Pro Tools 8 or Logic?

musicmatty

Thinking of upgrading my rather tired gear.

Anybody got any thoughts regarding whether I should go for Pro Tools 8 or Logic? Currently using an ancient Pro Tools 5.1 system, which I know how to use backwards, but I was attracted to Logic for the effects and soft synths. And now Pro Tools 8 has come along...confused.

dav nagle

musicmatty wrote: »

Thinking of upgrading my rather tired gear.

Anybody got any thoughts regarding whether I should go for Pro Tools 8 or Logic? Currently using an ancient Pro Tools 5.1 system, which I know how to use backwards, but I was attracted to Logic for the effects and soft synths. And now Pro Tools 8 has come along...confused.

5.1? Sounds like it's time for a new coat of paint. You are obviously a mac user yeah? Lets look at pro and cons:

Logic has no boundaries - Pro tools has loads of boundaries
Track count and processing power being the main two. Pro tools 8 is €140 where logic is €499 or there about. Logic will only run on Mac where Pro tools runs on both PC and MAC. Editing audio in Pro tools is as fast as a cat as you know where Logic is slightly slower but not limited by any means. How important is workflow? Logic uses Native AU instruments Pro tools uses RTAS. AU are not as cpu hungry as RTAS. RTAS is in many ways dated in terms of how much CPU it sucks from your computer. To run pro tools you can only use pro tools hardware so your options are limited somewhat. Pro tools is industry standard where Logic is not. The new pro tools will take a while before it is bug fixed and Digidesign admit that they have some work to do in catching up with the native AU plug-in format (not good enough in my opinion) Pro tools can do an excellent job and I love it but I have been learning Logic more and more recently and I can still use the plugins I have bought in Logic. Logic can bounce offline where in pro tools you have to wait the duration of the song. The simple answer is if you are in audio production either tool can and will do a great job but if you want to use midi it's a no brainer with Logic. The synths and samples on 7 DVD'S are outstanding so you get a much greater BANG for your buck with Logic. A Mac pro quad is as powerful as a pro tools HD 1 rig so bear that in mind. I use both for different stuff. I record songwriters on pro tools and program midi on logic. I am starting to get into Logics audio editing and it is pretty damn cool. You can do multiple fades and crossfades in one big sweep. The routing on both systems is very good and easy enough to understand. Pro tools HD has zero latency and can sound amazing but you will need a huge amount of cash.

PaulBrewer

dav nagle wrote: »

Logic has no boundaries - Pro tools has loads of boundaries

Jeez????????

teamdresch

Try both and make your own mind up!
At least with moving to pt8 the learning curve will be pretty manageable.

dav nagle

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Jeez????????

Well Pro tools Le has a limited track count.
Pro tools also sucks CPU power?
They are both boundaries and in fact loads of boundaries because these two areas are THE MOST important areas for any complete DAW.
'Jeez' yourself I was just trying to point some stuff out ya dawg.

madtheory

If you know PT already, then stick with it. Featurewise there's not a whole lot between them, and as has been said, you avoid a massive, time consuming learning curve.

But there's nothing to stop you using both, they're not expensive like.

seannash

madtheory wrote: »

If you know PT already, then stick with it. Featurewise there's not a whole lot between them, and as has been said, you avoid a massive, time consuming learning curve.

But there's nothing to stop you using both, they're not expensive like.

its really not a huge learning curve if you have experience with any other daw.there are some aspect that take a while to get a hang of but its pretty user friendly to be honest.

HiKite

Just to point you to a PT Session with Digi:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58441238#post58441238

Cheers..

madtheory

seannash wrote: »

its really not a huge learning curve

That's debatable. It is certainly time consuming. But as I said, there's nothing to stop him using both!

dav nagle

madtheory wrote: »

That's debatable. It is certainly time consuming. But as I said, there's nothing to stop him using both!

Exactly there is nothing but fun to be had in having and learning the 2

af_thefragile

Logic is brilliant!!
I bought it and i don't regret it at all! Its really versatile and has loads of plugins, synths and a drum machine to play with.

I think Pro Tools is great for working with audio recordings but its horrible when it comes to working with MIDI on it. The new 'score' feature on Logic is pretty cool if you like to compose your music the old fashioned way by printing notes on a staff.

And i think Logic Pro (or even Logic studio) is better then Pro Tools LE. Where Pro Tools is good at is if you decide to go for the 003 system or have the money to set up a Pro Tools HD system.

ICN

dav nagle wrote: »

... as fast as a cat...

Meaoooow!! :pac:

DamagedTrax

just moved over from m-powered to LE (with an 002) today. PT8 is running smooth as butter it has to be said - was never a fan of it before.. just used it for college or if anyone gave me a PT session but its def my goto now for mixing.

ill still compose on cubase though. its just how i like to work.

PaulBrewer

madtheory wrote: »

If you know PT already, then stick with it. Featurewise there's not a whole lot between them, and as has been said, you avoid a massive, time consuming learning curve.

But there's nothing to stop you using both, they're not expensive like.

Good Points.

studiorat

Did you win the lotto or something Mad Theory? I'd call logic expensive. At nearly €500 you'd really want to be getting use out of it.

I just installed PT 8 on to a computer today and having a quick look around I think it looks really great. Lots of new plug-ins and instruments and the screens look really good too.

It's got some MIDI upgrades and audio warping too. Though for the life of me I could never figure out what people mean by Pro Tools being bad at midi. There's nothing you can do on Logic or Cubase with midi that you can't do on 'tools.

empirix

pro tools all the waay!!!!!!!!

dav nagle

empirix wrote: »

pro tools all the waay!!!!!!!!

I love pro tools myself. I know in my original post to the OP I sounded bias towards Logic but I truly love Pro tools, it is my favorite DAW environment. I have 2 kids, Pro tools my son is 6 and Logic, my daughter is 1.

PaulBrewer

dav nagle wrote: »

I love pro tools myself. I know in my original post to the OP I sounded bias towards Logic but I truly love Pro tools, it is my favorite DAW environment. I have 2 kids, Pro tools my son is 6 and Logic, my daughter is 1.

.... and their Da's an awful Daw !;)

dav nagle

True that :rolleyes:

musicmatty

Cheers all.

I guess what it will boil down to for me is how many soft synths you get with the new Pro Tools compared to what comes with Logic.

Anyone know which has got more soft synths, drum machines etc.?

dav nagle

musicmatty wrote: »

Cheers all.

I guess what it will boil down to for me is how many soft synths you get with the new Pro Tools compared to what comes with Logic.

Anyone know which has got more soft synths, drum machines etc.?

Hands down Logic wins that battle

Jimbo808

IMHO it's really horses for courses with any DAW or sequencer.
However, I'm not one to let a post go by without giving my opinion
on such matters.

If you are primarily multi-tracking editing and mixing in a traditional format
(Live recordings, bands, acoustic instruments etc) then Pro Tools is for you.
Pro Tools editing capabilities are SO fast (I've worked in the Pro Audio Images industry which meant alot of voice over work and radio ads, each of which needed a turn around time of 30 minutes) that it beats all competitors hands down. Also it's tracking functions are simple, reliable and obvious. In this category it is the outright leader.

HOWEVER...

If your needs are production based. Be it writing, full song production, track building and creation then Logic 8 is your man. The sheer size of resources practically given away with Logic is mind numbing. From soft synths to samples and samplers, drum machines, organ plugins and physical modelling synths ( all of which are professional grade I might add) you are left with practically nothing. I currently use Logic for all my production needs with EZdrummer and Trilogy my only thrid party plugs (oh and gateboy, savage little app!) Logic is as intuitive as it is creative and was an easy transition for me from Cubase when it came to advanced MIDI programming.

The selling point for me at the end of it if I had to chose one would be the restrictions DIGIdesign have on hardware. You cannot use third party hardware with Pro Tools and therefore are limited to their converters. Something I wouldn't be thrilled about.

But as always, try them out and see for yourself. Get what works for YOU, not what works for everyone else.

J*808

teamdresch

Jimbo808 wrote: »

You cannot use third party hardware with Pro Tools and therefore are limited to their converters. Something I wouldn't be thrilled about.

A minor point, but not as true as it used to be.
I'm using an Maudio Lightbridge and non-digidesign converters.

Jimbo808

A fair point and I expected a reply as soon as I hit post! :P

Would you indulge me and put up a small signal flow diagram of your
A/D - D/A setup?

Cheers!

J*808

teamdresch

Well, the lighbridge has ADAT ins and outs.
I hook them up to the corresponding ins and outs on my converter.

Jimbo808

Nice one. A handy solution.

Cheers dude

J*808

PaulBrewer

I was at the Digidesign Pro Tools 8 LE thing in X- music today - (unlike ANY of yez bar Jon!)

There are some pretty significant improvements ok -

I was most impressed with the interface and the ergonomic thought that went into it. It looks like a proper studio tool rather than a Windows Hasbeen.

The free software instruments seemed good though I felt I was listening to the 003s D2As rather than them, so I reserve judgement.
The piano was the least impressive on first listen.

48 tracks? Not too shabby - 96k with 003? Good buzz ...

The 'Comping' thingy seemed like an improvement but also seemed unfinished from a 'screen feedback' point of view - that is I can see how one could be getting confused using it.

Another big plus for me was the improved Install simplicity, though I haven't seen it in action from what I hear a lot of the soul destroying mind numbingness has been removed.

Even a very UnPower User I could see big improvements.

madtheory

dav nagle wrote: »

Hands down Logic wins that battle

Yes, it has a lot of them, but some of them are quite dated I think. Quality not quantity? X Pand in Pro Tools is an incredibly good tool for composing IMO. It does everything.

So I'd still say use both

dav nagle

madtheory wrote: »

Yes, it has a lot of them, but some of them are quite dated I think. Quality not quantity? X Pand in Pro Tools is an incredibly good tool for composing IMO. It does everything.

So I'd still say use both

The OP said he wants to use his DAW for soft synths so clearly Logic wins the battle. I use Pro tools 8 and it's class for AUDIO EDITING etc....


Had the OP said he wants a DAW for audio I would have said Pro tools wins the battle, I presume the OP isn't going to buy both at this stage so he needs advice on the matter and he needs to make a clear and confident decision. The synths that come with Logic are so creative and sound really good.

Jimbo808

Sometimes I kind of get the feeling that because it's new and has Digidesign branded on it people lose the run of themselves! (Especially Sound on Sound)

In reality, I think Pro Tools 8 is a catch up release, nothing NEW.

Improved installation: Logic already has it.

Comping: Logic has it and is implemented far better.

Better interface: It looks like the b*stard child of Logic and Cubase.

VI's: Logic contains a multiple of better quality plug ins.

Price: Ridiculous

Better MIDI implentation: I really felt they missed the ball here. It seemed unfinished and like they were jamming all the features from other DAWs into their own and getting it wrong, rather than working within their own design.

Track Count: This should never be a selling point. It's limited...still. We should not feel grateful that Digidesign is gifting us with more tracks.

Delay Compensation: Again not implemented and something Digidesign has decided we don't need really and there are "ways around it".....if you buy
HD. Hmm, pyramid scheme appearing.


BUT!!

Pro Tools still kicks all other programs *SS when it comes to editing and tracking. I wonder if they should stick to that and become the undeniable
market leader in that section of competition. Perhaps a rebranded production
software package may allow them to retain their "tape machine" status, justifiably and also take a chunk the Logic/Cubase/Reason/etc production tool market. I await the release of Pro Jam V1.0!!

J*808

DamagedTrax

cubase sx3 for midi composing and protools 8 LE for tracking/mixing. suits me down to the ground.

Jimbo808

Exactly, horses for courses. I did not just call you a horse BTW

J*808

old gregg

so out of interest, you'd primarily use pro tools to deal with music that you've created elsewhere? I ask 'cos I've never used Pro Tools and have been considering it as an option for some stuff I plan on recording over the next few months (and am waiting for PT v8 prices from a few of our local suppliers). Sorry if this is semi off topic and all. Is PT not the bee's knees for start to finish music creation ... as in creating midi, adding audio, mixing and export ready for mastering audio? Just curious and as I'm Windows based Logic is not an option.

DamagedTrax

Jimbo808 wrote: »

Exactly, horses for courses. I did not just call you a horse BTW

J*808

you callin me a course? :mad:


:pac:

dav nagle

old gregg wrote: »

so out of interest, you'd primarily use pro tools to deal with music that you've created elsewhere? I ask 'cos I've never used Pro Tools and have been considering it as an option for some stuff I plan on recording over the next few months (and am waiting for PT v8 prices from a few of our local suppliers). Sorry if this is semi off topic and all. Is PT not the bee's knees for start to finish music creation ... as in creating midi, adding audio, mixing and export ready for mastering audio? Just curious and as I'm Windows based Logic is not an option.

Okay forget about Logic but you were the one who said you want a DAW that is best suited for synths and Logic is the answer. Pro tools has tools that allow an editor/producer to edit audio very fast and very efficiently. You will not be disappointed with Pro tools in anyway so get mixing ! Both DAWs are designed to do the same job give or take. Pro tools is the bees knees.

Jimbo808

DamagedTrax wrote: »

you callin me a course? :mad:


:pac:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_PZPpWTRTU&feature=related

old gregg

dav nagle wrote: »

Okay forget about Logic but you were the one who said you want a DAW that is best suited for synths and Logic is the answer. Pro tools has tools that allow an editor/producer to edit audio very fast and very efficiently. You will not be disappointed with Pro tools in anyway so get mixing ! Both DAWs are designed to do the same job give or take. Pro tools is the bees knees.

thanks for this. can't say I remember mentioning synths but your recommendation stands anyway. Apols to the OP if it appears I'm hijacking the thread.

I've been looking for a step-up from FL-Studio and Ableton live has proved to be nightmare-ish (for me anyway) when it comes time to mixing so figured I'd give PT a spin round the block for a few months.

Well, I'll see what happens when I eventually track down somewhere that sells PT8 M-Powered via the interweb.

thanks again,
Mick

dav nagle

old gregg wrote: »

thanks for this. can't say I remember mentioning synths but your recommendation stands anyway. Apols to the OP if it appears I'm hijacking the thread.

I've been looking for a step-up from FL-Studio and Ableton live has proved to be nightmare-ish (for me anyway) when it comes time to mixing so figured I'd give PT a spin round the block for a few months.

Well, I'll see what happens when I eventually track down somewhere that sells PT8 M-Powered via the interweb.

thanks again,
Mick

My mistake, do excuse me, it was Music Matty who wanted synths not your good self, my apologies.

old gregg

dav nagle wrote: »

My mistake, do excuse me, it was Music Matty who wanted synths not your good self, my apologies.

o I want synths, I want more synths than Rick Wakeman, I just never mentioned them until now

PaulBrewer

I see there's a Pro Tools 8 Video Podcast too