Do you buy in to the whole Mac thing?

Zascar

I've been a huge PC man for about 15 years now. I've always had an interest in Apple and Mac's - but really I've never really got what everyone else sees in them. I don't have any massively different requirements to everyone else - I surf the internet a lot, design a few small websites, I do a lot with music, movies and photos etc and many Mac heads will say that for these types of things Macs are way better - full stop.

Ok yes I know they almost never crash and they don't get viruses etc, but really I don't have that many problems with my PC. I'm still using XP, a pretty old OS at this stage, but it works and I know my way around it very well.

I have given Macs a try a good few times, and really I just don't get it. People say they are easier but it just does not seem intuitive to me. Maybe if you are completely new to computers a Mac may be easier to pick up, but I got one like the way there are lots of different ways to achieve one task on a pc, but on a mac there is often only one, and in my experience, any tinkering with settings behind the scenes can be quite tricky even for relatively simple tasks.

Why are they so popular, surely its not just because everyone thinks they are 'cool' - so what are the real reasons macs are supposedly better than PC's? How many people here have actually made the switch from pc to mac and never looked back - what were the reasons behind this?

Woden

Subscribing out of interest.

I look at them from time to time. Have used a couple of macbooks for a few hours. They seem very nice, nicely designed etc but they don't meet my requirements with respect to gaming. Can't find anything better than a 8800 GT. The other thing that irks me is the price. I have a couple of friends that tell my they have become more resonable over the years however I go to check out there website there now and you're looking at 1600 for a 24inch iMac and then to upgrade costs to 4gb ram and a larger drive are imo extortinate.

I suppose you can compare to dell perhaps who can often be no better in this regard wrt component choice and upgrade cost on a base package. However you are not limited to dell for a pc you can build or go wherever you want e.g. komplett and pick the components you are interested in.

So for me Macs seem like an expensive way of being limited for what these days is just a different OS on the same hardware as a pc?

mike65

Macs are not that popular are they? 3.5% is pretty dismal and less than in 1999 when they were just over 4%. Dispite all the nonsense "lifestyle marketing" most people buy a machine to do a job rather than to gaze as its beauty and feel warm and a little smug as the latest windows security story is discussed.

jester77

I had always used windows and never a mac, needed windows as I used to do some windows development. But I just can't use Vista, I find it awful. I tried it out for a while and ended up going back to XP. The interface made my eyes bleed and the amount of popups just to do something simple was ridiculous. I was due an upgrade this year and decided to give the mac a go and I'm not disappointed. The transition from XP to mac was alot easier than the transition I had from XP to vista earlier on!

mike65

I use Vista in old school mode, looks little different to win98 You can always turn off the "admin" feature.

hideous ape

The only reason to go Mac is MacOSX, as the hardware is just PC parts in a pretty shell.
Apple builds the system and the OS so everything *should* run more smoothly than most PC's, thats the theory anyway:)
MacOSX is a Unix OS so it's about as bulletproof as an OS gets for most users.
Its a very efficient OS so will run quite happily on older Macs.
So either you like OSX or you don't...I do so will buy a Mac soon.

I looked at the current OS options for a new DAW: XP is too old, Vista is cack for audio (tested it for two months), Windows 7 will take years to get stable, Linux can't use my preferred apps. That leaves MacOSX.

Market share isn't such a big issue for Apple as you have to remember the profits that Apple pulls in from each Mac sold.
One of the reasons for the high price and Apples profits is their business model...the pricing on a product does not change throughout it's lifetime.
Every other company drops the price a number of times as their product ages. The only way to avoid getting stung is to only get a Mac after a refresh. At least then your getting the latest hardware for your cash.

For example, only a nutter would buy a current Mac Pro desktop now as a refresh is just around the corner. The Mac Pro's haven't been refreshed since this time last year. So you would be paying crazy money for year old technology. The new model will launch at the current price or lower if Apple have any recession awareness at all:)

evil-monkey

You can always put Windows on a MAC, but the Apple OS's are nice, built on Unix, so are very stable and secure. I'm a Windows / Solaris man myself, and have never owned a MAC. And truth be told, I never will. They are pretty all right, and as I said, not having Windows on MAC is no longer an issue, and Leopard and co are very nice...but, and this is a big but, as another poster has already pointed out - they are WAY over priced. Is it worth paying that much more because something is pretty?? Unless it's a hooker, not in my book...

mike65

Apple Macs fiscal success has come from price gouging - a bit like BMW v Ford. A 2.0 Mondeo is a good car and better than a 2.0 BMW 3 series but the badge factor means people will still pay 6 grand more for the latter.

Ghost Train

Well I like working with hardware and software and with windows its usually possible to get everything working to do what you want... even if its not as perfect as it could be

With a mac I imagine I would feel more locked in and limited in what I could do. Things like games, media centre accessories, installing OS's and new hardware. I like tinkering with windows and not bothered about the Mac image, design or advertising which seems to be in some ways what you pay extra for. Do own an ipod touch though :P

hideous ape

In fairness though Apple are unique so what works for the majority of the IT world such as pricing does not apply to Apple. They have to ensure both hardware and software functions as a solid unit. This is not a cheap business to run or manage. Most other companies are either just software or just hardware. If Microsoft started building systems and locked down Windows 7 just to Microsoft boxes you would see their prices similar to Apples.

As Apple are unique they can charge what they like and free-thinking consumers can make their own mind up. I'm an old Commodore Amiga user so can appreciate the work that Apple does.

Feelgood

Zascar wrote: »

Ok yes I know they almost never crash and they don't get viruses etc

I think you answered your own question Zas!. Think about the huge overhead on any Windows OS.

At a bare minimum you have to have, anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-adware, anti - root kits the list goes on and on. People don't realise it but this concept on its own is HUGE. So many people buy from Dell or elsewhere that think their PC is secure, just because an anti-virus product is installed. 6 months down the line they are in a repair store because their PC is running ****e. I ask the same questions everytime and get the same answers. Did you update your anti virus and run scans every week? - eh didn't know I had to do that. Did you install Windows updates?. Eh didn't know I had to do that.

Its probably hard to believe in this day and age but about 80% of people aren't PC savvy, they can't grasp the concept of anti virus, updates, browser vunerabilities etc etc and to be honest they shouldn't really have to either.

So this is where a Mac comes into play, it takes all the bullcrap out of using a PC. It just works out of the box and is extremely easy to use if your not a PC head and just wan't to do basic PC tasks and thats why its getting so popular. Believe it or not people will buy a Mac solely based on the fact that they don't have to worry about Anti Virus updates and yeah a lot of people would buy them cause they look cool too!.

Is Mac OS better than Windows, yes and no. I'd say give OSX another year or two and it will be though.

Hogzy

great thread OP;)

Im half getting more suckered into the whole mac thing, was tempted to go up north in the coming weeks to buy the new macbook! Im buying it as a second computer, already have a cracking desktop that i use for gaming however due to work/college im in desperate need for a laptop!

Id simply use the mac for Music,web surfing,Photo editing and primarily word processing! However forking out that much money for a laptop that simply doesnt crash i dont think is worth it...

If you like the look of OSX then download this!

VistaOSX

snappieT

I own both a Mac and a Windows laptop. The Mac stays in college, the other laptop at home.
I'm in computer science, and I find that OSX is great for developers. There are tonnes of funky, easy to use tools, written by people like me, for people like me. You can install Word, Powerpoint & Excel on OSX. I know it's clichéd at this stage, but it just works.

Without a doubt, coding is easier on a Unix/BSD base (rather than a Windows one). But with Debian, Ubuntu, RedHat or any other distro I've ever used, you have to start messing around with driver issues and various incompatibilities. I can't use iTunes, Word, Powerpoint etc. It's just not user friendly.

OSX gives me the best of both worlds: a nice place to code without any of the uphill struggle to get Linux to do what you want.

Donald-Duck

hideous ape wrote: »

The only reason to go Mac is MacOSX, as the hardware is just PC parts in a pretty shell.
Apple builds the system and the OS so everything *should* run more smoothly than most PC's, thats the theory anyway:)
MacOSX is a Unix OS so it's about as bulletproof as an OS gets for most users.
Its a very efficient OS so will run quite happily on older Macs.
So either you like OSX or you don't...I do so will buy a Mac soon.

I looked at the current OS options for a new DAW: XP is too old, Vista is cack for audio (tested it for two months), Windows 7 will take years to get stable, Linux can't use my preferred apps. That leaves MacOSX.

Market share isn't such a big issue for Apple as you have to remember the profits that Apple pulls in from each Mac sold.
One of the reasons for the high price and Apples profits is their business model...the pricing on a product does not change throughout it's lifetime.
Every other company drops the price a number of times as their product ages. The only way to avoid getting stung is to only get a Mac after a refresh. At least then your getting the latest hardware for your cash.

For example, only a nutter would buy a current Mac Pro desktop now as a refresh is just around the corner. The Mac Pro's haven't been refreshed since this time last year. So you would be paying crazy money for year old technology. The new model will launch at the current price or lower if Apple have any recession awareness at all:)

Windows 7 is already very very stable, could be one of the best OS released in a very long time going by the beta builds.

Donald-Duck

hideous ape wrote: »

In fairness though Apple are unique so what works for the majority of the IT world such as pricing does not apply to Apple. They have to ensure both hardware and software functions as a solid unit. This is not a cheap business to run or manage. Most other companies are either just software or just hardware. If Microsoft started building systems and locked down Windows 7 just to Microsoft boxes you would see their prices similar to Apples.

As Apple are unique they can charge what they like and free-thinking consumers can make their own mind up. I'm an old Commodore Amiga user so can appreciate the work that Apple does.

Actually, that would make it significantly easier for Apple, not harder. It eliminates a huge amount of the standard driver issues that would be on a Windows OS. Only having a few different pieces of hardware means theres a lot less work to be done.

To add 1 stick of 512mb RAM to a mac mini costs 70 euro. Its PC5300, you can buy it for about a tenner in the shops. That is just clear robbery.

yoyo

Hogzy wrote: »

great thread OP;)

Im half getting more suckered into the whole mac thing, was tempted to go up north in the coming weeks to buy the new macbook! Im buying it as a second computer, already have a cracking desktop that i use for gaming however due to work/college im in desperate need for a laptop!

Id simply use the mac for Music,web surfing,Photo editing and primarily word processing! However forking out that much money for a laptop that simply doesnt crash i dont think is worth it...

If you like the look of OSX then download this!

VistaOSX

Why do all those windows theme conversion packs look horrible . If you really want a OSX like interface, Ubuntu and this guide will make Ubuntu look identical in most ways to OSX, :pac::pac:

Nick

Edit: Also HERE is a screenshot of my converted Ubuntu :pac:

Fajitas!

OSx will generally just work where XP/Vista slows down/crashes/various other problem, I find.

I use both on a regular basis, started off much prefering Windows, but I've changed over in the past few months, and I had to send my HP laptop off for repair. The HP would be pretty much spec'd out for the pavilion range. By the time I'd gotten it back, I'd more than gotten used to my MBP... The Mac outruns the HP on so so many levels.

hideous ape

My concerns about Windows 7 are solely based on music production...Vista was a complete disaster for me in music production terms. Vista has improved with SP1 but its too little to late for me. I'll soldier on with XP for now. I've no doubt Windows 7 will be much better than Vista and will be fine for most peoples everyday use, gaming, etc. I'll have a Mac Pro by the time Windows 7 appears so it won't affect me. I'll give it a look under Bootcamp then.

Donald-Duck wrote: »

Actually, that would make it significantly easier for Apple, not harder. It eliminates a huge amount of the standard driver issues that would be on a Windows OS. Only having a few different pieces of hardware means theres a lot less work to be done.

But how do you think those standard driver and hardware issues are removed, it doesn't just happen by itself. The workload is not shared between various vendors. I'm a software tester in Apple and it takes an insane amount of testing and engineering to ensure that all the hardware and software works as efficiently as it does in MacOSX. You have to always remember Apples goal is to sell you a fully functioning MacOSX machine out of the box that you *WON'T UPGRADE*. The plan is to get you to keep buying a new model rather than upgrading your current one.

Donald-Duck wrote: »

To add 1 stick of 512mb RAM to a mac mini costs 70 euro. Its PC5300, you can buy it for about a tenner in the shops. That is just clear robbery.

Ya that is a total ripoff so thats why you just buy your Mac with its lowest amount of RAM and then buy the RAM yourself directly from Crucial or anyone of the third parties online. Mucho Casho Savo:)

I would never recommend a Mac if gaming was your highest priority though!

FruitLover

Donald-Duck wrote: »

To add 1 stick of 512mb RAM to a mac mini costs 70 euro. Its PC5300, you can buy it for about a tenner in the shops. That is just clear robbery.

Ah, but you don't get the smug satisfaction that comes with owning genuine Apple parts!

(LOL at Apple zombies)

Donald-Duck

hideous ape wrote: »

But how do you think those standard driver and hardware issues are removed, it doesn't just happen by itself. The workload is not shared between various vendors. I'm a software tester in Apple and it takes an insane amount of testing and engineering to ensure that all the hardware and software works as efficiently as it does in MacOSX. You have to always remember Apples goal is to sell you a fully functioning MacOSX machine out of the box that you *WON'T UPGRADE*. The plan is to get you to keep buying a new model rather than upgrading your current one.

So testing something with about 10 different components is harder than making sure something works well on thousands of different components?

The issue is that apple know that some people will religiously pay those prices, so they put them that high.

Also, adding your own ram in voids your warranty.

hideous ape

Do you honestly think that Microsoft tests every single PC component in the world?

They don't...they use a cut down vendor list and target the most popular companies/components. All other testing is left to the vendors themselves...it's on their heads to ensure their motherboard, GFX card, etc meets MS requirements. Thats why when you run into problems with a specific component MS goes "not our problem, go ask the vendor about drivers or whatever the issue is". Apple is actually a relatively small company compared to MS...I think MS has double the number of employees or something like that.

Adding RAM does not void your warranty...damage caused while adding RAM is not covered by warranty but simply adding RAM yourself does not in itself void the warranty. If you were worried, just remove the RAM if you have to send it in for repair:)

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8459105

Overheal

mike65 wrote: »

Macs are not that popular are they? 3.5% is pretty dismal and less than in 1999 when they were just over 4%.

Thats pretty abysmal. and I remember 1999 - all the schools had were those brand new macs that were one-piece desktops.

I never was a huge fan. The single click always drove me insane: I have 5 fingers, why treat me like an amputee? I also really dislike not being able to customize my PC.

hideous ape

Not sure what figures you guys are looking at cause current Apple marketshare is around 10%:

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8

That may still seem really low compared to Microsofts 90% marketshare but bare in mind that 10% means hardware sold...MS only makes cash off the OS.

You can plug a two button mouse into a Mac and it works the same as a PC...old school Macheads spinning in their graves...NO RIGHTCLICK:)
Customization is something that is sorely lacking on Macs but that is something you just have to accept. I've always built PC's but now I will give MacOSX a chance.

I bought my first mac last march. I don't see myself using windows again any time soon. My macbook pro runs faster and smoother than any windows machine I've ever owned and it hasn't crashed yet. I think the extra cost was worth it for the reliability. Thats just my two cents though.

ethernet

Can only hope this thread doesn't end in tears like many that went before it

Use Windows and Linux often. Have a Mac. Like things about each. Really admire the approach to installing applications on the Mac as opposed to the other platforms in the use of a single package which can be easily removed when files aren't scattered all over the hard drive.

Also an IT student so plenty of development to do. The open source IDEs are available on OS X. Xcode is a very decent multi-lingual IDE as well. The Unix-likeness makes things easier under the hood, even for practical things like backup (rsync), SSH access out-of-the-box and the like.

As stated, RAM from Apple is overpriced. Even posters in the Mac forum will tell you to buy RAM separately (have done the same).

Each to their own.

mike65

hideous ape wrote: »

Not sure what figures you guys are looking at cause current Apple marketshare is around 10%:

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8

Heres the figure I saw, have to be careful not to confuse US market with global share.

http://www.systemshootouts.org/images/mac_sales_market_share_lg.gif

ntlbell

This thread doesn't really make much sense anymore since mac's are now pc's

Mongey

ntlbell wrote: »

This thread doesn't really make much sense anymore since mac's are now pc's

Care to explain ?

Creamy Goodness

Mongey wrote: »

Care to explain ?

mac computers used to use ppc processors now they use intel processors.

ntlbell is saying that everything with an intel chip is a pc basically.

OP when you mention Mac, what do you mean? do you mean just the machine or do you mean the OS, or do you mean the whole package machine + OS. there needs to be a distinguished line drawn imo.

An Fear Aniar

I bought into the whole Linux thing thanks to Ubuntu - goodbye Windows. But I didn't have to pay anything.:)

I wouldn't buy a Mac, my usage of it wouldn't really justify the price. For general browsing and getting banned from After Hours Ubuntu does the job just fine - and I get all the Unixy stability and security that macs have.

.

apoch632

Recent enough switcher. September. Can't see myself going back.
There are a couple of things that won me over. The design of the iMac itself. I have one chord going into the whole thing. The power chord. Also yes I am paying more for a nicer looker computer but why shouldn't computers be nice looking. Dell have been trying it recently. But when it comes to things like style you get it or you don't. Dell don't, HP don't IBM/Lenovro don't. Apple do

OSX is fantastic. Having a search function that works that well. I have not used anything that comes close on windows or linux (ubuntu/debian/fedora/suse) Will happily take suggestions though for either. A consistent GUI through all applications. If you use VLC or Quicktime they will use the same icons for things like play, pause etc, as will iTunes. Personally I find Microsoft Office's new ribbon system works better on OSX than Windows. Xcode is probably the best IDE I've used. Also having the unix back end is a big thing for me.

ntlbell

Mongey wrote: »

Care to explain ?

One of the attractions of a Mac was the architecture it was running on with an OS that was very tightly integrated into that architecture.

Since they moved to intel hardware your now just running OSX on intel xx architecture so all your "buying into" is a an OS not an architecture.

So now the only real reason to "buy into" it Mac is for the OS which can get the same stability from other OS's at little or no cost.

so you're basically paying over the odds for a "look"

shellyboo

I buy into the whole Mac thing for one simple reason - I sit down at a PC, within less than ten minutes I want to hurl it out of the nearest Window (no pun intended :P). My Mac makes me happy. I am a girl, I like pretty things, and I am prepared to pay over the odds for a lovely shiny pretty laptop which I can use without stress or aggravation.

Re the OP's comment about not being able to use OSX instinctively... well, I find it a feature with Apple products that it does take some 'practice' before usage becomes natural - about as long as it takes for the 'ooh, shiny' novelty to wear off. I won't be going back to PCs.

r3nu4l

Deleted User wrote: »

I bought my first mac last march. I don't see myself using windows again any time soon. My macbook pro runs faster and smoother than any windows machine I've ever owned and it hasn't crashed yet. I think the extra cost was worth it for the reliability. Thats just my two cents though.

I bought a MacBook Pro last February and have been extremely pleased with both the machine and the MacOS X. I've always loved tinkering with PC's and still do but to be honest, for sheer simplicity, Mac OS X is hard to beat. I haven't had a single problem connecting my router, bluetooth devices, installing programs etc. With my PC there was always some sort of problem. Either the drivers that came with the software were out of date and couldn't be used because I had upgraded my Windows service pack or a DLL file was missing or Windows detected a device but could not find the driver etc.

I got used to the Mac OS X very quickly and while there are elements I dislike, overall, I feel it's much, much better than the Windows OS and there is no doubting that Macs still look a lot better than PC's. The sooner PC manufacturers start experimenting properly with designs the better imo.

ntlbell

shellyboo wrote: »

I buy into the whole Mac thing for one simple reason - I sit down at a PC, within less than ten minutes I want to hurl it out of the nearest Window (no pun intended :P). My Mac makes me happy. I am a girl, I like pretty things, and I am prepared to pay over the odds for a lovely shiny pretty laptop which I can use without stress or aggravation.

Re the OP's comment about not being able to use OSX instinctively... well, I find it a feature with Apple products that it does take some 'practice' before usage becomes natural - about as long as it takes for the 'ooh, shiny' novelty to wear off. I won't be going back to PCs.

That's not the pc's problem, it's a windows problem.

ntlbell

r3nu4l wrote: »

I got used to the Mac OS X very quickly and while there are elements I dislike, overall, I feel it's much, much better than the Windows OS and there is no doubting that Macs still look a lot better than PC's. The sooner PC manufacturers start experimenting properly with designs the better imo.

Sony Vaio?

The FW series for example are usually a lot more powerful, look as good if not better and are a lot cheaper..

r3nu4l

ntlbell wrote: »

Sony Vaio?

The FW series for example are usually a lot more powerful, look as good if not better and are a lot cheaper..

Yeah it's subjective but Sony Vaio doesn't do it for me at all. Also, it's still a Windows machine unless you want to go about installing Linux on it. I'm pretty much converted to Mac now, I still like some aspects of Windows and PC tinkering but if I want something that does what it's supposed to do when I ask it to then I know the Mac will do it without too much fuss, whereas with the PC, I could end up scouring the web for drivers, uninstalling some piece of software because a new piece of software isn't compatible with it...it goes on and on

311

Microsoft user of nearly twenty years here ,never have any crashes on machines I use myself (touchwood)

Don't really understand what problems people say they have on windows machines. Is there the same amount of diagnostic information on the internet for apple products ,that there is for windows ones ?

ntlbell

r3nu4l wrote: »

Yeah it's subjective but Sony Vaio doesn't do it for me at all. Also, it's still a Windows machine unless you want to go about installing Linux on it. I'm pretty much converted to Mac now, I still like some aspects of Windows and PC tinkering but if I want something that does what it's supposed to do when I ask it to then I know the Mac will do it without too much fuss, whereas with the PC, I could end up scouring the web for drivers, uninstalling some piece of software because a new piece of software isn't compatible with it...it goes on and on

I was using the Vaio more of an example of good design there really is very little between a MBP and the FW series from a design point of view very similar one you can just get a lot more bang for your buck.

You can get the same power + blu ray + more ram + more storage for the price of an old macbook

No one will force you to run windows eithier..

ntlbell

311 wrote: »

Microsoft user of nearly twenty years here ,never have any crashes on machines I use myself (touchwood)

Don't really understand what problems people say they have on windows machines. Is there the same amount of diagnostic information on the internet for apple products ,that there is for windows ones ?

The majority of the problems are not the OS the problems are generally the users.

Mac's prevent you for the most part from doing anything stupid as they remove nearly all independent thinking for a UI it's not always a bad thing

Stupid users are good users n all that

r3nu4l

ntlbell wrote: »

No one will force you to run windows eithier..

My point is that the majority of people out there are incapable of uninstalling windows and installing another OS. So for them that's a problem if they don't like Windows. Their only alternative is either a Mac or a company like Dell that will install a Linux OS for you on the machine before you get it.

/I'm assuming Dell still do this?

I totally agree that Macs are way overpriced for what you get but I bought mine in the US at a time when the British Pound was exchanging at 2 for 1 So my Mac Book Pro only cost me about £700, still expensive but not half as expensive as it could have been.

tba

I have a big problem with Macs, its the life cycle vs. cost vs. style issue.

I try as best I can to buy products that last, solid leather shoes, wollen trousers, decent refillable pens, etc.. These things tend to cost more, a lot more, but the fact is they are worth it. They last longer (if not forever) and frequently they work much better, eg I have a great drawing compass that my father gave me that still works perfect, even though it is over forty years old, It cost a lot when he bought it but it is still in great condition.

As an example of my point, you would not buy a cheaply built house in an inadequate area that looked ****, it would be a long term investment, and you should not be cheap about it.

Now certain things need to be replaced quite often, computers fall into this category. (a lot of electronics do actually) and as such I think of them as "useful but disposable ****".

Why would anybody spend so much money on something that is destined to be replaced, regardless of how good it looks or functions.

ntlbell

tba wrote: »

Why would anybody spend so much money on something that is destined to be replaced, regardless of how good it looks or functions.

the same reason spend 140e on a pair of runners that generally dont last as long as pair in aldi for a tenner...

Sad Professor

I've been a Mac user for about 13 years.

As pointed out earlier it's important to clarify what one means by "PC" or "Mac." The "Mac" is not a piece of hardware nor is it an operating system but rather a single integrated experience. Macs are not about choice and never have been. At every possible opportunity Steve Jobs has attempted to take choice away from his users. We moan about this endlessly but this lack of choice is why the Mac works so well.

In contrast, in the Windows PC world you've got loads of choice. Choice, choice, choice, choice. Many of these choices are only compatible with certain other choices which aren't with others and so on. There's so much of this that for the new or novice computer user, using a PC can be a nightmare. Even for experienced users, there's always something unexpected that can pop up with the result that you end up wasting away hours staring at the screen trying to fix it.

Now many people love computers and would find the above a great challenge. And even if there wasn't something wrong they'd still find something to play or tinker with.

I'm not one of those people. If you are, then the Mac is not for you.

To me a computer is a tool. I want it to do something. I have very little personal interest in how it works, only that it does work. I think a lot of people are like this. They want to browse the web, send email, upload photos, listen to music, download movies, etc. They don't want to waste hours of their life trying to make some badly programmed, badly designed piece of sh*t work properly.

Macs have problems too. But Apple has such tight control of them that most of these problems are quickly solvable. Either by calling up Apple and saying, "Hey my computer is f**ked" or going on the Mac forum here, where even somebody with a couple of years experience on the Mac could probably point you in the right direction. Macs are just less stress.

Are they overpriced? Many Apple products certainly are but I think Macbooks and iMacs are very good value for what you get. Macs obviously aren't for everyone but I still think there's a lot of people out there in PC/Windows land who don't know what they're missing.

311

How far would computers have developed if all businesses operated like Apple ?

Would we even have the Duo-core/Quad Core processors ,that apple themselves use today ?

madmik

if you have even a basic understanding of computers using a pc is very simple

I use windows xp the last 4 years and problems are few and far between although i use a modern laptop to run it

when i do get them a quick google usually fixes it

if it doesnt there are hundreds of otther programs to use that do the same thing

im well happy with the pc and wont be changing

Cabaal

I didn't "buy the mac" thing for years, then in May 2007 I bought myself a MacBook and to be honest I'm impressed. OSX is just nicer to use then Vista or XP/2000, faster, less clunky.

The boot time off my MacBook has remained the same since the day I bought it, not the same when compared to my Windows machine, in addition its the little things like TimeMachine that just work really really well.

I've been so happy with my MacBook that when I need to replace my desktop I'll be buying an iMac

For me its certainly not about lack of tech savy, hell any PC's I've ever bought I've built and installed from scratch.

Cabaal

311 wrote: »

How far would computers have developed if all businesses operated like Apple ?

Would we even have the Duo-core/Quad Core processors ,that apple themselves use today ?

Yes, you have to remember Apple also kept pushing the speed barrier years back before it switched to Intel chips

311

Cabaal wrote: »

Yes, you have to remember Apple also kept pushing the speed barrier years back before it switched to Intel chips

But that was because of the competition ,if all companies supplied computers trouble free and no input ,it would be a different story.

At least with windows/Pc's ,there is healthy competition from hardware manufacturers.

Donald-Duck

311 wrote: »

But that was because of the competition ,if all companies supplied computers trouble free and no input ,it would be a different story.

At least with windows/Pc's ,there is healthy competition from hardware manufacturers.

At the rate things are going I wouldn't be suprised to see them release OSX for PCs. Its already been hacked to work pretty well on PCs with user made drivers.

ethernet

Donald-Duck wrote: »

At the rate things are going I wouldn't be suprised to see them release OSX for PCs. Its already been hacked to work pretty well on PCs with user made drivers.

Wouldn't think so, at least not in the immediate future. You may have heard about the Psystar case. Apple wasn't too fond of them selling computers with OS X Leopard installed.

Additionally, selling an Apple computer with Apple's own OS is better for turnover. Opening up OS X to more than standard Mac hardware (and devices) would be a right headache in terms of driver availability.