Disparity in Murder sentences - Ireland -v- U.K.

Abraham

Across the water in the UK, a murder sentence is usually met with a sentence of 15 or more years and it can be anything between 15 and 30 years with 'Her Majesty's Pleasure' hovering somewhere in the background during the third decade and which might then allow a release. Just read the verdict in today's murder case in the UK in the Rhys Jones murder case for an account of how murder conviction sentences are handles over there. The judge has explained in detail the background to the management of the sentence.

Now my question is this. How come murder case convictions here although labelled as life imprisonment usually only amount to 7 or 8 years imprisonment.
Is this bizarre or what logic would explain it ?
Why does murder carry twice the sentence in the UK ?

Victor

Life sentences tend to be more like 12-14 years served here and there are example of well over 20 years.

johnnyskeleton

Life means life in Ireland. Being released on licence is not a right, and doesn't happen automatically or in every case.

As Victor points out, the last minister for justice had a policy of not releasing anybody before 12 years.

Feel free to do some research on www.justice.ie and post again, but in general terms I would be in favour of adopting a UK style discretion for judges to specify a minimum period to be served, up to and including "until the end of your natural life".

EDIT: There's even a thread on the first page of the forum that would have answered your question: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055165353

Our man in Havana

If a lifer does not apply for release after 15 to 20 years would he be release eventually or would he be allowed to die in prison?

Abraham

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Life means life in Ireland. Being released on licence is not a right, and doesn't happen automatically or in every case.

As Victor points out, the last minister for justice had a policy of not releasing anybody before 12 years.

Feel free to do some research on www.justice.ie and post again, but in general terms I would be in favour of adopting a UK style discretion for judges to specify a minimum period to be served, up to and including "until the end of your natural life".

EDIT: There's even a thread on the first page of the forum that would have answered your question: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055165353

JohnnySkelton
I see what you say and have as you suggested looked up the references.
The Wikipaedia reference would I dare to suggest be read by most Irish people as classically semantic. Hope I am being true to Wiki when I summmarise it thus: "Life imprisonment in Ireland means life but much of the sentence may not be served in custody" Seems what is meant is that the passing of the life sentence means it is "carried for life". Well now I think we could stay on the roundabout all day long on that one. I'd be interested to hear other people's views but first pl do read the Wiki entry on "life sentences/imprisonment in Ireland" because it really does deserve to be considered in regard to my original post. IMO - it smacks of political speak and little else but it would be good to hear other viewpoints.
Tks for the ref JohnnySkelton.

So I'll return to my original query.
I need to generalise to some extent to place my query where I wish it to be so here goes. Yes, there is a small number of people who have and are serving more than 10 years for murder but this group appears to me to form about 10% of that group. But the plain truth is that the vast bulk of people who are sentenced to 'life' do in effect serve less than 10 years.

Now I'm still wondering why 90% or so of our convicted murderers in real terms serve a term of imprisonment that is about half of what murderers serve in the UK.

Seems to me we have lifers (90%) and long lifers (10%).
Think Yellow Line(s) and car parking, etc.
How very Irish of us as the Brits would say.

johnnyskeleton

Abraham wrote: »

So I'll return to my original query.
I need to generalise to some extent to place my query where I wish it to be so here goes. Yes, there is a small number of people who have and are serving more than 10 years for murder but this group appears to me to form about 10% of that group. But the plain truth is that the vast bulk of people who are sentenced to 'life' do in effect serve less than 10 years.

Now I'm still wondering why 90% or so of our convicted murderers in real terms serve a term of imprisonment that is about half of what murderers serve in the UK.

Seems to me we have lifers (90%) and long lifers (10%).
Think Yellow Line(s) and car parking, etc.
How very Irish of us as the Brits would say.

You're just making up the facts. I wouldn't expect you to believe what I say, but you should listen to Victor.

If you had a link that showed that it is only a small number of people serving more than 10 years, you might have a point but you haven't.

johnnyskeleton

Bond-007 wrote: »

If a lifer does not apply for release after 15 to 20 years would he be release eventually or would he be allowed to die in prison?

Sorry no one answered in the last thread!

AFAIK, they don't apply for parole as such, but their case comes up for review by the parole board after 7 years and is then subsequently reviewed.

The reason why people are released on licence is not for their benefit, but for the benefit of the overcrowded prison system.

Abraham

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

You're just making up the facts.

Not so sure what you mean by above quote.
Facts don't need to be made up and if made up then they are not facts.

I'm putting forward a view stated in general terms and inviting responses. My view may be shown to be entirely wrong and that's acceptable without question if some well informed responses are advanced. There's plenty of room for discussion around what I'm saying tho', isn't there ?
But my basic premise that life imprisonment as pronounced by the sentencing judge is not 'life' per se may still be correct.