So Unfair

TheminxIRL

Hi there not sure if anybody can even help me feel any better but I just need to get this off my chest.

I have a 3 yr old son, am seperated from his father for the past 2 and a half years and we went to court to arrange access visits.

Father was awarded two day visits a week and one overnight every six weeks.

I gave overnights the two days he was due to have access during the day, only as I thought it would benefit my child to build a strong bond with his dad.

Everything worked fine until a few months ago when my childs demeanour changed completely.

First off was the strong reluctance for him to go with his father when he came to collect him. This is the complete opposite of how it was, my son would wait at the sitting room window waiting for his Dad's car to pull up and was out before he had even parked.

Then he started strange behaviour, getting very needy clingy, upset easily and sitting on the floor and rocking and just staring into space.

At this point I was seriously concerned but once the bed wetting and wetting during the day just standing on the spot started, the sexual words and actions and the stories of having to share a bath with his day and his girlfriend and how his Dad hurt him and he cried, I thought enough was enough and decided to take some action.

The first port of call was an association called Springboard, who I have to say were excellent. I was advised to contact a social worker, this I did but during an hour visit with myself and my mother I was shocked that she didnt do any notes and complained and was assigned another social worker in her place. This girl has been great.

After advice I took my son to the gp as he had complained of having a sore penis on and off for some time and a kidney or urine infection were both ruled out. My Son did completely freak out when the doctor tried to examine him though and was so hysterical a physical exam was not possible.

I also took him to see a child psychologist who advised me he was showing all the symptoms of some mental disturbance and that until the danger was removed there was no chance of my son improving.

So next thing I get a letter from the HSE stating that as my son was only 3 the Child Assessment Unit wouldnt normally see him but and I quote "due to serious concerns raised by the social worker, the team leader, the gp, the child psychologist and the Guardi two appointments had been made for him".

This is where the problem begins.

Before they see the child the parents are interviewed which is fair enough. The dad was in first then myself and my mother as it was a joint complaint made by us (My mother has my son from 7am till 5pm Mon to Fri when im working and obviously had seen/heard worrying things). This was just standard questions you would expect.

Now I took my son to the Unit on Tuesday of this week and this is exactly what happened.

Arrived at quarter to ten, myself my son and the assessor went to a different room. My Son was encouraged to play with play dough and interact with the assessor. After a couple of mins she started to ask him questions about who lives at home etc and he said "stop talking im playing" as a 3 yr old would to a stranger they have never seen before. The session was stopped and we were asked to return to the waiting room.

Five mins later we went back in, this time my son was given a garage to play with and again it started off with him talking about his cars etc and when the questions started about a doll the assessor had he lost interest so again the session was stopped.

Both had lasted approximately 10 mins between them.

I was then called into a room and told that they could not get my son to express himself and that there was no point in seeing him the second time.

I was in so much shock I didnt say anything, I was stunned. But the killer was, this person said that it was their opinion that nothing had happened to my son that it was seperation anxiety or someting along those lines despite the fact he has had the same routine for the past 2 and a half years!

I know my child, I know what he has told me I have even gone so far as to record him on my phone so that it can be proven. He has some out with so many statements in front of so many witnesses its crazy.

I feel like my son is being sent back into the lions den now and when they do realise they make a mistake his life will be ruined beyond repair.

Has anyone else been in this position and how did you cope?

Wagon

****ing hell that's a tough one

Have you spoken to the father in detail about what he's been saying? Or have you just given him a general idea?

Cuddlesworth

If you were not married to the father, by Irish law he has absolutely no right to see the son. Get a good lawyer and refuse him all visitation rights. Considering what has happened most judges will air on the side of caution.

Wibbs

A terrible position to be in. All I can say is if it was me I would insist that he gets assessed by someone else. I would contact springboard again to see if they can fight in your corner too. I would leave no stone unturned. Basically never give up until someone listens to your concerns. Do NOT take no for an answer.

Oryx

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

If you were not married to the father, by Irish law he has absolutely no right to see the son. Get a good lawyer and refuse him all visitation rights. Considering what has happened most judges will air on the side of caution.

Sounds to me like the court has already been used to decide access which makes it tricky.

If I were the OP, I would go back to whoever did the legal work in the original access legalities. Ask their advice. As this has already been established in court, thats where you need to go back to imho. Your solicitor will be able to advise what to do, and whether an independant psychological assessment might be in order for your son.

Wagon

Oryx wrote: »

Sounds to me like the court has already been used to decide access which makes it tricky.

But that was taking into circumstances that the child's father was stable and providing a nice envoirnment. The original decision will change in a heartbeat if she can prove that the child is being abused.

niallm

Try Cari. http://www.cari.ie/

Karen_*

Don't let your son near his father again or go anywhere with him. If it were my son I'd fight this tooth and nail but I would never leave my son with his father. Make them listen to you even if its by the huge fuss you cause and dragging it back to court where you can tell all your concerns to a judge who will have to listen.

LegacyUser

I know a small amount about kids and their psychology, and if I were you I would not let that child anywhere near his father's house.He's displaying all the signs of a kid who has been ill-treated. I can't honestly believe that that's the conclusion they've reached. Can you afford to get him privately assessed in any way?I'd completely agree with Cari on this. Bed wetting might be a sign of a problem with separation anxiety or something, regardless of how long he's had the routine, but the rocking and wetting during the day point to something much more serious. Maybe try the GP again to be safe, but don't push it too much if it's distressing him.
Just don't take no for an answer from anyone.
Best of luck

TheminxIRL

Thanks for the replies, I will answer all the questions in one.

The first day that caused alarm bells was when my son came back from an overnight with his Dad and he cowered in the corner in the kitchen. I texted his Dad and asked if they had a row because the child was in floods of tears.

His response "he is going through puberty"

Once my son had calmed down and told me that his Dad had put him in the bath with him and his girlfriend and that his Dad had hurt him and he cried I rang. I was told to run along and play with *Ben. That is the dads answer to everything sarcasm.

I went to court three weeks ago because the Dad said I accused him of sexualy abusing our child, which I have not, I have never used the words more so because im afraid it makes it more real.

The judge gave him the bare minimum access wise and its now supervised.

We are due back on Jan 27th and the reports from the Child Assessment Unit are due for that.

I am so terrified that he will get away with it because my son wouldnt talk to a stranger in a ten minute meeting

The worst part is and thank god it can be proved this time, my sons Aunt (Dad's Sister) had made verbal statements approximately 4 years ago that she had been abused by someone in her house and had to look at them and smile like it had never happened.

When this came up in court, the dad said he had a statement from a mutal friend of his sister and me stating that the mutual friend had claimed she had been abused and that his sister only said it to make her feel better!!

This mutual friend had been lied to and I can understand why she would cover but she said that it was only to me she was going to lie, she did NOT write a statement and was shocked her name had been brought into court.

She has made a statement now with my solicitor saying this and my solicitor is going to ask that the statement be produced again in court.

My sons aunt is covering up abuse she suffered herself to save her familys name and allowing my child be hurt and despite me telling all the professionals this, nobody is listening

metrovelvet

Im so sickened to hear this is happenning to your son.

If I were you I would keep my son away from the father.

If access is supervised keep your eyes peeled at ever second and bring a tape recording device.

If the father says things like "hes going through puberty" when you try to talk to him, you are wasting your time with him and will only get frustrated.

My suggestion to you would be to get a child psychologist ASAP to try to gather the evidence. I dont want to upset you but if his penis is sore and the infections have been ruled out, there may be some thing more disturbing going on.

If you pm me I can give you the name of an individual in Ireland who has experience with these cases and may well be able to refer you to the specialists and legal consults that you need.

Wagon

TheminxIRL wrote: »

His response "he is going through puberty"

What a ****. Says it all really.

Talk to your solicitor IMMEDIATLY. You are actually lucky in one way, because you have the strength of the law behind you on this one, an unmarried father has absolutely no rights. Remember, the only reason your son went to see his father is because you wanted him to have a strong relationship with his dad. Speak to that solicitor and it'll be turned around very quick. Seriously, i wish you all the luck in the world on this one.

TheminxIRL

Thank you all for your well wishes.

The most frustrating part is the time delay between going to all the appointments, in the mean time, I have to by law still continue to allow my son see his Dad.

I even tried going to the guards to stop the access prior to the original court case and they asked him to forfeit his access until this was sorted and he got arsy with them saying he was his son and nobody will stop him seeing him. The guards called up to me after this and said that their hands were tied because there is a court order in place for access and they dont have the power to break it.

I honestly thought our social welfare system was there for the child but I cannot see it now and I thought that under the circumstances that as the child has named his father as the one hurting him that access would be stopped until his name was cleared if it was going to be.

I wouldnt wish this on my worst enemy.

metrovelvet

It is no less than evil that you now as his mother are being forced to send your son to a person of whom he is terrified and does not trust. I'm sickened. I can't express enough how much this disgusts me.

Lollipops23

what would happen if you just refused to hand the child over at the specified time?would he be stupid enough to kick up a fuss?i agree that it's pure evil to force a mother to hand her child over to someone who is making them so scared and unhappy.

Gyalist

Lollipops23 wrote: »

what would happen if you just refused to hand the child over at the specified time?would he be stupid enough to kick up a fuss?i agree that it's pure evil to force a mother to hand her child over to someone who is making them so scared and unhappy.

Nothing would happen. If he goes to the Guards they will probably come out to the house but they won't compel her to hand over the child. However, the judge may take a dim view of her actions when the case is heard.

TheminxIRL

My solicitor strongly advised against breaking the court order on the grounds that the Judge might be peed off at me at the next sitting in Jan.

Even the guards couldnt stop him taking him and they asked him under the circumstances would he not forfeit.

He would haul my ass back to court in the morning if I did and because the facts remain the same since the last time you would be in breech of a court order.

See the judge is caught too because if he had stopped all access at the first hearing, he would be seen to assume the dad's guilt and it has to be proven.

I can understand where that is coming from much as it distresses me

In$omniac

metrovelvet wrote: »

It is no less than evil that you now as his mother are being forced to send your son to a person of whom he is terrified and does not trust. I'm sickened. I can't express enough how much this disgusts me.

+1

As a parent I really feel for you, this is the nightmares of all nightmares any parent would dread having to go through.
I hope the 'dad' (I'm not sure if he merits that title) and his g/f are found out and brought to the hands of the law and punished accordingly.

Queencake

Try to get your son privately assessed between now and the court hearing. It doesn't sound like the first assessment will do anything to persuade the judge.


So have you arranged another assessment?

I hope things work out for your son xxx

Wagon

Your ex is the reason so many good men are being tarred with the same brush and being denied access on presumption. What really make me sick here is that he's actually getting away with mistreating your child :mad:

This is only a suggestion but is there anyone living in your ex's area that you know? Someone who could perhaps keep an eye on things, even through a window or maybe walking past a few times? Sounds pretty outlandish and stalkerish I know, but it's something to think about just in case, especially considering your hands are tied until the next hearing in January.

Another factor is your ex's girlfriend. Is she living with him or just staying over sometimes? If you haven't met her yet and maybe even if you just don't trust her, you might be able to chat to your solicitor and say that you aren't comfortable sending your son to the house while a stanger is present. See if you can maybe put a temporary barring order on the visits until after Christmas until the hearing?

Mikel

Is it possible to get your son to tell you what's going on? A long shot I know, but if he did surely you could justify taking action on those grounds?

cutymonalisa

OP, a few points to bear in mind that may be helpful in the impossible situation you find yourself in:

Has the social worker formally interviewed your childs father and have the concerns been put directly to him?

Have the Gardai been formally notified by the HSE of the allegation and if so has the HSE / SW Dept held a strategy meeting with the gardai as per Childrens First Guidelines?

Was the assessing professional a psychologist or social worker (perhaps were they are co-working the assessment) - either way have they been specifically trained in CSA (Child Sexual Abuse) interview techniques? It is a very specialised skill, not least in assessing a 3 year old. Psychs and SW's do a lot of extra training to do specialised interviews of pre school going children but they are rare.

Explore with the assessors if the sessions can be non clinically based i.e they may be able to deduce more if the child is in a familiar environment - at home, your mums etc..

When you say that the judge has now stipulated supervised access who is the supervisee - ie formal (SW) or informal (mutually agreeable family member / friend)?

Shout loud, insist on re-assessment before the next court date. It would also do no harm whatsoever that your solicitor formally write to the HSE requesting this - 'CC' the letter to whoever the senior is in the Assessment Unit along with the Social Work Team Leader / Principal Social Worker. That tends to make the HSE sit up and take notice.

As you already know your solicitor is right - do not under any circumstances break the court order. Is your solicitor an experienced in family law? I ask this as among the legal profession family law is not seen as particularily glamorous and its usually the less experienced solicitors that are allocated to family law in their practices. People in vulnerable positions such as yourself place great faith in their legal rep who by their nature are good spoofers = might come across as knowing their stuff but are often in effect winging it before the judge. Thoroughly check out his/her credentials and experience in the area.

It is likely that the judge will ask for a Section 20 report to be prepared for consideration - your solicitor should be able to tell you more about this.

All the very best OP.

EamonnKeane

Lollipops23 wrote: »

what would happen if you just refused to hand the child over at the specified time?would he be stupid enough to kick up a fuss?i agree that it's pure evil to force a mother to hand her child over to someone who is making them so scared and unhappy.

Bad idea; if she refuses to hand him over, that looks as if she's denying access to control the dad, and the logical step is that she's fabricated the accusations too. You don't want to get a reputation of being uncooperative.

Karen_*

I wouldn't care what it looked like to anyone. If I thought a child was being abused I wouldn't hand him over. Let the judge and the father and the solicitor be peed off. You have to protect that child at all costs and trust your own instinct. Ask the judge what he'd do if it were one of his kids. OP my heart goes out to you and I can almost feel your panic and distress.And I know you're going to fight for your little boy and he will be ok.

Sam Vimes

TheminxIRL wrote: »

Thank you all for your well wishes.

The most frustrating part is the time delay between going to all the appointments, in the mean time, I have to by law still continue to allow my son see his Dad.

tbh if i was you i wouldn't give a fuck about the law.

Sam Vimes

EamonnKeane wrote: »

Bad idea; if she refuses to hand him over, that looks as if she's denying access to control the dad, and the logical step is that she's fabricated the accusations too

to me the logical step would be that she doesn't want her child to be abused and is willing to break the law to prevent it

metrovelvet

Karen_* wrote: »

I wouldn't care what it looked like to anyone. If I thought a child was being abused I wouldn't hand him over. Let the judge and the father and the solicitor be peed off. You have to protect that child at all costs and trust your own instinct. Ask the judge what he'd do if it were one of his kids. OP my heart goes out to you and I can almost feel your panic and distress.And I know you're going to fight for your little boy and he will be ok.

I would be the same. I'd leave the country if I had to. No way anyone is doing that to my son, court order or no court order.

Anti

Im with Sam on this. No way if i had a child would i allow it to go somewhere where he is obvious afraid of. F*&k the law on this one, if the judge/social worker/whoever cant see this is disturbing you and yoru child then he needs to cop the F*&k on.

metrovelvet

Is there anyway you can apply for an emergency appeal or injunction?

Can you get a doctor's note saying he is too distressed to go to his dad's?

Gyalist

metrovelvet wrote: »

I would be the same. I'd leave the country if I had to. No way anyone is doing that to my son, court order or no court order.

A good friend of mine had to do just that. Some years later though she was detained at Rome airport under the Hague Convention while in transit to the US. Luckily, the female Italian judge who heard her case was sympathetic and released her.

McGinty

Hi Op

First of I commend you doing all you can within the law, however, I have had some similar experiences, well not directly but well I'll give you my account and you can draw from it whatever:-

My sons aunt is covering up abuse she suffered herself to save her familys name and allowing my child be hurt and despite me telling all the professionals this, nobody is listening

It sounds like to me that your son is being abused by his dad, I say this on two accounts, the sexualised language, the rocking and bed wetting.

I was abused for many years and displayed similar behaviour. Like your sister in law above for a long time I hid it, smiled and played the game.

Since then I have reported my brother to the social services, he is married with four children, I wrote a letter in Feb 08, again in May 08 and August 08, the response so far has been - nothing. I contacted One in four Organisation, they have written to the social services - response is zilch so far. He could be doing all sorts to his kids right now but the authorities are doing nothing. What I draw from this is that you cannot always depend on the law, your son needs protection if the law won;t do it, you need to, and that means no contact. The problem with this issue is no one wants to deal with it, but those who suffer it have to and we owe it to children to protect them. My family continue to protect my brother even after what he did to me, and the fact that another sister he abused has killed herself, in effect his actions contributed to her death. I have no contact with my family except for one sister because of this. In order to protect your child you have to be ruthless.

Now because I had such a ****ed up self esteem, I ended up marrying a sexual pervert in 1996, I divorced him in 1998, he is English and lives in the Uk,at first I let him see his son, he only visisted twice, then my ex helped someone who was being invesitgated for paedophila move from one area to another area, when I learned of that, I ended all contact, that was several years ago, my ex still tries to find ways of contacting my son but I won't allow it, I don't give a **** if I break the law, his safety and sanity comes first. You may look bad in the eys of the law but its a small price to pay for safety. You need to look at this situation in the eye, I know you said you don't want to admit that your ex has been sexually abusive but all the signs point to that, he sounds very disturbed, and I picked that up immediately, now if I am overreacting and wrong (please God I am) then dismiss all I've said. It is most important that your son can depend on you, he needs you, and it is also important that both of you get help, there are child psychologists who know it takes more than ten minutes to help a child. It takes weeks/months/ heck even years.

jen_23

That is a very difficult situation to be in. Are all of your sons visits being supervised at the moment?
I would make a diary in preparation for the court date outlining all of the incidences where your son came home crying and not himself.
Get a copy of the medical report where your son had to go to be checked by the doctor as he was complaining of a sore penis.
Also I agree with queencake get your son assessed privately so that you have an armful of amunition with you for going to court.

I hope you can get his access taken away.

MsFifers

Could you get a sympathetic GP to certify your son as too sick to go on his supervised visits until the case is up? There are terrible flus going around....

I don't know enough about the process to offer anything except sympathy. I think it sounds like you are doing everything you possibly can for your son. Its easy for other people to say - go ahead & break the law, but, as you know, it could backfire dreadfully.

You have my sympathy - I hope it works out soon.

Queencake

MsFifers wrote: »

Could you get a sympathetic GP to certify your son as too sick to go on his supervised visits until the case is up? There are terrible flus going around....

Definiately go about this angle in the short term. Breaking the terms of the visiting rights blatently will backfire on you but bending them won't offend judges especially if you have a GP fighting your corner.

I hope the OP updates. I think this story has really struck a cord with many posters. It's a terrible situation for your family.

metrovelvet

Gyalist wrote: »

A good friend of mine had to do just that. Some years later though she was detained at Rome airport under the Hague Convention while in transit to the US. Luckily, the female Italian judge who heard her case was sympathetic and released her.

She's lucky she had a sympathetic judge. If the legal system failed me and my son I would change both of our identities and leave.

Yeah, I may look bad in the eyes of the law, but I'd prefer to that to looking bad in the eyes of my son and see pain, horror, betrayal and sex abuse by a parent.

MCGinty - your post illustrates so well how behind an abuser there is an entire community backing him/her up, and sadly in OPs case the law is part of the community which is enabling the abuse.

mollybird

like everyone who has posted when i read your situtuation first, alarm bells were ringing. i'm a 3rd year applied social care student and i have studied a small bit on child abuse and child psychology. you really should try and get in contact with CARI. they are an organisation who work specifically with children who have been or might be abused. i can see why you son would not talk to the asser. to talk to a child who has been traumtised it needs to be done in a child friendly enviroment. also maybe see if he can see a art therapist. this i have studied a good bit and read lots of books on it. a child that cannot speak about what has happened majority of the time. you will get an answer out of your son faster and easier by having them draw pictures about the events. there are books out there that you can read about what art therapy does for young children.

anyhow the very best of luck. xxx

Semele

You need to keep pushing for another assessment- go private if you can afford to.

Make sure your son knows he can tell you anything without worrying about getting himself or anyone else into trouble. You don't know what threats he might be getting on the other side as to what will happen if he "tells".

Further than this though I would advise against questioning him yourself. The issue of children's testimony is a thorny area legally as it can't be guaranteed that they a) understand the difference between truth and fantasy, b) aren't just saying what they think people want to hear and c) have any understanding of the possible consequences of telling/not telling.

If you push him too much to talk it may be an issue later that you had been putting words in his mouth by asking leading questions, and that he was just saying what he thought you wanted him to. This type of questioning needs to be done by a professional so that it can stand up in court if/when it comes to that.

As I said though, make sure he knows he can tell you anything, and keep a record of anything he says or any incidents that occur. Ask your mother to do so also.