Would YOU drop B O'D for the 6 nations

Sandwich

Without all the ins and outs of whether Darcy can be match fit, has Earls enough experience, has Fitzgerald has this or that weakness etc.

In short :

Would you drop Brian O'Driscoll for the 6 nations ?

Jokesetal

He had a big effect there on Friday night when he came on.
Nuff said!:p

Sangre

No. If anyone should be dropped I think its Fitz, he just isn't clicking at all in the centre. The flat play Gaffney insists on playing means he is used as a battering ram more often than not which is a waste of his pace and step, not to mention he isn't exactly huge. His distribution seems very dodgy in last few games as well. Played much better when ever he came off the wing into the attacking line.

Sabre0001

I don't think you can outright drop central players - even if not firing on all cylinders, they have experience and that can stand to the team as a whole more at times. However, some mix and match is needed - that does not mean 15 changes between a match against France and a match v Italy or anything like that. But try players out and stress that we are trying to develop towards a World Cup...

Zzippy

No. He may not have the pace of old, but he is still our best centre and classiest player. Would like to see him and D'Arcy/Wallace starting in 6Ns. Fitz has been cr@p lately, has not delivered on early promise at all. Earls I would like to see starting against Italy and Scotland, but not the big games. Our 5 first choice centres should be BOD, D'Arcy, Wallace, Earls, Fitz, in that order, as long as Darce is back to form and fitness by the time the tournament starts.

Why the hell would you drop him?

He is joint top scorer in the heneken cup,scored a cracker against wasps and showed he still has alot of pace against Edinburgh.He got injured a few weeks ago and has barely played since.
If we go on the form he showed last month,then he is the best centre in europe and of course he will start.

Stupid thread tbh

hes lost it alright:

No pace anymore!

This is getting old!

kmart6

No...end of!!!

jam_on_toast

No, he is past his best but he is still a very good player given good service.

Our backline needs a change in personnel closer to the scrum.

I would not have him as captain any longer, but that is another issue altogether.

Stev_o

I think he should be dropped and is more a victim of his own position where there is a better 12 around and personally i think a better 13 suited to the gameplan going to be used. Goose out of those clips only the last one shows anything in terms of good play by BOD and sadly youtube doesn't show his rubbish kicks he's started doing. First two things he did against Connacht were two awful kicks straight into opposition wingers hands. On the one hand you'd want him there for experience etc but on the other hand there's more form players available for selection.

wixfjord

No way would I drop him, a player like that never loses that little spark of magic, even if he has lost some speed. I would however move him to 12. I cannot understand how such a widely recognised poor kicker has stayed in one of the main kicking positions. Dont think he will make the lions either, henson, flutey, turner hall etc all ahead imo at 12 anyway.

Stev_o

Stev_o wrote: »

I think he should be dropped and is more a victim of his own position where there is a better 12 around and personally i think a better 13 suited to the gameplan going to be used. Goose out of those clips only the last one shows anything in terms of good play by BOD and sadly youtube doesn't show his rubbish kicks he's started doing. First two things he did against Connacht were two awful kicks straight into opposition wingers hands. On the one hand you'd want him there for experience etc but on the other hand there's more form players available for selection.

You dont think the wasps try was good?
Id like to see what matches youve been watching.

The kicks he has been doing are with Leinster,Ireland is a different animal.If paddy wallace or darce is inside,he wont have to kick.

wixfjord wrote: »

No way would I drop him, a player like that never loses that little spark of magic, even if he has lost some speed. I would however move him to 12. I cannot understand how such a widely recognised poor kicker has stayed in one of the main kicking positions. Dont think he will make the lions either, henson, flutey, turner hall etc all ahead imo at 12 anyway.

12 or 2nd 5 8th in nz esp,requires the player to be a much better kicker than the 13.So that doesnt make sense.
Hence why paddy wallace is able to play 10,a good 12 like gitau can play 10 or carter playing 12 etc.
If people think he is a bad kicker,then a move to 12 is an insane call and this is what alot of people are saying these days.

wikipedia
"The inside centre share many qualities of the flyhalf, for example, kicking, distribution. They must also be a very good tackler, and usually lead a rush defense if it is called. A good centre will be one of the most versatile players in the game: it is easy to switch from there to the wing, fullback, or flyhalf"

RugbyFanatic

I believe hes being told to kick for Leinster the only time I've seen him do these kicks for Ireland was when ROG couldn't find touch against Argentina and NZ and in fairness to him he got them but if Humphreys is to start for Ireland then these kicks will be unneccesary as we will have an outhalf able to find touch (I hope) on the international stage.

barnesd

No, he's worth his place for defence alone.

Stev_o

Alexa Kind Stabilizer wrote: »

You dont think the wasps try was good?
Id like to see what matches youve been watching.

The kicks he has been doing are with Leinster,Ireland is a different animal.If paddy wallace or darce is inside,he wont have to kick.

Well all he does is kick the ball mid air against a horrible player i dunno how its defined as pure class, luck maybe class i dunno? Theres been better tries this season then that

omb0wyn5ehpij9

jam_on_toast wrote: »

No, he is past his best but he is still a very good player given good service.

Our backline needs a change in personnel closer to the scrum.

I would not have him as captain any longer, but that is another issue altogether.

Agreed. I would get rid of O'Gara well before i would get rid of BOD

wixfjord

Alexa Kind Stabilizer wrote: »

You dont think the wasps try was good?
Id like to see what matches youve been watching.

The kicks he has been doing are with Leinster,Ireland is a different animal.If paddy wallace or darce is inside,he wont have to kick.



12 or 2nd 5 8th in nz esp,requires the player to be a much better kicker than the 13.So that doesnt make sense.
Hence why paddy wallace is able to play 10,a good 12 like gitau can play 10 or carter playing 12 etc.
If people think he is a bad kicker,then a move to 12 is an insane call and this is what alot of people are saying these days.

wikipedia
"The inside centre share many qualities of the flyhalf, for example, kicking, distribution. They must also be a very good tackler, and usually lead a rush defense if it is called. A good centre will be one of the most versatile players in the game: it is easy to switch from there to the wing, fullback, or flyhalf"

Sorry, meant to say away from 12. And before someone says it I know he doesnt play here, but atm he is interchangeable with fitz and slots in very frequently to 12.

wixfjord

wixfjord wrote: »

Sorry, meant to say away from 12. And before someone says it I know he doesnt play here, but atm he is interchangeable with fitz and slots in very frequently to 12.

very true,I also dont believe either will ever be able to play 12 successfully.
and fitz could do worse than continuing his trade on the wing.

bleg

no but i don't think he needs to start every match either i.e. try a new combination of wallace and earls in the centre perhaps

thehighground

I don't think he should be dropped. Major problem with him is that he only seems to have about 50/60 minutes so its important that we have someone who can slot in and replace him (not sure Fitzgerald is that option).

twinytwo

Hardly.. even on a bad day he is still the best 13 we have. How many times has it be said and proven that ireland is only half the side without him?

premierstone

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I believe hes being told to kick for Leinster the only time I've seen him do these kicks for Ireland was when ROG couldn't find touch against Argentina and NZ and in fairness to him he got them but if Humphreys is to start for Ireland then these kicks will be unneccesary as we will have an outhalf able to find touch (I hope) on the international stage.

Im trying to remember the last time you posted on a thread without having a dig at ROG, its really getting tiresome at this stage :mad:

On topic no i dont think BOD should be dropped he's defence is incredible and also if we are to bring in Cave or Earls who better to learn off than BOD

Timothy Bryce

His defence is second to none but outside of this I don't see much more that he has to offer...

However I reckon Fitzgerald should get the boot long before BOD. He can't catch, run or pass consistently and is clearly not a centre.

zAbbo

BOD at inside, Earls on the outside, with Fitz & Bowe on the wing, and Kearney at FB.

He's our best inside centre by a mile, and unless someone can put their hand up and take the outside spot - he's also the best outside too.

Regardless where he plays, he'll be no.13 - don't let this confuse you

Stev_o

Look Ireland will end up playing as flat as a pancake come 6N and BOD will be used as a bosh merchant which he doesnt have the body for. If your going to play right on the gain line you need to have either a very powerful 12 ala Roberts, Turner-Hall or Nonu or a very direct 13 Mortlock, Jacobs etc. BOD doesnt fit into either of those categories and as i said is a victim of his position as 12 would be the most obvious choice then but there's a better 12 in the country.

Otacon

I voted 'No' however, I would like to say I think we do need to experiment more in the centre. Players like Fitz, Cave and Earls have huge potential and while I would like to do well in the 6N, developing the team is more important imo.

Of course, don't get rid of him. He is the best player we have. But we shouldn't be afraid to bench him for a game.

crisco10

Otacon wrote: »

I voted 'No' however, I would like to say I think we do need to experiment more in the centre. Players like Fitz, Cave and Earls have huge potential and while I would like to do well in the 6N, developing the team is more important imo.

Of course, don't get rid of him. He is the best player we have. But we shouldn't be afraid to bench him for a game.

+1

And lets not forget, that D'arcy was only unearthed as a centre when BOD was injured. This meant that when BOD came back we were suddenly blessed at centre!
So BOD being benched here and there will give more opportunity to find his replacement.

I voted "NO" to being dropped though. More like rested against Italy etc..

Moncti48

crisco10 wrote: »

+1

And lets not forget, that D'arcy was only unearthed as a centre when BOD was injured. This meant that when BOD came back we were suddenly blessed at centre!
So BOD being benched here and there will give more opportunity to find his replacement.

I voted "NO" to being dropped though. More like rested against Italy
etc..

Voted no aswel, however i agree with this in that we need to try new things, theres no harm in resting BOD against italy and scotland, if things are going bad, he can always come on to give that little bit extra.

If we dont try something at this almost transitional phase of irish rugby, we wont stand a chance in the WC because guarnted Aus and all the other SH teams wont carry plays just beacause of a reputation.

Hazys

Drop him for Earls and Fitzgerald: maybe in a year or two

Drop him for Darcy: Crazy

O'Driscoll is our best option at centre at d mo but he hasnt been as good as he was in the past. Still very good defensively which Declan Kidney likes but offensively hes no where near where he was 5 years ago.

I dont get why people cant see how far Darcy has dropped. O'Driscoll certainly hasnt dropped that far in 5 years. I have said this in a previous thread even if Darcy comes back from injury at the form from last year its still way below Ireland's expectations. If you give him time maybe but not straight away into the team.

I think people need to get over how great O'Driscoll and Darcy were 5 years ago cos its not coming back. Maybe Earls and Fitzgerald will never be as good as O'Driscoll and Darcy were 5 years ago but they can be better than they are currently in a year or two's time

Micky Dolenz

Call me crazy, but I think he is playing his best rugby in a long while. He was nothing short of awesome against wasps and his work rate in defense is probably the most impressive aspect of his game.

Moncti48

Hazys wrote: »

Drop him for Earls and Fitzgerald: maybe in a year or two

Drop him for Darcy: Crazy

O'Driscoll is our best option at centre at d mo but he hasnt been as good as he was in the past. Still very good defensively which Declan Kidney likes but offensively hes no where near where he was 5 years ago.

I dont get why people cant see how far Darcy has dropped. O'Driscoll certainly hasnt dropped that far in 5 years. I have said this in a previous thread even if Darcy comes back from injury at the form from last year its still way below Ireland's expectations. If you give him time maybe but not straight away into the team.

I think people need to get over how great O'Driscoll and Darcy were 5 years ago cos its not coming back. Maybe Earls and Fitzgerald will never be as good as O'Driscoll and Darcy were 5 years ago but they can be better than they are currently in a year or two's time

i dont think the Irish Rugby fans are living with the idea of BOD and darcy in the centre, i think its the management.

Fitzgearld not a center yet however maybe wallace and earls centre, might be good with wallace having a good rugby mind and earls talent fitz on wing with bowe on other and kearney at FB might be the best combination we could get in a few years( On current form)

However there is no way any Irish Coach will risk trying something new as they never have nor will they ever:mad:

A permanant move to 12 is probably the worst thing you could do with him.People complain about his weak kicking and then say he should be switched to 12,where you have to kick alot more.You either want one or the other,what is it?

As the op said,he is playing his best rugby in a long time and I expect big things from him in the 6 nations.Hopefully Gaffney will play deep and give up on this stupid flat idea.If he cant get it working with Leinster what are the chances he will get it working with ireland.

Auvers

I have also voted no, BOD may have lost some pace but he can still pull off a bit of magic when needed, altough we should be resting him v Italy\Scotland and try some different centre combos.

@ premierstone
I reckon Rugbyfanatic has a secret crush on ROG and probably only way of suppressing these emotions is to slag him off while fondling himself

buck65

Bryn wrote: »

Agreed. I would get rid of O'Gara well before i would get rid of BOD

Here we go.

buck65

buck65 wrote: »

Here we go.

I agree that Rog should defo be playing but I do think this is the year that one of the young 10's gets some meaningful gametime.Would you not agree?

say 20 minutes at the end of the matches we are winning.

Timothy Bryce

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Call me crazy, but I think he is playing his best rugby in a long while. He was nothing short of awesome against wasps and his work rate in defense is probably the most impressive aspect of his game.

Come on! He hasn't been awesome.....he's slow, lacks innovation and generally looks disinterested on the field. He had a good game against a very poor Wasps side and everyone's suddenly saying he's back to his best?

He kicks the ball with little or no forethought - epitomised by his kicking display against Castres. When they needed an experienced player to keep the head and play to their strengths he stepped up and ruined their last chance at salvaging something from the game.

He's on the decline - people need to accept this.

boredatwork82

I would drop BOD as a 13, Fitz or Earls would be better suited to 13. I would try him at 12 though.

I would also drop ROG, force him to raise his game, Keatley or Humps jr would be well able to play 6 nations, and are both playing well.

Micky Dolenz

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

Come on! He hasn't been awesome.....he's slow, lacks innovation and generally looks disinterested on the field. He had a good game against a very poor Wasps side and everyone's suddenly saying he's back to his best?

He kicks the ball with little or no forethought - epitomised by his kicking display against Castres. When they needed an experienced player to keep the head and play to their strengths he stepped up and ruined their last chance at salvaging something from the game.

He's on the decline - people need to accept this.

I think his work rate off the ball is enough for him to be on the Irish team.

You would expect a player of his mileage to be in decline, he has played alot of rugby. I still think he has a lot to offer. How many tries has he scored in the cup this year so far?

boredatwork82

boredatwork82 wrote: »

I would drop BOD as a 13, Fitz or Earls would be better suited to 13. I would try him at 12 though.

I would also drop ROG, force him to raise his game, Keatley or Humps jr would be well able to play 6 nations, and are both playing well.

Hes not a 12 and paddy wallace is playing well.I would rather have Bod at 13 over the other kids.

Moncti48

Alexa Kind Stabilizer wrote: »

A permanant move to 12 is probably the worst thing you could do with him.People complain about his weak kicking and then say he should be switched to 12,where you have to kick alot more.You either want one or the other,what is it?

As the op said,he is playing his best rugby in a long time and I expect big things from him in the 6 nations.Hopefully Gaffney will play deep and give up on this stupid flat idea.If he cant get it working with Leinster what are the chances he will get it working with ireland.

hes got a better kicking game than fitzgearld!! but again if ireland are going to go with a second kicking option at 12 instead of what they normally go with, (Running centres) then wallace (maybe earls-unproven at kicking,but dam****e better than fitz) would be the best person.

premierstone

Moncti48 wrote: »

i dont think the Irish Rugby fans are living with the idea of BOD and darcy in the centre, i think its the management.

What are you basing that on considering Darcy hasnt been available for any game Declan Kidney has been in charge for and has not mentioned him once in the media, are you privy to info that we're not??

Timothy Bryce

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I think his work rate off the ball is enough for him to be on the Irish team.

You would expect a player of his mileage to be in decline, he has played alot of rugby. I still think he has a lot to offer. How many tries has he scored in the cup this year so far?

He's in decline and I'd like to see Kidney take a chance in the centre partnerships. He's scored a few tries this season but then again Fitzgerald scored a try on Saturday yet he played like a ham sandwich. Quantity of tries doesn't indicate quality of performance

Moncti48

premierstone wrote: »

What are you basing that on considering Darcy hasnt been available for any game Declan Kidney has been in charge for and has not mentioned him once in the media, are you privy to info that we're not??

???????????? wha now! it was in relation to the past and how irish management have always ran with the same players instead of introducing new blood except when they needed to!! I never said darcy was to play or not to play, and secondly everybody in here is just speculating what they think or would like to see will be the next irish team for the 6n.

RugbyFanatic

Auvers wrote: »

@ premierstone
I reckon Rugbyfanatic has a secret crush on ROG and probably only way of suppressing these emotions is to slag him off while fondling himself

Well I have a theory that our poor backline play has been due to two reasons

(1) O'Gara playing so poorly
(2) Gaffney

Humphreys is making Wallace look like a top international player he is doing what ROG was once so good at in creating space for his centres if ROG was to be dropped in my opinion we would see a marked improvement

though with Gaffney still at the helm it would be just that, an improvement and not a return to 2004 form

premierstone

Moncti48 wrote: »

???????????? wha now! it was in relation to the past and how irish management have always ran with the same players instead of introducing new blood except when they needed to!! I never said darcy was to play or not to play, and secondly everybody in here is just speculating what they think or would like to see will be the next irish team for the 6n.

And what has previous managements practices got to do with Declan Kidney and he's management team

thehighground

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Well I have a theory that our poor backline play has been due to two reasons

(1) O'Gara playing so poorly
(2) Gaffney

Humphreys is making Wallace look like a top international player he is doing what ROG was once so good at in creating space for his centres if ROG was to be dropped in my opinion we would see a marked improvement

though with Gaffney still at the helm it would be just that, an improvement and not a return to 2004 form

Paddy Wallace looked pretty good during the tour down under. Any chance you might think that a few of the other 'backline' stars are not playing that well and that its not all ROG's fault as Leinster are on a par with Ireland and even with world star Contempomi at kicking/OH/inside centre, Nacewa and Holwell at 10.

phog

In a word No - but he needs to control his eagerness to kick, he is much better at running at the defence.

Even if he wasn't a threat he is an excellent defender and there aren't too many more centres in Ireland that you can say that about.

If I was to drop one at the moment it would be Fitz or at least move him to the wing.

RugbyFanatic

thehighground wrote: »

Paddy Wallace looked pretty good during the tour down under. Any chance you might think that a few of the other 'backline' stars are not playing that well and that its not all ROG's fault as Leinster are on a par with Ireland and even with world star Contempomi at kicking/OH/inside centre, Nacewa and Holwell at 10.

I already stated that Gaffney was the other reason.

Gaffney is also backs coach for Leinster by the way

Moncti48

Moncti48 wrote: »

???????????? wha now! it was in relation to the past and how irish management have always ran with the same players instead of introducing new blood except when they needed to!! I never said darcy was to play or not to play, and secondly everybody in here is just speculating what they think or would like to see will be the next irish team for the 6n.

I would fully expect Kidney to use 2 12's over the 6 nations.Darcy and Wallace.Most countries would love an option of being able to bring in a player such as the quality of Darce.

I also understand from reading Eddie O'Sullivans articles etc,that the senior players eg Bod,Poc and Rog are consulted before each match for opnions and if asked im sure Bod would ask to be paired with Darcy in the middle.So we may see more of Darcy than people think.

anonymous_joe

Hmmm.

Brian O'Driscoll...

Objectively speaking, Brian O'Driscoll's an extraordinarily talented centre, whose a bit slower than he was, and not so much injury prone (he is a bit) but mainly just never given a chance to get properly fit.

If I recall rightly, O'Driscoll's one of the top try scorers in teh HC at the moment?

The guys an absolute class act as a centre, and still looking very good. Though perhaps more opportunities to rest when not fully fit wouldn't go amiss.

For a long time people have been calling for him to be moved to 12, and I've said it myself too, but there's a big problem with that - Paddy Wallace. At the moment, Paddy Wallace is probably the form centre in Ireland. He's playing better than any other 12 (or 13 for that matter). If he doesn't get a game this 6 Nations then I'll seriously be wondering what Kidney's at.

I'd suggest that fully fit, Wallace at 12 and O'Driscoll at 13 would be very good. With D'arcy coming back into the frame, Cave looking very good at Ulster as well, Ireland currently have four decent looking centres, two for each jersey.

I'd be more inclined to drop Fitzgerald - a magnificent talent incapable of succeeding with the style of attacking we're using.

corny

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Hmmm.

Brian O'Driscoll...

Objectively speaking, Brian O'Driscoll's an extraordinarily talented centre, whose a bit slower than he was, and not so much injury prone (he is a bit) but mainly just never given a chance to get properly fit.

If I recall rightly, O'Driscoll's one of the top try scorers in teh HC at the moment?

The guys an absolute class act as a centre, and still looking very good. Though perhaps more opportunities to rest when not fully fit wouldn't go amiss.

For a long time people have been calling for him to be moved to 12, and I've said it myself too, but there's a big problem with that - Paddy Wallace. At the moment, Paddy Wallace is probably the form centre in Ireland. He's playing better than any other 12 (or 13 for that matter). If he doesn't get a game this 6 Nations then I'll seriously be wondering what Kidney's at.

I'd suggest that fully fit, Wallace at 12 and O'Driscoll at 13 would be very good. With D'arcy coming back into the frame, Cave looking very good at Ulster as well, Ireland currently have four decent looking centres, two for each jersey.

I'd be more inclined to drop Fitzgerald - a magnificent talent incapable of succeeding with the style of attacking we're using.

Completely agree. Should be returned to the wing where space isn't at a total premium. BOD should stay outside centre for the foreseable future.

cmcsoft

I wouldn't drop him, he' still our best centre. I don't think we have a partner for him though at the moment