Is Darts a Sport and Should it be at the Olympics?

ratinakeg

Is darts a sport?

Sid wants YOUR views on the great darts debate

Posted: 07th January 2009 14:23

I don't think any darts players would say winning a gold medal would be a bigger achievement than winning the World Championship. The Olympics should ask us to go, rather than us having to lobby them.

Sid Waddell
Quotes of the week



The great philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein said that it's as hard to define sport as it is to define language.
Why do you speak in a different way to your bank manager than you do to your bookmaker? Are the noises that whales and dolphins make the same as human language? Why does an Eskimo have more than 90 words for snow?
It's almost impossible to define what language is - and Wittgenstein said you have the same problem with sport. Is rifle shooting a sport? Is synchronised swimming a sport? Is sumo wrestling a sport?
And is darts a sport?
Giles Smith has kicked off the debate in The Times and I personally believe that darts fulfils all of the criteria needed to be classed as a sport.
As hard as it is to define, I've looked through all of the dictionaries and I've found that something needs to have three aspects to it to be classed as a sport.
First of all it needs to have competition. If you are playing bat and ball with your granny on Scarborough beach it does not become a sport until you put up a net and say 'first to 15'. Darts clearly has that competitive element.
Secondly, sport demands hand to eye co-ordination. Darts is surely the essence of that particular skill.
The third factor is that you get better by practice. It's clear that if you had Phil Taylor showing you how to throw darts properly, you'd be a better darts player in a month's time than you are now.
So for me, darts has always satisfied all of the parameters to be a sport - and having seen where Taylor has taken it to, nobody can tell me it's not a sport.
Olympic darts

People also ask me if darts should become an Olympic sport. Personally, I think the Olympics needs darts more than darts needs the Olympics.
If you look at baseball, then only one or two of the players from the New York Yankees or the Boston Red Sox will go to the Olympics. The big stars like Derek Jeter and David Ortiz would not go. For them it's all about the World Series.
It's similar with football. The very best footballers would regard the Olympics as a sideline, certainly in this country.
With £6million in world prize money available now, why would professional darters be as concerned about the Olympics as they are about winning the world title? Like baseball, darts is such an amazing, well-organised professional spectacle that the Olympics would be privileged to have us.
Somebody like Bob Anderson would have argued differently 10 years ago. As a former junior javelin champion, Bob would have loved to have been in the Olympics, but as a commentator I would not see commentating on darts at the Olympics as the same honour as commentating on the World Championship.
I don't think any darts players would say winning a gold medal would be a bigger achievement than winning the World Championship. The Olympics should ask us to go, rather than us having to lobby them.
Furthermore team darts has never had the appeal of individual darts. Great Britain A, B, C and D would be battling it out with Holland A, B and C for the medals anyway. It might be boring.

I know most people on here can't stand this guy, but I think it would make a good debate, I also heard the commentators on the Lakeside talking about this yesterday. In my view it should be at the olympics.

passinginterest

It certainly has as much claim to be in the Olympics as many of the other minority sports, the skill levels involved to compete at the highest level are huge. Maybe with an olympic throwing distance of 7 feet (like the News of the World used to be if I remember correctly).

The only problem might be the fact that the majority of the best players are from the British Isles, although the popularity and quality of players does seem to be improving globally.

Kingp35

It definitely is a sport, I have had countles arguments with people about this. Most people claim to me that sport is about physical fitness, it's not although darts certainly requires fitnes in a different way to a field sport. playing darts on a roasting hot stage for two hours is very tiring and demands fitness to a certain degree. It takes incredible amounts of skill and practice to become a darts player and the physical aspect involved in throwing the dart makes it a sport for me.

I think it would be good for darts to be in the olympics because maybe more people would get over their preconceptions that darts is not a sport and is only played by fat drunk lads. On the other hand I think it would be boring as hell, it would be between Great Britain and Holland every time unless John Part can win it. I also don't think that the players will want to win it as much as any of the other major TV tournaments because darts fans will not be hugley interested in the olympics same as Tennis fans or Soccer fans.

I think it should be there because it is a sport and deserves it's place, but I don't think it will be taken very seriously by darts fans.

Healio

What if they kept it to amateurs like boxing?

Kingp35

Healio wrote: »

What if they kept it to amateurs like boxing?

Now that is a very good idea. There will still be some excellent players because a lot of the PDC and BDO players are not professionals. Can't see the likes of Phil Taylor supporting this idea though!

Tristram

No and **** no.

Carrickman

Without a doubt!

whaaames

Without question darts is a sport, it actually annoys me when people suggest it's not, for 3 simple (in addition to a lot more) reasons...

1. it's played competitively in leagues, tournaments and televised events
2. it's played globally and is known well among children to adults
and
3. it takes skill, bags full of skill, to play, and practice, hours and hours of practice to obtain a level of skill to be able to compete at the top level...

it may not be a physical sport that requires gym hours and nutrition gurus and all that fandango but the level of concentration required rivals any sport in the world...

now, as for the olympics, its not as simple as yes or no but there are factors that suggest it should be included, along with sports that have been lobbying for years (9 ball pool, bowling, chess etc.) there are factors to consider i.e. amateur status but certainly there is an arguement there, although even if lord Sidney was to argue our corner london 2012 is surely too close to see it implemented, maybe 2020 is the realistic suggestion...

Trippie

whaaames wrote: »

Without question darts is a sport, it actually annoys me when people suggest it's not, for 3 simple (in addition to a lot more) reasons...

1. it's played competitively in leagues, tournaments and televised events
2. it's played globally and is known well among children to adults
and
3. it takes skill, bags full of skill, to play, and practice, hours and hours of practice to obtain a level of skill to be able to compete at the top level...

it may not be a physical sport that requires gym hours and nutrition gurus and all that fandango but the level of concentration required rivals any sport in the world...

By this reasoning poker is a sport then

dionsiseire

Trippie wrote: »

By this reasoning poker is a sport then

No he said it requires hours and hours of practice, poker can be picked up in 15 minutes by a person with half a brain.

Also show me a poker league? Also children playing poker? a gambling game, are you serious, ive never heard of a youths cup of poker

Poker requires almost no concentration where as darts is a game of pure concentration, a crowd couldnt put you off in poker, where as watching the 9 darters by barney on youtube, just go and watch the last 3 darts, how the crowd didnt put him off is beyond me. Just thoroughly professional and clinical

In Darts its a piece of metal and flight, in shooting they have sight enhanced rifles, its practically a non event. honestly how people dont see the skill and temperment required to be a professional darts player is beyond me

shiibata

Suppose on way of looking at it is comparing it with javelin, javelin is one big long dart, just throw it as far as you can, massive area to hit as well, where as the darter has a wee tiny red patch to get 3 micro javelins into, when you think about it, which one would deserve an olymic place.

premierstone

dionsiseire wrote: »

No he said it requires hours and hours of practice, poker can be picked up in 15 minutes by a person with half a brain.

Also show me a poker league? Also children playing poker? a gambling game, are you serious, ive never heard of a youths cup of poker

Poker requires almost no concentration where as darts is a game of pure concentration, a crowd couldnt put you off in poker, where as watching the 9 darters by barney on youtube, just go and watch the last 3 darts, how the crowd didnt put him off is beyond me. Just thoroughly professional and clinical

In Darts its a piece of metal and flight, in shooting they have sight enhanced rifles, its practically a non event. honestly how people dont see the skill and temperment required to be a professional darts player is beyond me

Your lack of understanding of the game of poker is feckin hilarious :rolleyes:

dionsiseire

premierstone wrote: »

Your lack of understanding of the game of poker is feckin hilarious :rolleyes:

Well i play poker, i know the rules, ive played in competitions, ive won quite a few

i would say my knowledge of poker is quite decent and to try an classify poker as a sport would show your lack of knowledge of the game

zuutroy

imo sport is competition where hand/eye co-ordination and or physical excertion (sp) is required which is why I think Snooker and Darts should be counted and the likes of Poker and Chess shouldn't

5starpool

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055423390

shoutman

dionsiseire wrote: »

Well i play poker, i know the rules, ive played in competitions, ive won quite a few

i would say my knowledge of poker is quite decent and to try an classify poker as a sport would show your lack of knowledge of the game

HU 4 rollz?

Rented Mule

5starpool wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055423390

Poker is much more of a mental 'game' and there aren't actually any physical requirements in order to play. You don't even need arms/legs in order to take part.

I do have to ask the question(s)

Is Archery a sport ?

Is shooting a sport ?

They both have similarities to darts.

Is Ballroom Dancing a sport?

Is Rythmic Gymnatics a sport ?

Are these events that are 'judged' actually sports ?

Double Top

Think you hit the nail on the head Rented, some of the so called sports in the olympics are just stupid,one word Dressage (dancing horses)

dionsiseire

shoutman wrote: »

HU 4 rollz?

What???

Also as a moderator surely you are a aware Txt speak is frowned upon

Kingp35

shoutman wrote: »

HU 4 rollz?

Less of this! You're just looking for a reaction.

dionsiseire

dionsiseire wrote: »

What???

Also as a moderator surely you are a aware Txt speak is frowned upon

HU4Rollz is a fairly common expression in poker.

Also you say your knowledge of the game is pretty good. To be fair I don't know many sports which require this level of knowledge at the most basic level to be reasonably good.


EDIT: Oh, and the way in which the IOC seems to choose it's applicable sports is ridiculous. Boxing has been in the Olympics for decades but they discriminate against women's boxing without apology.

ratinakeg

If poker is a sport then we could call Snakes n Ladders and Guess Who sports in their own right!

shoutman

I was merely trying to make a point by my comment. Dionsiseire tries to portray him/herself as quite knowledgable about poker. My comment might slip over the head of some of the older generation of poker players, but the vast majority of those who play semi regularly I would assume would know this vernacular.

The fact of the matter is that almost certainly dionsiseire does not know near as much as he/she thinks he/she does.

The addage that is generally used in poker is that the more you learn the more you realise that you don't know that much at all.

To get back on topic I think that darts should be classified as a sport however I'm not sure about it merits being an olympic sport. First off I don't know why the darts community would want it as an olympic sport.
Obviously it is a highly skillfull game and one at which I am absolutely useless dispite countless hours being spent practicing at the dart board.

This might come across as a bit snobby but I think Darts is best left to the Ally pally and such places, its more at home with people drinking copious amounts of alcohol and chanting nonsense to their hearts content. It's good fun and as such fun should should have no place in the olympics.

shoutman

ratinakeg wrote: »

If poker is a sport then we could call Snakes n Ladders and Guess Who sports in their own right!

I don't think poker is a sport, a game of skill but not a sport. No hand eye co-ordination and no physical attributes needed. Yes it helps to be fit in order to keep up levels of concentration but all it needs is a brain to play so I don't think its a sport.

Cue someone coming up with an example of a recognised sport that only requires brainpower, before someone says the maths olympics or something as silly, you are wrong.

you*ess*bee

Are you serious?! In NO way is darts a sport. This issue has come up before and it annoys me to no end.

A sport is something that requires fitness (which 99.9% of darts players do not have), training, discipline and skill.

Ive been into the pub before picked up a dart and thrown it at the bullseye. And im not an international player or have ever played a full game before. All darts is, is good hand eye co-ordination.

I can just hear the romans rolling in their graves at the thought of a 400pound lardo participating in the olympics!

shoutman

you*ess*bee wrote: »

Are you serious?! In NO way is darts a sport. This issue has come up before and it annoys me to no end.

A sport is something that requires fitness (which 99.9% of darts players do not have), training, discipline and skill.

Ive been into the pub before picked up a dart and thrown it at the bullseye. And im not an international player or have ever played a full game before. All darts is, is good hand eye co-ordination.

I can just hear the romans rolling in their graves at the thought of a 400pound lardo participating in the olympics!

If its so easy for you, you should turn pro, in all my time playing I've yet to hit above a 140. Darts isn't easy.

As for sport requiring fitness thats bull. What about shooting, archery, curling.
Even some golfers aren't in good shape.
Also professional dart players spend hours a day practicing.

dionsiseire

you*ess*bee wrote: »

Are you serious?! In NO way is darts a sport. This issue has come up before and it annoys me to no end.

A sport is something that requires fitness (which 99.9% of darts players do not have), training, discipline and skill.

Ive been into the pub before picked up a dart and thrown it at the bullseye. And im not an international player or have ever played a full game before. All darts is, is good hand eye co-ordination.

I can just hear the romans rolling in their graves at the thought of a 400pound lardo participating in the olympics!

Are you serious, look at all the olympic games that already exist that require absolutely ZERO fitness, and darts players do the other 3 of your requirements, they train, they have great discipline, and while you may throw 1 dart at the board and hit a bullseye you will NEVER beat phil taylor in a game of 501 without hours upon hours upon hours upon weeks upon years of practice.

Olympic Games not requiring Fitness

Shooting
Golf
Diving
Cricket
Croquet
Synchronized swimming
Archery

Are you genuinely serious

dionsiseire

shoutman wrote: »

I was merely trying to make a point by my comment. Dionsiseire tries to portray him/herself as quite knowledgable about poker. My comment might slip over the head of some of the older generation of poker players, but the vast majority of those who play semi regularly I would assume would know this vernacular.

The fact of the matter is that almost certainly dionsiseire does not know near as much as he/she thinks he/she does.

The addage that is generally used in poker is that the more you learn the more you realise that you don't know that much at all.

To get back on topic I think that darts should be classified as a sport however I'm not sure about it merits being an olympic sport. First off I don't know why the darts community would want it as an olympic sport.
Obviously it is a highly skillfull game and one at which I am absolutely useless dispite countless hours being spent practicing at the dart board.

This might come across as a bit snobby but I think Darts is best left to the Ally pally and such places, its more at home with people drinking copious amounts of alcohol and chanting nonsense to their hearts content. It's good fun and as such fun should should have no place in the olympics.

Point made of lack of knowledge maybe but not that poker can be played and won without all the maths crap involved

Ive won 8 poker tournaments with entry of over 150 people, i dont use math though i do use gut intinct and my guess as to the chance of catching the card i need. you dont need a calculator to play good poker, its just some people like to think it makes the difference between them and an amateur, but an amatuer will as easily catch a math genius out with a quality bluff or a great call

you*ess*bee

dionsiseire wrote: »

and while you may throw 1 dart at the board and hit a bullseye you will NEVER beat phil taylor in a game of 501 without hours upon hours upon hours upon weeks upon years of practice.

Im guessing since you know the names of darts players, youre on the 'I darts' side. No way is darts a sport. Its merely hand eye co-ordination at best.

Far as I know golf is not an olympic sport. Unless its something new to be added since last I watched the olympics.

And merely for comparison, if diving is not a sport why don't darts players have the toned bodies of divers?

shoutman

dionsiseire wrote: »

Ive won 8 poker tournaments with entry of over 150 people, i dont use math though i do use gut intinct and my guess as to the chance of catching the card i need. you dont need a calculator to play good poker, its just some people like to think it makes the difference between them and an amateur, but an amatuer will as easily catch a math genius out with a quality bluff or a great call

I dont know how to say it any other way, you are just plain wrong. Yes on any given day any player might win a particular poker tournement, indeed it is often argues that without a little bit of luck it is almost impossible to win a tournement with a sizeable field. No one can argue that, but what one can argue is that you can have a huge advantage over the rest of the people in the field due to your level of knowledge/thought process.
Football for example, say Brazil play Ireland 1million times. Ireland might beat them 5% of the time (just an example), this is because Brazil have better players and thus are more likely to win. But every now and again Ireland will win, they might get lucky or whatever but they will win.

Its the same in poker, the cream will always rise to the top. That is why people say that Phil Ivey, Durrr and Phil Galfond are among the best poker players in the world. Is it that they win everytime they play? No, but it is because when they do play they play it at such a high level that everyone knows over any length of time they will win a lot more then others. It has absolutely nothing to do with luck what so ever. Pure and simple they are better at the game then others. And hence why they are all millionaires.

shoutman

Why do you need a toned body to be a sportsman? Golf is most certainly a sport, it is one of the most popular sports in the world and golf has its fair share of fatties.

Darts should not be an olympic sport as I have already said, however it most definately is a sport.
Would you call table tennis a sport? It too requires hand eye co-ordination combined with a small bit of movement. But it is a lot easier to hit a table tennis ball on to the other side of the table then it is to hit a nine darter.