The Voice! Gone.

sunflower27

Apparently it closed today.

Angus MacGyver

This is like the best christmas present ever

Purry Cat

sunflower27 wrote: »

Apparently it closed today.

Correct. Not a particularly seasonal act by that great philanthropist Niall Mellon, is it?

Raze_them_all

Think we all seen that coming tbh

Purry Cat

Angus MacGyver wrote: »

This is like the best christmas present ever

Sorry, for whom is this like "the best Christmas present ever"? The people who are now unemployed?

sunflower27

Purry Cat wrote: »

Sorry, for whom is this like "the best Christmas present ever"? The people who are now unemployed?

Exactly. And a few days before Christmas as well.

Raze_them_all

Purry Cat wrote: »

Sorry, for whom is this like "the best Christmas present ever"? The people who are now unemployed?

I think/hope that was a bad attempt of sarcasm on the posters part

Angus MacGyver

Raze_them_all wrote: »

I think/hope that was a bad attempt of sarcasm on the posters part

you're wrong

sunflower27

Angus MacGyver wrote: »

you're wrong

I can think of a lot better things to get for Christmas than a local paper closing. You don't get out much, eh?

Angus MacGyver

sunflower27 wrote: »

I can think of a lot better things to get for Christmas than a local paper closing. You don't get out much, eh?

Its not a paper, its a rag. I get out a lot actually and my trip to the front door will be made easier now that i dont have to step over that excuse for journalism anymore. Its one less trip to the bin as far as im concerned.

Lets just say that some of its workers have other things to fall back on if you know what i mean

Raze_them_all

Some do, others dont. Others have families to support. Hard to do when your on the dole

Firetrap

Ok, so you didn't like the Voice. Fair enough. I don't like the KK People either but I'd never wish unemployment on any of its staff. The economy in this country is not the best at the moment and jobs are not so easy to find anymore. Cheering because some people have lost their jobs working on a newspaper you dislike is in bad taste IMHO. Perhaps they didn't like the tone of the newspaper either but you have to put bread on the table.

Nightwish

The loss of the paper is no bad thing when you take out the unemployment. I found it a mouthpiece for the McGuinness's, applauding them for fixing potholes, getting grass cut in estates etc and not forgetting that unforgivable article this time 3 years ago. The loss of jobs is always a bad thing, but they were operating on skeleton staff the past few months after letting go most of the staff earlier in the year.

Raze_them_all

Nightwish wrote: »

The loss of the paper is no bad thing when you take out the unemployment.

Now that I agree with

Purry Cat

Angus MacGyver wrote: »

Its not a paper, its a rag. I get out a lot actually and my trip to the front door will be made easier now that i dont have to step over that excuse for journalism anymore. Its one less trip to the bin as far as im concerned.

Lets just say that some of its workers have other things to fall back on if you know what i mean

Cheering because people have lost their jobs - and in the week before Christmas too. You're quite the charmer, aren't you?

While you're at it, care to back up your claim about some of its workers having other things to fall back on? Because no, I DON'T "know what you mean".

EKRIUQ

Angus MacGyver wrote: »

This is like the best christmas present ever

Your obviously a clown, troll or aged about 14 and know no better. A lot of business are finding it difficult times and people like you gloating on the fact that alot of people have lost their jobs a week before Christmas which has a knock on effect with their families make's me sick.

Nightwish

The journalists were freelance, and so were not permanent. I think what Angus McGyver was referring to is that a certain local politician wrote for the paper. It was really the sales and publishing staff that were left, and at that there were very few. As anyone who tried to contact the voice by phone or email over the past few months knows, it was nigh on impossible to even speak to a member of staff.

Purry Cat

Nightwish wrote: »

The journalists were freelance, and so were not permanent. I think what Angus McGyver was referring to is that a certain local politician wrote for the paper. It was really the sales and publishing staff that were left, and at that there were very few. As anyone who tried to contact the voice by phone or email over the past few months knows, it was nigh on impossible to even speak to a member of staff.

Incorrect, Nightwish. The staff journalists there were all earning a weekly wage. (Jimmy Rhatigan, to name but one, was NOT a freelance.) They had jobs, therefore, and now don't.

The certain local politician you refer to used to work for the Voice but hasn't done so since he obtained a state job. Therefore the issue of him having "something to fall back on" doesn't arise since he wasn't working for the Voice.

Anything chance you might come back next time with something that approximates to the facts?

Purry Cat

Twelve jobs gone, according to KCLR this morning.

Still, let's keep these things in proportion. Angus MacGyver's trip to his front door will become a lot easier, as he says. That's what really matters.

Insanesomeone

Never really had an emotional investment in newspapers, but I am slightly happy the voice is gone.

Hmm_Messiah

I would of thought adults would be able to discern what some one was celebrating and what some one wasn't .

I'm not delighted, but am quite happy its gone, I was totally fed up of it being shoved through my door and then me having to pay to dispose of it. Or it half stuck in the door clearly indicating days the house was un-occupied.

It is unfortunate that people lose their jobs but perhaps next time they will be lucky enough to be associated with a newspaper with at least some value, some relevance, some objectivity, and at least minimal quality.

It was a disaster of a newspaper at best, and its cover from a few years back, other than being totally and obscenely inappropriate might best indicate the values/ethos of the editorial staff, and why it will not be missed.

sunflower27

Hmm_Messiah wrote: »

and its cover from a few years back, other than being totally and obscenely inappropriate might best indicate the values/ethos of the editorial staff, and why it will not be missed.

That's unfair. Actually, it is the editor that has the say on what goes on the front page... not the journalists, production staff or advertising people that work there. Do you think they all had a meeting and a vote and decided to run with it?

And it isnt their fault it went to a free-sheet either. What were they meant to do? Leave their jobs because it was being delivered to people's doors?

Angus MacGyver

Hmm_Messiah wrote: »

I would of thought adults would be able to discern what some one was celebrating and what some one wasn't .

Exactly

Nowhere on this thread have I "gloated" over the loss of jobs. I have neither "cheered" people loosing their jobs nor have I wished unemployment on anyone,

It seems as if the paper was fair game in previous threads to be slagged off but as soon as it is gone nothing bad should be said about it.

Sure i forgot we are not allowed to speak ill of the dead............or are we

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054861513

Purry Cat

Stop backtracking.

You asserted that this was like "the best Christmas present ever". You can't now claim that, "oh, that's not quite what I meant!" or "I'm sorry people have lost their jobs!"

As others here have implied, the demise of the Voice is hardly a terrible blow to the world of journalism. But that doesn't mean it's something to be celebrated.

Purry Cat

Hmm_Messiah wrote: »

I would of thought adults would be able to discern what some one was celebrating and what some one wasn't .



It was a disaster of a newspaper at best, and its cover from a few years back, other than being totally and obscenely inappropriate might best indicate the values/ethos of the editorial staff, and why it will not be missed.

Does this mean that the Kilkenny People's recent cover photo of a corpse in a river indicated the values/ethos of ITS editorial staff?

Angus MacGyver

Purry Cat wrote: »

Stop backtracking.

You asserted that this was like "the best Christmas present ever". You can't now claim that, "oh, that's not quite what I meant!" or "I'm sorry people have lost their jobs!"

As others here have implied, the demise of the Voice is hardly a terrible blow to the world of journalism. But that doesn't mean it's something to be celebrated.

Im not backtracking, you came to your own conclusions as to why I was happy about.

read the post, there is nothing between the lines. Where are you getting "oh, that's not quite what I meant!" or "I'm sorry people have lost their jobs!"from


Make your own conclusions about what i said but dont try twist words that were never there

Purry Cat

Angus MacGyver wrote: »

Im not backtracking, you came to your own conclusions as to why I was happy about.

I didn't, actually. You gloated over the demise of the Voice and said that your trip to the front door would be easier from now on.


read the post, there is nothing between the lines. Where are you getting "oh, that's not quite what I meant!" or "I'm sorry people have lost their jobs!"from

Read your own post of 16.31 yesterday where you said you didn't cheer people losing their jobs or wish unemployment on anyone.


Make your own conclusions about what i said but dont try twist words that were never there

I have. We all have. You gloated over the closure of the Voice without thinking about the job losses. Admit you were thoughtless and we can move on.

Hmm_Messiah

Purry Cat wrote: »

Does this mean that the Kilkenny People's recent cover photo of a corpse in a river indicated the values/ethos of ITS editorial staff?

yes it would obviously- you do understand what an editor's responsibilities are?

The difference though is IIRC the kilkenny people apologised and paid a sum to the army benevelant fund.

please note in the above a consistency, and objectivity.

If the Voice was not shoved through my letterbox I'd not care if it existed or not.

Firetrap

Doesn't matter one way or another now. It's gone. Only the Advertiser is left and it's inferior to the Voice IMHO. It's just another paper that's gone up against the might of the Kilkenny People and lost. It seems to be very difficult to get people to change the local newspaper they read.

brettmirl

Firetrap wrote: »

Doesn't matter one way or another now. It's gone. Only the Advertiser is left and it's inferior to the Voice IMHO. It's just another paper that's gone up against the might of the Kilkenny People and lost. It seems to be very difficult to get people to change the local newspaper they read.

I dont think it had anything to do with the might of the KK People.

The whole Voice group of papers is gone. They've been shutting papers in various counties over the last few months.

Kilkenny Voice and Tallaght Voice were the last two left up till last week.

By Róisín Burke
Friday December 19 2008
The two remaining units of the newspaper group in which millionaire entrepreneur Niall Mellon is a major investor closed their doors suddenly yesterday.

Staff at the 'Tallaght Voice' and 'Kilkenny Voice' newspapers were informed that the group was folding yesterday afternoon. There was no prior notice of the imminent closure.

At the Kilkenny premises, staff said a brief announcement was made by founding director John Sheils and the locks on the premises were then changed. The two newspapers employed around a dozen staff each.

The Voice Provincial Newspapers group was set up in 2005 by former 'Sunday World' managing editor John Sheils. Mr Sheils and Susan Sheils are the two directors of the company.

At its largest stage, it consisted of 10 regional newspapers in the 'Voice' name: Kilkenny, Laois, Tipperary, Kildare, Liffey, Tallaght, Cavan, Monaghan, Naas and Galway. Initially the newspapers had a cover price of €1.80 but later they became free-sheet publications.

In March of this year, the Cavan Voice and the Monaghan Voice (both based in Cavan town) closed, closely followed by the Kildare Voice, the Naas Voice, the Liffey Voice (all three based in Naas), the Laois Voice in Portlaoise and the Tipperary Voice in Clonmel. The Galway city-based title closed in October. Each publication employed between 10 and 12 people.

Neither Mr Sheils nor Mr Mellon responded to requests for comment yesterday.

Source - http://www.independent.ie/business/media/remaining--voice-group-newspapers-close-doors-1580506.html

catbear

the rise and fall of the Voice title throughout Ireland mirrors the rise and fall of the property bubble.
the primary functions of any local paper is deaths, births, marriages, legal notices, sales, community notices etc...... the KP was covering that anyway.
it would seem to me, and i'm no expert, that the main bread and butter of the voice was property.
the midland Voice titles folded earlier in the year as the dublin commuter belt was the first to really feel the sales slowdown in housing.
Kilkenny property prices have been extremely sticky up until recently but denial of a property bust in Kilkenny was shattered for good by the massive price reductions for McDonagh junction appartments.
i am sorry for all who depended on the Voice for their livelyhood.
i believe it is inevitable that there will have to be a national write-down of debt, otherwise there will be rioting on the streets if it is perceived that the bankers can drop their keys in through the taxpayers letterbox but recent unemployed are pursued for their debts relentlessly.
i believe there is potential for an online paper, no printing costs. sure it may have a small following initially but it will become essential for the Kilkenny area if the news content is constantly updating.

Dan Chipowski

Purry Cat wrote: »

I have. We all have. You gloated over the closure of the Voice without thinking about the job losses. Admit you were thoughtless and we can move on.

Purry, you sound like someone whose lost their job recently

Purry Cat

Dan Chipowski wrote: »

Purry, you sound like someone whose lost their job recently

Didn't, thankfully!

spoonbadger

Purry Cat wrote: »

I have. We all have. You gloated over the closure of the Voice without thinking about the job losses. Admit you were thoughtless and we can move on.

Since when are you the judge/jury/executioner of internet morality?. Angus should not have to admit he was thoughtless. Angus like the rest of us (and sadly people like you) is entitled to his opinion. Freedom of speech. Without that there would have been no "voice" in the first place.

The voice (like any other business) is kept afloat by providing goods, or services, which are needed/wanted by the public. The higher the quality of goods/services, the more demand there will be. And quality was not something that was associated with that rag. That's why no-one bought it, that's why it went under. You can blame it on the recession all you want, you can say what a terrible tragedy it was, but ultimatey there's a reason why the voice is gone and the people is still here. And it's not a pro-people conspiracy.

...We all have...

Dont drag us down to your level. I know what conclusion i've drawn from this, and i drew it from posts #15 and #19. Your little personal jabs at Angus.

Firetrap wrote: »

It's just another paper that's gone up against the might of the Kilkenny People and lost. It seems to be very difficult to get people to change the local newspaper they read.

The kilkenny people isn't some giant, evil corporation.It's in the same market as the voice was. And it's still here, whereas the voice isnt, because it is better.

Yes, it's horrible that 12 people have lost their jobs. No-one is disputing this (no matter what purry is trying to say on our behalf). But it's no more horrible than the 2000 jobs to be lost in the dell plant in limerick. Or the 400 lost in Cork with ispat.
So unless you intend to fight for "the cause" of all those people too,please refrain from using feelings towards unemployment as an argueing tool against angus, nightwish, messiah etc.

Purry Cat

Spoonbadger,

We're not yet into the second week of January, but for self-righteousness and pomposity yours is a post that I suspect won't be beaten all year. Congrats!

Some comments below.

spoonbadger wrote: »

Since when are you the judge/jury/executioner of internet morality?. Angus should not have to admit he was thoughtless. Angus like the rest of us (and sadly people like you) is entitled to his opinion. Freedom of speech. Without that there would have been no "voice" in the first place.

Why is it "sad" that people like me should be entitled to an opinion, pray tell? I never said Angus wasn't entitled to his opinion. I never even said he wasn't entitled to gloat. What I did say was that he shouldn't have gloated, particularly as the closure led to job losses. Sorry for not realising I wasn't allowed do this.


The voice (like any other business) is kept afloat by providing goods, or services, which are needed/wanted by the public. The higher the quality of goods/services, the more demand there will be. And quality was not something that was associated with that rag. That's why no-one bought it, that's why it went under. You can blame it on the recession all you want, you can say what a terrible tragedy it was, but ultimatey there's a reason why the voice is gone and the people is still here. And it's not a pro-people conspiracy.

Spare me the lesson in pseudo-economics. The real reason the Voice went was because the company expanded too far too fast. By the end of 2006 there were two Voices, Kilkenny and Laois. By the end of 2007 there was something like nine Voices all over the country. It was crazy, reckless and shortsighted. Start-up costs far exceeded the money that was coming in. Says a lot about the idiots in charge, doesn't it? That's why the various Voices began to close one by one in 2008, with Kilkenny the last one. The Voice went under not solely - or even largely - because it couldn't support itself but because the other papers in the company dragged it down.



Dont drag us down to your level. I know what conclusion i've drawn from this, and i drew it from posts #15 and #19. Your little personal jabs at Angus.

So what conclusion did you draw from somebody saying that he thought/hoped Angus was joking in saying that the closure of the Voice was "like the best Christmas present ever"? And what conclusion did you draw from somebody else calling Angus "a clown", "a troll" and a 14-year-old? I'd be interested to hear. Do you intend taking up the cudgels against everybody who's dissed poor defenceless Angus here?



The kilkenny people isn't some giant, evil corporation.It's in the same market as the voice was. And it's still here, whereas the voice isnt, because it is better.

Much too simplistic, as I've already shown. Kilkenny people (small p!) will always buy the People because they always have. It's a tradition, a reflex. A rival paper could be much better, which the Voice wasn't (and be a happier place to work in, which the Voice certainly wasn't either - ask any of the younger staff), and it still wouldn't displace the People. Also, because the People is part of a large - if not giant and evil - corporation, it will always have the resources. The People is still here not because of quality but because it's the People - and always will be.

TradMick84

I will miss the voice only for one thing... starting my fire.
'Write on Rhatigan' was possible the worst case of literary scutter i have ever read... more like 'Ride on Rhatigan'!

Firetrap

Steady on! I wasn't saying for one second that the Kilkenny People is evil. I believe competition is good and that people should have a choice of newspapers. I've heard stories of how hard it is to get things printed in the People or to get a photographer to come out and take photos of events and stuff.

Competition is good. It keeps everyone on their toes. As it turns out, the Voice wasn't up to the task (I too agree that it was a rag) but it would be nice to be able to walk into a newsagent on a Wednesday and not have just the Kilkenny People on the rack.

Purry Cat

TradMick84 wrote: »

I will miss the voice only for one thing... starting my fire.
'Write on Rhatigan' was possible the worst case of literary scutter i have ever read... more like 'Ride on Rhatigan'!

Or "****e on, Rhatigan"... Couldn't agree with you more. The great man will be missed only by masochists and/or students of very bad journalism.

sunflower27

The People is still here not because of quality but because it's the People - and always will be.[/quote]

I enjoy reading the People. For a regional paper it's good, compared to others I've seen.

TradMick84

in fairness to the voice though it had a good section of what was going on in kilkenny, as in the events guide... however, thats as far i'm goin in the gratitudes department!
the paper was also very good for stuffing your wet soccer boots to stop them going out of shape.. Nike say that stuffing your boots with a poxy regional newspaper helps them last 10% longer.... staggering

spoonbadger

Purry Cat wrote: »

Spoonbadger,

We're not yet into the second week of January, but for self-righteousness and pomposity yours is a post that I suspect won't be beaten all year. Congrats!

Please dont resort to petty sarcasm. It's not helpful.

Purry Cat wrote: »

Why is it "sad" that people like me should be entitled to an opinion, pray tell? I never said Angus wasn't entitled to his opinion. I never even said he wasn't entitled to gloat. What I did say was that he shouldn't have gloated, particularly as the closure led to job losses. Sorry for not realising I wasn't allowed do this.

It's sad because you've used it to belittle others.

Purry Cat wrote: »

Spare me the lesson in pseudo-economics. The real reason the Voice went was because the company expanded too far too fast. By the end of 2006 there were two Voices, Kilkenny and Laois. By the end of 2007 there was something like nine Voices all over the country. It was crazy, reckless and shortsighted. Start-up costs far exceeded the money that was coming in. Says a lot about the idiots in charge, doesn't it?.

Sorry you're right there actually. That was due to bad business policies but it doesnt mean that there wasnt quality issues too. Take a look at the comments here, or listen to just about anyone in KK. The voice wasn't highly thought of. You yourself have even pointed out jim rhatigan's writing faults .

Purry Cat wrote: »

So what conclusion did you draw from somebody saying that he thought/hoped Angus was joking in saying that the closure of the Voice was "like the best Christmas present ever"? And what conclusion did you draw from somebody else calling Angus "a clown", "a troll" and a 14-year-old? I'd be interested to hear.

I would think that whoever disagreed with the "christmas present" comment needs to learn the meaning of the word exageration. And whoever used the words "clown", "troll" and "14-year-old" needs to get over himself, spend less time on WoW and more in the real world. Anyone can be condescending on an internet forum, rather than make a point. That's pretty low.

Purry Cat wrote: »

Do you intend taking up the cudgels against everybody who's dissed poor defenceless Angus here?

Do you intend to fight for every individual who's lost their job? .

Purry Cat wrote: »

Much too simplistic, as I've already shown.

As you've already shown?.Through your extensive scientific research? .

We should probably end this. We're (me included!) turning this thread into a miny flame war, largely because of one comment. Agree to disagree? .

Purry Cat

Totally! And a big up to you for taking the first step. Am not even sure we disagree all that much about most of what's come up on this thread, you know!

Thanks.