Cat6 instead of Eircoms wiring to improve SNR and SPEED?

johnplayerblue

Evening all
After reading Solair's thread "The importance of internal wiring! i tried a couple of things from the router/master socket with the blue pair from a length of cat6 and got a gain of about 2/3dbs which allowed me to resync via dmt at a steady 6megs,

i now have a snr of about 5.5/6.5 which before playing about with i was geting 4.5megs at the same snr before my netgear would auto resync so there has bee a small improvement.

Thing is though at one stage i had 7.4megs with a snr of 8.5 9.5 which held steady for quiet a while before i moved things about to try something else and this got me thinking about perhaps using some cat6 from master socket back to the junction box at point of entry just 40ft away outside my window.

So. I have a run of about 20ft from master socket to junction box in the attic and then another 20ft to external junction box where the cable run from pole meets internal wiring,

So here is my question, could i for example bypass eircoms wiring and run some cat6 from master socket straight to External point of entry junction box and thus bypassing junction box in attic?

So thats a straight run from master socket to POE socket.

Btw what porpose does the junction box in the attic serve?

I have to admit i am rather bored and just looking for something to play with so does any of the above make any sense or should i just find something else to play with :rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

johnplayerblue wrote: »

Evening all
After reading Solair's thread "The importance of internal wiring! i tried a couple of things from the router/master socket with the blue pair from a length of cat6 and got a gain of about 2/3dbs which allowed me to resync via dmt at a steady 6megs,

Boardsies taking responsibility for their internal wiring warms my heart it does

So. I have a run of about 20ft from master socket to junction box in the attic and then another 20ft to external junction box where the cable run from pole meets internal wiring,

It would be best to run to the external junction box in one hop . Put an eircom master socket at the end of it .

So here is my question, could i for example bypass eircoms wiring and run some cat6 from master socket straight to External point of entry junction box and thus bypassing junction box in attic?

You can , however eircom are only responsible for the service to the ext junction from then on in fairness. on the + side Cat6 is better ( more twists less interference) than the wiring eircom uses so that 40 foot run will be better quality cable .

Btw what porpose does the junction box in the attic serve?

Bet the house is a 20+ years old bungalow , they then had junction outside , junction in attic and the socket off that latter . Nowadays they dispense with the inside junction .

johnplayerblue

How is it you always say the things i like to hear Bob

I wont be popular with the COD 5 WAW clan tomorrow but what the hell if i get 5 or 6 more dbs out of it. Sound.

"Bet the house is a 20+ years old bungalow" Talk about nail on the head....

MunsterCycling

SB has cameras everywhere that's how he was spot on !

Sponge Bob

Seeing as half the housing stock of of 'that' age it is probably something that people should know

The difference between CAT6 and ordinary phone wire ( 2 pair from electrical wholesaler) is that CAT6 is less susceptible to interference.

Thanks to another fugggin clot of a Green Minister we shall have to retire our normal lightbulbs from now on for ones that will cause more interference.

The prevalence of these in our houses may well require rewires just like the one JPB did although there are 4 pairs in a CAT6 and the blue pair is only used by convention for phone, any pair will do

Funny how I can 'smell' a 20 year old + bungalow across the h-inteRRnit all the same

Out of interest I did a CFL test ( I placed a CFL between the modem and the wall socket) 2db it cost me . This is only a 3w cfl giving a 20 watt bulb experience.

UNLIT CFL

noise margin downstream: 25 db
output power upstream: 19 db
attenuation downstream: 33 db
carrier load: number of bits per symbol(tone)
tone 0- 31: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 32- 63: 00 00 00 00 00 02 22 33 44 55 66 77 78 78 88 88
tone 64- 95: 09 99 89 99 98 89 88 88 88 88 88 88 88 88 88 88
tone 96-127: 78 87 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 66 66 66 66 65 55 55
tone 128-159: 55 54 44 44 44 34 33 33 33 33 32 20 02 23 33 33
tone 160-191: 32 33 33 33 33 33 32 32 33 32 23 33 33 23 23 33
tone 192-223: 33 33 33 23 23 33 33 33 33 20 23 32 33 32 33 32
tone 224-255: 23 22 22 22 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 256-287: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 288-319: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 320-351: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 352-383: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 384-415: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 416-447: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 448-479: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 480-511: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

LIT CFL

noise margin downstream: 24 db
output power upstream: 19 db
attenuation downstream: 35 db
carrier load: number of bits per symbol(tone)
tone 0- 31: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 32- 63: 00 00 00 00 00 02 22 33 44 55 66 77 78 78 88 88
tone 64- 95: 09 99 89 99 98 89 88 88 88 88 88 88 88 88 88 88
tone 96-127: 78 87 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 66 66 66 66 65 55 55
tone 128-159: 55 54 44 44 44 34 33 33 33 33 32 20 02 23 33 33
tone 160-191: 32 33 33 33 33 33 32 32 33 32 23 33 33 23 23 33
tone 192-223: 33 33 33 23 23 33 33 33 33 20 23 32 33 32 33 32
tone 224-255: 23 22 22 22 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 256-287: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 288-319: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 320-351: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 352-383: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 384-415: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 416-447: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 448-479: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 480-511: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00


Upstream ( no difference)

UNLIT CFL

noise margin upstream: 17 db
output power downstream: 2 db
attenuation upstream: 21 db
carrier load: number of bits per symbol(tone)
tone 0- 31: 00 00 00 02 34 45 56 66 67 77 66 66 55 55 44 00
tone 32- 63: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 64- 95: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 96-127: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 128-159: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 160-191: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 192-223: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 224-255: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 256-287: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 288-319: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 320-351: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 352-383: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 384-415: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 416-447: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 448-479: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 480-511: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00


LIT CFL

noise margin upstream: 17 db
output power downstream: 2 db
attenuation upstream: 21 db
carrier load: number of bits per symbol(tone)
tone 0- 31: 00 00 00 02 34 45 56 66 67 77 66 66 55 55 44 00
tone 32- 63: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 64- 95: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 96-127: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 128-159: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 160-191: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 192-223: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 224-255: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 256-287: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 288-319: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 320-351: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 352-383: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 384-415: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 416-447: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 448-479: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 480-511: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

johnplayerblue

Well god dam, just used an old AM hand held radio set at 612Khz(Kitz) and BY FAR the most noise i picked up was from the two cfl's within 10ft of modem.

LCD's, plasma, decoder, consoles, stereo etc came no where near the level of interference as that given of from cfl's. Did not expect that, steady 1.8db increase by moving router and lamps apart....

Sponge Bob

My advice is to route the CAT6 as far away as possible from CFL or any High Intensity Discharge 'yard lamps' ...ie street lights in the yard. These devices 'broadcast' interference .

I also advise that you consider doubling up the pairs to the junction box.

Twist the ends of the 2 blue wires together and the ends of the two orange wires together to make a double thickness pair and see if that improves matters any over using single pairs as you did before .

Also remember that sharp corners and CAT6 is a bad idea, make the curves nice and gentle , no sharp 90 degree horsing around corners . NO KINKS !

Note why here

http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=444799

"Only thing I'll add, if/when you need to cross electrical cables with network cables, do so at right angles (90 degrees) - it's long parallel runs that does the damage in terms of cross talk and interference. Also, no sharp corners or kinks in the cabling - try and do gentle bends with a large radius (a few inches).

All the advice above is best practice, but isn't always possible in practice. I recently wired up an outdoors office and ran 50m of unshielded phone wire together with Cat5e without any problems. I also had a 25m parallel underground run of data and power cables that were separated by about 8 inches - I'm only on 100mbit but again I've not observed any issues.

It's hard to find any quantitative data. I do remember reading one study of a lab running test 100m lengths of unshielded Cat5e next to power in plastic trunking and studying packet loss etc. They concluded that a few inches is probably sufficient in most cases although obviously that may change if going to 1000mbit.

One thing you should definitely try to avoid is proximity to anything with a starter motor like fluorescent lighting, fridge/freezers or generators etc and their wiring - I would stay as far away as possible from these, at least 2 ft where possible."

byte

Most interesting regarding the CFL bulbs.

While on the subject of replacing phonecable, is it true that Eircom only cover issues between exchange and the little brown junction box just inside the house? As when Eircom were out to fix the crackling noise at my mum's house, they said it was OK as far as the brown junction, and the rest of the cable from there to teh Eircom master socket wasn't his concern, unless she wanted to pay extra.

So, the crackling still exists and it's now down to me to replace the internal wiring (and perhaps the eircom socket, which was changed before for exact same issue, which at the time, Eircom fixed without any arsing about).

Strange, considering it's Eircom's master socket, and their wiring. The wire from the brown junction to the master is quite thin 4core cable running approx 12-15m. Would Cat6 be a significant advantage over the likes of Cat5e as a replacement?

Sponge Bob

No

eircoms network terminates at the eircom master socket INSIDE the house which is why I told JPB to stick an eircom master socket at the end of his run ! Older wiring ( pre about 1990 but I may be wrong ) did not come with a master socket so technically they are correct in its absence .

If indeed the line is perfect to that junction then it would be your problem Byte .

Confusion arises when an extension is T'd off that last junction box meaning the line is split before the master socket or else , in effect , that the inside wiring starts OUTSIDE the master socket . In that case eircom are absolutely correct unless it was they themselves who did it to install phonewatch for example .

If , however , the internal wiring starts correctly from the base of the master socket then eircom are wrong .

byte

Basically, line comes inside the house, goes into the brown junction box, thin white 4 core goes from there straight to what I classify as an Eircom master socket (a big socket with Eircom logo on it, previously there was a socket with TE logo but Eircom replaced this after ligthning once). It's the sole socket in the house, wired by Eircom technicians.

Sponge Bob

Their responsibility in its entirety Byte .

byte

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Their responsibility in its entirety Byte .

Thanks SB.

Just the clarification I needed.