Bernard Dunne's Best Chance For A World Title?

Duddyfan · 14-12-2008 8:47am #1

What is Dunne's best chance for a world title shot?Oscar Larios at featherweight looks like a winnable fight for him.Is this the way Brian Peters is going or is Dunne staying at super bantamweight to try to regain the EBU belt?
I can't see Munroe giving Dunne any problems if they meet and if Martinez beat Munroe (that will be Munroe's mandatory fight after Trotta),I can see Dunne outpointing Martinez in a rematch if they fought for the title.The whole 86 second ko was a total fluke if you look at Martinez' performances since then and Dunne has stopped sticking the chin up and keeps the guard higher these days.
Which level should Dunne's management be aiming for, World or European,Opinions?

joepenguin · 15-12-2008 12:45am

Hi Duddyfan.

I think there is a thread going on this topic at the moment. I think Dunne should aim for a world title first and if unsuccesfull go for the European belt.
I cant see him beating or being competitive against any of the super bantam champions and only a slim chance of getting a belt at featherweight. They are two tough division. Super bantam have champions like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSZPbNfWb6E&feature=related

Featherweight has contenders like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgmLnQ5Hiow&feature=related

Best chance of a world title belt: Larios imo

gummy bear · 16-12-2008 3:09pm

hi lads
ive just joined, and was looking at wat u guy's are sayin about dunne, hes a very skillfull fiter but i think thats it, i hope he can beat martinez again to get sum pride back u know:pac: but moving up to feather will be a bad move becouse of his lack off power plus if he does move up before he goes near world level he'll have to test him self against good hard hitting featherweights u know.................................

And ive been looking at a few good irish lads like paul griffen, martin lindsey and patrick hyland... two of them are unbeaten and would be great fights for ireland... mostly for dublin if dunne and hyland meet..

HOW DO USE THINK THEY WOULD GO......

Hangballlouie · 17-12-2008 12:15am

Patrick Hyland imo would knock Dunne out, his power over the past twelve months has really impressed me.
Griffith is finished, as the above fighter retired him last April.
Lyndsey is a different kettle of fish altogether.

In his lt fight he was quality, and I would rather see a fight between Lyndsey and Hyland, than either of them against Dunne.
I think this would be to close to call, but Patrick needs maybe two-three more fights to be ready for a challenge against Lyndsey.

In regards Dunne, I don't think he is world level, I hope I am wrong.
He will get a world title shot, but won't win it.
He lost against an average fighter in Martinez, so a top quality fighter would take him out.
European is his level, imo.

Running Bing · 17-12-2008 1:48pm

Duddyfan wrote: »

What is Dunne's best chance for a world title shot?

walshb · 17-12-2008 2:28pm

hangballlouie wrote: »

Patrick Hyland imo would knock Dunne out, his power over the past twelve months has really impressed me.
Griffith is finished, as the above fighter retired him last April.
Lyndsey is a different kettle of fish altogether.

In his lt fight he was quality, and I would rather see a fight between Lyndsey and Hyland, than either of them against Dunne.
I think this would be to close to call, but Patrick needs maybe two-three more fights to be ready for a challenge against Lyndsey.

In regards Dunne, I don't think he is world level, I hope I am wrong.
He will get a world title shot, but won't win it.
He lost against an average fighter in Martinez, so a top quality fighter would take him out.
European is his level, imo.

You say Hyland would KO Dunne and then you say you don't think Dunne
is world level.:rolleyes:

I thought the first prediction would pave the way for you to then claim he is NOT world level. If Hyland is KOing you, then I think it's safe
to say you are NOT world level

Hangballlouie · 17-12-2008 8:01pm

walshb wrote: »

You say Hyland would KO Dunne and then you say you don't think Dunne
is world level.:rolleyes:

I thought the first prediction would pave the way for you to then claim he is NOT world level. If Hyland is KOing you, then I think it's safe
to say you are NOT world level

Good point, both are not world level, but Hyland beats Dunne, imo.

walshb · 17-12-2008 8:14pm

hangballlouie wrote: »

Good point, both are not world level, but Hyland beats Dunne, imo.

I agree on both counts; however, we are in the minority.

Hangballlouie · 17-12-2008 8:26pm

walshb wrote: »

I agree on both counts; however, we are in the minority.

It is great to have someone in agreement with me regards Dunne. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see him win a world title, but it is never going to happen.

On a side-note Walshb, I would love to see Patrick Hyland Vs Martin Lyndsey.
How do you think this would go?

gummy bear · 18-12-2008 5:08pm

hi guys
i agree with hyland ko dunne, he has show alot of power lately and is a very big featherweight, but hes only turned 25 and the change in him over the last year is big, so i think give him and lindsey time to make world level i think they shouldnt fite untill theres a big title on da line cos it will be a great fite 2 hard to call????????????

ive heard hyland has a IBF inter fite in new york on the 16th of march and is been train now by tracey patherson 2 time world champ and son of floyd??????????????????????????????

walshb · 18-12-2008 5:31pm

hangballlouie wrote: »

It is great to have someone in agreement with me regards Dunne. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see him win a world title, but it is never going to happen.

On a side-note Walshb, I would love to see Patrick Hyland Vs Martin Lyndsey.
How do you think this would go?

I would favor Patrick to win. A bit more polished and proven I feel. I think he is stronger too and the 'bigger' feather. I think Paul V Martin would be a better scrap; with Paul having to move up a few lbs. He has a big frame and could do it OK

Patrick is the best of the trio and will beat Martin if they meet

BTW, You mentioned Patrick KOing Dunne, yes he would; I was thinking of Paul beating Dunne.
Patrick is a feather and bigger and stronger than Bernard. I would be confident of
Patrick beating Bernard; but Paul V Bernard; I would say is a closer fight!

Damn names of the two brothers are so close

Just out of curiosity, folks have been mentioning Bernard as a possible winner at
126 for a world title:rolleyes:, so I assume those who believe this also believe that
Bernard could move to 126 lbs and beat Patrick Hyland?

phily2002 · 22-12-2008 2:58pm

Honestly I don't think Dunne has a chance at a world title
WBO- Juanma Lopez, this would be another easy 1 rounder for Lopez
WBA/IBF- Celestino Caballero, coming off a great win against Molitor, think he'd stop Dunne rd6-8
WBC- Israel Vazquez, might be the best option because Im not sure what he'll have left after his 3 wars with Marquez, stilll should have enough to take care of Dunne early though,
to be honest I think Dunnes unlucky because he's in one of the best divisions going, theres alot of dept to it with dangerous punchers(Ponce De Leon). If he was to move up, he might have a chance if he can sort out the defence(which he's working on) but he might want to stay away from Gamboa!

walshb · 22-12-2008 4:23pm

I read in the News of the World that Peters is trying to line
him up for a crack at the IBF Featherweight title f May 1st 2009. Cruz has a defence
soon, and Dunne is to meet the winner?

Bypass the Euro 122lb title?:rolleyes: Why? Because maybe that's not
good enough for Bernard/:rolleyes:

This is astounding really. Dunne has done NOTHING to merit a shot
at 122; so how is a shot at 126 merited?

Gamboa is rated number 8. That tells me, if the
ratings are at all accurate, that the 7 in front of Gamboa must be
damn special and Dunne hasn't a hope of making it
2 rds!

T-K-O · 22-12-2008 4:51pm

Walsh you clearly has a disliking to Dunne... 122 is probably the toughest division out there and Dunne is not the first person to do this. Your smart arse comment about the division not being good enough for him is just that!
Dunne wouldnt be the first irish man to do this.... See John Duddy, we could easily say he ran to light middle away from Pavlik but instead of some encouragement you love to knock.

I believe you fought at the same weight as Dunne ?? maybe that is where the jealousy / disliking steams from.

Nobody ever said Dunne was a out and out world beater but the guy deserves a shot, you should know more than most the dedication and sacrafice if takes to get to that level.

It's really getting old.

walshb · 22-12-2008 4:54pm

T-K-O wrote: »

Walsh you clearly has a disliking to Dunne... 122 is probably the toughest division out there and Dunne is not the first person to do this. Your smart arse comment about the division not being good enough for him is just that!
Dunne wouldnt be the first irish man to do this.... See John Duddy, we could easily say he ran to light middle away from Pavlik but instead of some encouragement you love to knock.

I believe you fought at the same weight as Dunne ?? maybe that is where the jealousy / disliking steams from.

Nobody ever said Dunne was a out and out world beater but the guy deserves a shot, you should know more than most the dedication and sacrafice if takes to get to that level.

It's really getting old.

Here we go again:rolleyes:
Someone mentions anything factual and true and possibly 'anti' Dunne; and you jump in
sweating and panicking? If it's getting OLD; simply ignore!

Oh, and then you bring in other boxers names.

So predictable.

Lets keep the discussion to Dunne and 122 and 126.
Simple, what merits HIM a shot at the IBF 126 tilte?

The guy deserves a shot? Are you serious?
And I don't know what it takes personally to get
to the world level; but I have a fair idea; and IMO, Dunne
is NOT close to the world level; not because he doesn't
prepare and train and sacrifice; he does all this; but because he
is just not good enough!

What about him actually proving he deserves a shot; ahead of the other
rated 126 IBF contenders?

To be honest, I would do him a favor and spare him an absolute pasting at 126 lbs.
That is what will happen should he get this proposed fight.

Though, I would say It's all smoke and mirrors with Peters and camp!

And quit the sh1t about me being jealous. It is SO pathetic

Dunne achieved a hell of a lot as an Irish amateur. Brilliant he was!

Still jealous am I?

BTW, do you believe he beats Patrick Hyland at 126 lbs?

I don't think he does. So that tells me a world title bid at 126 is
pure fantasy!

joepenguin · 22-12-2008 6:12pm

Walshb you just got me thinking there. Is Dunne even rated highly enough in any orgs for a title shot? I checked them out and found:

The wbo december rankings have him at 13 i think.
the wbc november rankings have him 25 (i expect that to go up a few after his last fight)
wba dont have him on the november ratings
ibf dont have him in november ratings.

Vasquez, Lopez, Cabellero and Cordoba (who holds the wba "regular" and a win over cabellero)
The only positive thing out if this is that Cabellero offered the fight before and if he is still willing to give Dunne a shot it would be for the 2 belts.

Why not try his hand at featherweight if there is a weaker champion. If all fails go for the ebu belt at 122 which shoots him up the rankings. He would basically take Munroes rankings. Cause he'll be a long time waiting to get a shot at that anyway.

Big Ears · 22-12-2008 6:20pm

Whatever about the merits of Dunne getting a title shot at 126 lbs, Dunne is a much much better fighter than Cyril Thomas, the man who is facing Cruz for the IBF Featherweight title next.

If people think Dunne has been brought along in a protective manner to achieve goals byond his talent then you haven't seen Thomas before.
Very very average fighter who was lucky to be around during an extremely poor time for the European Featherweight division.

Thomas won the European title against a really poor fighter and defended against a very average fighter and a faded Manuel Calvo(who was nothing to shout about in his prime).
He then ran into Nicky Cook and got dominated and eventually knocked out.

From there he fought a succession of very poor journeymen for 2 years before coming up against Mohamed Benibou. Benibou was 10-5 at the time of the fight and had lost his last 3. Benibou stopped Thomas in just 2 rounds.

So how far did that set Thomas back in his career ?.......well if anything it brought him on a huge amount because 1 month later he was rewarded with a fight for the vacant European title against Karim Ketoun. Why the EBU put not only Thomas into the position of being able to fight for the European title after his loss but against an opponent as poor as Ketoun(who had been operating at French and European level with a very patchy record of just 14-11-5 at the time) god knows.

But anyway Thomas took his gift of the European title by beating Ketoun.
In his only defence against Yuri Voronin, he retained the title with a technical draw after the fight had to be stopped due to a cut after 3 rounds.
The only report I read of the bout had Voronin getting the better of the early exchanges.

Knowing that some decent(well not great but better than Thomas) fighters were next in line for the European title Thomas vacated and his team got him a fight for the WBF 'World title' against David Kiilu. Nicky Cook stopped Kiilu in 2 , Spend Abazi in 4, Rendall Munroe beat him easy enough on points and Choi Tsveenpurev stopped him in 3. Thomas struggled to a very close points decision(although unanimous) and from there his team but him in a new direction.

The IBF-Intercontinetal title. His team knew they had milked Thomas long enough and wanted to get him in a World title fight before his career was over. They put him in with 3 South Americans from lower weight classes........yes this does sound familiar but I can assure you that Thomas' opponents were much softer touches than Dunne's. They're the kind of guys that the fighters Dunne beat, beat to obtain their records.

3 stoppage wins and hey presto World title shot for Thomas.
Unless Cruz gets old overnight he'll stop Thomas with ease, the Frenchman doesn't have a chance and he's been tactically engineered into this position better than any fighter I can think of recently.
He looks a quality fighter, former French and two time European champion who has held a version of a lesser World title(WBF) and succesfully defended an Inter-Continental belt for a while. He actually looks a reasonable defence but in truth, he's not even close. Dunne would boxs rings around Thomas and is every bit as deserving of a World title fight as Thomas.

walshb · 22-12-2008 6:21pm

joepenguin wrote: »

Walshb you just got me thinking there. Is Dunne even rated highly enough in any orgs for a title shot? I checked them out and found:

The wbo december rankings have him at 13 i think.
the wbc november rankings have him 25 (i expect that to go up a few after his last fight)
wba dont have him on the november ratings
ibf dont have him in november ratings.

Vasquez, Lopez, Cabellero and Cordoba (who holds the wba "regular" and a win over cabellero)
The only positive thing out if this is that Cabellero offered the fight before and if he is still willing to give Dunne a shot it would be for the 2 belts.

Why not try his hand at featherweight if there is a weaker champion. If all fails go for the ebu belt at 122 which shoots him up the rankings. He would basically take Munroes rankings. Cause he'll be a long time waiting to get a shot at that anyway.

Joe, folks can say what they like about the 122 lb division in comparison
with the 126 lb division; bottom line is SIMPLE; Dunne is not rated high
enough to merit a shot a 122, let alone 126. The ratings you list are the
122 lb ratings.

Is he even in the TOP 50 at 126?
Is he even rated at all?

Should he get a shot at 126?

No, he doesn't deserve it at all. This goes for any fighter, not
just Dunne!

Would I like to see him challenge for the title in his next bout at 126 or 122?
Yes I would; but that does NOT mean he deserves it.
He has done NOTHING at all In the last 18 months to
say to me that he is ready or deserving!

IF he gets a shot he will lose real bad; as he is NOT up to it!

Still no answer on Patrick Hyland v Dunne at 126?
BTW, Thomas is not good at all; but still a seasoned 126 fighter.
Does he deserve a shot? No as well!
If this Cruz is half decent, he will obliterate Thomas, as Big Ears suggested.

I don't see why all the time other fighters have to be
mentioned as being crap to somehow defend or
make out Dunne is not alone. I get it; there is crap
in all divisions and silly title fights with
bums getting shots. I know all this. I think it
STINKS!

Well gone are the days when champs faced mandatory challengers,
Easy pickings fighting bums until they are ORDERED
to defend against the mandatory

You can bet that Peters and CO will watch the Cruz-Thomas fight and if Cruz looks half
decent, the fight with Bernard will be scrapped; unless they just
want the money and not the title! Probably 250k+ to get KO'd in a rd or two!

Easy money if you can get it huh?

T-K-O · 22-12-2008 8:31pm

Other fighters are mentioned because you insist on attacking Dunne and making out that he is the only dude in boxing that suits himself or he would be the only unrated guy to get a shot.

Yeah it would be great it the #1 only fought for the belt but this doesnt happen for numerous reasons.

Of course Dunne is not rated at feather he doesnt campaign there, one fight would change that.

You keep banging on about the ratings but we all know on here if Dunne beat Munroe he would have the rating and you will still **** all over everything he is trying to achieve.

walshb · 22-12-2008 8:46pm

T-K-O wrote: »

Other fighters are mentioned because you insist on attacking Dunne and making out that he is the only dude in boxing that suits himself or he would be the only unrated guy to get a shot.

Yeah it would be great it the #1 only fought for the belt but this doesnt happen for numerous reasons.

Of course Dunne is not rated at feather he doesnt campaign there, one fight would change that.

You keep banging on about the ratings but we all know on here if Dunne beat Munroe he would have the rating and you will still **** all over everything he is trying to achieve.

I make out that Dunne is the only guy suiting himself and the only guy who is underrated
and gets a shot?

Yeh, that's real TRUE:rolleyes:

I specifically said that it is happening all over the boxing world; but this thread relates to
Dunne being worthy/unworthy. If you want, why not start another thread and select another example

This should not be a case of another Dunne thread sinking into a slagging contest.
It is real simple. He is being talked of as a possible world challenger in a division that
he is NOT even rated in and at a time when he has done NOTHING to deserve a shot at the belt. This to me is a no brainer.

I did say I would like to see the fight and that even though I would like to see it, doesn't mean that he is remotely worthy. I just think that if the champ is a champ, it will be a pasting that Dunne will receive.

Simple question; do you believe he deserves a shot at a 126 lb title, or
is close to the level needed to be deserving of a shot or has merited a shot?
You also say 'IF Dunne beat Munroe?' He hasn't and it
looks like he won't. That's living on promises and dreams

TKO, why is it that every time we discuss Dunne you become so sensitive?

For the record, I have never even met Dunne or spoke a single word to him.
Why do you take my 'criticism' so personally?

Wanting him to get a shot does not translate into him deserving a shot.
That's my point and in Dunne's case, it is VERY true!

T-K-O · 22-12-2008 8:58pm

If he got a shot ahead of a top ten feather would be deserve that No, is that the way boxing is yes. Does Haye deserve to fight the HW champion of the world after fighter a nobody - If Dunne beat a top 20 feather would he then deserve the shot ??

Yes I do believe he is close to the level, I have said many times that Dunne IMO is top ten super ban, the feather weight division IMO is much weaker so I think he would be up to it.

I dont take it personal but you dont attack / analyze other fights in the same way.

walshb · 22-12-2008 9:05pm

T-K-O wrote: »

If he got a shot ahead of a top ten feather would be deserve that No, is that the way boxing is yes. Does Haye deserve to fight the HW champion of the world after fighter a nobody - If Dunne beat a top 20 feather would he then deserve the shot ??

Yes I do believe he is close to the level, I have said many times that Dunne IMO is top ten super ban, the feather weight division IMO is much weaker so I think he would be up to it.

I dont take it personal but you dont attack / analyze other fights in the same way.

Ok, so basically the shot at feather, we both want, but you, like me, agree it's ludicrous.
He is as I said, not even rated.

The Haye example is misleading. He is a heavy and has competed at heavy.
Dunne has not competed at feather has he? At least not since the KO loss to Kiko!

T-K-O · 22-12-2008 9:13pm

Haye has fought once at heavy if I am not mistaken - and he was calling out Wlad and Vitali even before that fight. The point is thats boxing, love it or hate.

The alternative is only a pipe dream.

Is it unfair to the top ten feathers, yah but what does he care about that. More than most sports boxing is dog eat dog. You do what you can to get a shot, if you win great if you get spanked you know your place.

walshb · 22-12-2008 9:18pm

T-K-O wrote: »

Haye has fought once at heavy if I am not mistaken - and he was calling out Wlad and Vitali even before that fight. The point is thats boxing, love it or hate.

The alternative is only a pipe dream.

Is it unfair to the top ten feathers, yah but what does he care about that. More than most sports boxing is dog eat dog. You do what you can to get a shot, if you win great if you get spanked you know your place.

Agree, but you have to admit, the Dunne example is takin' the piss.
I honestly believe it's all crap talk really and if Peters sees Cruz as
any way decent, it will be shelved.

T-K-O · 22-12-2008 9:19pm

Well I have many times that I am not impressed with ANY of Dunnes team....but what you gonna do.

foams · 22-12-2008 10:04pm

You cannot compare Dunne to David Haye, Haye was the undisputed number one at cruiser, Dunne is chancer. Best of luck to him but i think there is
other more talented Irish boxers out there deserveing of the attention he
recieves, example being Paul McClosky

T-K-O · 22-12-2008 10:12pm

It is the same principle, By certain logic Dunne does not deserve a shot because he is not ranked and it would be unfair to the ranked fighter...

No, it isnt fair - but that is boxing and now the top ten HW have to wait for Vitali to destroy Haye before they get the shot that they worked their way up to.

walshb · 22-12-2008 10:17pm

T-K-O wrote: »

It is the same principle, By certain logic Dunne does not deserve a shot because he is not ranked and it would be unfair to the ranked fighter...

No, it isnt fair - but that is boxing and now the top ten HW have to wait for Vitali to destroy Haye before they get the shot that they worked their way up to.

foams makes a very good point that I as going to make but was worried you might
not take it too well:)

If Dunne was even TOP 10 at 122 lbs, then some case could be made.
He is NOT; Haye was number 1 below heavy and is NOW a heavyweight.
Former world champ and all that.

I did say the example was misleading, I have to reiterate this TKO; and I think
you have to agree here?

Hangballlouie · 22-12-2008 11:23pm

The points Walshb makes are valid imo. I know Bernard a bit from his amateur days and I like the guy.
I just don't think he has a hope of winning a world title, his level is european.
I would love to see him get a world title shot but I believe he would lose.

As for him moving up to 126 to win a world title as some are suggesting, then I again take Walshb's point that Patrick Hyland would beat Dunne at this weight.
Does this mean that Hyland would win a world title?

sston · 23-12-2008 12:54am

walshb I don't remember you having a rant when it was suggested the John Duddy was going to get a shot at Vince Phillips, then the IBF light middleweight champ even though Duddy had not fought at the weight before and was not rated by any sanctioning body at light middle. Maybe I missed that rant or maybe you can tell me who he's beaten that would have qualified him ahead of Dunne?

You keep telling people to keep it to Dunne but the reason other guys are brought up is that you don't seem to apply the same standards to other fighters that you do to Dunne. For example you didn't seem to have an issue with Paul Hyland getting beaten by a journeyman in a 4 rounder but Dunne has fought nothing but "bums" apparently.

When you start applying the same standards to all fighters than I'll treat you're views a little more seriously.

I'm not a huge Dunne fan I like to think I can look at him and any other Irish boxer in a fair and unbiased way. Your constant sniping of Dunne is in my opinion more biased than the views of his die hard fans who come on here defending him blindly and that's saying something!

By the way back to the topic. does Dunne deserve a world title shot? In a perfectly fair and reasonable world, no and neither does Duddy but I cerainly wouldn't begrudge either man getting a shot. This is pro boxing, it's a business which is hardly ever fair and reasonable and in this light Dunne is entitled to his shot as about 50% of the guys who have challenged for world titles this year.

joepenguin · 23-12-2008 1:29am

Of course Dunne doesnt deserve a title shot ahead of those ranked higher than him in either division, especially 126. That hasnt stopped loads of other fighters getting their shots. And yes he's pretty much chancing his arm with the featherweights to see if he can land a shot. More power to him if he does.

Duddyfan · 23-12-2008 1:52pm

T-K-O wrote: »

If he got a shot ahead of a top ten feather would be deserve that No, is that the way boxing is yes. Does Haye deserve to fight the HW champion of the world after fighter a nobody - If Dunne beat a top 20 feather would he then deserve the shot ??

Yes I do believe he is close to the level, I have said many times that Dunne IMO is top ten super ban, the feather weight division IMO is much weaker so I think he would be up to it.

I dont take it personal but you dont attack / analyze other fights in the same way.

TKO I thought I was the only person who believes that Dunne is better than he gets credit for.In my opinion he beats Munroe if he went for the EBU, Larios if he went for the WBC Featherweight title, possibly Cruz although it would be a tough fight but he wouldn't beat any of the top super bantamweights, only because of his questionable chin, his skill and technical ability is right up there with the top 10 super bantams and contray to a lot of peoples opinions, the boy CAN punch!
I get your point about Dunne getting flack for moving up to featherweight when Duddy is doing the same and nothing is said about it. As much as I like Duddy,Dunne deserves a title shot more, he was EBU champ after all.
I think Dunne will fight for a title in 2009, he is not getting any younger, better to find out now if he is good enough.

T-K-O · 23-12-2008 2:45pm

Duddyfan wrote: »

TKO I thought I was the only person who believes that Dunne is better than he gets credit for.In my opinion he beats Munroe if he went for the EBU, Larios if he went for the WBC Featherweight title, possibly Cruz although it would be a tough fight but he wouldn't beat any of the top super bantamweights, only because of his questionable chin, his skill and technical ability is right up there with the top 10 super bantams and contray to a lot of peoples opinions, the boy CAN punch!
I get your point about Dunne getting flack for moving up to featherweight when Duddy is doing the same and nothing is said about it. As much as I like Duddy,Dunne deserves a title shot more, he was EBU champ after all.
I think Dunne will fight for a title in 2009, he is not getting any younger, better to find out now if he is good enough.

Yeah Dunne really needs to get his skates on, Ive said many times his team do him no favors.

Lots of people seem to dislike Dunne because of the attention he gets but in fact he was brought the spot light back to boxing..

Again I have stated in other threads, IMO Dunne is more that capable for the second tier super ban. What I mean by that is the world champions in his division [one of the most competitive] are absolute animals and Dunne would would have to modify his style to beat them and that will not happen. That is why I created the thread about Dunne going after the featherweights. It is not only the smart move but the right one and Dunne like Duddy is totally right to go down that road.

mark renton · 23-12-2008 2:54pm

hangballlouie wrote: »

Patrick Hyland imo would knock Dunne out, his power over the past twelve months has really impressed me.
Griffith is finished, as the above fighter retired him last April.
Lyndsey is a different kettle of fish altogether.

In his lt fight he was quality, and I would rather see a fight between Lyndsey and Hyland, than either of them against Dunne.
I think this would be to close to call, but Patrick needs maybe two-three more fights to be ready for a challenge against Lyndsey.

In regards Dunne, I don't think he is world level, I hope I am wrong.
He will get a world title shot, but won't win it.
He lost against an average fighter in Martinez, so a top quality fighter would take him out.
European is his level, imo.

Go get some reality pills.... Hyland is still a novice

walshb · 23-12-2008 3:34pm

sston wrote: »

walshb I don't remember you having a rant when it was suggested the John Duddy was going to get a shot at Vince Phillips, then the IBF light middleweight champ even though Duddy had not fought at the weight before and was not rated by any sanctioning body at light middle. Maybe I missed that rant or maybe you can tell me who he's beaten that would have qualified him ahead of Dunne?

You keep telling people to keep it to Dunne but the reason other guys are brought up is that you don't seem to apply the same standards to other fighters that you do to Dunne. For example you didn't seem to have an issue with Paul Hyland getting beaten by a journeyman in a 4 rounder but Dunne has fought nothing but "bums" apparently.

When you start applying the same standards to all fighters than I'll treat you're views a little more seriously.

I'm not a huge Dunne fan I like to think I can look at him and any other Irish boxer in a fair and unbiased way. Your constant sniping of Dunne is in my opinion more biased than the views of his die hard fans who come on here defending him blindly and that's saying something!

By the way back to the topic. does Dunne deserve a world title shot? In a perfectly fair and reasonable world, no and neither does Duddy but I cerainly wouldn't begrudge either man getting a shot. This is pro boxing, it's a business which is hardly ever fair and reasonable and in this light Dunne is entitled to his shot as about 50% of the guys who have challenged for world titles this year.

Paul Hyland? What's he got to do with it. He lost a
freaking 4 rds decision, so what.
He is NOT being made out as world class; he is not and is not being
made out. Forget him. I don't rate him high at all.

Duddy? Hey, I like Duddy; but he too is NOT world class.
He has been a round an eternity and out of pure
boredom; give the bloody man a world title shot.
He is a consummate pro however!

He is still unbeaten too!

Now, that's that covered regards other fighters. Happy?

Ok, letes give Dunne the shot in May?

I just think he isn't close to deserving it and that
he will be KO'd in 1-3 rds MAX if he gets the shot

Anyone like to honestly make a prediction or are all
sitting on the fence?

Oh, how about Patrick Hyland and Dunne at 126?

Who wins?

If we are being correct, let us give Dunne 1-2 warm up
bouts at 126 to ease him in, instead of allowing him
to be clean KO'd in his first bout.

But, Peters and CO know that warm up bouts at 126
could also prove fatal; so they probably want to get
clean KO'd for a title shot and makes loads of
money, bypassing the warm up disasters

walshb · 23-12-2008 3:59pm

sston wrote: »

walshb I don't remember you having a rant when it was suggested the John Duddy was going to get a shot at Vince Phillips, then the IBF light middleweight champ even though Duddy had not fought at the weight before and was not rated by any sanctioning body at light middle. Maybe I missed that rant or maybe you can tell me who he's beaten that would have qualified him ahead of Dunne?

BTW, there is a distinct difference between a good fighter moving down
in weight to challenge than a fighter moving up to challenge.

Duddy was on the CUSP of getting a middleweight shot; he then moved DOWN
to Junior Middle.

Dunne isn't even rated in the 122 lb division as regards a title shot and now he is getting a possible title shot in a HIGHER weight that he is NOT rated in at all?:rolleyes:

There is IMO a big difference in both cases

T-K-O · 23-12-2008 4:14pm

Talk about misleading posts....Duddy was and is a cash cow of sorts for Kelly Pavlivk. Pav knew he would do a number no John and get very well paid for it as we all know Duddy has huge support stateside.

Duddy had no option to move up, just as Bernard has no option to move down.

You keep banging on about Dunnes rating, when it wouldnt change your mind one bit if he was rated top ten 10.

Maybe if Munroe didnt duck out of the Dunne fight Dunne would know be ranked in the top 10, would that really make a difference to you....

Oh wait a minute Munroe didnt want to fight in Dublin.

walshb · 23-12-2008 4:25pm

T-K-O wrote: »

Talk about misleading posts....Duddy was and is a cash cow of sorts for Kelly Pavlivk. Pav knew he would do a number no John and get very well paid for it as we all know Duddy has huge support stateside.

Duddy had no option to move up, just as Bernard has no option to move down.

You keep banging on about Dunnes rating, when it wouldnt change your mind one bit if he was rated top ten 10.

Maybe if Munroe didnt duck out of the Dunne fight Dunne would know be ranked in the top 10, would that really make a difference to you....

Oh wait a minute Munroe didnt want to fight in Dublin.

Again with the excuses. IF IF IF IF.....Dunne hasn't fought and hasn't beat Munroe and that's
not all to do with Munroe. Peters and CO want it all their way even though they aren't in the driving seat. If Peters and CO are really genuine, then they wouldn't be refusing
the Munroe fight based on cash. If they want to be taken serious, then go get Munroe and fight him anywhere. Don't be constantly looking for excuses. It's SAD!

Dunne is nothing at the moment and he and camp don't deserve any CLOUT!

The freaking cheek of Peters dictating the terms when he is NOT in any position to be doing so!

Can't you see the craziness of this?

Duddyfan · 23-12-2008 4:34pm

walshb wrote: »

Paul Hyland? What's he got to do with it. He lost a
freaking 4 rds decision, so what.
He is NOT being made out as world class; he is not and is not being
made out. Forget him. I don't rate him high at all.

Duddy? Hey, I like Duddy; but he too is NOT world class.
He has been a round an eternity and out of pure
boredom; give the bloody man a world title shot.
He is a consummate pro however!

He is still unbeaten too!

Now, that's that covered regards other fighters. Happy?

Ok, letes give Dunne the shot in May?

I just think he isn't close to deserving it and that
he will be KO'd in 1-3 rds MAX if he gets the shot

Anyone like to honestly make a prediction or are all
sitting on the fence?

Oh, how about Patrick Hyland and Dunne at 126?

Who wins?

If we are being correct, let us give Dunne 1-2 warm up
bouts at 126 to ease him in, instead of allowing him
to be clean KO'd in his first bout.

But, Peters and CO know that warm up bouts at 126
could also prove fatal; so they probably want to get
clean KO'd for a title shot and makes loads of
money, bypassing the warm up disasters

Yeah, I will make a predicition that Dunne outpoints Hyland easily. Hyland may look like he has decent power, but against who?Hyland dosen't have the skills that Dunne has.Look at Dunne V Jailouv, there was power in those punches, especially his jab.
He has it in him to match Hylands power especially with his new strength training coaching and as someone said here before, his chin may improve with the extra weight at featherweight as he's drained at super bantam so I don't believe Hyland poses a threat to Dunne.Dunne has a lot more experience also.

walshb · 23-12-2008 4:38pm

Duddyfan wrote: »

Yeah, I will make a predicition that Dunne outpoints Hyland easily. Hyland may look like he has decent power, but against who?Hyland dosen't have the skills that Dunne has.Look at Dunne V Jailouv, there was power in those punches, especially his jab.
He has it in him to match Hylands power especially with his new strength training coaching and as someone said here before, his chin may improve with the extra weight at featherweight as he's drained at super bantam so I don't believe Hyland poses a threat to Dunne.Dunne has a lot more experience also.

Hey, fair point. I will go with Patrick's natural strength advantage and being a big feather to prevail. Dunne won't really hurt him and STOP him pressing. If Dunne had a punch, YES, he wins! Oh, and a bit more natural strength!

Duddyfan · 23-12-2008 4:49pm

walshb wrote: »

Hey, fair point. I will go with Patrick's natural strength advantage and being a big feather to prevail. Dunne won't really hurt him and STOP him pressing. If Dunne had a punch YES he wins!

That would be some fight but it's unlikely to ever come off. I get the impression that Peters would not risk it, I don't really see him having faith in Dunne's ability. He is all talk when it comes to Dunne's career and is contantly running his own agenda.Dunne needs maanagement who will let him take the big fights and who will actually give him a chance to proove his worth.
Look at Duddy's career aswell, in the US people are saying that his management had the chance to sign the Pavlik fight before the Smichet disaster but didn't for some reason.

walshb · 23-12-2008 5:06pm

I don't think they come close in comparison. Duddy has slogged it out in nearly all his fights and been in many wars against some very good fighters. Dunne has fought far too may bums and non threats. He has fought three comeback bouts against men smaller and not even in his division!

Duddy does take too much and lacks power, but he has all the tangibles needed to
succeed; it's just a pity he doesn't possess the punch!

Feck sake, Eastman was far better than any man Dunne ever fought, and Eastman was past his best!

Before anyone jumps in saying 'you hate Dunne,' think before doing so.
Have I said anything untrue?

Duddyfan · 23-12-2008 5:39pm

walshb wrote: »

I don't think they come close in comparison. Duddy has slogged it out in nearly all his fights and been in many wars against some very good fighters. Dunne has fought far too may bums and non threats. He has fought three comeback bouts against men smaller and not even in his division!

Duddy does take too much and lacks power, but he has all the tangibles needed to
succeed; it's just a pity he doesn't possess the punch!

Feck sake, Eastman was far better than any man Dunne ever fought, and Eastman was past his best!

Before anyone jumps in saying 'you hate Dunne,' think before doing so.
Have I said anything untrue?

I was really just comparing their crappy management rather than their skills. It's funny though if Dunne and Duddy traded some of Duddy's chin for some of Dunne's skill, they would be flying!
To be fair to Dunne though, most of the guys he has fought were actually bigger than him, particularly in his early fights,some as big as lightweight and one even campaigned at welterweight. His last opponent was to be super bantam, it's not Dunne's fault that he ended up fighting a bantamweight.

sston · 23-12-2008 5:42pm

walshb wrote: »

Feck sake, Eastman was far better than any man Dunne ever fought, and Eastman was past his best!

Before anyone jumps in saying 'you hate Dunne,' think before doing so.
Have I said anything untrue?

Couldn't be arsed to go through the rest of the posts to argue back and forth but even on this alone I think there's a fair argument to be made that Pickering was every bit as good as Eastman and Dunne dealt with him far more comfortably than Duddy did Eastman. Eastman was coming off a defeat in a British title fight going into the Duddy fight. Granted Pickering was coming off a defeat too but only on a contentious split decision to Michael Hunter in a European title defeat. Also he was actually scheduled to fight for the IBF featherweight title at feather (where have we heard that one recently) only a few months before he fought Dunne but had to pull out injured and he was only considered to be a slight underdog going into that fight.

Anyway al of the above is to illustrate your biased nature when it comes to Dunne saying that Eastman was "far better than any man Dunne ever fought" when most reasonable boxing fans would say that wasn't true.

Sure at their respective peaks I would agree that Eastman fought at a higher level but he was rarely successful at that level and as you say was past his best at 37. Don't forget that when Dunne fought Pickering an awful lot of good judges thought it was a 50 - 50 fight because Pickering was still 30.

So anyway my point is that without going back through all the blinkered statements you have made about Dunne the very one preceding your statement "Before anyone jumps in saying 'you hate Dunne,' think before doing so. Have I said anything untrue" Well saying Eastman is way better than Pickering is in my opinion and I would suspect in the opinion of most boxing fans, untrue!

walshb · 23-12-2008 5:47pm

sston wrote: »

Couldn't be arsed to go through the rest of the posts to argue back and forth but even on this alone I think there's a fair argument to be made that Pickering was every bit as good as Eastman and Dunne dealt with him far more comfortably than Duddy did Eastman. Eastman was coming off a defeat in a British title fight going into the Duddy fight. Granted Pickering was coming off a defeat too but only on a contentious split decision to Michael Hunter in a European title defeat. Also he was actually scheduled to fight for the IBF featherweight title at feather (where have we heard that one recently) only a few months before he fought Dunne but had to pull out injured and he was only considered to be a slight underdog going into that fight.

Anyway al of the above is to illustrate your biased nature when it comes to Dunne saying that Eastman was "far better than any man Dunne ever fought" when most reasonable boxing fans would say that wasn't true.

Sure at their respective peaks I would agree that Eastman fought at a higher level but he was rarely successful at that level and as you say was past his best at 37. Don't forget that when Dunne fought Pickering an awful lot of good judges thought it was a 50 - 50 fight because Pickering was still 30.

So anyway my point is that without going back through all the blinkered statements you have made about Dunne the very one preceding your statement "Before anyone jumps in saying 'you hate Dunne,' think before doing so. Have I said anything untrue" Well saying Eastman is way better than Pickering is in my opinion and I would suspect in the opinion of most boxing fans, untrue!

Did Pickering even pose a threat V Dunne. He did nothing but survive.
Eastman was very dangerous and looked like he actually
wanted to win. Had a hefty punch and landed it solidly.
Pickering didn't trouble, or want to trouble Dunne

I honestly thought Pickering was really poor.
Who are all these folk that rate Pickering high?

Or, rate the Dunne-Pickering bout as even competitive.
Dunne won it by a MILE; because he performed well and because
Pickering was so poor

And the reason you couldn't be arsed to reply to my previous
post addressed to you is because in it, I shot
you down!

Simple, who is a more dangerous and threatening fighter, Pick or Eastman?

I cannot see but one answer!

Just go look at the bloody fights.
One looks like a glorified spar and the other, like a WAR!

Duddyfan · 23-12-2008 5:53pm

walshb wrote: »

Did Pickering even pose a threat V Dunne. He did nothing but survive.
Eastman was very dangerous and looked like he actually
wanted to win. Had a hefty punch and landed it solidly.
Pickering didn't trouble, or want to trouble Dunne

I honestly thought Pickering was really poor.
Who are all these folk that rate Pickering high?

Or, rate the Dunne-Pickering bout as even competitive.
Dune won it by a MILE; because he performed well and because
Pickering was so poor

Pickering was highly rated European level boxer and surely the fact that he posed no threat to Dunne was down to Dunne's superior boxing!
Duddy did struggle against Eastman, some thought Eastman had won that fight.
Duddy has his strenghts, so does Dunne but they have such different styles that it is an unfair comparison.

T-K-O · 23-12-2008 5:56pm

walshb wrote: »

Again with the excuses. IF IF IF IF.....Dunne hasn't fought and hasn't beat Munroe and that's
not all to do with Munroe. Peters and CO want it all their way even though they aren't in the driving seat. If Peters and CO are really genuine, then they wouldn't be refusing
the Munroe fight based on cash. If they want to be taken serious, then go get Munroe and fight him anywhere. Don't be constantly looking for excuses. It's SAD!

Dunne is nothing at the moment and he and camp don't deserve any CLOUT!

The freaking cheek of Peters dictating the terms when he is NOT in any position to be doing so!

Can't you see the craziness of this?

Walsh it clearly is personally with you - you do not like the guy. You cant pull the wool over a baldy sheep's eyes!!

Are you denying the fact that you do not really care where Dunne is ranked its just another stick to beat him with and an excuse for you...

If it is all about boxing why are to the antagonist in every thread.

You **** all over his opponents when similar guys are good enough for your favorites. You felt the need to **** all over the thread about his gloves and did the same when I created the thread about him fighting at feather and now we find ourselves in here and guess what ? Some things never change.

Fighting Dublin is where the money is at, and for Munroe to turn down a Dublin date only to fight a scrub a few months later is sad!!

T-K-O · 23-12-2008 6:01pm

The Hate never ends...Pickering was still at the top of his game for the Dunne fight, he wanted to hurt Dunne he just couldnt!! Dunne schooled him on the night - he like many fighters raised his game accordingly.

Eastman was years past his peak and Duddy while he clearly won only did so by the odd round.

Who is the more treating at that time ?? There is only one bloody answer and is sure as hell inst old man Eastman

sston · 23-12-2008 6:11pm

walshb wrote: »

Just go look at the bloody fights.
One looks like a glorified spar and the other, like a WAR!

It was a glorified spar because Dunne was simply much better on the night. Pickering simply could not lay a glove on him.

As for Duddy - Eastman I wouldn't class it as a war. A good scrap but not a war, now Duddy - Smichet, that was a war. Does that make Smichet world class?

Styles make fights, Duddy will end up in a toe to toe scrap with anybody because of his style while Dunne will always try to box the ears off his opponents because he too is playing to his strengths. I think they're both at about the same level.

sston · 23-12-2008 6:13pm

Duddyfan wrote: »

Pickering was highly rated European level boxer and surely the fact that he posed no threat to Dunne was down to Dunne's superior boxing!
Duddy did struggle against Eastman, some thought Eastman had won that fight.
Duddy has his strenghts, so does Dunne but they have such different styles that it is an unfair comparison.

Agreed, great reasonable post

T-K-O · 23-12-2008 6:14pm

sston wrote: »

It was a glorified spar because Dunne was simply much better on the night. Pickering simply could not lay a glove on him.

As for Duddy - Eastman I wouldn't class it as a war. A good scrap but not a war, now Duddy - Smichet, that was a war. Does that make Smichet world class?

Styles make fights, Duddy will end up in a toe to toe scrap with anybody because of his style while Dunne will always try to box the ears off his opponents because he too is playing to his strengths. I think they're both at about the same level.

Thank you, this place makes me feel like Im losing it sometimes....

Duddy could get sucked into war with the heavy bag.

Bernard Dunne's Best Chance For A World Title?

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