Feel Ripped off MSCA course

abakan

Hi all,

I looking for a bit of advice,

Im currently studing part time for the MSCA course in a well known Dublin IT college.

I wanted to do the course as to improve myself, to put further education on my CV to show employers a bit of hard work.

The first class we took with the tutor, he came out and said study, study, study, the testkings answer papers to pass the MCSA exam. He had all the papers to give us.
Now that is all well and good to pass the exam but I wanted to pass the course with classwork and my working knowledge of IT. Plus I feel he dosent put in enough hard work teaching us to warranty paying 2000EUR out of my own pocket, when he knows that by giving us the answers papers we hopefully will pass the course.

Should I feel a bit ripped off or Im I being a being stupid??

CorkFenian

abakan wrote: »

Hi all,

I looking for a bit of advice,

Im currently studing part time for the MSCA course in a well known Dublin IT college.

I wanted to do the course as to improve myself, to put further education on my CV to show employers a bit of hard work.

The first class we took with the tutor, he came out and said study, study, study, the testkings answer papers to pass the MCSA exam. He had all the papers to give us.
Now that is all well and good to pass the exam but I wanted to pass the course with classwork and my working knowledge of IT. Plus I feel he dosent put in enough hard work teaching us to warranty paying 2000EUR out of my own pocket, when he knows that by giving us the answers papers we hopefully will pass the course.

Should I feel a bit ripped off or Im I being a being stupid??

Have u just started the course??2K, not worth it, especially for a crap lazy lecturer, if uve only started i would ask for your money back, loads of MCSA study stuff, Videos , labs to set up with vmware workstation available online for free etc..

_CreeD_

Wow. I applaud you for not just taking the easy way out, not only would any certification you gain be invalidated and revoked by MS (yes they can do that if they believe you cheated) but your lecturers certs. and any rights to teach MS courses would (should) be history too. If they are teaching an MS sanctioned course then he's put the college in breach of contract.
Besides all that as you said he's not doing the job he was paid to, and is trying to cheat you by persuading you to cheat on the exam.
Lastly, and the bit I care least about, I doubt he has actually paid for individual copies of those braindumps either.

Get your money back and do self-study as suggested. You'll save a lot of cash and end up with a much better education. If you feel up to it I'd report the guy to whoever runs the college, and MS.

Ginger

Weird as it may sound

Testking themselves are no longer in violation of the MS Exam stuff anymore since July 2007. Now if the person is distributing earlier versions of their materiel, then you have a problem

MCTs are paid to deliver only MOC (MS Office Courseware) and should not be sending their students to braindumping sites.

OP, I would send a mail to TCTips@microsoft.com and inform them of the practice, you are not getting what you paid for!

Barrypr

Id get my money back, can you go over him, some kind of IT Director for the college or something, find out if they no what he is doing...if he is breaking the law then you should not have a problem.

Id defo email that address given by Ginger.

To quote the tk website in very small writing

Testking Materials do not contain actual questions and answers from Microsoft's Certification Exams

It only says this for MS, dont no how they have been getting away with this for so long.

abakan

Yes some good information there.

Ive being doing the course for a couple of weeks and it has only since I started studying for the exams that the testkings issue has come up + the fact I think the tutor is a bit lazy in his delivery of the course. I definetly do not think I get value for money.

Now the tutor is a very nice man and I have nothing against him other than this. I will be hard to bring this issue up but I think ill bring it up after christmas

I know Ginger has given that email address but I would like to think I wouldnt need to email them.

I wonder then does every course tutor whio give the MCSA/MCSE give the students the Braindumps or is this a one off.

Ginger

Thankfully not all MCTs do.. they are usually the best ambassadors for MS and training out there

unklerosco

What college is it???

mick.fr

I meet some customers who told me when attending a course in a very famous training company in Dublin (With US roots), the trainer gave them the braindumps and they passed the MCSA exams in a week or so.

As a MCT I am just disgusted and I hope I will never come across this other MCT guy. This is because of this kind of guy we have so many monkeys in this industry.

ntlbell

abakan wrote: »

Hi all,

I looking for a bit of advice,

Im currently studing part time for the MSCA course in a well known Dublin IT college.

I wanted to do the course as to improve myself, to put further education on my CV to show employers a bit of hard work.

The first class we took with the tutor, he came out and said study, study, study, the testkings answer papers to pass the MCSA exam. He had all the papers to give us.
Now that is all well and good to pass the exam but I wanted to pass the course with classwork and my working knowledge of IT. Plus I feel he dosent put in enough hard work teaching us to warranty paying 2000EUR out of my own pocket, when he knows that by giving us the answers papers we hopefully will pass the course.

Should I feel a bit ripped off or Im I being a being stupid??

I have said it time and time again on these threads.

You might have been better off posting here before taken on the course.

Complain try and get a refund.

Buy yourself some books and self study

ntlbell

mick.fr wrote: »

I meet some customers who told me when attending a course in a very famous training company in Dublin (With US roots), the trainer gave them the braindumps and they passed the MCSA exams in a week or so.

As a MCT I am just disgusted and I hope I will never come across this other MCT guy. This is because of this kind of guy we have so many monkeys in this industry.

This is pretty much standard practice...

mick.fr

ntlbell wrote: »

This is pretty much standard practice...

Yeah it is sad. But as you know yourself, we see the difference on the field.

unklerosco

Can we not name these companies/colleges??? It would make sense to say who it is or is it against boards rules?? If a college is good nobody has a problem naming them, it should be the same if its bad...

I'm doing a course in Dorset College(highly recommended) at the mo.. The lecturer talked about brain dumps etc. We don't use them, he said it was up to us if we wanted to use them or not but he strongly recommended that we don't go near them until we've completed all the course work, studied the litrature, run over the practicals etc etc.

ntlbell

unklerosco wrote: »

Can we not name these companies/colleges??? It would make sense to say who it is or is it against boards rules?? If a college is good nobody has a problem naming them, it should be the same if its bad...

I'm doing a course in Dorset College(highly recommended) at the mo.. The lecturer talked about brain dumps etc. We don't use them, he said it was up to us if we wanted to use them or not but he strongly recommended that we don't go near them until we've completed all the course work, studied the litrature, run over the practicals etc etc.

I don't see how he's any better?

mick.fr

ntlbell wrote: »

I don't see how he's any better?

+1

unklerosco

ntlbell wrote: »

I don't see how he's any better?

Well he aint giving us the brain dumps for starters, unlike the rest of the posts. He brought them up at the begining of the course and explained how they work.. its fairly obvious stuff. U can learn off anything with practice but ur buggered when it comes to implementing it... Everyone here knows that. If I went in to this course and the lecturer sat there, handed out brain dumps and had us watching Trainsignal/CBT videos I'd have asked for my money back straight away... I can source all that at home myself...

The course is worth the money cause we do 50% practical n 50% theory with loads of discussions based on real situations... As with any other course u gotta put the work in at home too... Thats been my big mistake so far, got a load of catching up to do. I've started suplementing the course with some trainsignal labs(which are brilliant)

ntlbell

unklerosco wrote: »

Well he aint giving us the brain dumps for starters, unlike the rest of the posts. He brought them up at the begining of the course and explained how they work.. its fairly obvious stuff. U can learn off anything with practice but ur buggered when it comes to implementing it... Everyone here knows that. If I went in to this course and the lecturer sat there, handed out brain dumps and had us watching Trainsignal/CBT videos I'd have asked for my money back straight away... I can source all that at home myself...

The course is worth the money cause we do 50% practical n 50% theory with loads of discussions based on real situations... As with any other course u gotta put the work in at home too... Thats been my big mistake so far, got a load of catching up to do. I've started suplementing the course with some trainsignal labs(which are brilliant)

He just did it in a way to insure you knew about them without actually giving them to you.

It's just a crafty way of doing the same thing.

He shouldn't have ever mentioned them to you but by you using them and passing keeps his pass rate up and college making money.

He's no better than the MCT that hands them out. none.

imaleper

Thats not cheating in the slightest though. Reviewing Past exam solutions is a good way to learn the material and get a good understanding of the exam layout and become comfortable with the idea of one!

I personally study that way, and I believe it is more productive, and less time consuming than crawling through every inch of notes. You get to know which pieces of information are more important, and prioritise your learning! But if your not happy with the lecturer then leave!

ntlbell

imaleper wrote: »

Thats not cheating in the slightest though. Reviewing Past exam solutions is a good way to learn the material and get a good understanding of the exam layout and become comfortable with the idea of one!

I personally study that way, and I believe it is more productive, and less time consuming than crawling through every inch of notes. You get to know which pieces of information are more important, and prioritise your learning! But if your not happy with the lecturer then leave!

There not studying past exams.

There studying the actuall exam questions and answers

it's called wrote learning and will do nothing for you when you go and try to get a job.

unklerosco

He was answering a question at the time, one of the guys asked about using them... Everyone knows about brain dumps.. Its gonna come up in any course you do. Before I went to do a course I asked around a couple of our clients who are IT admins as to what they'd recommend. They all said courses where a waste of time n money, do some braindumps n pass the exam... This was the advice given to me by at least 5 guys...

U can't say that the lecturer is no better than someone who says to stuy brain dumps to pass the exam on the first day... If he said that I'd be long gone. He explained them, said it was up to us if we where to use them, suggested we didn't and got on with his work.. I think thats a bit different to someone who says u have to use them to pass the exam..


I was in the OPs situation before, went to do a Network + course in Fas years ago.. All we did was go in at 8am n watch CBT nuggets videos till 4pm every day n do a couple of braindumps now n again. It was a waste of time...

ntlbell

unklerosco wrote: »

He was answering a question at the time, one of the guys asked about using them... Everyone knows about brain dumps.. Its gonna come up in any course you do. Before I went to do a course I asked around a couple of our clients who are IT admins as to what they'd recommend. They all said courses where a waste of time n money, do some braindumps n pass the exam... This was the advice given to me by at least 5 guys...

U can't say that the lecturer is no better than someone who says to stuy brain dumps to pass the exam on the first day... If he said that I'd be long gone. He explained them, said it was up to us if we where to use them, suggested we didn't and got on with his work.. I think thats a bit different to someone who says u have to use them to pass the exam..


I was in the OPs situation before, went to do a Network + course in Fas years ago.. All we did was go in at 8am n watch CBT nuggets videos till 4pm every day n do a couple of braindumps now n again. It was a waste of time...

if you advocate the use of braindumps in anyway you shouldn't be an MCT

he didn't discourage the use of them which as an MCT he should he said it was up to you but use them at the end

that's as bad as handing them out.

I'm not going to keep going round in circles on this.

zillmere

Courses are never a wate of time. Braindumping an exam with no real world knowledge then not knowing how to use what you are certified in is a waste of time.

unklerosco

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm not going to keep going round in circles on this.

Same here... Gonna get back to setting up my server n doing some study.

Although, back to my original point... Why don't people name colleges they aint happy with??

zillmere wrote: »

Courses are never a wate of time. Braindumping an exam with no real world knowledge then not knowing how to use what you are certified in is a waste of time.

Totally agree with that...

ntlbell

unklerosco wrote: »

Same here... Gonna get back to setting up my server n doing some study.

Although, back to my original point... Why don't people name colleges they aint happy with??

I've worked in IT a long time during that time I spent a fair bit of it working in Microsoft I've been to nearly every test center/college/trainging school that does MCP's in Dublin

I've yet come across one that didn't use some form of braindumping at the end of the course not one.

I've yet to come across an MCT deliver the course well.

If I was to name the ones I wasn't happy with there would be nowhere to do it.

dublinpd

ntlbell wrote: »

if you advocate the use of braindumps in anyway you shouldn't be an MCT

he didn't discourage the use of them which as an MCT he should he said it was up to you but use them at the end

that's as bad as handing them out.

I'm not going to keep going round in circles on this.

Perfect, that's what I was trying to say on my last post about CCNA and received lots of bad answers.
"use them at the end" when you've got knowledge and attended the course you really know how the thing works.
You're not gonna use that in your everyday work but as a final preparation to a test!!
I've seen people with a great knowledge failing in a cert test. I didn't thing the reason that they fail the test was they didn't have knowledge.

unklerosco

Do you teach?? Assuming you've the qualifactions and experience and from what ur saying you should give it a go. I'm not being smart or sarcastic here... I know where ur comming from and I understand ur points. Fair enough my lecturer isn't perfect but from what i've read and seen he's by far the best I could find... My only problem with the course is that its very fast. Most if not all of the other guys in the course are way ahead of me in terms of Server 2003 experience... But there's nothing I can do about that other than study my ass off, which for me is hard as I hate reading books. I work much better with hands on experience.. I get none of that through work tho...

ntlbell

unklerosco wrote: »

Do you teach?? Assuming you've the qualifactions and experience and from what ur saying you should give it a go. I'm not being smart or sarcastic here... I know where ur comming from and I understand ur points. Fair enough my lecturer isn't perfect but from what i've read and seen he's by far the best I could find... My only problem with the course is that its very fast. Most if not all of the other guys in the course are way ahead of me in terms of Server 2003 experience... But there's nothing I can do about that other than study my ass off, which for me is hard as I hate reading books. I work much better with hands on experience.. I get none of that through work tho...

I don't teach because it wouldn't be worth my while financially and I really don't have the patience required.

The courses are generally thought very quickly because I think I mentioned all ready they are designed for people who have been working with the product for at least 12 months and all ready have real world experience.

The courses are generally designed to fill in any gaps you might have.
If i could memories a MOC book word for word in my head I would probably still fail the exam because the questions aren't usually based on the course they are "real world" questions and you should be able to answer these based on your real world experience + gaps filled by the course

So it's a bit of a catch 22, the ideal situation is you get yourself a low level job in an MS shop and self study while working on the job.

zillmere

The real world experience is the MOST important part.

The MS courses & exam questions are based on doing everything the MS way. For example, in kooky MS exam land, you have a sub domain for every department in your company & you have your own DNS & web servers out in the DMZ.

The other problem with the MCSE / MCSA 2003 course & exams are that they were writen ages ago. That is why they still talk about modems and are generally out of date from a wider networking perspective.

mick.fr

Last thing I would add on this is that if a MCT actually provides braindumps to customers he can easily be disqualified for life and get all his certifications wiped out in 5mn by Microsoft. Which is fair enough.

mark renton

ntlbell wrote: »

There not studying past exams.

There studying the actuall exam questions and answers

it's called wrote learning and will do nothing for you when you go and try to get a job.

I dont endorse any cheating in any way imaginable, but could I have a copy of this study material just to comment on a more knowlegeble basis

aidan_walsh

We don't allow sharing of these materials here, nor recommendations of where to find them. The exams are the copyright and property of the certifying company.