Sean Fitzpatrick resigns as Anglo chairman

eigrod

According to 9 o' clock news when the auditors came in, he arranged loans from other banks to cover his own loan and when they'd gone, he paid back the arranged loan. ffs, 87m, it's unimaginable.

http://www.rte.ie/business/2008/1218/fitzpatrick.html

Fitzpatrick resigns as Anglo chairman
Thursday, 18 December 2008 21:07
Sean Fitzpatrick, Chairman of Anglo Irish Bank, has resigned tonight in a controversy over directors' loans.

In a statement released this evening, Mr Fitzpatrick said his resignation related to an €87m loan he had from the bank.

More to follow...

snubbleste

:eek:

You simply could not make this stuff up!
Hopefully there'll be a Garda investigation and a trial, oh wait this is ireland..

DarkJager

What exactly would anybody need an €87m loan for????

ntlbell

DarkJager wrote: »

What exactly would anybody need an €87m loan for????

coke and hookers.

Johnnio13

your ma

eigrod

Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan has welcomed the appointment of Donal O'Connor as the new chairman of the bank.

The Minister said that Mr O'Connor, who has a substantial and impressive commercial track record, seems a natural choice to lead this financial institution in what is a challenging period for all financial institutions.

Minister Lenihan said Anglo Irish remained covered by the banking guarantee.

He said he was disappointed at the circumstances surrounding Mr Fitzpatrick's departure and said it was important corporate governance was upheld.

He added the Government was making progress on recapitalising the banks.

"disappointed at the circumstances surrounding Mr Fitzpatrick's departure and said it was important corporate governance was upheld." - Dear God, absolutely no condemnation of the man at the centre of this absolute scandal. They're all in the one club and the rest of us can f**k right off and they don't care if we lose our jobs or our houses.

MementoMori

Some comedy gold here - shame he wasnt asked if he a spare 87 million as opposed to a spare million

5 MINS WITH Sean Fitzpatrick
Independent.ie WebSearch
Saturday October 28 2006

Who?: Sean Fitzpatrick, chairman of Anglo Irish Bank and chairman of Ready For Work (RFW) programme.
Where?: Anglo Irish Private Banking HQ, Connaught House.

When?: Tuesday afternoon.

What's up?: "With the Ready For Work Programme, we are trying to get the homeless back to work. We go to the homeless agencies, we interview them, give them intensive three-day training. Companies like Brown Thomas, KPMG, Marks and Spencer then give a two-week placement which is unpaid. From our last group of 15, permanent jobs went to 10."

What made you jump out of bed this morning?: "My wife pushed me out of bed, but I'm very enthusiastic about RFW."

How many hours in your day?: "I sleep for eight so there must 16."

Do you miss life at Anglo Irish Bank? (Sean was CEO until two years ago): "I don't miss one minute of it. There's a time to do things and a time to go, some people stay too long. I'm still lost but I believe I'll find myself."

What has been your biggest challenge?: "Finding contentment, be that working 20 hours a day, playing golf or whatever."

What drives you nuts?: "The Hollywood set, people who aren't real, bureaucracy, falseness."

Are you ambitious now?: "Not really, and certainly not on the golf course."

What about downtime?:"I don't really have any. I enjoy walking with the family; I enjoy travel."

"What are you currently reading?: "Michael O Muircheartaigh's autobiography."

Are you a high-energy guy?: "My wife would probably say I am."

Are you a details person?: "I wouldn't be well organised and would be fearful of those who are."

Do you have any regrets?: "Millions in every part of my life, but that doesn't mean I'm unhappy."

if you had a spare million? "I'd do something for the homeless; provide day-time facilities."

If you weren't Seanie Fitz who would you have liked to be?: "I would love to have been a professional footballer like Eric Cantona."

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/5-mins-with-sean-fitzpatrick-75595.html

justfortherecor

Yet another reason to love the Anglo Irish Bank boys club.

Man, I wish there could be a clean way to let this joke of a bank fold.

eigrod

What drives you nuts?: "The Hollywood set, people who aren't real, bureaucracy, falseness."

Yeah, all that paperwork one must go through just to cover up a mere €87m loan must be a right pain in the a_rse. Poor soul.

BendiBus

snubbleste wrote: »

:eek:

You simply could not make this stuff up!
Hopefully there'll be a Garda investigation and a trial, oh wait this is ireland..

I'm not denying the seriousness of what was done. It's shocking. But was anything illegal done? What should he be tried for?

The statement from the bank, according to RTE, says

This transfer of loans did not breach banking or legal regulations. It was, however, inappropriate from a transparency point of view.

justfortherecor

It raises some very serious questions though.

What criteria was employed to grant an individual 87m in loans, and whether this criteria was relaxed due to Fitzpatrick's position in the bank?

Did Anglo Irish assist/advise in removing the funds from the balance sheet each year (and, in effect, hide them from their own auditors)?

There'll surely have to be an investigation into this sort of crap. It's surely teetering on the edge of illegality and some of the banks major investors are surely unhappy with the way bank funds have been used and moved like this by a chairman.

trishasaffron

And the rest of the Board accept his resignation with "deep regret" - christ almighty - they should all be sacked.

Who is the Govt's director on Anglo? Was it him spilled the beans?

Hanley

If only you guys knew...

Tip of the iceberg.

Hanley

justfortherecor wrote: »

Did Anglo Irish assist/advise in removing the funds from the balance sheet each year (and, in effect, hide them from their own auditors)?

Hello Enron?

pocketdooz

Bye bye Anglo. This is the scratching of the outer layer.

This situation is very similar to what happened to REFCO in New York in 05-06. The head guy there did some balance sheet movements of this nature and after the scandal was exposed the company just imploded on itself.

A lack of confidence had already gripped Anglo but now comes the lack of trust.

This could be a disaster for Irish finance very soon

rugbyman

Good Morning

Last evening had to be a big news item night , and not a peep from a soul but Pocketdooz, with an ambivalent comment. Come on posters,which way will Anglo Irish share price go following the resignation, up or down,I reckon it will rise .
Regards.
Rugbyman

Idu

and you would be wrong - listed at 19c now

pocketdooz

19c now. Some serious volume being traded

BOI at 74c - I wonder is this a good time to buy ? :rolleyes:

silverharp

Seriously where did the money go? is it pi#### away in some property development / hedge fund etc.?

Baird

rugbyman wrote: »

Good Morning

Last evening had to be a big news item night , and not a peep from a soul but Pocketdooz, with an ambivalent comment. Come on posters,which way will Anglo Irish share price go following the resignation, up or down,I reckon it will rise .
Regards.
Rugbyman

Mate why on earth would it rise?
They have just uncovered a hornets nest of hidden loans and shady dealings
from the management of a company that has seen its stock price hammered.
Avoid Anglo for crying out loud, pretend it doesnt exist

ixus

Funny,was having a chin wag wth a few mates on Wednesday night and we reckoned a head would role there by Christmas.

old boy

did any one ask sean quinn for a quote on this

Mikel

Hanley wrote: »

Hello Enron?

Enron doesn't seem the right comparison, I think in that case it was about booking false profits and the auditors were complicit.
I doubt in this case, though you never know, that the auditors were aware, but someone else, must have known. Surely the board should have known too?
I'm struggling though to come up with a similar case.

Also, I can't believe this was not already illegal........... I forget most of the accounting I've done but I'm pretty sure 'true and fair reflection' appears in there somewhere....

rugbyman

Hello Baird
I merely expressed my opinion. Nobody else did,and you have not either.
I believe the outing of the chairman may be, no,is the first step to recovery.

This is not an argument, just me voicing my opinion on likely direction of share prices. Not many have.


Pocketdooz reports vast volumes being traded. some of those buyers will/may/can resell. Had I bought at 19 cent,as I went on the school run and sold after my morning coffee at 27, I would have had 50 % profit.

But A, I didnt
B If my Aunt had b.lls ,she would be my Uncle

regards, Rugbyman

Baird

rugbyman wrote: »

Hello Baird
I merely expressed my opinion. Nobody else did,and you have not either.
I believe the outing of the chairman may be, no,is the first step to recovery.

This is not an argument, just me voicing my opinion on likely direction of share prices. Not many have.


Pocketdooz reports vast volumes being traded. some of those buyers will/may/can resell. Had I bought at 19 cent,as I went on the school run and sold after my morning coffee at 27, I would have had 50 % profit.

But A, I didnt
B If my Aunt had b.lls ,she would be my Uncle

regards, Rugbyman

My opinion has been expressed many many times in this forum.
Have a look at the other threads.
In essence the only bank i have any time for is AIB, wouldnt touch the rest
simple as that.
To say that Anglos share price would rise after it is found out that the
chairman was involved with shady personal loan dealings to the tune of €87m
really is mindblowing.

Idu

Seriously man your posts read like utter waffle. It may be just a breakdown in communication or your posting style but I'm struggling to find a post of yours that makes a valid financial point and isnt just waffle. It reminds me of when I didnt know the answer in an exam so I'd write down anything I could think of even remotely associated with the topic

silverharp

Mikel wrote: »

Enron doesn't seem the right comparison, I think in that case it was about booking false profits and the auditors were complicit.
I doubt in this case, though you never know, that the auditors were aware, but someone else, must have known. Surely the board should have known too?
I'm struggling though to come up with a similar case.

Also, I can't believe this was not already illegal........... I forget most of the accounting I've done but I'm pretty sure 'true and fair reflection' appears in there somewhere....

Carphone warehouse seems like a similar example, the rest w just dont know about yet:rolleyes:

Baird

David drumm has just resigned now.
Really wouldnt like to be a shareholder in anglo right now.

woodseb

David Drumm has resigned now

rugbyman

Baird,
I have read most of your posts with interest. you seem to follow a logical train of thought and i think you have contradicted the NAY sayers on occasion and even been accused of being a banker ( I am writing this from memory, hope got that bit right,or I am a pigs a.se, )

This morning I merely expressed my opinion and invited others to give theirs.
Other than attacking my opinion, nobody else has given theirs ,neither you nor Janets on clubs.

There are not many certainties in life,
but one of these is,


A Anglo will stay at 32 cent for ever. Last nights closing price

B Anglo will rise above 32 long term ( one minute to one year)

C Anglo will fall below 32 long term ( " " )

twice this morning you have indicated that you think my thought process is not logical (my words)., and that is ok with me

Now, following another resignation, I feel more so that the corner may have been turned.
thats all, just my feeling, not backed up with books and theorems.

Would you care to give your opinion, not on what I said , but on the question I asked, which of the above would you think is the most likely.

I am not into splitting hairs on the hour by hour fluctuations of today.
Money has been made today, unfortunately not by me.


Janets on Clubs , you posted 25 cent at 8.27, changed it to 19 cent at 8.32

and mid morning slagged me.

Do you actually have an opinion on todays question and would you care to share it with us.


regards, Rugbyman

pocketdooz

Baird

I have a question for you.

Will it

a) Snow tomorrow

b) Snow sometime after the day after tomorrow

c) Snow the day after tomorrow

d) Snow more that day than next Monday

The weather is colder today than yesterday, therefore it must get warmer tomorrow. I am not basing this on anything what-so-ever and those of you out there that know anything about this matter (you NAY sayers and theorists :rolleyes:) and base it on silly things like current events, underlying fundamentals etc. just stay out of this OK !

Also, I have another line of thinking too. If I bought a piece of wood for €20, then found out it was only worth €1, I haven't actually lost money - because I haven't sold it yet :cool:
I think it has to go up sometime - maybe I'll take all my kids college fund and buy rapidly depreciating assets later today for no apparent reason. That seems like a good idea I think.

BOI shares are now trading at 65c, that means they are even cheaper than they were yesterday - BARGAINTOWN !

I love the stock market - it's so much fun






.

Ghostrider1

i am a little confused on this. Both the Anglo and the Financial regulator press releases state that althought not illegal the fact that the loans were moved off balance sheet at year end made it "inappropriate from a transparency point of view "

My from my reading of the companies Act 1990 it states the financial statements must disclose
1.the opening and closing value of the loan (no problem as Sean had moved the balance to fingers in Irish nationwide(why are we not suspried he was involved in this))
and
2. The highest value of the loan during the year

clearly they did not comply with point 2 and were in breech of companies law for 8 years or do Sean and the Financial Regulator regard company law as just " guidelines "

Baird

rugbyman wrote: »

Baird,
I have read most of your posts with interest. you seem to follow a logical train of thought and i think you have contradicted the NAY sayers on occasion and even been accused of being a banker ( I am writing this from memory, hope got that bit right,or I am a pigs a.se, )

This morning I merely expressed my opinion and invited others to give theirs.
Other than attacking my opinion, nobody else has given theirs ,neither you nor Janets on clubs.

There are not many certainties in life,
but one of these is,


A Anglo will stay at 32 cent for ever. Last nights closing price

B Anglo will rise above 32 long term ( one minute to one year)

C Anglo will fall below 32 long term ( " " )

twice this morning you have indicated that you think my thought process is not logical (my words)., and that is ok with me

Now, following another resignation, I feel more so that the corner may have been turned.
thats all, just my feeling, not backed up with books and theorems.

Would you care to give your opinion, not on what I said , but on the question I asked, which of the above would you think is the most likely.

I am not into splitting hairs on the hour by hour fluctuations of today.
Money has been made today, unfortunately not by me.


Janets on Clubs , you posted 25 cent at 8.27, changed it to 19 cent at 8.32

and mid morning slagged me.

Do you actually have an opinion on todays question and would you care to share it with us.


regards, Rugbyman

My thinking is that Anglo are about to uncover a series of "irregularities"
belonging to board members etc which could cause the bank to collapse.
This could lead the government to step in and nationalise the bank fully, or
partially. Alternatively they could just let the bank go to the wall, install
a private consortium to oversee the run off of the loan book and we wave
bye bye to Anglo. To be honest that would be my preferred outcome as i
dont see how a bank with a model which is so vague and lacks transparency
has any place in the future banking system.
That said depending if/how Anglo is recapitalised it could be over €1 in a matter
of days, it could just as easily be gone by then thats the bet now.
Make no mistake anyone buying Anglo is NOT investing, they are purely gambling.
Me i prefer to gamble on football and GAA, stocks are for investing.

pocketdooz wrote: »

Baird

I have a question for you.

Will it

a) Snow tomorrow

b) Snow sometime after the day after tomorrow

c) Snow the day after tomorrow

d) Snow more that day than next Monday

The weather is colder today than yesterday, therefore it must get warmer tomorrow. I am not basing this on anything what-so-ever and those of you out there that know anything about this matter (you NAY sayers and theorists :rolleyes:) and base it on silly things like current events, underlying fundamentals etc. just stay out of this OK !

Also, I have another line of thinking too. If I bought a piece of wood for €20, then found out it was only worth €1, I haven't actually lost money - because I haven't sold it yet :cool:
I think it has to go up sometime - maybe I'll take all my kids college fund and buy rapidly depreciating assets later today for no apparent reason. That seems like a good idea I think.

BOI shares are now trading at 65c, that means they are even cheaper than they were yesterday - BARGAINTOWN !

I love the stock market - it's so much fun

In fairness it is cold, but i really dont think it will snow

Ghostrider1 wrote: »

i am a little confused on this. Both the Anglo and the Financial regulator press releases state that althought not illegal the fact that the loans were moved off balance sheet at year end made it "inappropriate from a transparency point of view "

My from my reading of the companies Act 1990 it states the financial statements must disclose
1.the opening and closing value of the loan (no problem as Sean had moved the balance to fingers in Irish nationwide(why are we not suspried he was involved in this))
and
2. The highest value of the loan during the year

clearly they did not comply with point 2 and were in breech of companies law for 8 years or do Sean and the Financial Regulator regard company law as just " guidelines "

Verry irregular and im sure over the coming days/weeks it will esculate.
Thats my gut feeling

rugbyman

pocketdooz,

i know you are pledged not to talk to me , I saw a note of yours to Baird.

May I answer, I am good at these ones.

the answer is B , that is certain

the others may happen, but who could predict.

regards, rugbyman

MementoMori

Ghostrider1 wrote: »

i am a little confused on this. Both the Anglo and the Financial regulator press releases state that althought not illegal the fact that the loans were moved off balance sheet at year end made it "inappropriate from a transparency point of view "

My from my reading of the companies Act 1990 it states the financial statements must disclose
1.the opening and closing value of the loan (no problem as Sean had moved the balance to fingers in Irish nationwide(why are we not suspried he was involved in this))
and
2. The highest value of the loan during the year

clearly they did not comply with point 2 and were in breech of companies law for 8 years or do Sean and the Financial Regulator regard company law as just " guidelines "

Good work - My first instinct was that there surely had to have been some laws or regulations broken as a result of these transactions. I just was having some difficulty thinking which exactly.

On a related note anyone know who the auditors were during this time period. Impressive performance by them. :rolleyes:

Also how in the hell can the board members who havent resigned yet justify remaining in place? Either they knew about this and went along with it ( the most likely scenario), in which case they were complicit in hiding information relevant to the company from shareholders and the regulator or they didn't know what was going on - which would suggest they are incompetent (how can you claim to be competent if you don't know that one of the other directors had taken a loan of €87 million out of the complany)
So which is it - complicit or incompetent?

Also - I don't know if it's possible but it might be an idea to transfer the speculation regarding the share price to the thread Anglo Irish Bank - time to buy as it seems it would be more relevant there than dragging this off-topic. Apologies for the back-seat modding.

Hanley

MementoMori wrote: »

On a related note anyone know who the auditors were during this time period. Impressive performance by them. :rolleyes:

AFAIK it's E&Y. Unless they've changed in the last 18 months.

It's really a weird one like because there'd be nothing there for them to audit since there's no opening and closing balances as the loan doesn't exist at year end....

Obviously they shoulda been looking at the movements in the directors loan nominal to see what was going on.... I'd expect that would pick it up?

More importantly, who audits Irish Nationwide, and why weren't these huge transactions around the year end flagged? Assuming Anglo and INBS have the same y/e....

Hanley

Mikel wrote: »

Enron doesn't seem the right comparison, I think in that case it was about booking false profits and the auditors were complicit.

They speculated on profits which didn't really have any base in reality and booked them years ahead of any cashflow alright. But they also moved hundreds of millions/billions in debt off their balance sheet into SPE's to improve the look of it too.

Of course Anglo wasn't in debt to Sean, but my point was just that moving things off BS at year end to give a false impression and avoid disclosures is similar to what Enron did.

I doubt in this case, though you never know, that the auditors were aware, but someone else, must have known. Surely the board should have known too?

About the level of his loans, or the movement?? Because trust me on this, the level of debt he was in to Anglo was WIDELY know there.

The auditors SHOULD know about the loans tho. They're in there often enough. Like it's a pretty material area for a plc....

Genco

Given that details of loans to Directors are required to be disclosed on CT1 Returns wouldnt the advances and repayments have had to be included annually with each return .....

....... or is it a case that because the principal activity is banking that "arms length" loans made in the the ordinary course of business are not required to be disclosed on the corporation tax returns?

Kinetic^

Good game Auditors, good game!

Dob74

Have a few questions that everyone should no the answer to.

1. Can he pay back the loan and what was it invested in?

2.Was he tax compilent, did he declare the on his tax return?

3.What interest rate was he charged?

4.What are the terms of the loan?

5.Did he pay any money back in regards to this loan or was it left roll over time and again?

How can the financial regulator keep his job. He must be next to go.
What a joke we are, if I was a foreign investor I would stay a million miles away from the irish banks.

ranger4

snubbleste wrote: »

:eek:

You simply could not make this stuff up!
Hopefully there'll be a Garda investigation and a trial, oh wait this is ireland..

I agree, the **** will probably get a golden handshake along with the gold carrage clock and yet joe public would probably recieve 3 months inside for non payment of car tax FFS.

ranger4

Hanley wrote: »

If only you guys knew...

Tip of the iceberg.

Well if the other banks chairmen are found to have pulled the same stunt they should be shot.

BendiBus

ranger4 wrote: »

I agree, the **** will probably get a golden handshake along with the gold carrage clock and yet joe public would probably recieve 3 months inside for non payment of car tax FFS.

Just want to repeat that you have to actually break the law before you can be sent to prison. If he DID break the law then he should face the penalty but these sort of comments are just juvenile.

Johnny Volume

BendiBus wrote: »

I'm not denying the seriousness of what was done. It's shocking. But was anything illegal done? What should he be tried for?

It'll be interesting to see if he's prosecuted for breach of The Companies Act 1993.......

For the past 8 years (every 30th of Sept, at audit time) he clears his Anglo loan with a loan from Irish Nationwide. Post audit, he clears the Irish Nationwide loan with a new one from Anglo.

I would have thought that type of 'financial activity' warrants investigation for breach of company law. If nothing else, it falsifies their year end financial position.

Johnny Volume

VO wrote: »

Another pillar of business society bites the dust. It is an absolute shame. Mr Fitzpatrick only broke the rules of corporate governance. All he did was hide the fact that he had an €87 milion loan from his own bank. Sure everyone knows that all it took was a single phone call to have the loan switched to one of his buddies institutions and then switched back when the auditors had done their duty. It happens all the time.

Once again we see a "great" man being villified and suffering terribly because of a misdimeanour. This happens all to often in this country to Politicians and business people whose love of democracy and the free market are paramount in their beliefs

When are people in Ireland going to learn that rules and regulations are only there for "little" people. People of Mr Fitzpatrick's pedigree are not bound to observe the rules and regulations that ordinary people like me and you have to observe

Succinctly put

Sharehunter

pocketdooz wrote: »

If I bought a piece of wood for €20, then found out it was only worth €1, I haven't actually lost money - because I haven't sold it yet

Assuming €20 and €1 on the open market.

Correct me if I am wrong but if you bought the wood as an investment you either made a foolish mistake or you were ripped off. Sold or not. If not then what do you have.

If you bought it to use it then you might make some money out of it.
Turn it into a spade to dig for food or work on a building site or burn it to keep warm and save your life.

Not having a go...just trying to get a handle on the 'debates' here.

Sharehunter.

Sharehunter

As for Anglo going down the tubes (and I reckon it probably will....and cause trouble for others) if all the dead wood and less than scrupulous (spelling) directors were done away with then it may have a chance of regaining some credibility and continuing as a bank.

I am not sure that the government will allow it to go though as their main concern is the public perception of them (the government) .
Don't want to be seen to lose jobs on people.

Not so much the right or wrong thing to do in a financial crisis and "jaysus what'll we do with this bank sure we can't sell it" but "what's the prettiest way out".

Sharehunter.

stepbar

As much as I admire what Sean Fitzpatrick has done in his professional career I can't admire the fashion in which he mislead investors etc during the past 8 years.

As for the people quoting the Companies Act, it clearly doesn't apply here. The loans he recieved were treated as personal and have nothing what so ever got to do with the application of the Companies Act. Sean Fitzpatrick was acting in his own capacity as a personal customer of Anglo, regardless of the fact that he happened (at the time) to be CEO of the company. It wasn't as if he was borrowing interest free money from the company.

Final point, how the auditors missed this one for so long is beyond me. Surely there would have been a paper trail involved and it would have been clear from same that something was amiss.

Diarmuid

stepbar wrote: »

As much as I admire what Sean Fitzpatrick has done in his professional career I can't admire the fashion in which he mislead investors etc during the past 8 years..

That's like saying you admire Ben Johnson's running career apart from the fashion in which he won.

Mikel

Hanley wrote: »

Of course Anglo wasn't in debt to Sean, but my point was just that moving things off BS at year end to give a false impression and avoid disclosures is similar to what Enron did

There are similarities there alright

About the level of his loans, or the movement?? Because trust me on this, the level of debt he was in to Anglo was WIDELY know there.

It would have to be wouldn't it? A guy can't arrange loans on his own, and the balance must be stored on a system that many people can see

You really have to question the auditors don't you, I know the statements are made at year end but surely that doesn't give carte blanche to manipulate the numbers so they give a certain impression?
Do they just ask for a balance at year end?
Surely it must occur to them to look at movements in accounts?

pocketdooz

Sharehunter wrote: »

Assuming €20 and €1 on the open market.

Correct me if I am wrong but if you bought the wood as an investment you either made a foolish mistake or you were ripped off. Sold or not. If not then what do you have.

If you bought it to use it then you might make some money out of it.
Turn it into a spade to dig for food or work on a building site or burn it to keep warm and save your life.

Not having a go...just trying to get a handle on the 'debates' here.

Sharehunter.

It was sarcasm mate. Trying to create an analogy to the way of thinking of some people on here that there's no loss incurred if you buy a share at €5 and it falls to €1 - that you haven't lost anything yet becasue you haven't sold.