Strength shifting from players to clubs

Kevster · 05-01-2009 11:59am #1

Has anyone noticed that strength appears to be shifting from players back to clubs? Since the summer Cristiano Ronaldo transfer 'saga', it appears to me that clubs have realised that they can actually still hold power over players that they technically own. I mean, there are very strong statements coming out from Newcastle, Middlesbrough, Man Utd, Celtic, and others about other clubs wanting to sell their players. I think it's great, in a way, because now maybe players will think more about the contracts that they sign.

_blank_ · 05-01-2009 12:00pm

Dimitar Berbatov.

Karmafaerie · 05-01-2009 12:03pm

If that was the case, how would Fergie buy anymore players?

If he can't pressurise the club and tempt the player with under the table incentives, how will he ever buy anyone?!;):p

An Citeog · 05-01-2009 12:12pm

Karmafaerie wrote: »

If that was the case, how would Fergie buy anymore players?

If he can't pressurise the club and tempt the player with under the table incentives, how will he ever buy anyone?!;):p

Pot...kettle...Benitez...Gareth Barry...

JPA · 05-01-2009 12:14pm

An Citeog wrote: »

Pot...kettle...Benitez...Gareth Barry...

He's not very good at it though is he?

_blank_ · 05-01-2009 12:14pm

this is going to be a fúcking deadly thread.

Frisbee · 05-01-2009 12:17pm

inforfun · 05-01-2009 12:24pm

Kevster wrote: »

Has anyone noticed that strength appears to be shifting from players back to clubs? Since the summer Cristiano Ronaldo transfer 'saga', it appears to me that clubs have realised that they can actually still hold power over players that they technically own. I mean, there are very strong statements coming out from Newcastle, Middlesbrough, Man Utd, Celtic, and others about other clubs wanting to sell their players. I think it's great, in a way, because now maybe players will think more about the contracts that they sign.

Till the first high profile player uses the Webster arrest

Highsider · 05-01-2009 12:25pm

And now for the latest installment of Liverpool v Man Utd

Fratton Fred · 05-01-2009 12:27pm

jermain the dwarf defoe?

Frisbee · 05-01-2009 12:27pm

Imo players have ridiculous amounts of power over their clubs these days. You could take the Ronaldo example.
But look aswell at Diarra, he hasn't been happy at any club he's gone to and engineered himself a move every time.

Also Hleb last year when he wanted to go to Barca. Arsenal were most likely going to let him go and yet his agent was threatening he'd buy out the rest of his contract before Arsenal had even issued a definitive answer to the request

keane2097 · 05-01-2009 12:32pm

Frisbee wrote: »

Imo players have ridiculous amounts of power over their clubs these days. You could take the Ronaldo example.
But look aswell at Diarra, he hasn't been happy at any club he's gone to and engineered himself a move every time.

Also Hleb last year when he wanted to go to Barca. Arsenal were most likely going to let him go and yet his agent was threatening he'd buy out the rest of his contract before Arsenal had even issued a definitive answer to the request

At least there have been a few instances of clubs refusing to back down lately though. Sure the players still in many cases have the clubs by the balls, but it's all about having a balance and it seems like maybe clubs are getting a share of the power back...

Karmafaerie · 05-01-2009 12:58pm

An Citeog wrote: »

Pot...kettle...Benitez...Gareth Barry...

Looks like you need some help there.
Cause if you consider declaring your interest in a player in the media after you've already approached the club, comparable to the litany of illegal approaches, inviting players to the ground illegally, offering monetary benifits, kidnapping at the airport etc, then you've got a serious complex there my friend.

keane2097 · 05-01-2009 1:01pm

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Looks like you need some help there.
Cause if you consider declaring your interest in a player in the media after you've already approached the club, comparable to the litany of illegal approaches, inviting players to the ground illegally, offering monetary benifits, kidnapping at the airport etc, then you've got a serious complex there my friend.

Ah go on...

astrofool · 05-01-2009 1:11pm

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Looks like you need some help there.
Cause if you consider declaring your interest in a player in the media after you've already approached the club, comparable to the litany of illegal approaches, inviting players to the ground illegally, offering monetary benifits, kidnapping at the airport etc, then you've got a serious complex there my friend.

http://www.facepalm.org/

_blank_ · 05-01-2009 1:29pm

Who was kidnapped Karmafaerie?

Who?

Bounty Hunter · 05-01-2009 1:31pm

Des wrote: »

Who was kidnapped Karmafaerie?

Who?

gotta think hes referring to the hole fergie picking Berbatov up at the airport and personally driving him to old trafford on the last day of the last window story.

_blank_ · 05-01-2009 1:33pm

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

gotta think hes referring to the hole fergie picking Berbatov up at the airport and personally driving him to old trafford on the last day of the last window story.

And he calls that a kidnapping?

there is only one reason he'd do a thing like that, imo.

Bounty Hunter · 05-01-2009 1:40pm

Des wrote: »

And he calls that a kidnapping?

there is only one reason he'd do a thing like that, imo.

its a huge exageration yes, but i do recall something about Spurs not having given the go ahead for him to for a medical/sign personal terms etc as they had not yet agreed a fee (and/or a replacement), but as the fee was only agreed at the last moment united picked him up when he landed instead of waiting and whisked him away to have everything tied away so that the transfer could get pushed through at the last moment when Spurs gave the go ahead.

i.e taken Berbs for a medical/signing personal terms without Spurs permission here is being likened to kidnapping which is silly, think having Campbell on loan helped ease Spurs annoyances though.

PHB · 05-01-2009 3:01pm

The Webster clause isn't as nice and clear cut as everyone thinks. Ultimately it can be a tool, but no top player will want to use it, because its possible you could not play for an entire year due to it being in court.

The strengths are the same imo. It's all about balls I think, and how much you are willing to kick up a fuss.

---

As for Berbatov, Fergie came out afterwards and said he had always had permission to talk to Berbatov and it was just paper crap, and if it wasn't the case, why would Spurs not be complaining to high heaven. It was paper crap.

shane86 · 05-01-2009 3:33pm

Des wrote: »

Who was kidnapped Karmafaerie?

Who?

The Liverpool player burglaries were actually a series of poorly planned kidnap attempts.

Frisbee · 05-01-2009 4:00pm

Des wrote: »

And he calls that a kidnapping?

there is only one reason he'd do a thing like that, imo.

Aye but calling it a kidnapping makes his post sound more sensationalist.

LuckyLloyd · 05-01-2009 4:20pm

Des wrote: »

Dimitar Berbatov.

/thread

Karmafaerie · 05-01-2009 4:24pm

In a purely legal sense.
Seeing as we are talking about commodeties here.

Utd took something contracted to Spurs, without Spurs permission.
ran tests, and discussed personal terms with said Spurs commodity, and then left it back.

Now I'm not the one who coined the term kidnapped, so you can blame the media for that.

Would you prefer stole?
That's more accurate.

Or maybe you can say "borrowed" and make the bunny ears sign.

Or maybe you'd like to use the football lingo, of tapping up.

Alex Ferguson might as well have coined the phrase himself.

Ajern Robben/Japp Stam/Dimitar Berbitov/Ruud Van Nistlerooy/Ronaldinho/Julien Escude/David Bellion/Wayne Rooney/Rio Ferdinand/Saha/Owen Hargreaves

And it's not a bloody secret.

On Ronhaldinho

Francis Graille wrote:

Manchester have not played the game in line with FIFA regulations. They have negotiated directly with the player. Even if they have got agreement from the player, they haven't got agreement from his club.

On Bellion.

Bob Murray wrote:

shabby, despicable, disrespectful, arrogant and unprofessional.

On Saha

Mohammed Al Fayed wrote:

He constantly unsettling my players

On Hargreaves

Karl-Heinz Rummenigge wrote:

We have told Manchester United that they should stop trying to tempt Owen Hargreaves. If they don't, then we will have to turn to FIFA.

On Robben/RVN/Stam

2000

Harry van Raaij wrote:

he has crossed the line of decency.

2004

Harry van Raaij wrote:

United approached us some months ago about their interest in Arjen but then I heard that Robben was in Manchester last week and I didn't know anything about that. There was absolutely no contact from any United delegate and we are unhappy that we did not know one of our players was visiting another club without our permission.

I have had good relations with Manchester United in the past over the Ruud van Nistelrooy and Jaap Stam transfers but bad relations with Ferguson. I recognise here exactly the same actions as when he approached them both. It is Ferguson's way of doing business but it is not my way. You can look back and see similarities to what happened with Stam and Van Nistelrooy. It just seems that, with Ferguson, a leopard never loses its spots.

But of course everyone else is wrong.
Alex is just a misunderstood angel, who everyone picks on.
Poor little Alex.
:rolleyes:

PHB · 05-01-2009 4:33pm

It's not a bloody secret, you'd be stupid to think United don't do it. They didn't kidnap Berbatov on the transfer day though, they had permission to talk to him.

SantryRed · 05-01-2009 4:41pm

What about Forlan?

Didn't he pick up Forlan when he was on his way through the airport to sign for Boro?

Karmafaerie · 05-01-2009 4:46pm

PHB wrote: »

It's not a bloody secret, you'd be stupid to think United don't do it. They didn't kidnap Berbatov on the transfer day though, they had permission to talk to him.

I know that everyone does it, and that the only reason that Fergie is famous for it, is that he's been the most succesfull with it.

But if you believe pretty much all in the know, Berbatov had permission to speak with a team in Manchester, just not that team.;)

iregk · 05-01-2009 4:58pm

PHB wrote: »

They didn't kidnap Berbatov

Maybe he was getting confused with the GAA and aul boot of a car!!!

_blank_ · 05-01-2009 4:59pm

iregk wrote: »

Maybe he was getting confused with the GAA and aul boot of a car!!!

Or Obi Wan Mikel.

Karmafaerie · 05-01-2009 5:01pm

Everyone taps up.

It's just the bigger the club, the easier it is to do, and Utd over the last decade, have been the biggest club, and still are.

Just like Madrid are famous for it in Spain.

Guy:Incognito · 05-01-2009 5:01pm

Alex Ferguson ate my hamster.

keane2097 · 05-01-2009 5:01pm

Karmafaerie wrote: »

In a purely legal sense.
Seeing as we are talking about commodeties here.

Utd took something contracted to Spurs, without Spurs permission.
ran tests, and discussed personal terms with said Spurs commodity, and then left it back.

Now I'm not the one who coined the term kidnapped, so you can blame the media for that.

Would you prefer stole?
That's more accurate.

Or maybe you can say "borrowed" and make the bunny ears sign.

Or maybe you'd like to use the football lingo, of tapping up.

Alex Ferguson might as well have coined the phrase himself.

Ajern Robben/Japp Stam/Dimitar Berbitov/Ruud Van Nistlerooy/Ronaldinho/Julien Escude/David Bellion/Wayne Rooney/Rio Ferdinand/Saha/Owen Hargreaves

And it's not a bloody secret.

On Ronhaldinho

On Bellion.

On Saha

On Hargreaves

On Robben/RVN/Stam

2000

2004

But of course everyone else is wrong.
Alex is just a misunderstood angel, who everyone picks on.
Poor little Alex.
:rolleyes:

Hang on, you've quoted there from the Dutch fellow saying he gave out about the way United went about signing Stam and RVN, and then quoted the same guy saying he had a good relationship with Ferguson from the signings of RVN and Stam?

What gives?

Karmafaerie · 05-01-2009 5:05pm

keane2097 wrote: »

Hang on, you've quoted there from the Dutch fellow saying he gave out about the way United went about signing Stam and RVN, and then quoted the same guy saying he had a good relationship with Ferguson from the signings of RVN and Stam?

What gives?

Wanna read that again?

I have had good relations with Manchester United in the past over the Ruud van Nistelrooy and Jaap Stam transfers but bad relations with Ferguson

keane2097 · 05-01-2009 5:25pm

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Wanna read that again?

It's either one thing or the other - the man's talking bollocks imo.

event · 05-01-2009 6:35pm

yet as far as i remember, its only really liverpool and chelsea who were ever charged with making illegal approaches for a player

funny that

Karmafaerie · 05-01-2009 6:54pm

keane2097 wrote: »

It's either one thing or the other - the man's talking bollocks imo.

No he isn't.

Why would Fergie breaking the rules mean that "Dutch fellow" Raaij wouldn't have a good relationship with David Gill?

You think Ferguson asks Gills permission before he taps players up?

How about we read another wuote from Raaij.

I have spoken to (United chief executive) David Gill since I learned of the visit and he was a little embarrassed and said that the initiative was taken by Robben's parents.

Now if you want to believe that Robens parents managed to organise a trip for him to meet the Utd manager, technical, and coaching staff, all on their own, then I've got some magic beans to sell you.

But it doesn't change the fact that David Gill was appoligising to Raaij for Ferguson flaunting FIFA rules.

Karmafaerie · 05-01-2009 7:00pm

event wrote: »

yet as far as i remember, its only really liverpool and chelsea who were ever charged with making illegal approaches for a player

funny that

Funny that isn't it.

I mean the FA didn't try and bring alligations over the Jaap Stam case, you now the one where he openly admitted that Ferguson had tapped him up now did they, only to be told it was a FIFA juristiction due to it being an international transfer.
And Utd then didn't sell him straight away, so as to stop the FIFA investigation.:rolleyes:

astrofool · 05-01-2009 8:22pm

Soooo, who exactly did Alex Ferguson kidnap? And did he get his ransom, or was he flushed out after a police raid?

Nothing like a delusional fan to drag a thread into rampant off topic-ness, I'd say Mr. Alan will have a fair fight next year in the most biased poster category.

event · 05-01-2009 9:55pm

Karmafaerie wrote: »

And Utd then didn't sell him straight away, so as to stop the FIFA investigation.:rolleyes:

Kevster · 05-01-2009 10:24pm

My my, isn't it amazing the type of **** that people post about over the course of a day! (compliment) I started this thread this morning and didn't expect anyone to agree with me. However, I feel that clubs have more power than they used to, or they are at least trying harder to hang onto players.

Strength shifting from players to clubs

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