-show Profile (small footprint Digidesign Venue desk) and Soundcraft MH-3 monitor board.
- Industry standard training and experience on multiple software platforms such as:
- Logic 8
- Pro Tools 7.4
- Reason 4
- Cubase 4 (all of which were available to me at any time)
- Visited the AES in Holland as a field trip.

I could go into a lot more detail and if anyone would like to know more just send me a PM. I'll finish by discussing the Pro's and Con's as I saw them:

Cons

Expensive: 4,500 grand a year. This I presume goes to overheads of the college because there is a lot of gear, a lot of staff and a lot to maintain. Students however were given full use of the studios to make back their money through engineering.

Elitist: No matter what anyone says, there is a severely "Holier than thou" attitude bred from colleges like this. It's very hard to maintain an uncorrupted attitude. This is down to each person though I guess.

Workforce: There is little or no emphasis on finding all students jobs at the end of the years study. This I will presume can be defended against by saying that the industry is tough and that only the fittest survive yada yada yada. I will also say that flooding a workforce with qualified people with little or no recruitment structure is detrimental to everyone's career, not just their own and also partly responsible for the Industry losing it's professional status.

Pros

Experience: Without colleges like this it will take 90% of people twice as long (minimum) to gain the experience and knowledge that is acquired at the end of study. They really do know their stuff and know what it takes to succeed.

Gear: No other college in Ireland gives you this much access to pro gear, regardless of what anyone else will tell you. I mean this in a factual manner. Other colleges may excel in teaching or other fields but STC i firmly think has the upper hand in studio access.

Staff: The staff at the college were experienced, realistic, gear crazy, highly intelligent and a lot of the time, working at some other facet of the industry. This reinforces the knowledge being taught as it comes from a reliable source.


Finally I will say this: I got so much from my two years in this college because I worked my *ss off. I worked part time jobs in the evening to pay for it until it got to a stage where I could rely on engineering, teaching and live work to keep me afloat. If you want all the above and access to everything you have to be seen as reliable and trusthworthy. This may mean working as an assistant and making tea for no money on occassion (as I did) until you've earned your stripes. The lads at the college and Temple Lane Recording are a good judge of honest character and will reward those who work a lot, don't b*tch and show a real hunger to be a part of it. You may not agree with everyone personally, but they won't lie to you.

To summarise, expect very little sleep!

J*808

DamagedTrax

Jimbo808 wrote: »

Gear: No other college in Ireland gives you this much access to pro gear, regardless of what anyone else will tell you. I mean this in a factual manner. Other colleges may excel in teaching or other fields but STC i firmly think has the upper hand in studio access.

i'd have to disagree there. the kit list in pulse is just as good, we have tons of hands on in the engine room with the rembrandt desk and the 5.1 surround studio is possibly the best sounding mix room ive heard yet.

(although you are a **** for getting to train on that ssl )

studiorat

DamagedTrax wrote: »

(although you are a **** for getting to train on that ssl )

A desk is a desk, SSl, Neve what ever doesn't really matter.
Any large format console would do, if you know that half well you can sit at any desk.

DamagedTrax

studiorat wrote: »

A desk is a desk, SSl, Neve what ever doesn't really matter.
Any large format console would do, if you know that half well you can sit at any desk.

not my point in the slightest. was talking about the sound of the G.

studiorat

DamagedTrax wrote: »

not my point in the slightest. was talking about the sound of the G.

It's alright I suppose.
Gimme an E series any day...

seannash

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i'd have to disagree there. the kit list in pulse is just as good, we have tons of hands on in the engine room with the rembrandt desk and the 5.1 surround studio is possibly the best sounding mix room ive heard yet.

(although you are a **** for getting to train on that ssl )

pulse is a fantastic facility.i did a year course there.disasterous effort at being a student on my part but i must say its a top notch place.

Jimbo808

Yeah I heard that the gear at Pulse is something else.
I wasn't putting down any other facilities though, all I meant was
that STC has an edge due to the amount of studio facilities
available. 6 plus Grouse Lodge?

J*808

Rodent Queen

Where exactly is pulse? Is there a website for it....?

DamagedTrax

its off camden street

http://www.pulserecording.com/

website is being re-done at the moment but if you give them a ring they'll always accomodate a tour of the facilities.

i'm in there tonight so ill get the number and PM it to you.

Helix

AARRRGH wrote: »

Walton's do software studio and home recording courses which are a fraction of the price.

they dont surround you 5 days a week with quality facilities and a group of classmates who share your passion for making music tho

PaulBrewer

Jimbo808 wrote: »

ok, I'm back! haha

I'm not going to get into the in's and out's and opinions of this. I'm going to go with pure facts.

- I studied in STC for two years (2006 - 2007 & 2007 - 2008)
- I went in with a degree in Computer Science and One year at Newpark
school of Jazz (PMTC)
- My goal was to dive head first into the recording industry.
- I had some self taught knowledge of Cubase and Reason, nothing major.

After two years:

- Received City and Guild Level 2 and 3 Diplomas
- Music Theory Grade 5
- Pro Tools 101
- Trained on SSL 4400+ G series and Neve 72 VR legend aswell as huge range of outboard (Distressors, 1176s, Manleys and on and on) This was all at Temple Lane recording studios.
- Assisted on multiple professional projects.
- Engineered and mixed a wide selection of acts myself in a professional and paid situation. Be it in Elektra in my first year to a full album engineering in my second Year.
- Trained on the D-show Profile (small footprint Digidesign Venue desk) and Soundcraft MH-3 monitor board.
- Industry standard training and experience on multiple software platforms such as:
- Logic 8
- Pro Tools 7.4
- Reason 4
- Cubase 4 (all of which were available to me at any time)
- Visited the AES in Holland as a field trip.

Aren't you the Clever Clogs ?

Jimbo808

Just doing my job m'am...

PaulBrewer

Prick ....;)

old gregg

out of interest, how would the courses/facilities on offer at the Bray Institute of further education compare with Temple bar, Pulse or generally?

I'm not personally in the market for a course nor do I live anywhere near Dublin or Bray though I was talking with someone starting out recently who was considering Bray as an option presumably because it's cheaper.

thanks, Mick

PaulBrewer

StudioRat is a Tutor in Bray

old gregg

cheers Paul