URGENT- Diesel- flat battery -what do I do?

DonalB

Hope someone is online.
Just found I left my keys in car yesterday afternoon. Lights weren't on but something else must have been. Anyway the battery is completely dead. It's a diesel and I seem to recall something about it being more difficult to jump start a diesel?

What do i can? (I haven't had a flat battery in 15 years and that was a petrol car).

I currently have no access to leads, spare battery ec but could get my son to call. Could I use his car to pull start it? Any other suggestions?
Cheers!

samhail

I had a slight question mark on whether you can push start a diesel but the almighty google thinks you can.
Could try that ?

If you are a member of the AA or you might have road coverage with your Insurance (i know allianz has it with my dad policy). They would have the proper jump start.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58369761#post58369761
from that post the OP called AXA Resuce for €80. (http://www.pmpa.ie/claims/motor.html)

so if you have Axa insurance you might be in luck too i expect.

snowman707

DonalB wrote: »

Hope someone is online.
Just found I left my keys in car yesterday afternoon. Lights weren't on but something else must have been. Anyway the battery is completely dead. It's a diesel and I seem to recall something about it being more difficult to jump start a diesel?

What do i can? (I haven't had a flat battery in 15 years and that was a petrol car).

I currently have no access to leads, spare battery ec but could get my son to call. Could I use his car to pull start it? Any other suggestions?
Cheers!

get your son to pick up a set of leads on the way to you, hook up the leads, sure you know how? keep his car car running at about 1000 rpm for about 4 or 5 minutes , then try starting it off the key

knipex

If you have access to a second car.

Start it, while it is running remove the battery (the engine will stay running and generate enough power to save your radio codes etc.

Put the battery in the "dead" car. Start it and with the engine running return the correct battery to the correct car. The drive the car with the dead battery.

PS I am assuming you are not going to start a 2ltr diesel with the battery from a 1ltr 3 cylinder car.

peasant

As long as there is enough juice left in the battery to open the fuel valve (there should be, doesn't take much) you can push start / tow start no problem. (use second gear)

Starting with jump leads shouldn't be a problem either, just make sure that they aren't the thinnest, cheapest ones and that the engine of the other car is kept running while jump starting.

peasant

knipex wrote: »

If you have access to a second car.

Start it, while it is running remove the battery (the engine will stay running and generate enough power to save your radio codes etc.

Put the battery in the "dead" car. Start it and with the engine running return the correct battery to the correct car. The drive the car with the dead battery.

PS I am assuming you are not going to start a 2ltr diesel with the battery from a 1ltr 3 cylinder car.

bit complimacated, no?

Also, not a good idea to remove the battery while the engine is running
- the engine most like will cut out if it's petrol
- high likelyhood of shorting the loose connectors, thus frying your alternator
- too many moving parts (belts, fans) to be working safely on a running engine

Darragh29

OP, you can tow, push, or jump start this car, (assuming it is not an automatic transmission. If you happen to be parked on a hill, you can start it by rolling down the hill with the ignition set to on for accessories and put it in second gear and keep your foot on the clutch until you have some speed built up and then let your foot off the clutch.

Your current requirements to get it started are minimal, so make sure you have all devices within the car turned off, like radio, heater, etc. There would probably be enough of a charge in the battery to keep the fuel shut off valve at the pump open. You might need to tow it for a few extra metres to allow the compression within the engine to generate heat to get diesel detonation going.

Best approach though is just get a set of jump leads, it wil save a bit of arsing around. Diesels can be harder to push start due to higher compression ratios, but if you have 2 people pushing the car, you'll manage it...

DonalB

first, thanks for quick replies...Happy Christmas!

Son's car unfortunately is 1.2 I think (no answer on his phone, on the piss last night I guess!). Mine is 1.9 so I guess that won't do.
Instrument Panel is dead, no glow plug lights so push start is out.
You've given me something to go on with though. I need access to a diesel battery & diesel leads so?

Darragh29

DonalB wrote: »

first, thanks for quick replies...Happy Christmas!

Son's car unfortunately is 1.2 I think (no answer on his phone, on the piss last night I guess!). Mine is 1.9 so I guess that won't do.
Instrument Panel is dead, no glow plug lights so push start is out.
You've given me something to go on with though. I need access to a diesel battery & diesel leads so?

It will do fine, you can hook your car up to his with jump leads and leave his engine running for 30 minutes connected to yours and his alternator will charge your battery (little trick of the trade!). Go have a cup of tea and when you come back, your car will start. Just don't get the jump lead wires mixed up, positive to positive and earth to earth...

I've done this many a time and I've got a result...

Darragh29

OP, just get any set of jump leads and any car, a Micra will do, hook them up together and go for a cuppa, you're elected! Trust me!

samhail

oh darragh's here now ! your gonna be grand !
(i did hear rumors of boards.ie mechanic of the year!)

peasant

DonalB wrote: »

first, thanks for quick replies...Happy Christmas!

Son's car unfortunately is 1.2 I think (no answer on his phone, on the piss last night I guess!). Mine is 1.9 so I guess that won't do.
Instrument Panel is dead, no glow plug lights so push start is out.
You've given me something to go on with though. I need access to a diesel battery & diesel leads so?

A small donor battery is no problem, as long as it is in a car with the engine running ...just don't try to start for ages at a time, do it in short bursts.

A friendly neighbour with decent jump leads is your easiest solution ...next up is a tow start

Darragh29

This is the important bit OP, 'cos it's a diesel, before you try to start your own car, let the glow plugs operate two or three times, so you have some heat built up in there...

Darragh29

samhail wrote: »

oh darragh's here now ! your gonna be grand !
(i did hear rumors of boards.ie mechanic of the year!)

I'll have to increase my labour rate come January! :D:D

peasant

just a side note

While in an emergency almost any set of jumpleads will do the job, it is generally a good idea to have a decent set for jumping a diesel.

A diesel starter does draw quite some amps and flimsy supermarket jump leads usually aren't able to hack that ...they just get hot, hot ,hot instead:D

DonalB

Thanks again one & all.
Lessons learned:
My Royal & Sun Insurancedoesn't cover any breakdown so I need AA for the new year (broke & unemployed so all these things are luxuries) !!!!

Son gone MIA this ( definetely on the piss or got laid, he didn't go home)!
No neigbhours around.
Anyway, looks like I'll be able to get my ex-wife out of bed and get her to come do the necessary, least she can do after 10 years of monthly financial oncome from me.

Love Boards.ie....again. Happy Xmas one & all.

Darragh29

DonalB wrote: »

Thanks again one & all.
Lessons learned:
My Royal & Sun Insurancedoesn't cover any breakdown so I need AA for the new year (broke & unemployed so all these things are luxuries) !!!!

Son gone MIA this ( definetely on the piss or got laid, he didn't go home)!
No neigbhours around.
Anyway, looks like I'll be able to get my ex-wife out of bed and get her to come do the necessary, least she can do after 10 years of monthly financial oncome from me.

Love Boards.ie....again. Happy Xmas one & all.

Where abouts are you OP, anywhere around south dublin?

Mycroft H

My golf (1.3) once jumped a 2.7 liter dsl nissan engine. There was no end of gloating that day......
Next option is the aul tow start or if you have a hill handy and two people you can push. Second gear works but personally 3rd or 4th can work better in large dsl engines to allow the massive compression to build up ie 2.5l and above
(Works on transits)

itarumaa

There should not be any issues with smaller car > bigger car jumb lead start.

I have tried an Matiz 800cc helping out 1.9 diesel Kangoo and 205 1.4 helping out 4.0l cherokee,

no issues what so ever,

just read the manual for instructions because you dont want to give any electricity spikes to these new cars, it might make some damage.

I think with the matiz scenario we connected the cables, then left my car (matiz) running and approx 5-10 minutes later we started the Kangoo. Then both cables were left connected for futher 10 minutes and after that, both cars were shut down and cables disconnected.

Both cars still work:=) Don´t be too fast to disconnect the cables, because it is possible to damage something.

Darragh29

I started a Volvo F6 recovery truck (24VDC system!), with a Peugeot 206 and a Renault Megane last year! I had to isolate the circuit on the truck and disconnect the serial connection between the two heavy duty 12V batteries in the Volvo and then use each car to charge one battery at the same time for over an hour and a half. Then connected back up the serial connection on the truck and removed the jump leads from the cars, another satisfied customer, happy days!

junior_apollo

peasant wrote: »

bit complimacated, no?

Also, not a good idea to remove the battery while the engine is running
- the engine most like will cut out if it's petrol
- high likelyhood of shorting the loose connectors, thus frying your alternator
- too many moving parts (belts, fans) to be working safely on a running engine

No no and no...

Its a diesel... so get a battery (either from another car/friends/etc) simply unhook old battery (usually just two nuts pinning it in) place good battery in car.. start car...

While car is running.. (the battery should be nowhere near any of the moving parts.. they are designed to allow safe access to the battery in emergencies afterall... )... remove the good battery (diesel engines do not need the same sparks the petrol ones do and so no need to have battery in)... place the old battery back in and secure again... leave the car running/drive the car and dont turn off the engine... your car will recharge the battery with time...

Jumping some cars can cause electric issues, and some diesels dont like it either...

Also remember to diconnect and reconnect in this order... Black last when removing leads, Black first when replacing... this ensures the ground is always in place and there will be a lot less likelyhood of any problems (the 1% chance of something going wrong becomes a 0.1% chance)

So if the option of a spare battery is there then this is deffinately the way to go...

PS - This is from doing the exact same thing myself on my Toyota LandCruiser

Avns1s

For anyone reading this thread, do NOT disconnect a battery in any vehicle, (petrol or diesel), while the engine in running. You are virtually guaranteed to fry the electronics in your alternator. This will cost a lot more to repair than the inconvenience of getting a jump start.

maidhc

Before you will be able to start a modern diesel you will need enough current to
1) Run the ECU
2) Lift pump
3) Injectors

That would mean a reasonably good battery i'd suspect

sonicthebadger*

landyman wrote: »

My golf (1.3) once jumped a 2.7 liter dsl nissan engine. There was no end of gloating that day......

...

I can better that, I started my 2.5l TD Hiace off my 750cc Honda VFR. Took about two hours to get the bike alternator to charge the van battery but worked!

The main issue with using a smaller vehicle to charge a larger one is just the extra time it takes.

Also if you try to start a big Diesel using a smaller battery from a car like a few suggestions here (without the car engine running) you can flatten the car battery in seconds. You'll probably note your diesel battery is close to 100AmpHours a small petrol car wouldn't need half that.

BrianD3

Hope you got sorted, I have a mains battery charger that has been a great investment for such situations. 60 quid from ARGOS
http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/7402113/Trail/searchtext>BATTERY+CHARGER.htm

Take out battery, connect to charger and leave for a while. Also have around 200 feet of extension cable so if car is anywhere near a mains socket I don't even have to remove battery, just disconnect it and bring the charger to it.

DanGerMus

Just and idea feel free to shoot it down.
When jumping can you not just do it straight from the good cars battery without running it and charging it for a while then just drive off and let your car charge itself. Leave good car off connect to bad one turn key and go.No? A little riskier i suppose cos you might cut out again but it's not harmful to do it this way is it?

Darragh29

DanGerMus wrote: »

Just and idea feel free to shoot it down.
When jumping can you not just do it straight from the good cars battery without running it and charging it for a while then just drive off and let your car charge itself. Leave good car off connect to bad one turn key and go.No? A little riskier i suppose cos you might cut out again but it's not harmful to do it this way is it?

That's usually how it's done but the OP had concerns that the battery in the donor car was not of sufficient capacity/too smalll, to crank over his diesel engine so we came up with a fix for that, along the lines of charging his high capacity flat diesel battery with the alternator from the donor car for half an hour...

DonalB

Hey everyone,
First apologies for must have seemed like an ungracious exit after you all provided the help...

Second, repeating again. THANKS VERY MUCH & Happy Christmas to one and all.

Yes I got sorted thanks to all your help.

I took what seemed the easiest approach here (plus the thread was still running). One or two of the last posts cropped up after I was gone.

My ex showed up in 1.1ltr Corsa. Another friend of mine turned out to be working nearby and she's a sailor, and if you know sailors they've a tendency to try to be prepared for everything, so she had an extra long set of diesel jump leads (because well, you never know when you'll need to jump start a yacht from a car in the middle of land-locked south Tipperary :-) Yes, that's true. Just as well 'cause it car was parked facing into a dead end facing downhill.
The thread also mentioned to check the Owners manual, which I swear I wouldn't have thought to do, assuming it wouldn't be in there, but it was. explaining the way to correctly connect the cables.

So I connected the Corsa, let it run 1/2 an hour, then started my car (1.9ltr), Voila then let it run another 30 minutes and then headed off (a bit late but moving!!!!). I had to get going at that stage, lots to be done, so couldn't get back to thank you immediately.

Thanks again guys. There was no-one around this morning, I'm out in the country and my neighbours weren't there. Plus the local 2 garages were closed for xmas. Boards.ie comes through again.
Best of regards, best wishes and happy new year.

Regards
Donal

Darragh29

Glad to hear you got sorted Donal, I got your PM, many thanks!

unkel

Glad you got sorted, and thanks for posting back here!

Darragh29 wrote: »

you can hook your car up to his with jump leads and leave his engine running for 30 minutes connected to yours and his alternator will charge your battery

Not many people seem to be aware of this. It works!

Tonka

ive done a bit of bush driving in Oz. like 1000s of km from anywhere.

I carried heavy duty jump leads and a can of "start ya b#st#rd" that is whats on the label. (theres a more political correct brand name in Ireland) Its a high octane spray you put into the air intake. On a diesel you do not glow the plugs when using it, its that strong.

if the battery was flat but still had a bit of juice in it the spray would start it. I only had the spray as an emergancy backup , i hear its not a good thing to rely on regularly.

another trick is to drain/collect the acid from the battery and carefully heat it up , put it back in the battery and it just might work, possibly something to do with electrons.

dont try this at home. this is like burn the spare tyre survival situation.