750i Sport or 535d

PhilipMarlowe

Hello...

In the market for a decent car soon.... I have an A4 2.4 v6 cabrio but the family has recently extended to 3 and the Audi only has two rear seats so that means when we all want
to travel together we take the 2nd car which is a piece of ****.

I wont be doing huge milage - somewhere around the 12-15k miles a year mark....
I am mainly looking between a 2005 750i Sport (€45k) and a 2006 535d (€40k) or something similar.
I haven't seen either car in the flesh and will be waiting to see what new trades become available in the new year. I just wanted to see if people on here had any experience with either model of BMW and what would they recommend.... (I'd also wouldn't be going to offer too close to the asking price for those above two cars)....

Thanks.

bmcgrath

Is that the fugly 7 series? If it's the older model go for it. But that 535D is SWEEEET!

I took one out for a spin and I was really impressed of it's power. Although the rear is a bit tight for space....

zAbbo

No comment on either car, but You could import a 535d from the UK for around 30k, so that might give you an idea on bargaining with Irish sellers.

Tax is always going to be huge on cars that size (reg'd before July 08), might be worth considering for re-sale value - E1,566 on both.

New 535d is around E450 to tax.

Anan1

The 750 is nicer in every way. The 535 is ... cheaper.

Berty

The 750 is very very executive looking so unless you are going for this look then I would stay clear. The 535 is very good looking as is sporty and family all in one.

5 Series gets my vote.

unkel

OP - I wouldn't presume that either car has 3-3point seatbelts. You might want to check that first. As for which car, they are completely different animals! What do you want in a car?

zAbbo wrote: »

Tax is always going to be huge on cars that size (reg'd before July 08), might be worth considering for re-sale value - E1,566 on both.

The maximum rate of tax only applies to cars with engines over 3,000cc. The engine in the 535d is smaller than that, so the maximum rate does not apply. The 750i is €1,566 and the 535d is €1,293 in motor tax

Traumadoc

zAbbo wrote: »

No comment on either car, but You could import a 535d from the UK for around 30k, so that might give you an idea on bargaining with Irish sellers.

Tax is always going to be huge on cars that size (reg'd before July 08), might be worth considering for re-sale value - E1,566 on both.

New 535d is around E450 to tax.

The 535d has a 2.9 lit engine,no?

Wishbone Ash

I don't think those pictures of the 750 are of the one you are interested in as a €64,995 price tag is visible.

Anan1

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I don't think those pictures of the 750 are of the one you are interested in as a €64,995 price tag is visible.

Pics are probably a couple of months old, i'd imagine the car could be had for well under current asking.

alpina

For sheer practicality (if one can use that word when talking about these two cars) would definitely go for the 535d especially when using the word 'family' 750 will do your head in on petrol, with the usual journeys associated with 'family' (trips here/there/everywhere & on to there again)

Whatever you should decide, two nice choices though...:cool:

Anan1

At 12-15k miles pa, I don't think fuel bills are going to figure too highly in the overall running costs. I don't know about anyone else, but i'd cry every time I started that 535d if I knew it could have been a V8 petrol Panzerwagen. If you're going to do something stupid, you should at least do it properly.

PhilipMarlowe

Thanks for the replies...
I am aware of the tax situation as I am used to having a 2.5 and a 2.4 to tax for the last several years...
These bigger cars have already had a big chunk written off their value and I will intend to keep whatever I purchase for several years (8+) so re-sale isn't really an issue.
I like the bigger size of the 7 series and am leaning towards it more so... the fact that the one pictured has been marked down €20k since pictured shows how little in demand it is. I'd be offering €30k for openers and wouldn't pay much more than €35k

PhilipMarlowe

There's a 2005 750 on autotrader with 20k miles for £19k but VRT would add €26k so I think better value to be had here from negotiation?

Yeah the sound of the diesel would always be a slight irritant but they have such torque!

fullstop

Licksy wrote: »

Hello...

In the market for a decent car soon.... I have an A4 2.4 v6 cabrio but the family has recently extended to 3 and the Audi only has two rear seats so that means when we all want
to travel together we take the 2nd car which is a piece of ****.

I wont be doing huge milage - somewhere around the 12-15k miles a year mark....
I am mainly looking between a 2005 750i Sport (€45k) and a 2006 535d (€40k) or something similar.
I haven't seen either car in the flesh and will be waiting to see what new trades become available in the new year. I just wanted to see if people on here had any experience with either model of BMW and what would they recommend.... (I'd also wouldn't be going to offer too close to the asking price for those above two cars)....

Thanks.

Price tag in the window of the 750 says €64,995. Are you sure the price in the ad is not a typo?

rebel.ranter

The 7 series is not that much bigger inside really & it will not handle as well as the 5 series. I had a loan of a 730d, a 530d Sport (& an M5!) a few months back and I thought the 5 was a nicer drive. Also the diesel 5 series will probably burn half the fuel being diesel v petrol.
Also consider the state of the economy now, the government could have a "bright" idea & introduce additional car tax bands like those that existed in the 80's, you could be landed with an unexpected rise.

Are you going down the road of main dealer maintenance or independent specialist? If you are keeping it for the long haul you may as well go indy fro the start.

Still I'd go for the 7 as long as you realise you will have to give it away to get rid of it when you're finished/bored with it!

unkel

Resale isn't an issue, your mileage is low so fuel consumption is not that important. You like the size of the 7 and you prefer petrol over diesel. There's only one option left methinks

I very much doubt you're gonna be disappointed with your choice...

Another matter for consideration is that the V8 petrol is a very strong, reliable and long lasting engine that has a fairly easy life. It is unlikely to give you any trouble over the next 8 years and 100,000 miles. Whereas I'm not sure if the same can reasonably be expected of a highly tuned, twin turbo modern common rail diesel.

TheBazman

I would go for the 535d but then I am biased. I have a 2007 LCI 535d and couldnt be happier with it. It is everything I could need in a car and is perfect for 2 kids as a family car. The LCI model has just a little more power than the pre-LCI model, different lights and a different gear lever. The torque is immense - no matter what speed you are going if you put the boot down it just pulls and pulls. I am getting around 35mpg out of it with around 60% motorway , 40% city.

I dont really know anything about the 7 series but it obviously would be a bit more luxurious, better sound. For me that model is just a little bit ugly.

Matt Simis

If you are looking for a big "barge" with a great engine, have you considered a Phaeton? Im selling mine!
Most likely better spec'ed, same BHP but more torque than the 750i, cheaper fuel and more MPG (though admitedly not much more MPG). Its also a member of the same "family" as your current car. If you arent familiar with the model size wise, it shares its chassis with the Bentley Flying Spur (its sister vehicle) and the layout with the Audi A8, so its 7 series size, but looks more streamlined.

See sig for details regardless, its offered at EUR37k, down a tidy EUR95k from its EUR132k 2004 asking price! :eek:

Anan1

Now that's a car.

TheBazman

Anan1 wrote: »

Now that's a car.

I would agree - thats a lot of car

Rowley Birkin QC

That Phaeton is lovely, highly individual and I'd imagine a supremely comfortable cruiser with plenty of punch from that V10.

unkel

Phaetons are great cars. But surely, an '05 5l 7-series petrol for similar money as an '04 5l Phaeton diesel. Doesn't that make the BMW look better value for money?

Anan1

It does, if they're the same price. The Phaeton is older, and has more mileage up. Once that's reflected in the price, though ...

S.I.R

personally, the feel of bmw's newwer diesel's is weird..., you know it should be a v10/12 super overly sized engine... but its not, you think that bmw are trying to save money and face by making small engined motors ( compared to some bangers on the market ) and think "this going to be rubbish"... Its not...

its by no means a bullet but with light work ( by work i mean electronics ofcourse ) unlocking its potential means you buy it in black, slap two flags of any nation on the front, tint the windows and floor it... gardi escorts all day long :rolleyes:

id happily take a 535d over the 750i... 7 series is built around tourqe but the 5 series has a brilliant balance between the two important figures.


granted the 7 series is a great car, i love its giant " f*** off " size...

but its just... a bit too... executive taxi driver...

rebel.ranter

S.I.R wrote: »

but its just... a bit too... executive taxi driver...

Funny you should say that, it's the first car I preferred sitting in the back rather than in the front of. It is more of a car to be driven around in then be driving. Your kids would be happy though! Especially if you pick up the one with the centrally mounted TV.

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

Phaetons are great cars. But surely, an '05 5l 7-series petrol for similar money as an '04 5l Phaeton diesel. Doesn't that make the BMW look better value for money?

Anan1 wrote: »

It does, if they're the same price. The Phaeton is older, and has more mileage up. Once that's reflected in the price, though ...

Apologies if going off tangent of the OPs question of comparing two BMWs, but to answer the above.. I dont get it, why? The Phaeton isnt a mere 7 Series clone, its a superior competitor. And without spawning another argument, surely being petrol is a negative for the BMW, not a positive, given fuel pricing and economy. They arent "similar money" either, isnt the BMW about €9000 more than my asking?


When I looked at buying the Phaeton my alternative car was the 7 Series. But everything I read and saw put the Phaeton as the better of the 7 Series, exclusivity, comfort, features. The 7 series was also cheaper than the Phaeton back then (and now), I seriously considered buying a 730D based on the sheer "cheapness" of it, but Im glad I didnt. Its almost a different class of car.
Does the 7 series track the position of the sun and increase/decrease heating to each quadrant of its 4Zone Climate control? Was it designed to drive at top speed ("190MPH", though the V10 can hit 200) in a 50c environment while maintaining Air Con temp of 20c for a full 24hrs? Is the 7 series built on the same platform, with virtually the same interior and perhaps better exterior (on the Phaeton) as a EUR300k prestige brand (Bentley)? To boot, with its signature VW/Audi Quattro 4WD, ultra wide tyres and adjustable Air Suspension, its happy and safe rocketing on the motorway as it is sweeping through our backroads on icy mornings.

Yes, its "just a VW", but its the former CEO of one of the most powerful car manufacturers idea of perfection, a monster of a car in person and design, a car that a team engineers were unsure could actually even become a reality and not just a dream. Since owning the car (year and a bit) Ive been in contact with 3 different companies that wanted to use it for press coverage to promote different products. I seriously doubt anyone is too pushed about an "old model" (as 2009 model is out soon) 7 series these days, its just a bit.. bland.

I humbly suggest that you have it backwards when suggesting a veritable two-a-penny BMW is "better value" or should be more expensive, yet as per my Carzone advert, I priced to match import cost of a stock 2004 Phaeton, this isnt some stupid chancing my arm "paddy price". You can read some of the madness that is the Phaeton here.

Tigger

i have to ask

why are you selling it ?

and since you'll only get a few grand for it would you not rent it out for weddings or something (best mans car?)

unkel

Nice post, Matt Simis! Must remember the bit about the 4 zone climate control :cool:

Now if it had that 6l petrol engine (which is nearly as quick as a 750i), I'd be converted. But diesel? And the obsolete PD system at that? I just can't see the point unless you do a huge annual mileage (which the OP doesn't)

Guy:Incognito

unkel wrote: »

Nice post, Matt Simis! Must remember the bit about the 4 zone climate control :cool:

Now if it had that 6l petrol engine (which is nearly as quick as a 750i), I'd be converted. But diesel? And the obsolete PD system at that? I just can't see the point unless you do a huge annual mileage (which the OP doesn't)

If speed is not the issue for him, theres an 06 3.o D Pheaton on carzone for the same money.

TomMc

If it is so good why sell it ? And it is more a case of been rare, esoteric, a Q car even but exclusive? Not really. Despite its underpinnings it is still a VW luxobarge, just full of gadgets and gizmos. Ultimately it is only worth what someone will pay for it. It will always be seen as a poor mans Bentley. It can be a technical tour de force all it likes but it will never have the same kerb appeal of say an S8 or V12, V8 7-Series. But some people just don't get it. Diesels sound uncouth and course (especially on start up) next to a silky smooth petrol engined beast. The fuel of lucifer as Clarkson calls it doesn't cut the mustard with the cognoscenti in enthusiast circles. These modern diesels are excellent as a businessman's express or appeal to the corporate world where image and costs matter most, but petrol is still king when it comes to refinement and driving characteristics, so more for the enthusiast and connoisseur. And cultured folk will always prefer a petrol to a diesel too.

NewApproach

Considering the mileage the OP does, I would recommend the petrol over the diesel.

Relative to insurance, depreciation, servicing etc, the extra fuel used in the petrol over the diesel (either the 535d or the Phaeton) is far from a major factor in terms of running costs.

To be fair to the person who brought up the Phaeton and is somparing the fuel economy to the 750i, while you obviously have vested interests, you are not comparing like with like.

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

Now if it had that 6l petrol engine (which is nearly as quick as a 750i), I'd be converted. But diesel? And the obsolete PD system at that? I just can't see the point unless you do a huge annual mileage (which the OP doesn't)

I considered the W12 Petrol Phaeton, but at 60% less MPG (talking like 15 at best), it would become an extravagant weekend toy and require a permanent spot at the Petrol Station. I also prefer the "bang" the V10 delivers. The V10 Phaeton is described in reviews as delivering a more sporting "S8" like drive than the linear performance of the W12, due to the psychological effect of the torque pushback. At the time the V10 was the best diesel available (anywhere) too, so it had extra kudos in my book.

"Obsolete PD" system? Its not like you can upgrade engine components anyway, I dont get the point!? Obsolete makes it sound old hat... its a Twin inline 5 cylinder (2 engines) with 2 ECUs controlling the load balancing and driving twin turbo's through a custom made transmission braked by the same 8pot Brembo brake pads and calipers as on the Lambo Gallardo. Its a freaking work of art.
The only reason its gone from the line-up is it doesnt meet the latest emission standards, but the engine itself lives on in DPF form in the Touareg and Touareg R50. The V10 was the top of the line model, above the W12.

Tigger wrote: »

i have to ask
why are you selling it ?
and since you'll only get a few grand for it would you not rent it out for weddings or something (best mans car?)

I would like to extract some money from the "car" portion of my life to put towards more.. mundane things. Remember in Simpsons when the power plant closed and Lenny and Carl said "we need our Jobs... for driving to". Like that.. thank you recession.
I think I can get more than "a few grand". There are some people on Irish roads that dare to dream of a life less Toyota.

TomMc wrote: »

If it is so good why sell it ? And it is more a case of been rare, esoteric, a Q car even but exclusive? Not really. Despite its underpinnings it is still a VW luxobarge, just full of gadgets and gizmos. Ultimately it is only worth what someone will pay for it. It will always be seen as a poor mans Bentley.

Exclusive in its rarity, yes it is.
A poor mans Bentley, yes it is, if poor is not having 300k for a car.
VW Luxobarge, yes it is, as is the A8 and Bentley which is made in the same glass factory in Dresden by the same men (both Phaeton and Bentley are handmade side by side). I have Bentley branded parts in the car and Bentleys have VW branded parts.
Knowing its features, merits and bedfellows, I think its the purchase for the thinking man.

TomMc wrote: »

but petrol is still king when it comes to refinement and driving characteristics, so more for the enthusiast and connoisseur. And cultured folk will always prefer a petrol to a diesel too.

This is just trolling. This isnt your Daddy's daysul. I consider myself a fairly diehard enthusiast and when driving 100MPH on the motorway overtaking Porsches and Z4s while the engine hums silently at 1100RPM, I think it sounds pretty damn refined and thats all Ill say on the diesel vs petrol rubbish.

E92

Anan1 wrote: »

At 12-15k miles pa, I don't think fuel bills are going to figure too highly in the overall running costs. I don't know about anyone else, but i'd cry every time I started that 535d if I knew it could have been a V8 petrol Panzerwagen. If you're going to do something stupid, you should at least do it properly.

+1000.

A V8 petrol or a straight 6 diesel?

No contest really.

If economy is an issue, that's why BMW sells a 520d, and for a four cylinder diesel it is actually very, very good. With 177 bhp it will be faster than the V6 Audi Cabrio too and it is so frugal a Toyota Prius can't keep up:)!

unkel wrote: »

Resale isn't an issue, your mileage is low so fuel consumption is not that important. You like the size of the 7 and you prefer petrol over diesel. There's only one option left methinks

I very much doubt you're gonna be disappointed with your choice...

Another matter for consideration is that the V8 petrol is a very strong, reliable and long lasting engine that has a fairly easy life. It is unlikely to give you any trouble over the next 8 years and 100,000 miles. Whereas I'm not sure if the same can reasonably be expected of a highly tuned, twin turbo modern common rail diesel.

Another good point.

Larger engines, especially big lazy V8s will have an extremely easy life, therefore they will last for a very long time, and I would say much, much longer than a twin turbo diesel is going to last.

TomMc wrote: »

These modern diesels are excellent as a businessman's express or appeal to the corporate world where image and costs matter most, but petrol is still king when it comes to refinement and driving characteristics, so more for the enthusiast and connoisseur. And cultured folk will always prefer a petrol to a diesel too.

Yup. Petrol is better, it really is that simple. Everything bar CO2 emissions and mpg is better. Now that several petrols have turbos torque is no longer an issue as turbo petrols deliver peak torque at low revs like a diesel. Even naturally aspirated petrol have more than enough torque for everyday use as wel, that's what the gearbox is for, you just change up later when the engine is developing more torque. Diesel is well .... diesel, the fuel of tractors and other such vehicles, not something a big panzerwagen should be running on.

Why would you want to wilfully endanger people's lives with all the smelly Nitrous Oxides and Particulates by driving a diesel? Even worse why would you want a big expensive car with diesel clatter and rattles. You're telling everyone you're watching the pennies but don't mind spending lots of pounds by driving a paraffin stove.

And don't say that "it's so quiet you wouldn't even know it's a diesel" - the clatter is there even in a 730d, and yes you can hear the dieselness of it even when it is warmed up.

Del2005

Licksy wrote: »

Hello...

In the market for a decent car soon.... I have an A4 2.4 v6 cabrio but the family has recently extended to 3 and the Audi only has two rear seats so that means when we all want
to travel together we take the 2nd car which is a piece of ****.

I wont be doing huge milage - somewhere around the 12-15k miles a year mark....
I am mainly looking between a 2005 750i Sport (45k) and a 2006 535d (40k) or something similar.
I haven't seen either car in the flesh and will be waiting to see what new trades become available in the new year. I just wanted to see if people on here had any experience with either model of BMW and what would they recommend.... (I'd also wouldn't be going to offer too close to the asking price for those above two cars)....

Thanks.

If you have gone to 3 kids you won't fit 3 child seats it the 5 series. My sis has a 06 520 and with 2 seats in the back there isn't enough room for a child to sit, never mind another booster/child seat

PhilipMarlowe

My kids are 8, 6 and now a 6 month old so the older two don't need the huge seats, just boosters...
I will get out and about to check out the cars soon.

My brother has a 645 and I love the engine in it... he had a 4.2 A8 previously which was also pretty cool... so anyway, I am leaning heavily towards the big petrol engine.

E92

Licksy wrote: »

My brother has a 645 and I love the engine in it... he had a 4.2 A8 previously which was also pretty cool... so anyway, I am leaning heavily towards the big petrol engine.

Go for it - you know you want to:)!

The good news is that the 750i has the same basic engine as the 645i, all BMW did was enlarge the 4.4 in the 645i to a 4.8 in the 750i and you know what the Americans say "there's no replacement for displacement";)!

Just remember that you won't get anything for it when the time comes to sell it on.

Definitely a case of heart over head, but money can't buy the feel good factor:)!

unkel

@Matt - I understand why you picked the diesel. I just have a preference for large naturally aspirated petrols. And the OP and I are lucky enough we do a low mileage so we can afford the fuel.

Matt Simis wrote: »

The V10 was the top of the line model, above the W12.

Surely that can't be right. I'm guessing here but brand new, I'd have thought the petrol would have cost at least €30k more than the diesel?

Del2005 wrote: »

If you have gone to 3 kids you won't fit 3 child seats it the 5 series.

You can't state that without actually trying. It depends totally on the type of child seats used. One issue is that some executive class cars don't come with a 3-point seatbelt in the middle - just a hip belt - although I believe there are now some child seats available to fit a hip belt.

Edit:

Licksy wrote: »

My kids are 8, 6 and now a 6 month old so the older two don't need the huge seats, just boosters...
I will get out and about to check out the cars soon.

Two high back boosters and a rear facing infant seat probably fit in most D-segment cars (the 5-series is one size bigger than D-segment). We use the same and it even fits in a Skoda Octavia (C-segment). But you'll have to try to be sure!

Licksy wrote: »

My brother has a 645 and I love the engine in it... he had a 4.2 A8 previously which was also pretty cool... so anyway, I am leaning heavily towards the big petrol engine.

That's basically the same engine as the one in the 750i. In fact it is very similar to to one in my '96 BMW (one generation newer )

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

@Matt - I understand why you picked the diesel. I just have a preference for large naturally aspirated petrols. And the OP and I are lucky enough we do a low mileage so we can afford the fuel.

Surely that can't be right. I'm guessing here but brand new, I'd have thought the petrol would have cost at least €30k more than the diesel?

Oh I like big petrol engines too, but I prefer moderate (3litre ish) capacity with forced induction for the tuning ability. My next car likely will be a big NA petrol as I have no other choice in the car model Im eyeing, but for now I enjoy flooring the diesel around in the good financial conscience that its easy on the wallet, but "murders" all behind me. Yeah, Im a jerk..

I meant it was positioned above the W12 from a technical and marketing standpoint, not RRP (which in Ireland, not that anyone bought one here, was about 20k difference due to tax, more like 10k elsewhere). Secondhand, the W12 is definately cheaper than the V10, it would appear Boards is quite the reverse of the norm when it comes to engine appeal.

unkel

Matt Simis wrote: »

My next car likely will be a big NA petrol as I have no other choice in the car model Im eyeing

What is it? A Holden?

Matt Simis wrote: »

it would appear Boards is quite the reverse of the norm when it comes to engine appeal.

Why would that be?

Anan1

Matt Simis wrote: »

it would appear Boards is quite the reverse of the norm when it comes to engine appeal.

I should f*cking well hope so.:)

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

What is it? A Holden?

Its bad form to talk about the replacement when trying to sell the current one!
I considered the Monaro alright, but its just such an eyesore!

E92

unkel wrote: »

Surely that can't be right. I'm guessing here but brand new, I'd have thought the petrol would have cost at least €30k more than the diesel?

The TDI has 313 bhp. The W12 has 450 bhp.

To quote Jeremy Clarkson "that makes a bit of a difference". The W12 was the top line model. In the UK according to Honest John the V10 TDI was £57,637 while the W12 was £68,260.

That's over £10,500! I suppose with our penal VRT and the completely different exchange rates at the time the price gap could have easily been €20,000 and possibly more, though I obviously can't say for certain.

Matt Simis

E92 wrote: »

That's over £10,500! I suppose with our penal VRT and the completely different exchange rates at the time the price gap could have easily been €20,000 and possibly more, though I obviously can't say for certain.

Sure you can, just look at the 2004/2005 SIMI price list. It was 20k odd here.
I still dispute the W12 being the top line, it was the V10 that was the media darling and had all the custom engineering work done for it and the many white papers published. The W12 was a comparitively easier (though still classed as a) concept engine, it was more portable due to this simplicity too (Nardo Concept, Audi A8L, Touareg, Phaeton, Golf! )

Anan1

Matt Simis wrote: »

I still dispute the W12 being the top line, it was the V10 that was the media darling and had all the custom engineering work done for it and the many white papers published. The W12 was a comparitively easier (though still classed as a) concept engine, it was more portable due to this simplicity too (Nardo Concept, Audi A8L, Touareg, Phaeton, Golf! )

Media darling & custom engineering vs smoother, nicer-sounding, and an extra 140bhp? Decisions, decisions...

Matt Simis

Anan1 wrote: »

Media darling & custom engineering vs smoother, nicer-sounding, and an extra 140bhp? Decisions, decisions...

The W12 has no sound at all. so its neither smoother or nicer sounding! People have left them running in the carpark without realising when shopping (not joking).
I should really attend one of these Meets, so at least you people can experience a "real" diesel and put down ye olde booklet of stereotyping once and for all.
If you can get someone with a W12 Phaeton too, we would be all set for the ultimate drag race, no bull**** allowed!

The launch version of the W12 only had 420bhp, less than 2/3 the torque (of the V10), virtually the same 0-60 in the real world (the V10 is much faster to 60 than the paper figure). crappy 5 speed auto box and the same (delimited) top speed of 200MPH. Then there is the economy, not just the cost, but the sheer hassle it must be.

Think about it, in practice: nearly twice the cost to get to the shops and back. 2x as many breaks in your cross country tour to fill up and you are hampered with the same 90L tank.. which on the petrol with 11 to 18MPG range is realistically too small.

@E92, Im lol'ing at quoting Honest John for research, you notice they mix up performance figures (repeatedly) and claim all 3.2 Phaetons are FWD (ewwwww), mixing up Merc and VW 4 wheel drive systems (4Matic, a joke of a AWD if there was one). Ive given up sending them in corrections, they are woeful.

Whatever you say about me, I research the fu_k out of my purchases.. I know my Phaetons.

unkel

Matt Simis wrote: »

If you can get someone with a W12 Phaeton too, we would be all set for the ultimate drag race, no bull**** allowed!

The launch version of the W12 only had 420bhp, less than 2/3 the torque (of the V10), virtually the same 0-60 in the real world (the V10 is much faster to 60 than the paper figure). crappy 5 speed auto box and the same (delimited) top speed of 200MPH

The W12 would win that drag race hands down. I'm a bit confused why you are getting so defensive, especially by using the "Now that we have derailed another thread into how aweful diesels are.." subtitle?

420BHP is a lot more than 313BHP and torque difference doesn't matter all that much if you put your foot right down in a car with a modern autobox

As far as I know, both are restricted to 150MPH (not 200MPH) as per the well known German saloon manufacturers gentleman's agreement

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

The W12 would win that drag race hands down. I'm a bit confused why you are getting so defensive, especially by using the "Now that we have derailed another thread into how aweful diesels are.." subtitle?

420BHP is a lot more than 313BHP and torque difference doesn't matter all that much if you put your foot right down in a car with a modern autobox

As far as I know, both are restricted to 150MPH (not 200MPH) as per the well known German saloon manufacturers gentleman's agreement

Not defensive, Im just joking that there is virtually 100% theory-talk than you know, practical testing, going on here (Motors board in general I guess). Much referencing websites and quoting figures, all very safe and defined. If this was 20ys ago and a different country Id like to think we could test out these theories and all learn something. Every question here boils down to immovable opinons, debate seems.. pointless.

And we did ruin a pefectly good thread on the whole diesel sucks and ruins cars thing again, it was about two BMWs, I felt guilty enough mearly suggesting an alternative vehicle!



PS: Mine is delimited

daRobot

Matt,

While I appreciate (like me) you're trying to sell your car, the extent of your hijacking of this thread in order to prove the phaeton's worth is a tad OTT, no?

Matt Simis

daRobot wrote: »

Matt,

While I appreciate (like me) you're trying to sell your car, the extent of your hijacking of this thread in order to prove the phaeton's worth is a tad OTT, no?

Yes, I just said that... though in fairness (to me) the last posts here were about the merits of engine fuels that I simply commented on/got suckered into as usual. I did wait till 2nd page to even make my suggestion.

Perhaps leave the modding to the mods, you know, that one Im talking to right there..


PS: Change "Focus St" to "Focus ST" (bolding intended), it looks like a Christmas invition to a place call Focus Street at the moment..

daRobot

Thanks for the tip Matt, i'll be sure not to use it.

Not trying to Mod whatsoever, but you've screwed up a potentially decent topic pimping your Phaeton, and that's pretty clear.

unkel

daRobot wrote: »

Not trying to Mod whatsoever

Well, your comments are considered to be backseat modding in my book. Matt's first post on this thread is indeed pimping his car, but you can assume (from my posting on this thread and my engaging in a discussion with Matt) that I don't have a problem with that. In fact it is rare enough that owners of high-end executive saloons (petrol OR diesel) give their first hand experience here. Now leave the modding to me please...