Clocked cars

derossi

A question for you?

Say you went to see a car you really liked, now the fella that had the car imported cars from the U.K. You decided to buy the car because you thought it was a good deal. A good deal not as in really cheap but the quality seemed good and the spec was top of the range. So you bought the car and changed the plates. Say total spend was around 25k. A fair chunk of change for a car. The car had around 72k miles on it when you bought it which was around average mileage for the car.

Now say one day you are at work and you get a phonecall saying a letter has arrived from west mercia police constabulary. You think to yourself thats strange? I wonder what i did now? So you get home and read through the letter and your jaw drops to the floor........The jist of the letter is that a gang had been operating in England buying high mileage cars, clocking them and re-selling them.

The gang had been breaking into garages and stealing service stamps and stuff like that. They then where forging documents to correspond to the new mileage. The letter states that they want to include your car as part of the court case at the high court and request all the documents and a statement. So basically now you have a car that is worth a hell of a lot less than what you paid for it. The new and improved mileage is now around 180k. Who knows if the guy the car was bought off of is in on the scam or if he knew nothing....

Obviously this is only fiction.:mad:..but how would you feel? And what would you do?

ninty9er

Unless it can be proved that the seller clocked the car...(i.e it was a garage with a SIMI sale form completed with mileage on trade in) there is SFA that can be done.

derossi

Yeah but the seller more than likely didnt clock the car, the gang did! But if i bought the car with x amount of miles on it and later find out the car had twice that? Also it was sold with forged documents? The original ones are available....

Anan1

I'd feel pretty stupid for not having verified the service history with the garages and run a full HPI report on a €25k car.

i'd probably go about re-clocking the car. karma and all that.


in all seriousness tho, all the checks should have been done.

derossi

Well hindsight is great for someone who doesnt know much about buying cars. I guess then from what you are saying it's just a case of bite the bullet. Still frustrating though.....

cianclarke

derossi wrote: »

Well hindsight is great for someone who doesnt know much about buying cars. I guess then from what you are saying it's just a case of bite the bullet. Still frustrating though.....

As somebody who was caught out by a clocker forging stamps I can sympathize. I got my money back after a fairly lengthly and stressful argument with the bank, obviously you won't be so lucky, it does sound like tough crap..

180k miles, however - it could be a lot worse. What I'd do if there was no hope of going back is take the car to a decent independent mechanic of that brand, get them to check the car out fully, see where it's at mechanically, what work needs doing. Chances are there will be very little, if it comes to it perhaps sitting in a new engine might even be an option?

In your situation I'd feel an awful lot better after a decent mechanic had a look about and saw all in order, no work needing doing. Don't s'pose you want to tell us what the car is?
Best of luck anyway

bazz26

derossi wrote: »

Well hindsight is great for someone who doesnt know much about buying cars. I guess then from what you are saying it's just a case of bite the bullet. Still frustrating though.....

The things if I was parting with €25k for a car I would make it my business to find out as much as possible about the pros and cons of buying cars including what checks to do before handing over a cent.

A car is probably the second most important purchase in your life after a house, you will ever make. If it was a house even if your first one I'm sure you would do everything by the book before signing on the dotted line. If you didn't know I'm sure you would ask someone who does. Purchasing a car should be no different.

Sangre

bazz26 wrote: »

A car is probably the second most important purchase in your life after a house, you will ever make. If it was a house even if your first one I'm sure you would do everything by the book before signing on the dotted line. If you didn't know I'm sure you would ask someone who does. Purchasing a car should be no different.

Thing is with a house you have a solicitor who's job it is to protect you. Most people aren't car savvy enough to fully protect themselves, even after they try to.

L-M

I could be off the point, but your saying some one sent you a letter and is asking you to send the documentation of your car? What documentation exactly? Just curious, i could be way.

call d

has anyone ever tried to return a second hand car to a dealer? all the laws are there in place but it's still a nightmare, tried it recently and it was/is a right carry on, maybe its just the guy I'm dealing with.

bazz26

call d wrote: »

has anyone ever tried to return a second hand car to a dealer? all the laws are there in place but it's still a nightmare, tried it recently and it was/is a right carry on, maybe its just the guy I'm dealing with.

Maybe you need to get someone like the NCA involved? Might be worth contacting them and explain your position to them. They may be able to help you out or at least advise on a course of action.

http://www.nca.ie/eng/

call d

cheers man I'll have a look

bazz26

Sangre wrote: »

Thing is with a house you have a solicitor who's job it is to protect you. Most people aren't car savvy enough to fully protect themselves, even after they try to.

True from a legal stance but a solicitor doesn't examin the house structure in the event it is ready to fall down. Alot of people jump into buying cars blindly without any thought whatsoever. Until this changes and people start being a bit streetwise then they will nearly always get burnt. Hopefully this recession will make people pay a bit more attention to what they are spending their money on.

B11gt00e

your man ciaranclarke has a good point there... get a mechanic to check it out... I'd actually be happier to know the true mileage and hence do the necessary mechanical fixes required rather than motoring about blissfully in ignorance that you're timing belt could snap or any other number of things... 180k isn't that much really if it's been on motorways all ist life and has a decent service history.

I just retired a car there with 188k miles on the clock... engine, gearbox, electrix were all in good working order. MY mechanic told me that the steering was liable to go due to age (16 years old), thus parked her up as a doner car for my new car. Just get a good guy to inspect the mechanical components and to verify that its safe, and get on with driving it and don't worry too much about it...

It sounds like you liked the car in the first place... so just go out there and enjoy it.

Dazzy

call d wrote: »

has anyone ever tried to return a second hand car to a dealer? all the laws are there in place but it's still a nightmare, tried it recently and it was/is a right carry on, maybe its just the guy I'm dealing with.

Done it recently as the car had an extra owner. In fairness to the salesman I think he made a mistake as he didn't try and bluff it with me when I got the log book and went back to him. In the end they gave me my money back and the money I paid on car tax.

It was from a big main dealer though and from what I've heard since this happened I was lucky it went as smoothly as it did. You pay more at a main dealer but In my experience they are better to deal with after the sale. They have a reputation to worry about.

kluivert

OP it sounds like your affilated to the SIMI, and the reason i say this is because they have been on TV (Ireland AM on TV3) stating that car buyers should buy in the south because there is a high risk of clocking on UK cars.

They also stated that buying old second hand cars was a poor idea as there are extra cost in repair and maintenance of an older car therefore car buyers should buy new.

Now my own experience, I bought a Vauxhall Astra 1.7 CDTI in Newry from a Vauxhall dealer last Feb 08. It was an 05 SXI model with 38k miles on the clock.

I had the car checked out, HPI and RAC checked, which did cost a bit of money to do however all details came back ok, mileage, service history, I even went as far as ringing the previous owner, who confirmed that he was on the Mobility Programme they have in the UK.

Now cost - car costed 7500 sterling, converted to Euro was just shy of €10k, Vrt was 3500e. thats 13500e for an 05 diesel Astra. The nearest I could find in the south was for 16500e for similiar spec and year with more mileage.

Another story, when I bought my second car five years ago it was an Renault Clio, it turned out after a closer look that the car was crashed and the chassis wasnt repaired properly, still bent, had been clocked by at least 100k miles, the mechanic said that there was no possible way the car could have 70k miles have have so much wear and tear as it did. He told me that i was lucky the engine give up because if it hadnt I would driving a death trap, he said the brakes didnt have much life in them till they gave up.

How I learnt from that, I then bought an Astra, which I still have, I checked the car properly from top to bottom before buying and I still have this car today, its ten years old, with 130k miles on original parts, still running very well.

Moral of the story is, buying in the UK is exactly the same as buying here, there are risks to buying a second hand car, so dont rush into it, take your time, check everythiing out twice, know what clever questions to ask, if in doubt walk away but most importantly when buying a UK get a HPI check done plus an RAC if you can. It will hopefully confirm that mileage and the history, then go one further, ring the garage where the car was serviced and ask them to check their records against the service book.

This is very simple checks to do.

BostonB

It seems easier to check a UK car, and owners usually are better at keeping records. In Ireland people and garages take it almost as a personal insult, if you want to check the background of a car.

Voodoomelon

Very true, i'd agree with you there.

EPM

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Very true, i'd agree with you there.

I was buying a car once and was made feel like a spare pr1ck when i asked the garage to stamp up the previous history that was with them.went to look at an english import once at a garage i've bought a couple of cars from.the detail in the service history was staggering.down to the last light bulb and wiper blade and this wasn't even a company car from a lease company

Churchy

kluivert wrote: »

OP it sounds like your affilated to the SIMI, and the reason i say this is because they have been on TV (Ireland AM on TV3) stating that car buyers should buy in the south because there is a high risk of clocking on UK cars.

They also stated that buying old second hand cars was a poor idea as there are extra cost in repair and maintenance of an older car therefore car buyers should buy new.

Now my own experience, I bought a Vauxhall Astra 1.7 CDTI in Newry from a Vauxhall dealer last Feb 08. It was an 05 SXI model with 38k miles on the clock.

I had the car checked out, HPI and RAC checked, which did cost a bit of money to do however all details came back ok, mileage, service history, I even went as far as ringing the previous owner, who confirmed that he was on the Mobility Programme they have in the UK.

Now cost - car costed 7500 sterling, converted to Euro was just shy of €10k, Vrt was 3500e. thats 13500e for an 05 diesel Astra. The nearest I could find in the south was for 16500e for similiar spec and year with more mileage.

Another story, when I bought my second car five years ago it was an Renault Clio, it turned out after a closer look that the car was crashed and the chassis wasnt repaired properly, still bent, had been clocked by at least 100k miles, the mechanic said that there was no possible way the car could have 70k miles have have so much wear and tear as it did. He told me that i was lucky the engine give up because if it hadnt I would driving a death trap, he said the brakes didnt have much life in them till they gave up.

How I learnt from that, I then bought an Astra, which I still have, I checked the car properly from top to bottom before buying and I still have this car today, its ten years old, with 130k miles on original parts, still running very well.

Moral of the story is, buying in the UK is exactly the same as buying here, there are risks to buying a second hand car, so dont rush into it, take your time, check everythiing out twice, know what clever questions to ask, if in doubt walk away but most importantly when buying a UK get a HPI check done plus an RAC if you can. It will hopefully confirm that mileage and the history, then go one further, ring the garage where the car was serviced and ask them to check their records against the service book.

This is very simple checks to do.

Good call Kluivert.

The post is vague , made to sound as if it could happen and attempts to spread worry.

Kind of like the push-polling used by Bush/Rove in 2000 - google it , its a nasty way of spreading propaganda.