Reason theres so few vegetarians

SAVE_ME.222

I was chatting to my friend yesterday about this (both vegetarians) and we came to the conclusion that we believe the MAIN reason why the vast majority of people are meat-eaters is because they don't think, nor do they have to think (because of factory farming/marketing/etc of meat). I'm only vegetarian 3 years now and this was definitely the reason why I ate meat for so long.

Before that I was wandering into KFC, enjoying a bucket of chicken/etc and the thought never even entered my mind how this chicken died, if it was cruelly treated, etc. Same idea regarding health issues, (this might be a controversial opinion, but statistically vegetarians don't get certain types of cancer and other illnesses as much).

Then one day I started to question things, and after finding out as much info as possible at the time I made the decision and have never looked back.

Ignorance is bliss as they say.

Edit - I have full respect for the people who know exactly how animals are treated, how they die, the risks involved in eating meat, etc and still make the conscious decision to eat meat. It's the ones who don't think I'm talking about here.

Tar.Aldarion

It was the ame for me as a child. Why question what the yum food your parents giving you is? When I thought about what it was and could cook for myself I changed my diet.
Most of my secondary friends are veggie now, as is my sister. I'm only to blame for a few. ;-)

I agree some don't think about it and some do. Some are bothered, some are not.

Nature Boy

Yeah I'd say for a lot of people it's because it's the default choice. I'd say a fair percentage of meat eaters would turn veggie if they actually thought about where their food came from and researched it.

rororoyourboat

I've been doing a lot of thinking on this issue recently, but I've decided to remain a meat-eater. Animal welfare and cruelty would be my main reason to turn vegetarian, but I just feel the problem of cruelty etc is just too big for me to stop by going veggie.

Just reading the thread about all of the various products that contain meat was eye-opening - it seems like their are animal products in almost everything!

If I were to stop eating meat, I still think that I'd be causing harm to animals with the rest of my lifestyle.

Instead, I try to keep myself as well-informed as possible about the law on animal welfare and the policies of KFC/McDonalds etc.

Whispered

At least you thought about it. Most people don't. My view however would be that while I don't help much by being veggie, I am not contributing to it as much as I would be if I was eating meat.

I also find that as a veggie, people often ask why, if they do I will tell them, hopefully making them more aware of their own choices.

SAVE_ME.222

rororoyourboat wrote: »

I've been doing a lot of thinking on this issue recently, but I've decided to remain a meat-eater. Animal welfare and cruelty would be my main reason to turn vegetarian, but I just feel the problem of cruelty etc is just too big for me to stop by going veggie.

If everyone thought like that, there's zero chance of the cruelty ever ending. Fair play to you for considering the welfare of the animals you are eating. Bt you alone stopping eating meat wouldn't completely eliminate the problem, at least you would be standing up for something you believe in. There's far too many people around without an ounce of courage in them (not directed at you).

sweet-rasmus

SAVE_ME.222 wrote: »

Bt you alone stopping eating meat wouldn't completely eliminate the problem, at least you would be standing up for something you believe in.

I agree here. But at least you are well informed and make the educated choice. I hope that includes eating free-range!

tman

I'm not a veggie, but have been considering giving up meat quite a bit recently. I make sure to only buy free range/organic/humane products, and have always felt a pang of guilt whenever I eat meat, especially off the bone. (at least if you're eating a nondescript lump of meat, it's hard to imagine it being alive...)

The only thing stopping me is the pure convenience of meat... I find it hard enough to plan out my meals as it is, but if you took meat out of the equation I'd be totally lost.

Nature Boy

tman wrote: »

The only thing stopping me is the pure convenience of meat... I find it hard enough to plan out my meals as it is, but if you took meat out of the equation I'd be totally lost.

Have you tried replacing meat with fake meats like Quorn? It might sound horrible but a lot of them are quite nice.

sweet-rasmus

yes, meat subsitutes are awfully easy to prepare. Check out http://www.quorn.co.uk/CMSPage.aspx?ssbid=2 and http://www.frys-special.com/Prod_Select.asp There is a Tesco range and a Dunnes range which are easily obtainable also.

But with a little thought, cooking a meal will be easy. In fact, you will enjoy it! Go on, give it a shot. And come bak to us if you need meal ideas or advice!

the_syco

Nature Boy wrote: »

Yeah I'd say for a lot of people it's because it's the default choice. I'd say a fair percentage of meat eaters would turn veggie if they actually thought about where their food came from and researched it.

Eh... I love meat. I don't really care how the meat is treated before it becomes meat. I prefer the meat to eat grass, as it tastes nicer when it appears on my plate, but meh. I could live off meat, but I prefer a mix of meat, veg, and dairy products. I couldn't live off veg.

I'd say many people have an idea on how the animals are treated, but put it in the back of their minds when eating it, as it's easier to stay healthy by having a healthy mix of meat and veg, as opposed to a lot of veg.

I am aware, that if I were to only eat veg, I'd have to eat a larger range of veg, to keep healthy. But I see it easier to eat meat and some veg to stay healthy, than to eat a large amount of veg.

projectmayhem

Nature Boy wrote: »

I'd say a fair percentage of meat eaters would turn veggie if they actually thought about where their food came from and researched it.

I'd say a fair percentage of meat eaters would completely disagree with the sentiment of the veggies in this here thread.

I know where my food came from. I know how animals are slaughtered. I know it's horrific and in-humane. But dear god, it tastes good... and is good for you (mostly).

Quorn and other fake meats have their qualities, but aren't actually as tastey as the meat itself. You can go 'round in circles about the rights of animals etc. but in reality this is the way the world works, and it's always worked this way.

The suggestion that because I eat meat means I don't "think" is absurd. It's worth pointing out that my girlfriend is a veggie, so I know how "the other side" lives (or eats).

Maybe there'd be more vegetarians if the vegetarians out there didn't make statements about meat-eaters not "thinking" or being "ignorant" and trying to push vegetarianism onto others. I've nothing against veggies. I could easily survive on the veggie stuff my girlfriend cooks all the time. Most of it is tastier then the crap I have most of the time anyway. But you'll never beat a well-cooked chicken or beef-based meal.. ever.

seanybiker

If we where not supposed to eat animals why are they made out of food.
Seriously though, it doesnt bother me where it comes from. I'd still eat it anyways. Had me some feed of sausages when everyone was throwing them out a few weeks ago. Feck it sure tis only a bit of mad stuff in the meat. Still tasted the same.
I wouldnt be a big meat eater or a veggie eater. I only eat spuds and sausages or eggs and chips. Thats basically my full diet. Apart from when I treat meself to a pizza. No wonder Im so unhealthy.

sweet-rasmus

projectmayhem wrote: »

Quorn and other fake meats have their qualities, but aren't actually as tastey as the meat itself.

They were only suggested because it can be a good start for someone who wants to be veggie but is not the best cook. It can help the transition. I know that some people haven't a notion when it comes to cooking anything but meat and two veg.

and is good for you (mostly)

eh. have a read of
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055367439

The suggestion that because I eat meat means I don't "think" is absurd

...read the first post again

why the vast majority of people are meat-eaters is because they don't think

Not aimed at everyone. So presume you aren't included in this sub category. Clearly you've thought about it.

If we where not supposed to eat animals why are they made out of food.

Happy to eat your cat/kitten/dog/puppy are you?

who007

sweet-rasmus wrote: »

yes, meat subsitutes are awfully easy to prepare. Check out http://www.quorn.co.uk/CMSPage.aspx?ssbid=2 and http://www.frys-special.com/Prod_Select.asp There is a Tesco range and a Dunnes range which are easily obtainable also.

But with a little thought, cooking a meal will be easy. In fact, you will enjoy it! Go on, give it a shot. And come bak to us if you need meal ideas or advice!

where can yuo buy that frys stuff? and thanks for the quorn recipe link - some great lookin stuff there!

who007

seanybiker wrote: »

If we where not supposed to eat animals why are they made out of food.
Seriously though, it doesnt bother me where it comes from. I'd still eat it anyways. Had me some feed of sausages when everyone was throwing them out a few weeks ago. Feck it sure tis only a bit of mad stuff in the meat. Still tasted the same.
I wouldnt be a big meat eater or a veggie eater. I only eat spuds and sausages or eggs and chips. Thats basically my full diet. Apart from when I treat meself to a pizza. No wonder Im so unhealthy.

wow - what do you weigh??

SAVE_ME.222

projectmayhem wrote: »

but in reality this is the way the world works, and it's always worked this way.

This is completely false. For a start, elephants, gorillas, giraffes, rhinos, etc are all vegetarian and survive just fine. Our species only started eating meat when fire was discovered. We would get very sick or else die if we regularly ate raw meat. This point was covered very well by a previous poster:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57676632&postcount=40

Inglorious

projectmayhem wrote:

in reality this is the way the world works, and it's always worked this way.

This argument always irks me. I fail to see why, just because something has been done throughout history, it is valid and should be continued. History is full of customs which were perfectly acceptable at the time but would be considered barbaric by modern standards.

projectmayhem wrote:

Maybe there'd be more vegetarians if the vegetarians out there didn't make statements about meat-eaters not "thinking" or being "ignorant" and trying to push vegetarianism onto others.

Errr... how is anyone here trying to push vegetarianism on others? This is the vegetarian forum... just about everyone who posts here would already be vegetarian/vegan or at least considering it. It's not like this topic was posted in AH or something.
If anything, you're the one attempting to "push" your views upon people.

sweet-rasmus

who007 wrote: »

where can yuo buy that frys stuff? and thanks for the quorn recipe link - some great lookin stuff there!

I've seen a good range in Nourish on Wicklow St (Dublin City Centre) or the Health Store some times have the odd product (see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58284595&postcount=3 for list of stores). Not sure where you are but they are Dublin places. If Galway city, the Evergreen beside Tesco has a big range. Otherwise your local healthfood store (preferably with a freezer compartment) should be able to order them in for you.

sweet-rasmus

Inglorious wrote: »

Errr... how is anyone here trying to push vegetarianism on others? This is the vegetarian forum... just about everyone who posts here would already be vegetarian/vegan or at least considering it. It's not like this topic was posted in AH or something.
If anything, you're the one attempting to "push" your views upon people.

Exactly! You've said it all

projectmayhem

SAVE_ME.222 wrote: »

This is completely false. For a start, elephants, gorillas, giraffes, rhinos, etc are all vegetarian and survive just fine. Our species only started eating meat when fire was discovered.

Point taken, but I'm a human, and have been raised to eat meat my entire life. I don't JUST eat meat, but it would remain a huge portion of my diet.

SAVE_ME.222 wrote: »

We would get very sick or else die if we regularly ate raw meat.

If it's prepared right you can eat raw meat... just ask Japanese people. I have had raw chicken and raw ham from a Japanese restaurant before. Disgusting, but I'm still alive.... but sure that's beside the point.

Inglorious wrote: »

This argument always irks me. I fail to see why, just because something has been done throughout history, it is valid and should be continued. History is full of customs which were perfectly acceptable at the time but would be considered barbaric by modern standards.

Are you saying that eating meat is barbaric? I don't necessarily agree with the article, but read this. A quick google search will bring up more similar ideas that walk all over vegetarianism (not as a diet, but as a conscious decision to not eat animals for the sake of their rights)...

seanybiker wrote: »

If we where not supposed to eat animals why are they made out of food.

This line had me in stitches...

seanybiker wrote: »

I wouldnt be a big meat eater or a veggie eater. I only eat spuds and sausages or eggs and chips. Thats basically my full diet. Apart from when I treat meself to a pizza. No wonder Im so unhealthy.

You're missing out on some amazing foods mate. Not just the meat stuff, even veggie stuff needs some exploration. Veggie stir-fry is to die for. Make it meaty with some chopped up chicken breast... mmmm

SAVE_ME.222

projectmayhem wrote: »

If it's prepared right you can eat raw meat...

:rolleyes:

more similar ideas that walk all over vegetarianism

That article did no such thing, you cannot compare the once-off killing of animals in their natural habitat to the on-going torture that is factory farming.

TheBigLebowski

projectmayhem wrote: »

Are you saying that eating meat is barbaric? I don't necessarily agree with the article, but read this. A quick google search will bring up more similar ideas that walk all over vegetarianism (not as a diet, but as a conscious decision to not eat animals for the sake of their rights)...

That link is complete nonsense for too many reasons to go into....

vibe666

people eat meat because it's tasty (and made of food, as was already pointed out).

i know where my food comes from, how it lived and how it died (i watch all the documentaries on that kind of thing) and make point of not eating anything i wouldn't be willing to kill myself. i feel that if you're willing to eat an animal you should be willing to kill it and (having grown up in the country) I have killed chickens and rabbits in the past that i've eaten and whilst I've never killed a pig or a cow i've no doubt in my mind that I could if necessary.

animals are tasty and i'll continue to enjoy eating them as long as i live. can't imagine a life without meat, it's just not natural. every time i see any kind of vegetarian dish i can't help but think it would taste better with meat in it.

i like the name 'meatatarian'.

if i was at a bbq the only non-meat that would be eaten would be a burger bun and maybe some onions. meat is just far too tasty not to eat it. if god hadn't meant us to eat animals he wouldn't have made them out of meat.

SAVE_ME.222

vibe666 wrote: »

can't imagine a life without meat, it's just not natural.

I could argue the opposite, it's not natural for humans to consume meat. Reasons behind this argument: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57676632&postcount=40 If you are going to make a statement like vegetarianism is not natural, at least back it up with a point.

i like the name 'meatatarian'.

Aren't ya great. The correct term is omnivore.

if i was at a bbq the only non-meat that would be eaten would be a burger bun and maybe some onions.

Yeah because all we eat are meat-dishes without the meat :rolleyes:

Macha

vibe666 wrote: »

i know where my food comes from, how it lived and how it died (i watch all the documentaries on that kind of thing) and make point of not eating anything i wouldn't be willing to kill myself. i feel that if you're willing to eat an animal you should be willing to kill it and (having grown up in the country) I have killed chickens and rabbits in the past that i've eaten and whilst I've never killed a pig or a cow i've no doubt in my mind that I could if necessary.

It isn't just about how the animal is killed but also the living conditions of the animal before it's killed.

You really think that watching a documentary on TV gives you complete knowledge and understanding of the specific conditions under which those Tesco chicken fillets were produced?

From what I can see here, the reasons people give for eating meat are
a) they like it and
b) it's edible (ie it's food)

Fair enough - but then we move onto the questions of animal welfare and, if you want to look at it from a selfish point of view, quality. Not to mention sustainability and other environmental factors.

As it stands, consumers aren't required to ask these questions and so they don't. Until such time as consumer are forced to be fully aware of where their meat and fish comes from and the true costs (social, environmental etc) are internalised in the price, the status quo will continue. Meat is far too cheap and those who don't eat meat essentially subsidise meat eaters.

brianthebard

SAVE_ME.222 wrote: »

:rolleyes:



That article did no such thing, you cannot compare the once-off killing of animals in their natural habitat to the on-going torture that is factory farming.

oh rolleyes, so many uses. The same rolleyes could be applied to veg, potatoes are poisonous when raw for example. They have to be prepared correctly, just like the raw meat example.

Gauge

brianthebard wrote: »

potatoes are poisonous when raw for example. They have to be prepared correctly, just like the raw meat example.

What are you talking about? Plenty of people eat potato raw. In China it's quite common, and there are a fair few salad recipes that have raw potato as an ingredient.

Tar.Aldarion

It can contain toxicity. It is most not int he potato itself, moreso the plant. However exposure to light, damage, age can cause more toxicity in a potato. They will go green in areas of high toxicity. You have to cook over 170/80 degrees or something to partly destroy the 'badness' so boiled potatoes are the same as raw healthwise I think. Yes, a lot of poeple eat them raw, and in huge amounts. I think you can go into comas and die from the substance in potato/tomato/tobacco etc plants. But well, how many potatoes would you need to eat?

raah!

SAVE_ME.222 wrote: »

I was chatting to my friend yesterday about this (both vegetarians) and we came to the conclusion that we believe the MAIN reason why the vast majority of people are meat-eaters is because they don't think, nor do they have to think (because of factory farming/marketing/etc of meat). I'm only vegetarian 3 years now and this was definitely the reason why I ate meat for so long.

Before that I was wandering into KFC, enjoying a bucket of chicken/etc and the thought never even entered my mind how this chicken died, if it was cruelly treated, etc. Same idea regarding health issues, (this might be a controversial opinion, but statistically vegetarians don't get certain types of cancer and other illnesses as much).

Then one day I started to question things, and after finding out as much info as possible at the time I made the decision and have never looked back.

Ignorance is bliss as they say.

Edit - I have full respect for the people who know exactly how animals are treated, how they die, the risks involved in eating meat, etc and still make the conscious decision to eat meat. It's the ones who don't think I'm talking about here.

I don't think this is a very good way of thinking. Sure it's easy to imagine that your social sub-group is intellectualy superior and extra individual with respect to everyone else, but it's a bit silly to do so, and childish.

I think the reason many people are "ignorant" of how meat is prepared , etc, is that they don't care, they don't care enough to find out. If they did find out, they wouldn't care. And I don't think vegetarianism is really compatible with the consumerism and nihilism which are fashionable today. And since many vegetarians see themselves as fancy freethinkers of those categories, perhaps it is they who do not do enough thinking.

Even those who have considered every possibility, and every idea about vegetarianisme, I don't think they think more than regular people, they just think about different things.

Joe Public

Do "vegetarians" who have concern for cruelty to animals also decline from purchasing products containing leather?

SeekUp

tman wrote: »

The only thing stopping me is the pure convenience of meat...

I think this is dead on.

Just as a bit of background, I stopped eating beef and pork about nine years ago, and started buying free range chicken and sustainably caught/raised seafood about six years ago (my issue is purely with the treatment of animals, not that eating meat itself is wrong -- although I still can't bring myself to eat beef or pork!).

I think it would be so much easier - and cheaper - to just go to the market and pick up some meat. Any meat. Who cares from where. I'd love to be able to go to the store and buy some toothpaste that was tested on animals rather than paying more for a kind that doesn't and having to search for a place that sells it. I'd love to pop into McDonald's for a fish sandwich but alas . . . I read Fast Food Nation! And on and on and on.

It just takes a bit more effort, and I think most people - even when faced with the facts about factory farms, etc. - will just make the easier choice. And did I mention the difference in price?

*shrug*

Inglorious

Joe Public wrote: »

Do "vegetarians" who have concern for cruelty to animals also decline from purchasing products containing leather?

Most do.
It'd be somewhat hypocritical if they didn't.

Sangre

If everyone suddenly became vegetarians our global economy would be even more ****ed.

Me? I just love the taste and benefits of animal products. Red meat, white meat, fish, fish oils, eggs, milk, leather, wool etc., My diet and palate would be a lot more boring without them. The abstract concept of animals dying and being harmed doesn't really outweigh my desire to use these products.

vibe666

SAVE_ME.222 wrote: »

Aren't ya great. The correct term is omnivore.

Yeah because all we eat are meat-dishes without the meat :rolleyes:

i've changed my mind. the reason there are so few vegetarians is because of their lack of a sense of humour. :rolleyes:

and NO, I AM a meatatarian thanks very much.

taconnol wrote: »

It isn't just about how the animal is killed but also the living conditions of the animal before it's killed.

You really think that watching a documentary on TV gives you complete knowledge and understanding of the specific conditions under which those Tesco chicken fillets were produced?

I don't eat intensively farmed meat, it just doesn't taste nearly as nice, but it has a lot more to do with flavour than welfare. wouldn't it be a little hypocritical to be all luvvy dovey with your food and THEN kill and eviscerate it?

taconnol wrote: »

As it stands, consumers aren't required to ask these questions and so they don't. Until such time as consumer are forced to be fully aware of where their meat and fish comes from and the true costs (social, environmental etc) are internalised in the price, the status quo will continue. Meat is far too cheap and those who don't eat meat essentially subsidise meat eaters.

there are just as many subsidies for crop farmers and since I don't eat much in the way of veg, I'm subsidising you, but you don't hear me moaning about that. that's the whole point of society, everyone subsidising everyone else in the areas they are deficient in so that the society as a whole survives.

Gauge wrote: »

What are you talking about? Plenty of people eat potato raw. In China it's quite common, and there are a fair few salad recipes that have raw potato as an ingredient.

plenty of people eat raw meat too. steak tartar is a good and very tasty example, but I've eaten raw bacon and beef plenty of times as well as heaps of sushi and it's never caused me any problems.

Sangre wrote: »

If everyone suddenly became vegetarians our global economy would be even more ****ed.

royally. aside from anything, where would we put all those spare cows, pigs, sheep and chickens? left to roam free they'd take over the world and enslave us.

Sangre wrote: »

Me? I just love the taste and benefits of animal products. Red meat, white meat, fish, fish oils, eggs, milk, leather, wool etc., My diet and palate would be a lot more boring without them.

dude, you're not supposed to eat leather. or wool for that matter.

Sangre wrote: »

The abstract concept of animals dying and being harmed doesn't really outweigh my desire to use these products.

there you go, nail > head situation right there. it's a simple equation of how tasty my food is versus how much i care about it's suffering. whilst it's tastiness outweighs how i (and the rest of us meatatarians) feel about it's suffering, it's still going to get eaten, simple as that.

rockbeer

Joe Public wrote: »

Do "vegetarians" who have concern for cruelty to animals also decline from purchasing products containing leather?

Your point being what, exactly? That if you can't be perfect you may as well do nothing?

By that logic anyone who gives to charity, in order not to be labelled a hypocrite, should sell off all their possessions, give the proceeds to the poor and then kill themselves before they spend any more money.

SAVE_ME.222

The abstract concept of animals dying and being harmed doesn't really outweigh my desire to use these products.

Well it does for vegetarians/vegans. Just because you don't know the details behind something, doesn't mean it's not occuring and that you are not directly contributing towards it. The very fact that the concept is 'abstract' to you means the meat producers marketing/advertising/truth-hiding/etc has worked on you.

Climate Expert

SAVE_ME.222 wrote: »

I was chatting to my friend yesterday about this (both vegetarians) and we came to the conclusion that we believe the MAIN reason why the vast majority of people are meat-eaters is because they don't think, nor do they have to think (because of factory farming/marketing/etc of meat). I'm only vegetarian 3 years now and this was definitely the reason why I ate meat for so long.

Before that I was wandering into KFC, enjoying a bucket of chicken/etc and the thought never even entered my mind how this chicken died, if it was cruelly treated, etc. Same idea regarding health issues, (this might be a controversial opinion, but statistically vegetarians don't get certain types of cancer and other illnesses as much).

Then one day I started to question things, and after finding out as much info as possible at the time I made the decision and have never looked back.

Ignorance is bliss as they say.

Edit - I have full respect for the people who know exactly how animals are treated, how they die, the risks involved in eating meat, etc and still make the conscious decision to eat meat. It's the ones who don't think I'm talking about here.

The real reaons

1. Vegetables lack nutritional value so are bodies have evolved to like the taste of calorie dense meats instead.

Thats why vegetables taste disgusting and so few people eat them exclusively. Vegetarians are unnatural and have issues.

zeris

Climate Expert wrote: »

The real reaons
1. Vegetables lack nutritional value so are bodies have evolved to like the taste of calorie dense meats instead.

However, in our agrarian society this point is moot.

Tomk1

I use to be vegi 17yrs, then more fish/chicken & some meat. I suffered from IBS for about 7 years, the past year has been good. I started reading a book "Eat 4 your type" which says that different foods are better for different blood types. As an O-type turns out to be the hunter, so beef is best, but pork/ham not, fish ok. Now I know all the "You should eat this" blah blah, but biology is a science, the fuel for our body can be like petrol or diesel. I know that some foods I was told was good, but my body reacted sluggish or almost more effort to breakdown that not eating was much better.

It turns out that for O-type dairy n’ wheat products causes inflammation of the intestines, also ulcers as the O-type stomach acid is more efficient in breaking down red meat.

Potato is only a new food in Ireland 100-200 years compared to 10,000 years, but for some blood types high carb is best. Put it simple eat high energy food in small amounts or a trough of pulp, say a steak or 1,000 pears depending on your engine. How can generations of a blood type be expected to adjust to a complete alien diet.

Just have a look at the book forget politics, ideals are great but not at the determent to health, fine some blood types are better adjusted to wheat and grain, others are not.

You are what you eat, Eat for what you are. "Rhino steak.....hmmmm"

Climate Expert

zeris wrote: »

However, in our agrarian society this point is moot.

So why don't we just do away with sex then, now that we can just use artificial insemination. Because are nature tells us its good.

Tar.Aldarion

Climate Expert wrote: »

The real reaons

1. Vegetables lack nutritional value so are bodies have evolved to like the taste of calorie dense meats instead.

Thats why vegetables taste disgusting and so few people eat them exclusively. Vegetarians are unnatural and have issues.

Another ban for you.

zeris

zeris wrote: »

However, in our agrarian society this point is moot.

Climate Expert wrote: »

So why don't we just do away with sex then, now that we can just use artificial insemination. Because are nature tells us its good.

One presumes you eat meat for reasons other than its density of calories relative to vegetables. I am saying that eating meat for this reason is moot. You are no longer a hunter-gatherer.

I wonder what Freud would say about you equating eating meat to sex?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Can we make a "Meat eaters" forum please? Though I suppose every forum is a meat eaters forum really. A "Meat fanatics/omnivores who take vegetarianism as a personal attack forum perhaps"?
Anyways, the reason most people don't follow a veggie diet
1.They haven't thought about it but would care if they did
2.They have thought about it, but don't care. Such people do exist (:eek:)

Macha

vibe666 wrote: »

I don't eat intensively farmed meat, it just doesn't taste nearly as nice, but it has a lot more to do with flavour than welfare. wouldn't it be a little hypocritical to be all luvvy dovey with your food and THEN kill and eviscerate it?

Well at least you're being honest about your egotistic reasons for not buying intensively farmed meat. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to treat animals properly and with respect before killing them and eating them (sorry I know ye veggies will disagree with me on this and that's absolutely fine)

vibe666 wrote: »

there are just as many subsidies for crop farmers and since I don't eat much in the way of veg, I'm subsidising you, but you don't hear me moaning about that. that's the whole point of society, everyone subsidising everyone else in the areas they are deficient in so that the society as a whole survives.

Do you have stats to show how much subsidies go to meat vs crops? I have seen those stats and meat is hugely subsidised. The redistribution of wealth through taxation is totally different to the subsidies given to farmers. We are causing huge health and environmental problems through the over supply of cheap meat and you think that this is beneficial to society??

Joe Public

rockbeer wrote: »

Your point being what, exactly? That if you can't be perfect you may as well do nothing?

By that logic anyone who gives to charity, in order not to be labelled a hypocrite, should sell off all their possessions, give the proceeds to the poor and then kill themselves before they spend any more money.

Not a balanced analogy, it's a bit off the wall to say the least.

I'm just curious and trying to understand if there is a standard "vegetarian" or how many versions there are. Some don't eat meat and some don't eat meat or dairy products and say it is for health reasons. Some are concerned for the welfare of animals and some say there are too many animals on earth and are speeding up its destruction.
There's probably other issues and various combinations depending on the type of "vegetarian". If I'm in conversation with a vegetarian is it ok to say "what type of vegetarian are you?"

Slaphead07

Joe Public wrote: »

If I'm in conversation with a vegetarian is it ok to say "what type of vegetarian are you?"

As long as it's out of a genuine interest and not just to start an argument.
Why are you surprised there's different types of vegetarians? Are there not many different types of meat-eaters?

vibe666

taconnol wrote: »

Well at least you're being honest about your egotistic reasons for not buying intensively farmed meat.

lol, where did you pull that from? nothing to do with ego, i just like my food to taste as good as possible.

taconnol wrote: »

Do you have stats to show how much subsidies go to meat vs crops? I have seen those stats and meat is hugely subsidised.

care to share them with the class then so we can all see?

taconnol wrote: »

The redistribution of wealth through taxation is totally different to the subsidies given to farmers. We are causing huge health and environmental problems through the over supply of cheap meat and you think that this is beneficial to society??

and how is it different than the cheap crappy vegetables and crops we get via the very same avenues?

it's all about supply and demand. certain amounts of food has to be grown (animal and vegetable) and it can't be achieved if it's all grown organically with hippies dancing round it singing.

intensive farming is very necessary for a lot of poeple to survive, it's pretty simple economics.

i'm lucky to be earning enough that i can afford to eat well, but as shown on several of these battery v's organic documentaries recently, plenty of people can only survive because of cheap food.

Sangre

SAVE_ME.222 wrote: »

Well it does for vegetarians/vegans. Just because you don't know the details behind something, doesn't mean it's not occuring and that you are not directly contributing towards it. The very fact that the concept is 'abstract' to you means the meat producers marketing/advertising/truth-hiding/etc has worked on you.

Of course it does, that's why they are vegetarians. I know how animals are reared and killed, however I don't see it every day so its never in the front of my mind. When I'm about to eat some delicious steak, eggs or fish the last thing in my mind is the animals suffering. Suffering in general is the last thing on my mind, I don't want to turn myself into a maniac depressive.

Being a veggie/vegan also makes it much more awkward to get protein in for weight lifting.

Oh and the meat industry truth hiding conspiracy has been working well. Guess they've been practising since the dawn of civilisation.

vibe666

i'm perfectly aware of how meat is produced and how animals used for food are killed, in fact I'd have no problem doing it myself and as I've already said, I've killed rabbits and chickens and eaten them afterwards and have no problem with that either.

it's just the natural order of things, same as any other animal killing another animal for food, why would it bother me?

something like fox hunting would bother me, or dog/cock fighting where animals are killed for nothing more than fun, but that's not what we're talking about.

rockbeer

Joe Public wrote: »

Not a balanced analogy, it's a bit off the wall to say the least.

Perhaps you could explain where you think it falls down rather than just offering this uninformative dismissal.

You might or might not be surprised by how often the accusation is leveled at vegetarians that they are hypocrites whose dietary choices are utterly invalidated by the death of a single insect during the food production cycle. Vegetarians are routinely expected to maintain standards of purity and consistency demanded of almost no one else. This kind of argument gets old pretty quickly.

Joe Public wrote: »

I'm just curious and trying to understand if there is a standard "vegetarian" or how many versions there are. Some don't eat meat and some don't eat meat or dairy products and say it is for health reasons. Some are concerned for the welfare of animals and some say there are too many animals on earth and are speeding up its destruction.
There's probably other issues and various combinations depending on the type of "vegetarian". If I'm in conversation with a vegetarian is it ok to say "what type of vegetarian are you?"

There are probably as many 'versions' of a vegetarian as there are vegetarians. It's one of those convenient but often uninformative labels - just one of the reasons why I dislike and prefer not to use it.