Wild Conspiracy? Or Plausible Explanation...?

ShriekingSheet

To start with, I am never one for believing far out theories. But, what do you make of this...

Woods' knee surgery subsequent and lay-off began roughly around the time of drug-testing in golf. To my knowledge, and correct me if I'm wrong, no major players have been done for any improprieties since.

Is it at all possible that Woods' was found to be taking something, or expected to be caught with something in his system. He could have taken a break to get it out or, been quietly suspended.

It's plausible that the PGA would never, ever allow the guy who caused such a boom in the game to be tainted. Yet, they still may have used the knee thing to cover the sanction.

Look at cycling, if anyone followed the NewsTalk coverage (that pretty much became an inquest) of the Lance Armstrong story - it was left to listeners to make up their own minds but it seemed to be clearly a case that the world cycling body were letting him away with failing tests because of what he meant to the sport.

Couple that with what Gary Player said many months back - he knew a number of top players definitely were taking drugs. From someone who knows the tour intimately and has nothing to gain or lose, that's pretty damning.

I'm offering no back-up for this. It's not my theory, it's apparently there are rumours among the tour players. I think it's most likely completely not true but was shocked by how plausible it is...

ThunderCat

Thats a good one alrite. Hadnt heard it before. Doubt Woods is the type to be honest. Besides if he was taking banned substances im sure a number of fellow pros would be falling over themselves to tell the media as it will mean the tour would be a lot more competitive and theyd have a better chance of winning things. Also seeing as Woods actually had surgery on his knee to me seems plausable that there actually was something wrong with it. Its a bit of an extreme step to have surgery on a healthy knee. Also if he was only faking the pain, then he deserves an oscar for the acting he did in the US Open.

That said, you just never know.

Good topic OP.

PS - back to what Gary Player said. I wonder who actually is taking drugs??

thecornerboy

The PGA does have a culture of secrecy surrounding suspensions and anything of that nature, anything that could damage the image of the game I suppose. Look at the recent John Daly thing for example. Gary Player says he knows for a fact certain professional golfers use drugs but he wasn't referring to Woods.

There is an alleged precedent in American sport. Michael Jordan is alleged to have "retired" instead of facing a ban related to serious gambling issues. He returned 1 year later.

As it stands there is absolutely no evidence against Woods. Tiger has said there should be stiff penalties for illegal drug taking in the Tour.

Edit: Tiger has also has said he tests himself privately for drugs and was a strong supporter of drug testing on Tour - maybe covering his own behind if people wrongly associated physique and a lack of public comment on new drug testing with something but those are the facts

Edit 2: Doing a quick google I did find this story:

Tiger Drug Testing Himself

The New York Daily News ran an in-depth piece on the PGA Tour’s decision to randomly drug test its players that gave a revealing look at the Tour’s arrogance and how some in the industry view Tiger Woods’ reaction to the policy with suspicion.

Tiger Woods is proclaiming his purity saying he tested himself twice in the last six months to make sure the supplements he takes were not contaminated with illegal additives. BALCO founder Victor Conte, which the United States Anti-Doping Agency says developed the banned steroid tetrahydrogestrinone (THG), is skeptical of Woods’ motivation.

“Athletes screening their urine for steroids are more than likely doing so to monitor their use of steroids,” he said.

Yesalis also questions the Woods declaration. “It only proves that the drugs they screened weren't in his system at the time,” he said. “Did they test for growth hormone? I'll bet not.”

Woods did not say what he was tested for.





Edit 3: Woods played his last tournament before drug testing was introduced but is still a candidate for testing. So if Woods knee injury recovery time is consistently being underestimated by him and others it would add weight to the theory but as I've said, there is no real evidence. If you look hard enough you can read something into nothing.

1916

Wild Conspiracy, but I wouldn't know so its only a guess

1916

gnolan

Heard this about 6 months ago from a friend of mine, no idea where he got it from though. He said Woods was basically given the choice of a long-term public suspension or to pull out from the tour.

He did the latter, but i don't personally believe the rumour. That said, however, if Woods was found to have taken drugs I don't see it being revealed to the public; the biggest golfer of our generation, the biggest inspiration to young black golfers, the biggest source of income to the PGA?? being a 'cheater'. Probably a time when to sweep it under the rug.

conno16

a similiar rumour emerged around the time mick jordan first retired from the chicago bulls - in his case the offence was gambling tho as far as i recall

both nonsensical

neckedit

Could you imagine the the press if it was true, I doubt it for many reasons, Even if out injured, a member of the tour is still sanctioned for testing, apparently Tiger has tested himself twice since

Tiger Woods remains eligible for testing even though he had season-ending surgery on his left knee last week. Woods said he has tested himself twice, the second time because he changed the brand of the amino acid in his nutritional program. He said both tests came back clean.
Source; Associated Press July 2, 2008

On a lighter note, Steve Stricker says

"All we have to test is one guy, Because we can't beat him, anyway."
Source; Associated Press July 2, 2008:p

HuntingDrog

hold on a sec.......

what advantages do performance enhancing drugs give Tiger? it can give him some extra length-sure.B ut he's not the longest on Tour. He's never been the best striker, driver, etc. He is one of the fittest though but he is supposed to have a "special regime" which no one knows much about.
I doubt it if a performance enhancing drug has given Tiger an unfair advantage to win everything. We've all watched him do unbelievable things since he came on Tour. He's always been the best golfer to get the ball in the hole in the least amount of shots. He plays the best golf out of all the players coming down the stretch. His will to win is just unreal. Read a stat on him once about his "Bounce-Backability" - something like a study was done among all the players on the PGATour measuring their score on the next hole following a bogey over a period of time. Tiger was head and shoulders above everyone else with nearly a birdie every time following a bogey.


I for one don't think he's won all he has due to drugs. Golf is mainly a game of precision, finesse, mental endurance.

thecornerboy

HuntingDrog wrote: »

hold on a sec.......

what advantages do performance enhancing drugs give Tiger? it can give him some extra length-sure.B ut he's not the longest on Tour. He's never been the best striker, driver, etc. He is one of the fittest though but he is supposed to have a "special regime" which no one knows much about.
I doubt it if a performance enhancing drug has given Tiger an unfair advantage to win everything. We've all watched him do unbelievable things since he came on Tour. He's always been the best golfer to get the ball in the hole in the least amount of shots. He plays the best golf out of all the players coming down the stretch. His will to win is just unreal. Read a stat on him once about his "Bounce-Backability" - something like a study was done among all the players on the PGATour measuring their score on the next hole following a bogey over a period of time. Tiger was head and shoulders above everyone else with nearly a birdie every time following a bogey.


I for one don't think he's won all he has due to drugs. Golf is mainly a game of precision, finesse, mental endurance.

For a start nobody said any of these things. You're replying to points which were never made.

Tiger himself thinks drug testing is needed in the sport. Any professional athlete who uses drugs; steroids, hormones or beta blockers depending on the circumstances, can gain an advantage. Tiger is no different to anybody else in this respect.

HuntingDrog

fair point - went off on a rant there thecornerboy......apologies

i just can't see how Tiger has used drugs to get the little ball in the hole in the least amount of shots?

Like what are the advantages of performance enhancing drugs in golf?
here's the only one i can think of
1 - Improve endurance

thecornerboy

HuntingDrog wrote: »

fair point - went off on a rant there thecornerboy......apologies

i just can't see how Tiger has used drugs to get the little ball in the hole in the least amount of shots?

Like what are the advantages of performance enhancing drugs in golf?
here's the only one i can think of
1 - Improve endurance

Beta blockers for putting, EPO for endurance, steroids and growth hormones to build physique and muscle so you can drive the ball further. Tiger himself attributes some of his success to simply being fitter and stronger to his opponent.

conno16

i'd imagine we're not talking about performance enhancing drugs here folks..

Running Bing

Is it possible he was on drugs? Of course it is but without a shred of evidence or anything, aside from coincidental timing, to indicate it I think it is very unfair to even suggest it tbh.


Its just as possible that Vijay, Padraig or any other player is on drugs.

Running Bing

thecornerboy wrote: »

Beta blockers for putting, EPO for endurance, steroids and growth hormones to build physique and muscle so you can drive the ball further. Tiger himself attributes some of his success to simply being fitter and stronger to his opponent.

Tbf any half decent consistent training programme would develop all the endurance and muscle/physique necessary for golf. Somebody with Woods' resources certainly wouldnt need to take drugs for those reasons. He clearly works hard in the gym.

As for the putting I imagine any benefits would be far outweighed by the risks. He's been putting all his life...any benefits from Beta Blockers would surely be miniscule.

I imagine we're talking about recreational use here. Does Woods' seem the type?

The other thing to bare in mind is Woods has had clear talent and ability since the time he was a kid....its not like he suddenly became great over night (like a certain Monsieur Armstrong but thats another topic)

madds

Babybing wrote: »

The other thing to bare in mind is Woods has had clear talent and ability since the time he was a kid....its not like he suddenly became great over night

+1....an interesting thread but Tiger has been the best player in the world for over 10 years now. Remember his first Masters win where he won aged 21, 12 strokes ahead of second place? Was he on drugs then? Doubt it.

He also won his first competition aged 3. Wonder what he was using back then?

DIEGO WORST

Wild wild conspiracy.

Tiger has had problems with that knee for years. I heard he damaged it as a kid when he came off a skateboard or something. Added to that, he generates a lot of power in the downswing by snapping his left knee. It was one of the reasons why he changed his swing in 2002, saying that he wanted to prolong his career, and would be doing a great deal of harm to his body if he didn't change. Obviously, the knee suffered a lot more damage than he thought, and finally gave out in 2008.
That injury is legit.

I would say he would be the very last PGA Pro to take drugs. His fitness and skill is all down to hard work.

If there was such a drug for making that 15 footer on the 72nd hole of a major, then the theory might make sense ;->

thecornerboy

Babybing wrote: »

Tbf any half decent consistent training programme would develop all the endurance and muscle/physique necessary for golf. Somebody with Woods' resources certainly wouldnt need to take drugs for those reasons. He clearly works hard in the gym.

As for the putting I imagine any benefits would be far outweighed by the risks. He's been putting all his life...any benefits from Beta Blockers would surely be miniscule.

The other thing to bare in mind is Woods has had clear talent and ability since the time he was a kid....its not like he suddenly became great over night (like a certain Monsieur Armstrong but thats another topic)

Does anybody read exactly what is being said before replying anymore?

I was replying to a question in relation to the benefit of golfers in general and not Woods in particular.

I also said Woods himself attributes some success with simple fitness.

Also, steroids and drugs in general are absolutely useless in the absence of stringent training regimes. Woods isn't on drugs, but if he was, he would spend the same amount of time in the gym as he is now.

Also, drugs will you not make you a great golfer "overnight", it could however improve your driving, your overall fitness and your putting, not a huge amount but enough to make a difference.

As to golfers in general, with the money available on tour it's quite naive to think there aren't any golfers out there cheating in this way.

thecornerboy

DIEGO WORST wrote: »

If there was such a drug for making that 15 footer on the 72nd hole of a major, then the theory might make sense ;->

They're called beta blockers. They at least help.

Running Bing

thecornerboy wrote: »

Does anybody read exactly what is being said before replying anymore?

I was replying to a question in relation to the benefit of golfers in general and not Woods in particular.

And if you read my post you would find I never accused you of anything. I was merely using your framework to look at the benefits Tiger would get from drugs.

Also, steroids and drugs in general are absolutely useless in the absence of stringent training regimes. Woods isn't on drugs, but if he was, he would spend the same amount of time in the gym as he is now.

True which is why its pretty useless. We're not looking at somebody here looking to put on 200 lbs of muscle mass, run 100 metres in 10 seconds or win a yellow jersey on the Tour De France.

If a golfer has a stringent training regime they are already at the efficient level of endurance and strength for the sport, any benefits from drugs be it epo or steroids would surely be absolutely miniscule.

To summarise my point: In golf there is a level of endurance and a level of strength which is is unnecessary to go past. These levels can be reached without the aid of drugs.

Also, drugs will you not make you a great golfer "overnight", it could however improve your driving, your overall fitness and your putting, not a huge amount but enough to make a difference.

I dont know much about Beta Blockers and putting, it could well be they do give significant benefits but I cant imagine it would be anywhere near enough to justify the risk.

As for Driving and overall fitness I stand by my points that drugs are completely unnecessary for these purposes in golf.

As to golfers in general, with the money available on tour it's quite naive to think there aren't any golfers out there cheating in this way.

I think that depends on wheter you believe drugs give a significant, if any advantage. If you believe they do then yes it would be naive to think nobody takes them with so much at stake.

I certainly believe any benefits from drugs would be absolutely tiny...so small that nobody but the most desperate and deluded of golfers would take them to gain an edge.

Berti Vogts

That rumour is nothing but a load of nonsense. I suppose he was faking that knee injury during the US Open then?

soundsham

WHAT A CROCK OF....

kingshankly

Doubt there is much truth in it. Agree with what madds was saying tiger has been a prodigy since he was three and you have to admire the way he carrys himself. when someone is at the top there is always people trying to knock them off by whatever means possible.if it is true he deserves an oscar for his us open performance. I think sheet must have been having a quiet day at work today

thecornerboy

Babybing wrote: »

I dont know much about Beta Blockers and putting, it could well be they do give significant benefits but I cant imagine it would be anywhere near enough to justify the risk.

They only started testing for drugs in July, so there was zero risk of being caught before then.

I think that depends on wheter you believe drugs give a significant, if any advantage. If you believe they do then yes it would be naive to think nobody takes them with so much at stake.

It doesn't matter a damn what I believe it's what golfers believe will give them an edge, any edge, it doesn't matter. Top professionals in any sport are always looking at the littlest things that could improve their game, look at the lengths Padraig Harrington goes to in order to keep himself at the top. He goes into extraordinary details and planning. If a guy thinks he could get an extra 10 yards on his drives he'd step over his own grandmother to do it, that is massive in golf.

Gary Player says he knows for a fact there are players on tour who use drugs but as always there's a random internet poster who knows better. He says at least 10 but that it could be much higher.
'I know for a fact that some golfers are doing it'

kagni

If, as some are suggesting, muscle mass doesn't give a significant advantage in golf then why has Tiger gone to the trouble of bulking up so much in recent years?

But (IMO) the chances of someone at Tiger's level deciding to take steroids are slim in my opinion. It's more likely to be somone who is a lower ranked using drugs to try and catch up, at least that seems to be the normal pattern with drugs cheats.

The physique below could be natural or with the aid of steroids but until proven otherwise, it has to be presumed he is innocent.

Blunder

First of all Good post SS!

Lads dont be going ott with the defending or villifying of Tiger. THis is actually a big rumour on the tour at the moment. Had a converstation with someone with links to the tour who said that the tour is rife with this story.

I was told of another player on the European tour who was informed by his doctor that there was a medication that would help cure an ailment that they had but that it was on the banned list and that they couldnt be tested for 3 months.
To my knowledge the player took 3 months off last year to allow the medication pass through the system as he felt it was more beneficial to get over the injury than to struggle with it for the remainder of the season.

I have no doubt that this is one of those stories that have started out as a lighthearted banter amongest the players which has grown legs and made its way into the public domain. I dont believe that Tiger would go down this route however tigers physique has really grown from the tiger of the late 90s.
On the other side of the coin I've heard a story of how some PGA tour players were invited to Tigers Home for some off season training and practice with himself. They couldnt keep up with his fitness/practice regime after the 1st day. There is no doubt that he has the drive to push himself the distance in terms of Training.

It is a very interesting debate though and one that I think will continue for some time to come.

youcrazyjesus!

That's a great story about the European player but testing was only introduced this year and players being out injured can still be randomly tested. Doesn't stand up. Tiger also went away injured before testing was introduced. Tiger can still be tested so the only thing that could implicate him is his recovery periodbeing lengthened astronomically. Even then the most likely explanation is a genuine injury setback.

Running Bing

kagni wrote: »

If, as some are suggesting, muscle mass doesn't give a significant advantage in golf then why has Tiger gone to the trouble of bulking up so much in recent years?

Who suggested that?


A physique such as Tiger's in the picture is achievable in a matter of months with the right diet, training regime and commitment (Im sure a top of the line personal trainer and the best of facilities would help).

Any illegal (even legal) supplements whatsoever would be completely unnecessary to attain that level of mass.

ThunderCat

Fact is, most tournaments are won and lost on the greens and Tiger is the very best in the game on the greens under pressure. I dont think any drug could ever achieve that because its down to raw natural talent and countless hours of dedicated practice. I mean what drug could possibly have been used to put his putt on the 72nd hole of the US Open in the hole to force a playoff?? Thats just talent, determination and the will to win.
Its already established that even with the injury layoff he is not imune to still being tested so a phantom knee injury is only doing himself out of majors that he subsequently missed but could have challenged for.
Also its been said that these performance enhancing drugs give athletes extra endurance but the fact of the matter is that for decades golfers have been winning tournaments through playoffs without the use of drugs so even though Tiger won the US Open on a playoff, thats nothing new.

kingshankly

if tiger is on drugs, i want some

fatherbuzcagney

I do not think for a second that Tiger has taken any illegal drugs or cheated in any way at golf. the reason been that if you are going to compete at his level and win multiple majors your mind and conscience must be completly clear. Golf is a battle with your own mind and conscience more than anything else. If had cheated in any way i think that he could not get to the level he is at.

Swinging Looney

New to this discussion so backing up a little:

I find it very hard to believe that Tiger would be on drugs. All the same I really can't understand the whole idea of testing yourself.

Sure it sounds reasonable to say that you tested yourself to check if your supplements contained illegal drugs, but hang on a second, if you had any reason to believe that they might, would you not have the supplements tested before you take them?

If you take them with suspicion, test yourself hoping they're OK, then find you test positive, what next? You would have to remove yourself from the tour, tell the PGA and hope they believe your story, and then wait a week, a month or however long it takes for the illegal stuff to exit your system, then go play golf again.

I can not believe that any top level professional, who makes as much as these guys, would not simply have suspicious drugs tested before they wash them down with their OJ in the morning.

Or am I missing the point completely?

In other realms of sporting life, if you test yourself it is because you want to be sure that the illegal drugs you know you are taking are not going to show up in a test.

Strange.............

harmankardon

i thi kif woods was to be found on drugs it would have massive massive effects on the game,,bad effects,so lets hope that day never arrives.

wooods is one of the true sporting idiols left in the world today....

Blunder

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

That's a great story about the European player but testing was only introduced this year and players being out injured can still be randomly tested. Doesn't stand up. Tiger also went away injured before testing was introduced. Tiger can still be tested so the only thing that could implicate him is his recovery periodbeing lengthened astronomically. Even then the most likely explanation is a genuine injury setback.

Drugs testing was introduced in June/July 2008 iirc. While players can still be tested while off injured, the likelyhood of it happening is slim i would imagine considering the logistics involved. The majority of the Drugs testing takes place during tournament week as the testers will have the best selection of players to choose from. What would happen if a drug tester jets from their base in the States to Windemere in Orlando to take a sample from tiger only to find out that he's over in Hawaii or California or Dubai? Do they try find him or do they Give up? I'd also imagine that they cant really give him notice either as I think it needs to be completely random. I'd be a waste of time and money.

As I said before I dont think tiger is the sort to take performance enhancing drug but its an interesting theory!

PhilipMarlowe

rte.ie reports that he may be back in march but also interestingly says that he previously had a procedure on his knee 2 days after The Masters in April...

ollieryanisold

All very interesting reading.
Drugs in golf simply don't or couldn't work. The only advantage would be to control adrenaline flow..meaning increase it at will and reduce at will. For example increase it to rip a tee shot on demanding par 4 and then immediately reduce it to hit a soft floating wedge. Unless a player is taking the drugs while actually playing then I cannot see how drugs could work...sure they could help in training to get fit.
How about Padraig Harrington...when i was watching him on the 17th/18th at the USPGA and saw his eyes...huge black pupils I thought WOW someone needs to test that guy! and maybe...an addition to consiracy...maybe Paddy got a little advice from Tiger and that's why he mopped up the majors!!!! mad of course and untrue

ShriekingSheet

someone should get you to pee into a cup ollie

istaunton

Dont know about you guys but to do things like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on7Op2bA8x0

Is just pure talent.


Yes i agree that certain drugs will help a player relax and maintain a steady heart rate etc etc. But I'm sure they dont want that all of the time. In fairness to OP it has certainly been an interesting read with some good comments. Which is what i assume he was trying achieve.

Hope you didnt enhance your performance illegally on this one Sheet

markie4

It's been said before, but it's worth saying again, various drugs could absolutely help in golf, whether it's to build muscle mass, endurance, reduce tension and anxiety, increase concentration and any number of different things really.

For many golfers at world class level, even the belief that they had an advantage might be enough to give them an advantage, if you know what I mean. eg Harrington wearing compression suits while flying

I've seen the tiger story on other websites and I'm not sure what to believe, but it's certainly plausible that he was taken something in his protein shakes that would now be on the banned list, but which wasn't being tested for previously....incidently recent reports have Tiger about a stone lighter than this time last year

destroyer

This is crazy. theres simply no way it makes any sense for tiger to be on performance enhancing drugs. Its not like he suddenly improved out of all proportion, he was always a prodigy., also improvement would be
minimal. improve stamina and endurance? Its not boxing. Look at guys like
J Daly, Craig Stadler, even Darren Clarke, hardly fitness freaks yet all
great players M A Jiminez Monty Woosie lots more. So mch of golf is about feel and finesse ,also mental strength that drug help would be
minimal.

pistol_75

heard at the time the tests were introduced that the reason Paul Casey took his break was because he was using illegal substances. He said he took a break to find his game but it was reckoned it was to clean out his system.

ziggy

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