Homeless little boy in Dublin City...

Rodent Queen

Im not sure if I should post this in the "personal issues" thread...but I guess its an issue to me making it personal...Anyways.

I don't know if anyone has noticed this homeless little boy in Dublin city...Id say hes about 9 or 10 and Ive been seeing him on the streets the past two years now...Every day I see him he gets weaker and weaker...its so horrible. Hes always on Henry Street most of the time and he used to sing for money. It obviously has to be one of those abuse cases where hes forced to go out and beg...Or that he has no one left.

Does anyone know the boy I'm talking about? Hes really really really sickingly thin,messy light brown hair and he has freckles. Im certain that hes dying....Unless he already has because I haven t seen him around lately.

I want to help him. But how??!! I want to bring him home,but I cant just do that?! where can I bring him before he does die??? God it really really upsets me everytime I think about him...what can I do????

Nevyn

http://www.ispcc.ie/Services/Leanbh.aspx

What is Leanbh?

Leanbh was set up in 1997 to address child begging in Dublin. Leanbh is a 24/7 service for children, young people and parents who are begging or at risk of begging on the streets.


What does Leanbh do?

* Monitors the presence of child begging on the street and Identifies children who beg
* Assesses and responds to child protection risks
* Provides therapeutic intervention on a group and individual basis
* Provides support to children from minority ethnic backgrounds, including the Roma travelling and new communities who are seeking asylum in Ireland
* Offers face to face support, web based support, and telephone support to all clients
* Provides positive parenting programmes
* Provides mentoring support to both parents and children

Who does Leanbh work with?

* Children and young people from the wider Roma and Travelling Community
* Children from new communities seeking asylum in Ireland
* Children who are experiencing social, emotional or behavioural difficulties associated with such transitions
* The service works in partnership with the statutory and other services


Referrals

If you would like to seek support from Leanbh please contact 01 644 7712 for further information.

http://www.ispcc.ie/Services/Leanbh/How-to-access-Leanbh-in-your-area.aspx

How to access Leanbh

* Talk to Gardai on the street or phone the local Garda station

* Contact the ISPCC Leanbh service on 01 644 7712

* Contact the Leanbh 24 hour On Call number at 087 062 5198

* If you have an ongoing concern about a particular child, you can also contact the Health Service Executive (HSE) on 1850 241 850

* Raise the issue of child begging with your local representative or TD


How to help

* Remember giving money does not help to address the long-term issues surrounding child begging

* There are better ways to help these children and their families, which ensures that the reasons behind the begging are addressed

* Always treat those out begging with kindness and respect

* If you want to give, offer some food or a hot drink

jahalpin

Rodent Queen wrote: »

Im not sure if I should post this in the "personal issues" thread...but I guess its an issue to me making it personal...Anyways.

I don't know if anyone has noticed this homeless little boy in Dublin city...Id say hes about 9 or 10 and Ive been seeing him on the streets the past two years now...Every day I see him he gets weaker and weaker...its so horrible. Hes always on Henry Street most of the time and he used to sing for money. It obviously has to be one of those abuse cases where hes forced to go out and beg...Or that he has no one left.

Does anyone know the boy I'm talking about? Hes really really really sickingly thin,messy light brown hair and he has freckles. Im certain that hes dying....Unless he already has because I haven t seen him around lately.

I want to help him. But how??!! I want to bring him home,but I cant just do that?! where can I bring him before he does die??? God it really really upsets me everytime I think about him...what can I do????

He's still alive, I saw him on Henry Street the other day.

I'd say he's a lot more than 9 or 10 as he's been there for at least 5 years, so he's around 15 or 16.

I think he was interviewed by a reporter a few months ago.

Steve.Pseudonym

I know they kid you're talking about and I don't believe he's homeless. I've seen him with his family, as far as I can tell they're travellers and they use all their kids to beg.

ShawnRaven

Steve.Pseudonym wrote: »

I know they kid you're talking about and I don't believe he's homeless. I've seen him with his family, as far as I can tell they're travellers and they use all their kids to beg.

Yeah he's been around for quite a while, it's not just City Centre either, I've often seen him outside the Spar in Fairview at the phone box there as well. I used to work around the corner from there. He's sometimes under the ATM in Stephens Green as well. He moves to different spots whenever the Gardai tell him to shift.

At first your heart goes out to him, then you see him working over everyone day after day, and you begin to feel less and less sorry for him and more sorry for those who bought into his act.

MagicMarker

Well, I guess you could start by giving him some food?

To be fair, if he's a teenager and he's homeless, then it's by choice. He could go into care if he wanted, may not be ideal but probably better than the streets.

JaneyMc

Did he sometimes use to pay the tin whistle? If it's the guy I think you are talking about, he's not homeless, he was a couple of years under me in school . I used to see him getting the bus into town after school to go begging.

Anti

Give him some crack....

No seriously though, all you can do to help is to give him some food and some warm clothes to get him through the winter months. Giving him money is the worst thing you can do as no doubt it will only get to his parents/siblings who will spend it on alcohol and/or drugs.

Its times like this im glad im a heartless arsehole...

Beruthiel

Manties wrote: »

Give him some crack....

Cop in, this isn't After Hours.
B

Lollipops23

is that the same kid that used to sing on grafton street?he had some serious lungs on him!if it is the same kid,he's a member of the travelling community so he does have a home.

i don't agree with not giving him money, unless he's strung out or something.maybe throw him a few euro?

jane86

Is this the kid that sang on the soundtrack to Veronica Geurin? I remember seeing him sing in Temple Bar a few times.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0312549/trivia

30txsbzmcu2k9w

I know the kid the OP is talking about, it's not the same singing chap AFAIK. This guy is completely 100 per cent deathly pale. I saw him outside the BOI on dame street before, everyone kind of gasps when they see him cos it really is walking dead kinda stuff.

Darragh29

Is this the same kid that is always singing "Fields of Athenry" on Grafton Street and is the same kid who sings the lead song in the film about Veronica Guiran?

K_P

I know the kid you're talking about and he's a lot older than 9 or 10. He's usually on Henry Street all right, often looks like he's crying. Don't know much about him other than he was discussed on Liveline a while back. A woman had seen him and like the OP was worried about such a young child being homeless. She got talking to him and offered to buy him food and a coat which he wasn't interested in, he just wanted money.

A guard rang in to say that they were aware of the person, that he was over the age of 18 and was actually living with his family. So I'd agree with other posters - give him some food if you want, but I wouldn't recommend giving him money.

K_P

Darragh29 wrote: »

Is this the same kid that is always singing "Fields of Athenry" on Grafton Street and is the same kid who sings the lead song in the film about Veronica Guiran?

Different guy.

here.from.day.1

Yea I have seen him, mostly down outside Marks and Spencers on Henry St. He gets so much attention from the way he looks, I could never understand how he has not taken any of the help he has been offered.

tbh

K_P wrote: »

I know the kid you're talking about and he's a lot older than 9 or 10. He's usually on Henry Street all right, often looks like he's crying. Don't know much about him other than he was discussed on Liveline a while back. A woman had seen him and like the OP was worried about such a young child being homeless. She got talking to him and offered to buy him food and a coat which he wasn't interested in, he just wanted money.

A guard rang in to say that they were aware of the person, that he was over the age of 18 and was actually living with his family. So I'd agree with other posters - give him some food if you want, but I wouldn't recommend giving him money.

yep -was just going to post this very thing.

Cuddlesworth

here.from.day.1 wrote: »

Yea I have seen him, mostly down outside Marks and Spencers on Henry St. He gets so much attention from the way he looks, I could never understand how he has not taken any of the help he has been offered.

Because he doesn't need it, begging is a very lucrative business if you can con people in the right way.

Frisbee

I know who your talking about.
I felt sorry for him until I saw him walking down Liffey Street at about 9 one night talking on a mobile.
when you see him if you look around there's always a lad a bit down the road watching him (not just going tinfoil hat here, have looked out for this myself).
Im assuming it's his brother or something making sure no-one robs him.

JaneyMc

Ok the guy you are all talking about was definitley in my school, he was in 2nd/3rd year when I was in 6th year, so that makes him around 18ish now. He is a member of the travelling community as someone said before.

Darragh29

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Because he doesn't need it, begging is a very lucrative business if you can con people in the right way.

Maybe its lucrative for his parents but not for him...???

John Mason

Nobody is homeless in Dublin unless they choose to be.

and before all the do gooders start having a go, yes, i have very strong contacts within focus ireland and the simon community.

cowzerp

Give him nothing, rewarding him or his family is only encouraging them, and basically he's thieving by pretending to be homeless, anyone that gives money to beggars are mad, if you feel the need to give something to any beggar give food or clothes or something that he can actually benefit from and not make profit for him or others, even genuine homeless people just spend the money on drink instead of necessitys anyway.

axer

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

Nobody is homeless in Dublin unless they choose to be.

which is often due to mental illness but there's not much you can do about that.

beth-lou

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

Nobody is homeless in Dublin unless they choose to be.

and before all the do gooders start having a go, yes, i have very strong contacts within focus ireland and the simon community.

Unless they choose to be? Most are homeless because of bad choices they've made that makes it near impossible to hold down a job, pay rent, buy food. Some because they are addicts. Some because they come from abusive backrounds and a life on the street was better than living at home. And the rest are suffering from mental illness.

They haven't chosen to be homeless as a lifestyle choice. Rather choices they have made have been bad ones or there were circumstances beyond their control and they have no choice but to be homeless.

Whatever contacts you have in Simon or Focus Ireland really should take you aside and educate you a little further.

D.Q

Frisbee wrote: »

when you see him if you look around there's always a lad a bit down the road watching him (not just going tinfoil hat here, have looked out for this myself).
Im assuming it's his brother or something making sure no-one robs him.

are you serious? for some reason thats made me all paranoid..Im definitely gonna look out for your man next time I see the kid.

as far as Im concerned, giving money to beggars is incredibly stupid. Id say most of them make more money a day than me.

by8auj6csd3ioq

beth-lou wrote: »

.whatever contacts you have in Simon or Focus Ireland really should take you aside and educate you a little further.

+1 most ignorant comment i have seen i bet simon would not agree

LegacyUser

not heartless in any way but i NEVER give money to beggers,i see romanians beggin at cars every day with new babies straped to them,if at every light they made a euro and the lights stop cars 50 times in an hour thats a potential 50euro an hour..2 hours a day would be 100 euro so imagine what a week would pay out,makes me sick to think of them beggin for more when they recieve every payment going!OP dont feel sorry for this boy he doesnt want help he just wants money that wont be spent on anything good!

Varkov

Not your problem to be honest, move on.

Aisling(",)

if its the chap whoose always in a kakhi jacket begging outside arnotts and marks and spencer then he isnt homelss.he lives in a halting site near my estate.hes been begging for years as have other members of his family.hes a drug addict and gets very offensive and aggresive on the bus in and out of town.
if its not the same lad then i hope he gets help

Cuddlesworth

Darragh29 wrote: »

Maybe its lucrative for his parents but not for him...???

I don't think you would find a single under-age kid begging on the street that would not soon not be picked up quickly by both the cops and later social services.

There needs to be made a distinction here. There are homeless people and there are beggars. This young lad is a beggar. He cons people for money because its better for him then working for it.

Proper homeless people are nearly always mentally ill or have a serious addiction. There are loads of facilities for people on hard times in Dublin and the rest of the country, who you nearly always see sleeping rough is the people who can't live in those facilities for the reasons above.

At a choice I give nether anything. I would rather give money to charity that allow people who hit the bottom to climb back up, not to people who have no interest in it.

beth-lou wrote: »

Unless they choose to be?

Most are homeless because of bad choices they've made

I decided to separate those two lines so you could see the hypocrisy of your statement.



To the OP. If you really feel guilty about homeless people, give to charity and allow some people a chance at a new life. But don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of, most are no better then the Nigerians who want your bank details.

John Mason

beth-lou wrote: »

Unless they choose to be? Most are homeless because of bad choices they've made that makes it near impossible to hold down a job, pay rent, buy food. Some because they are addicts. Some because they come from abusive backrounds and a life on the street was better than living at home. And the rest are suffering from mental illness.

They haven't chosen to be homeless as a lifestyle choice. Rather choices they have made have been bad ones or there were circumstances beyond their control and they have no choice but to be homeless.

Whatever contacts you have in Simon or Focus Ireland really should take you aside and educate you a little further.

there is more then enough support and beds in the city. the help is there and it is offered on a nightly bases to the 100 homeless in the city and it is regularly turned.

you really need to educate YOURSELF a little further IMO

John Mason

the 2 organisation have done amazing work in the 3.5 years i have been involved with them and still continue to do it. all i am saying there is so much help and support out there, that there is no reason for people to be on the streets

Nevyn

I suggest that the debate on what consitutes a homeless person be take to humanities please. This thread was started about what to do when a person encounters a child at risk
that is the topic.

Eric Cartman

Rodent Queen wrote: »

Im not sure if I should post this in the "personal issues" thread...but I guess its an issue to me making it personal...Anyways.

I don't know if anyone has noticed this homeless little boy in Dublin city...Id say hes about 9 or 10 and Ive been seeing him on the streets the past two years now...Every day I see him he gets weaker and weaker...its so horrible. Hes always on Henry Street most of the time and he used to sing for money. It obviously has to be one of those abuse cases where hes forced to go out and beg...Or that he has no one left.

Does anyone know the boy I'm talking about? Hes really really really sickingly thin,messy light brown hair and he has freckles. Im certain that hes dying....Unless he already has because I haven t seen him around lately.

I want to help him. But how??!! I want to bring him home,but I cant just do that?! where can I bring him before he does die??? God it really really upsets me everytime I think about him...what can I do????

the little kid with kind of reddy brown hair and a lot of frecles who sings old irish songs and ocaasioanlly plays the tin whistle, he has a home, and is a constant problem for shops

Meridius

If you do not want to see this boy begging on the streets, consider what action you can take to break the cycle of begging. For example, if you give him money, how and to what extent does this help him? Conversely, could it be that giving him money actually perpetuates the situation he is in?

Leanbh are a group within the ISPCC who address the issue of child begging in Dublin city. They work to support and engage with children and their families, offering positive alternatives to begging such as organised activities, assisting them in returning to school etc.
Should you wish to make positive counter action in this regard they suggest the following to begin with-

-Always treat those out begging with kindness and respect.
-If you want to give, offer some food or a hot drink.
-Talk to a Garda on the street or phone the local Garda station.
-Contact the Leanbh service on (01) 234 2009 or 087 062 5198.
-If you have an ongoing concern about a particular child, you can also contact the HSE.
-You can raise the issue of child begging with your local representative or TD.

With regard to giving money, it arguably increases the chances of the child begging on a regular basis and does not address the root cause of begging. Keep in mind also that child begging represents a serious child protection concern that puts children at risk on every level, whether they are begging alone or with an adult. It is illegal for a child/infant to beg on the street in Ireland, even when accompanied by an adult.

The traveller boy in question is now 19 years old, since he is no longer a child he is within his rights to sit out and beg. (I know his age is almost unbelieveable - he looks about eleven!)

It is unsurprising that he does, and has done for so long, he undoubtedly makes a considerable salary. It would be my personal opinion that while it is indeed lucrative, it is not viable since the business is detrimental to him in terms of his physical and mental health, his personal safety etc. and I believe it is possible that there may also be a problem with drugs.

Again, my personal opinion would be that it is a mistake to give him cash. I understand that he is aware of the support services availible to him. And I realise that it is not as black and white as that, there are a multitude of reasons for and factors impacting on and affecting the situation.

Anyway, I thought that it might be food for thought the original OP and a help towards making a decision on what action to take if you see him or a child out in the freezing cold begging. I know how you feel about it, my heart just breaks when I see him. Its tragic.

mikemac

Great post from Meridus above

All I'd say is if you find yourself in this situation and feel compelled to do something, don't give money, point them to the direction to nearest Social Welfare office.

I know you'll reply that some people don't have fixed address or maybe aren't entitled, hey the SW officers will point them in the correct direction.

Well at least I find myself approached at a busy Luas stop and train station often for "spare change"
But a social welfare office across the road
I just point it out and say stroll over there and ask what you're entitled to, I hope it works out

beth-lou

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

there is more then enough support and beds in the city. the help is there and it is offered on a nightly bases to the 100 homeless in the city and it is regularly turned.

you really need to educate YOURSELF a little further IMO

Should I? I deal with homelessness on a daily basis. I think about it every day and deal with the consequences of it. I understand fully how a person becomes homeless and I know that it is not something that someone chooses. It comes with the territory when your brother is homeless and you have tried to get him off the streets for years. Somehow I think I'm little more informed on the subject having experienced how it happened, knowing full well why it happened and also knowing why homeless people choose not to go into the shelters, they can be dangerous and addicts can't give up just for a bed.

As far as this boy goes, it is sad. I have given him money. I wasn't aware that he was living on a halting site. Still and all, I'll give homeless people money. If they spend it on drink or drugs so be it. If that makes the day a little easier for them, well who am I to judge. They aren't going to sort themselves out just because you decide not to give them money. They are people who are down on their luck, they are all miserable and would love to turn their lives around. Some do, some don't,

BOHS

beth-lou wrote: »

Should I? I deal with homelessness on a daily basis. I think about it every day and deal with the consequences of it. I understand fully how a person becomes homeless and I know that it is not something that someone chooses. It comes with the territory when your brother is homeless and you have tried to get him off the streets for years. Somehow I think I'm little more informed on the subject having experienced how it happened, knowing full well why it happened and also knowing why homeless people choose not to go into the shelters, they can be dangerous and addicts can't give up just for a bed.

As far as this boy goes, it is sad. I have given him money. I wasn't aware that he was living on a halting site. Still and all, I'll give homeless people money. If they spend it on drink or drugs so be it. If that makes the day a little easier for them, well who am I to judge. They aren't going to sort themselves out just because you decide not to give them money. They are people who are down on their luck, they are all miserable and would love to turn their lives around. Some do, some don't,

In fairness I don't believe she was saying that there is no reason for anyone to be homeless because as you mention above drink, drugs, family problems will always happen but there is no need for any homeless person to sleep on the street as there is enough transitional housing, b&b's, hostels provided to the homeless community each night so they will not have to. The only reason why someone will have to sleep on the street is if they are thrown out of these places before or simply do not avail of the services.

K_P

beth-lou wrote: »

They aren't going to sort themselves out just because you decide not to give them money.

beth-lou, I have full sympathy with your situation. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to be dealing with a brother who is homeless. But I'd have to disagree with your statement above.

Giving money to people living on the streets makes their way of life sustainable. Obvioulsy that doesn't mean if everyone stopped giving money that each homeless person would immediately access services, beat their addiciton or get treatment for their mental health problems. But it's much more likely that they would and some definitely would.

I'm not saying the services to homeless people in this country are perfect or even anywhere near it, but I really believe money given to homeless charities is much better spent than money given directly to a homeless person.

Rodent Queen

hmmmm...i think it is...i seen him again yesterday, the whole thing is messed up.

beth-lou

BOHS wrote: »

The only reason why someone will have to sleep on the street is if they are thrown out of these places before or simply do not avail of the services.

They tend to not avail of these places because they have addictions, although most in them have addictions but just get pumped up before they go in. But mainly because they can be very dangerous and they receive abuse in them. My brother had his two front teeth kicked in and his nose broken in the hostel. He was subject to dogs abuse and was afraid to stay in most of them. There are groups of homeless who are quite intimidationg and then there are those just trying to get through the night. Also, what little he had was stolen. Sometimes they choose not to go in because it is not nice in the hostels and they feel safer on the street. It's not as black and white as you think.

Anyway my bro is finally intreatment and is off the streets. It took a while and it was something he had to come around to himself. I agree the services there are fantastic and they do the best they can. But to say people choose to be homeless, which was the original point, is slightly off the mark and ill informed.

Eru

Only came across this thread today so apologies for bringing it back to life.

The kid your talking about is called Tommy and his older brother is the guy that watches. His name is Arthur. Tommy is about 16 or 17 now and Arthur around the 19 or 20 mark. I know their full names and address but obviously Im not about to say it online. They are originally from North Dublin and yes they are travellers. They frequently live rough and are both drug addicts.

Occasionaly their relationship with their family improves and the move back home. During these months they look a lot healthier and get back on their feet pretty well but it never lasts.

I dont know what else to say about them. they have on occasion engaged in criminal acts but in general its not their thing. They are very loyal to each other and dont really like taking charity believe it or not. the begging is an act of desperation.

Having said all that, dont give Tommy money. If you really must to keep your conscience clear give him food or clothing but thats it.

Motley Crue

The OP is certainly right to be concerned, it shows some people still have feelings for those appearing less fortunate, and in this day and age sometimes you cant be sure

I would agree that offering him something practical like money is the best solution - if it is the case that he is a traveller or, as someone here suggested, simply a child who catches the bus after school into town to beg then this is utterly disgraceful

If he is a member of the travelling community then I think what we should be asking ourselves is why we allow the travelling community to continue to beg and refuse to pay taxes and also to be able to move from point to point, thereby destroying the land around them as they go, and not just having the good sense and manners to clean up after them before they leave.

Some may feel I hold a grudge against this section of society and I will freely admit I am perhaps a little prejudice when I have personally never been the victim of abuse or torment of any kind from anyone I suspected of being a traveller. But this young man, wherever he is from and whatever his background is, is just another distressing story of what we are not doing to make people get off the streets and stay off