Stupid Smart Women

Nuravictus

So by the title I have probably confused you slightly already. This thread is about smart woman who act stupid. Not in the dumb sense of the word but have no opinions on really important matters who aren’t willing to defend their opinions.

My social circle or rather people I know & meet consists of many doctors & engineers. They are woman and they are very smart because most of them hold an Honours Degree. The issue comes with the fact if I asked them some point of common knowledge on something goings on in the world, I get the Smile of despair, where they laugh the question off as if it wasn’t a question at all. I wouldn’t worry if it was one or two woman but it’s all of them.

However there is a good way to get woman into a debate on matters of abortion, you all go mad when that comes up but the other topics like religion, politics & general goings on in the world woman in general seem to think it’s better to be ignorance of these things. I know thats a very large generalisation but it is true to my experience.

The sad truth is I was browsing these forums many months ago & I seen a thread in these forums with smart woman making consistent & well structured points. These woman reminded me of the professionals I mingle with in real life but the question is why am I not seen this in the real world?

Is it ignorance bliss or are there reasons woman in public & around men don’t want to sound overly informed. I’ve had get debates with guys when I was half drunk. I’ve tried many a time to have a nice conversation on a topic with women but it generally comes down to go drink & dance.

So what’s going on ladies?


Edit: Removed the history part since you are all going mad :P

Peared

Yes, yes I was very confused by the title.

But then, of course I would be.

copacetic

If you are going around asking women 'about some point of common knowledge on world history', then their 'smile of despair' is more likely about having got stuck talking to you rather than not knowing the answer.

Peared

Actually, I just don't know where to begin with this cos I don't have time to go through all the things I find MENTAL about it. I'll be back tomorrow, armed with my typing fingers.

Nuravictus

Maybe my op is badly worded because its hard to try get across what I am trying to say.

I'm just trying to figure out why woman don't engage in these chats even when its group of men having it. They tend to sit on the outside.

copacetic wrote: »

If you are going around asking women 'about some point of common knowledge on world history', then their 'smile of despair' is more likely about having got stuck talking to you rather than not knowing the answer.

Its not like I arrive & say "Who won world war 2" it would be a normal conversation that develops, when I say look of dispair what I mean is they don't have a clue about what I might be talking about even thou its in most of the papers & news channels.

Also you don't need to attack me,

brianthebard

Well your first problem is assuming a group of doctors and engineers have an interest in current affairs, just because they are educated. Most doctors and engineers don't study sociology or politics tbh (at least not doctors of medicine).

monkeyfudge

Saying 'woman' instead of 'women' doesn't help either...

Not terribly sure what point your trying to make.

I do come across smart women who dumb themselves down a lot though. It's usually so they can fit into a certain social grouping where they're surrounded by dumb people who only discuss soaps and reality TV shows.

Nuravictus

brianthebard wrote: »

Well your first problem is assuming a group of doctors and engineers have an interest in current affairs, just because they are educated. Most doctors and engineers don't study sociology or politics tbh (at least not doctors of medicine).

True thou you would except them to be informed but maybe I am wrong in that point.

Galvasean

Nuravictus wrote: »

True thou you would except them to be informed

Why? They didn't major in history or politics.

stovelid

Maybe you're causing the Smile Of Despair. I'm certainly sporting one at this minute.

Wibbs

Actually I must admit I have seen this in action too. Women I consider good mates of mine who avoid general topics beyond their obvious remit, but which I know they are well versed in, being led in a conversation by men who have no clue about the topics discussed.

monkeyfudge

I have found people who will out right refuse to engage in certain topics of conversation.

I remember trying to discuss the merits of 'On the Origin of Species' out at a meal one time and having a girl absolutely refuse to listen to me as it might ruin her belief in angels for her. This is a normally intelligent young woman.

stovelid

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually I must admit I have seen this in action too. Women I consider good mates of mine who avoid general topics beyond their obvious remit, but which I know they are well versed in, being led in a conversation by men who have no clue about the topics discussed.

Maybe they are steering away from potentially contentious topics just being polite? I must say I'm usually non-committal about launching into political or similar topics with people I don't know very well.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Nuravictus

Galvasean wrote: »

Why? They didn't major in history or politics.

I really should of said things going on in the world in general. Thats what I meant. I don't have a major in history or politics, I read a few websites for news in the morning & thats about it.

stovelid wrote: »

Maybe you're causing the Smile Of Despair. I'm certainly sporting one at this minute.

If your not willing to add anything of value to the thread why post, The Smile of Dispair comes from a girl I turned down because even thou she was a Statistican for a major irish bank she acted really dumb & all she cared about was her shoes & how she looked.

shellyboo

Nuravictus wrote: »

woman in general seem to think it’s better to be ignorance of these things. I know thats a very large generalisation but it is true to my experience.


Is it ignorance bliss or are there reasons woman in public & around men don’t want to sound overly informed.

Why do you assume it's an act and not genuine ignorance? Because to assume they're actually ill-informed about the topic is a far less insulting remark.

I read three newspapers a day in my job, and I couldn't and wouldn't have a conversation with anyone about the finer points of history or a bit of general knowledge - not because I'm ill informed or because I'm attempting to downplay my intelligence in front of men, but simply because it's boring. My brain doesn't retain information it finds dull. I'd rather talk about aborting, or drinking, or dancing, because they interest me.

Nuravictus wrote: »

Maybe my op is badly worded because its hard to try get across what I am trying to say.

I'm just trying to figure out why woman don't engage in these chats even when its group of men having it. They tend to sit on the outside.

Because they're not interested? It seems to me to be more of a reasonable assumption than 'they're putting on an act for men'.

Nuravictus wrote: »

Its not like I arrive & say "Who won world war 2" it would be a normal conversation that develops, when I say look of dispair what I mean is they don't have a clue about what I might be talking about even thou its in most of the papers & news channels.

Also you don't need to attack me,

PS: I'm just wondering why I meet so many very smart woman with so very few opinions of anything of substance. Maybe I move in the wrong circles that could be true, lots of smart woman on these boards I can admit that.

Smart does not equal interested in current affairs. Like I say, I read a lot of newspapers, I'm a journalist, I have to. But once I get out of the office I don't watch a tap of news because not only have I been doing it all day, but... snore. I have more interesting things to think about and talk to people about. I'm not running down current affairs as boring, I'm just personally more passionate about my friends and talking with them, about them, what's happening in their lives, other people's lives... things that are real to me, close to home, as opposed to the big wide world.

Perhaps these women do have opinions on things of substance - you just don't regard them as such, or perhaps you don't know a lot about them or aren't interested in them? For example, I could chat to you for hours about the finer points of syntax and Chomsky's theorem, but I couldn't tell you what the headline was in the Indo today, and I bloody read the thing.

brianthebard

Nuravictus wrote: »

True thou you would except them to be informed but maybe I am wrong in that point.

Well I wouldn't be able to get far in a conversation if an m.d. started talking to me about all the latest innovation in mycoplasr corn removal. Nor do I feel the need to get involved in those discussions.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

dfx-

Peared wrote: »

Actually, I just don't know where to begin with this cos I don't have time to go through all the things I find MENTAL about it. I'll be back tomorrow, armed with my typing fingers.

To get there before you get the chance:

Minesajackdaniels: 1/2
G'em: 5/2
Karoma: 3/1
Jules: 5/1
Zaph: 7/1

Acacia

Not all women have no interest in current affair or politics. I know I'll discuss such things on forums and in 'real life'. I suppose some women might find it comfortable, for want of a better word, to 'act dumb' around men. But most women I know have no problem discussing history/politics. In any case, some topics aren't interesting to some people. It's not really matter of gender, more one of personal taste/ interest.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Nuravictus

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well i typed this in Word because by the time I was finished I knew the forums would of refreshed & I would have to relogin, So I copyed & pasted it over.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

True

@shellyboo

This is kinda a side question. Why do you not have a interest in current affairs. It strikes me as madness not to be informed & know whats going on in the world because what happens in the world affects us. If we are informed we can prepare or be ready for most issues when they happen.

And before you think i am some nerd I love having fun too, I love dancing and sports but I feel it’s my responsibly to be informed.

stovelid

Nuravictus wrote: »

If your not willing to add anything of value to the thread why post, The Smile of Dispair comes from a girl I turned down because even thou she was a Statistican for a major irish bank she acted really dumb & all she cared about was her shoes & how she looked.

What constitutes value to you in this instance is concurrence with your views.

Similarly, all I see in your OP is judgemental assumptions about what constitutes acceptable, intelligent female conversation.

Galvasean

OP, are you sure it wasn't the "Uh oh here comes a rant" face? I know a lot of people who try to avoid 'intellectual' or 'serious' debates with people they consider opinionated.

stressed out

I see where the OP is coming from. I believe politics is usually a man's subject in the same way something like football is, BUT we all know many women are interested in football, etc. In the same way women discuss clothes & shopping and men roll their eyes. So GENERALLY men like politics and women like clothes, to put it simply. *ducks*

But having said all that I am interested in politics but it's usually men I discuss it with. I also like shopping.
I hate the whole dumbing down of society though, it makes me :mad:! Like a lot of women, I watch SATC and enjoy it but hated the episode when the 4 of them were discussing 'politics', ie debating who was the best looking president :rolleyes:

tech77

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually I must admit I have seen this in action too. Women I consider good mates of mine who avoid general topics beyond their obvious remit, but which I know they are well versed in, being led in a conversation by men who have no clue about the topics discussed.

Interesting point.
The OP may be mistaking ignorance of current affairs with lack of interest/conviction/outspokenness about same.

This reminds me a bit of myself tbh-
well-educated and (if i say so myself :P ) insightful- but invariably taking a backseat (for the reasons listed above) while other ar$eholes spout off about the economy and whatnot.

Nuravictus

Galvasean wrote: »

OP, are you sure it wasn't the "Uh oh here comes a rant" face? I know a lot of people who try to avoid 'intellectual' or 'serious' debates with people they consider opinionated.

I don't try do the whole I know more than you & I always listen to other peoples points, I dont belittle peoples points of view when I chat with them like most "opinionated" people do.

dudara

Nuravictus wrote: »

They are woman and they are very smart because most of them hold an Honours Degree.

See, this is the major flaw in your logic. Just the fact that someone holds an honours degree does not mean they are "very smart". This is true for both male and female alike. Do not make the fatal mistake of equating learning with intelligence.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

stovelid

Nuravictus wrote: »

I don't try do the whole I know more than you & I always listen to other peoples points, I dont belittle peoples points of view when I chat with them like most "opinionated" people do.

Maybe it's just a reluctance to discuss such topics in an informal setting?

I'm quite interested in so-called intelligent topics such as politics and current affairs, but I often just don't want to discuss them at any level of intensity in a social setting, or especially if I don't know the person well.

copacetic

Nuravictus wrote: »

Its not like I arrive & say "Who won world war 2" it would be a normal conversation that develops, when I say look of dispair what I mean is they don't have a clue about what I might be talking about even thou its in most of the papers & news channels.

Also you don't need to attack me,

jeez, How does a normal conversation develop into you quizzing people on world history when they obviously aren't interested?

I can picture it now.

Girl come in to pub all wrapped up. 'Feckin Baltic out there it is'

Nuravictus : 'Certainly is, you are wrapped up well though, unlike the Germans at stalingrad in '43, boy did they underestimate the cold. Do you think it was a turning point in the war?'

Girl :< look of despair>

cuckoo

I think the OP does have a point....not about the 'look of despair' though.

*ducks*

No, really. It saddens me, and angers me, when i sometimes find myself doing it. Somehow i have less of a belief in my opinions and worldview than the majority of men that i know. I'll still argue my case, ask questions and hold forth, but i'm not as sure of my views as men of my acquaintance.

Maybe i'm just being drowned out by their louder, deeper voices. Or, maybe they're more comfortable with turning it into a battlefield and fighting their corner.

/pulls on Hat of Generalisation

When current affairs are being discussed my experience has been that men are more likely to use the phrase "no, you're wrong", and women are more likely to attack the opinion, eg, "no, that's the wrong way of looking at it".

shellyboo

Nuravictus wrote: »

@shellyboo

This is kinda a side question. Why do you not have a interest in current affairs. It strikes me as madness not to be informed & know whats going on in the world because what happens in the world affects us. If we are informed we can prepare or be ready for most issues when they happen.

:rolleyes:

Did you read my post? Clearly I have an interest in current affairs, I do it for a living. I love my job.

I also said I read three newspapers a day, I listen to Morning Ireland, I'm on RTE.ie all day... so I am in fact informed, and I am well aware that that what happens in the world affects us. However, it's not something I want to have a conversation about socially, because I find it dull to say the least. I am far, far more interested in talking about things that are closer to home. If I'm at a press conference or a business thing, yeah, I'll talk about current affairs. But if I'm out socially it's literally the last thing I want to talk about.

Nuravictus

shellyboo wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Did you read my post? Clearly I have an interest in current affairs, I do it for a living. I love my job.

I also said I read three newspapers a day, I listen to Morning Ireland, I'm on RTE.ie all day... so I am in fact informed, and I am well aware that that what happens in the world affects us. However, it's not something I want to have a conversation about socially, because I find it dull to say the least. I am far, far more interested in talking about things that are closer to home. If I'm at a press conference or a business thing, yeah, I'll talk about current affairs. But if I'm out socially it's literally the last thing I want to talk about.

Yea I looked at your post but I was just wondering, I know your informed but its not cause you want to be its cause your job demands it. That was my point.

copacetic wrote: »

jeez, How does a normal conversation develop into you quizzing people on world history when they obviously aren't interested?



I can picture it now.



Girl come in to pub all wrapped up. 'Feckin Baltic out there it is'



Nuravictus : 'Certainly is, you are wrapped up well though, unlike the Germans at stalingrad in '43, boy did they underestimate the cold. Do you think it was a turning point in the war?'



Girl :< look of despair>

You sir are trolling me hard :P

tech77

copacetic wrote: »

jeez, How does a normal conversation develop into you quizzing people on world history when they obviously aren't interested?

I can picture it now.

Girl come in to pub all wrapped up. 'Feckin Baltic out there it is'

Nuravictus : 'Certainly is, you are wrapped up well though, unlike the Germans at stalingrad in '43, boy did they underestimate the cold. Do you think it was a turning point in the war?'

Girl :< look of despair>

LMAO.
Funny, although a bit unfair to the OP's argument about how these topics can arise.

Galvasean

Nuravictus wrote: »

I don't try do the whole I know more than you & I always listen to other peoples points, I dont belittle peoples points of view when I chat with them like most "opinionated" people do.

That's cool.
Oh just for the record I wasn't putting words in 'commas' to be sarcastic/belittling, just 'highlighting' them.

shellyboo

Nuravictus wrote: »

Yea I looked at your post but I was just wondering, I know your informed but its not cause you want to be its cause your job demands it. That was my point.

Yes, my job demands it, but I chose my job, my career field. Besides, you have to have a certain level of interest in current affairs to be a journalist, especially if like me you don't have a degree in it. The nation's media is not filling its offices with people who aren't interested, in fact there's fierce competition for writing jobs. You're not going to get anywhere if you're not informed, and if you're not interested you'll never be informed.

The newspapers I read every day are not the ones I would choose if I was picking a paper, and my point was that it's only because I do read them that I avoid news elsewhere. I'm looking at it all day long. If I'm on holidays, I'll buy a paper, I'll watch the news. But I still don't want to debate the finer points of the Lisbon Treaty when I'm out socially.

Nuravictus

shellyboo wrote: »

Yes, my job demands it, but I chose my job, my career field. Besides, you have to have a certain level of interest in current affairs to be a journalist, especially if like me you don't have a degree in it. The nation's media is not filling its offices with people who aren't interested, in fact there's fierce competition for writing jobs. You're not going to get anywhere if you're not informed, and if you're not interested you'll never be informed.

The newspapers I read every day are not the ones I would choose if I was picking a paper, and my point was that it's only because I do read them that I avoid news elsewhere. I'm looking at it all day long. If I'm on holidays, I'll buy a paper, I'll watch the news. But I still don't want to debate the finer points of the Lisbon Treaty when I'm out socially.

Yea I see your point if it was my job I wouldnt be mad on talking about it like you are. And If I could be dancing & having fun neither would I

Red Hand

Sometimes, people don't want to talk about serious current affairs. You spend a morning working away hard, you come to lunch and your table and workmates are imitating Questions and Answers, right down to the frigid Arctic anticyclonic lack of humour, deep frowns on all faces...importing George Lee lookalike in from IT who is making deep depressing forecasts "on the state of the public finances".

LightningBolt

I think I know what the OP is trying to get at but has made a complete hash of putting his point across. The kind of talk you're looking for is when you're in the pub on a midweek night with three to four of your mates. The girls I know would have no interest in talking about current affairs. It doesn't mean that their stupid smart, just merely that they've probably worked 40hrs or so and can't be bothered to discuss the rights and wrongs of Israel bombing Gaza over the past week or so. They'd rather talk about themselves, bf's/husbands, travel plans or any other of a million things that interests them and involves them or their friends directly.

On that point I've noticed that girls will always have converse about themselves or others they know personally and will have little issue with talking about personal issues, whereas as us men won't discuss emotional problems with our friends we're more than happy to talk and argue in depth about anything else. I think I've just done what the OP done and made a hash of what I wanted to say:D

b3t4

It's very, very, very seldom (maybe once a year at Christmas) that news reports have anything remotely positive about the world in them. Why on earth would I be bothered with that in a social situation? I'd like my personal life to be filled with more than doom and gloom thank you very much.

Also, I've found from my interactions in such conversations, that the men partaking in such conversations are particularly dismissive of a female interacting in the conversation. It has appeared to me that my opinion has only ever been counted for if one of the males in the group validates it. I now know to stay out of such conversations as they are tedious, boring and full of big egos.

A.

Snowie

Nuravictus wrote: »

Is it ignorance bliss or are there reasons woman in public & around men don’t want to sound overly informed. I’ve had get debates with guys when I was half drunk. I’ve tried many a time to have a nice conversation on a topic with women but it generally comes down to go drink & dance.

So what’s going on ladies?

yeah man its called "Having a good time"
If you want to have a debate join a club.....
Pubs are for good times getting stupid and having a laugh not for arguing over why mary harney has 5 bloody chins and awfull taste in clotheing....

fits

b3t4 wrote: »

Also, I've found from my interactions in such conversations, that the men partaking in such conversations are particularly dismissive of a female interacting in the conversation. It has appeared to me that my opinion has only ever been counted for if one of the males in the group validates it. I now know to stay out of such conversations as they are tedious, boring and full of big egos.

:eek:

Actually OP, this is something I've been thinking about recently too. And I really cant figure out why this is the case sometimes. I wonder is it because a lot of women are afraid of expressing an opinion that may be shot down? I dont know really. I'm probably guilty of that to an extent myself. I'll only enter a debate/argument if I'm reasonably well versed in the ins and outs of it, and can back up my point of view. (caution vs risk takers?)

I have to say it does annoy me sometimes to see lots of men debating a topic and some of the women sitting around silent. I dont think its lack of awareness or interest in the issues that is the cause either.

jellie

maybe theyre not interested in the topics, maybe theyre not interested in discussing them, or maybe just not with you?

Im reasonably intelligent, or I should be by your standards anyway as I have an hons degree and masters, but I dont spend my time discussing politics or current affairs or history..
i listen to the news & have a reasonable idea of whats going on in the world. But to be honest I generally dont discuss it unless I find it particularly interesting or shocking - usually its too fecking depressing to discuss the loss of 1900 jobs in dell or the war in israel.

& as mentioned by someone else, theres certain people i just wouldnt be bothered trying to talk about things with anyway, im not interested in having other peoples opinions forced on me, debates dont interest me, and i generally dont feel the need to justify what i feel/think about thinks.

to be brutally honest, for the most case i just wouldnt be interested.

allabouteve

Nuravictus wrote: »

They are woman and they are very smart because most of them hold an Honours Degree.

Edit: Removed the history part since you are all going mad :P

Sorry, holding a degree displays an ability to achieve academically. It is not an indication of either informed opinion or practical intelligence.

True those who achieve degree status are often more intelligent than those who don't (in general), but it doesn't indicate the ability to verbalise opinions.

nomorebadtown

Nuravictus wrote:

I was browsing these forums many months ago & I seen a...

*head explodes*
So many posters on boards do this!! Right in the middle of a relatively intelligent post, you get "I seen...", "I done...." Drives me up the wall! Learn how to speak correctly you barbarians:mad:

On topic/

I think this is what the OP is getting at..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjxY9rZwNGU

partyguinness

Personally some of the smartest people I know barely did their Leaving Certificate and some did not. Some of the dimmest people I know have several qualifications.

For the record I have a primary, post graduate and a masters in law and a professional qualification. This does not mean I am highly intelligent or more intelligent than someone with less qualifications.

It mostly means I was good at applying myself to exam situations and was committed.

Point being....Don't confuse or equate intelligence with education...I believe thats a mistake people make.

shellyboo

nomorebadtown wrote: »

*head explodes*
So many posters on boards do this!! Right in the middle of a relatively intelligent post, you get "I seen...", "I done...." Drives me up the wall! Learn how to speak correctly you barbarians:mad:

The only thing more boring than discussing current affairs socially is correcting people's spelling and grammar in day-to-day use. He's not submitting an essay, he's writing a post in a forum.

Anyhoo, back on topic... I thought some more about this and not only do I find it boring to chat current affairs, I don't like the type of conversation it results in. The result is usually one of a few things: you realise you don't know as much as you thought and feel stupid, you realise the other person doesn't have a clue what they're talking about and you end up thinking they're stupid, you realise that the person you're talking to has really objectionable views and you end up thinking badly of them, or it ends up in a big heated debate and everyone gets pissed off and it ruins the night.

nomorebadtown

Woops! Sorry for voicing my opinion, your majesty.

fits

shellyboo wrote: »

Anyhoo, back on topic... I thought some more about this and not only do I find it boring to chat current affairs, I don't like the type of conversation it results in. The result is usually one of a few things: you realise you don't know as much as you thought and feel stupid, you realise the other person doesn't have a clue what they're talking about and you end up thinking they're stupid, you realise that the person you're talking to has really objectionable views and you end up thinking badly of them, or it ends up in a big heated debate and everyone gets pissed off and it ruins the night.

Or you might discover some interesting alternative views, find some common ground with other people, or shock horror... learn something!

shellyboo

nomorebadtown wrote: »

Woops! Sorry for voicing my opinion, your majesty.

Meh, I happen to agree with you, but we grammar nazis have a bad enough name with out preying on innocent bystanders