Reason for Falling numbers in the FCÁ/RDF?

segaBOY

Strength of Reserve Defence Forces/FCÁ

2007 Officers 669 NCOs 2,418 Ptes 5,559 Total 8,646
2006 Officers 682 NCOs 2,553 Ptes 5,899 Total 9,134
2005 Officers 688 NCOs 2,740 Ptes 7,408 Total 10,833
2004 Officers 719 NCOs 2,987 Ptes 9,063 Total 12,769
2003 Officers 733 NCOs 2,946 Ptes 9,853 Total 13,532

Source Gov Dáil Debates
15,496 in 1997.
14,748 in 1996. (An Slua prob not included here I reckon)Source

And finally 1983 — 16,994; 1984 — 14,477; 1985 — 14,301; 1986 — 14,351; 1987 — 14,522.

Found these on the www.oireachtas-debates.gov.ie

I think you get the general picture-the strength of the reserves has decreased quite a bit over the last few years.

Just wondering why you think this has happened?
Recently seems to me like it's the re-org. Was that due to non-effective members being kept on the books and moving some units causing loss of numbers?

minidazzler

The numbers on the books in no way reflects the number of Reservists who are actually training.

segaBOY

minidazzler wrote: »

The numbers on the books in no way reflects the number of Reservists who are actually training.

True, I hear if you haven't turned up for 6 months (open to correction here) you should be put on the non-effective list-however lads still only ever turn up for annual camp in my unit-only a small minority I must say.

minidazzler

segaBOY wrote: »

True, I hear if you haven't turned up for 6 months (open to correction here) you should be put on the non-effective list-however lads still only ever turn up for annual camp in my unit-only a small minority I must say.

Should is a funny word in the RDF.

In the RDF Regs can be taken and looked at abstractly to help the good ole lads. So SHOULD, is a word that Should not be used.

segaBOY

minidazzler wrote: »

Should is a funny word in the RDF.

In the RDF Regs can be taken and looked at abstractly to help the good ole lads. So SHOULD, is a word that Should not be used.

fair point

eroo

Tbh, there's not much there to entice anyone to stay on. I'm in it 14 months, got sworn in 2 months ago and I still don't have a uniform. I haven't been down to my unit in 5 weeks because I don't see the point unless I have a uniform. I've done the recruit training, but I couldn't go on camp because someone never sent away a bunch of security clearances. Then most nights I go down I see guys/gals who I hadn't seen all year, turn up and no questions asked. One 3* came in one night without his beret; ''I left it at home''.

That is the reason numbers are dwindling. I missed 3 parade nights last year; I was mad up for it. But not anywhere near as much nowadays. Simply because it isn't run properly, and the regular noshowers(ALL ranks) can do what they like..

segaBOY

eroo wrote: »

Tbh, there's not much there to entice anyone to stay on. I'm in it 14 months, got sworn in 2 months ago and I still don't have a uniform. I haven't been down to my unit in 5 weeks because I don't see the point unless I have a uniform. I've done the recruit training, but I couldn't go on camp because someone never sent away a bunch of security clearances. Then most nights I go down I see guys/gals who I hadn't seen all year, turn up and no questions asked. One 3* came in one night without his beret; ''I left it at home''.

That is the reason numbers are dwindling. I missed 3 parade nights last year; I was mad up for it. But not anywhere near as much nowadays. Simply because it isn't run properly, and the regular noshowers(ALL ranks) can do what they like..

Stick it out until the summer-when you get to go on your first camp you'll enjoy it. Not the way it should be but if you just relax and don't expect things to be done as fast as they should (or at a medium pace for that matter) you'll have a good time

Seriously though camps are where it happens so stick it out mate

...and when you get your uniform (I was waiting a good year and a half) you'll be sick of having to wear it in a few weeks

Skyhawk1990

+1 on sticking it out. The camps are great.

I'd put the fall in numbers down to the Government finding everyway possible to screw the Reserve over. The grat and no employment protection for example.
Also with some people and finding a little bit of difficulty and then thinking screw this I'm leaving.

eroo

Lads, I've heard enough about camps to last me a lifetime!

segaBOY

eroo wrote: »

Lads, I've heard enough about camps to last me a lifetime!

Boo hoo just stick it out mo chara!! It'll be a few weeks paid work during the summer for what is a great experience.

Btw bring a sense of humour on camp-recruits will need one

Skyhawk1990

eroo you'll hear enough about them to last you two lifetimes. That's just how great they are!:D

Never mind just the recruits you need to have one with you at all times!:)

segaBOY

Skyhawk1990 wrote: »

eroo you'll hear enough about them to last you two lifetimes. That's just how great they are!:D

Never mind just the recruits you need to have one with you at all times!:)

True, I just fecking hate having to go to the C/S for the keys to the square!!

Anyway-any more theories about falling numbers?

Skyhawk1990

What about the bucket of steam from the Q that's a pain in the a**?

Wacko

I wonder if I am still counted as a member, I filled in all the forms and went and failed the medical for colour blindness (about 9 months ago) then I got a phone call the other day asking me if I wanted to go for a medical ! Record keeping must be great.

Wacko

segaBOY wrote: »

True, I just fecking hate having to go to the C/S for the keys to the square!!

Anyway-any more theories about falling numbers?

Not being funny here but the RDF attracts a lot of 17/18 year olds, I would say they find it better fun to go out playing airsoft with a Steyr. just a theory.

Skyhawk1990

fair point I suppose they think why be shouted at when I can do all this stuff without being in the Army. They're loss to be honest they're the ones that are missing out.

also it could be the amount of time waiting to get the forms over and done with. i suppose that sorts out the people that want to do it from the people that will hopefully stick it out.

eroo

Skyhawk1990 wrote: »

also it could be the amount of time waiting to get the forms over and done with. i suppose that sorts out the people that want to do it from the people that will hopefully stick it out.

But the point is, there shouldn't have to be any 'sticking it out'. I know of several people who were really interested in it but left because certain people were too lazy to do anything.

Skyhawk1990

eroo wrote: »

But the point is, there shouldn't have to be any 'sticking it out'. I know of several people who were really interested in it but left because certain people were too lazy to do anything.

I agree that it takes too long and the current system needs to be changed. at the same time fair play for waiting the amount of time you did. anyway back to topic. i've been kept back myself cause certain people are too lazy to do anything. i know how frustrating it is.

what i was saying was with the current system it turns people off and some of those people are people that would be a hinderance to your unit but you do miss out on some great people. hence why i said that.

eroo

Skyhawk1990 wrote: »

I agree that it takes too long and the current system needs to be changed. at the same time fair play for waiting the amount of time you did. anyway back to topic. i've been kept back myself cause certain people are too lazy to do anything. i know how frustrating it is.

what i was saying was with the current system it turns people off and some of those people are people that would be a hinderance to your unit but you do miss out on some great people. hence why i said that.

Tbh, what's needed in the RDF are new officers and Cadre staff! Why not put Cadets in charge of RDF units during their Cadet training? It'd give them experience in running a unit, while they'd also be pro-active as their actions would be under the scope. Some units get nothing much done..

In my opinion

eroo wrote: »

Tbh, what's needed in the RDF are new officers and Cadre staff! Why not put Cadets in charge of RDF units during their Cadet training? It'd give them experience in running a unit, while they'd also be pro-active as their actions would be under the scope. Some units get nothing much done..

Wait that is one of the most foolish posts I have ever seen!:eek:

Now lets have a reality check Cadets in charge of something?? Cadets hold no rank, cadets are students, An Army Reserve unit is a very complex and challenging unit and believe it or not it is where all skills of an officer are tested.

You take the average Cft in charge of a reserve unit. He has a PDF cadre to manage 4 infantry coys and lots of year round activity. Promise you its not a job for a cadet.

In my opinion

segaBOY wrote: »

Strength of Reserve Defence Forces/FCÁ

2007 Officers 669 NCOs 2,418 Ptes 5,559 Total 8,646
2006 Officers 682 NCOs 2,553 Ptes 5,899 Total 9,134
2005 Officers 688 NCOs 2,740 Ptes 7,408 Total 10,833
2004 Officers 719 NCOs 2,987 Ptes 9,063 Total 12,769
2003 Officers 733 NCOs 2,946 Ptes 9,853 Total 13,532

Source Gov Dáil Debates
15,496 in 1997.
14,748 in 1996. (An Slua prob not included here I reckon)Source

And finally 1983 — 16,994; 1984 — 14,477; 1985 — 14,301; 1986 — 14,351; 1987 — 14,522.

Found these on the www.oireachtas-debates.gov.ie

I think you get the general picture-the strength of the reserves has decreased quite a bit over the last few years.

Just wondering why you think this has happened?
Recently seems to me like it's the re-org. Was that due to non-effective members being kept on the books and moving some units causing loss of numbers?

Lots has happened.
1. Size of infantry coy is smaller 155 down to 133.
2. Number of units and sub units has reduced.
3. Lots of people are disillusioned with the set up.
4. Reserve is becoming more demanding eg time and preperation.
5. No real effort put into retention. Big effort into recruit training.
6. More realistic 451's with a high number of unfavourable comments.
7. Desire from Lts. that their platoon is good means old sweats are feeling heat.
8. Grant in Aid no longer paid by the number on roll book therefore more people are NE and then removed.
9. No longer is it the local detective unit that clear people hence the process takes longer.
10.Longer pre enlistment process.
11.Young people are in part time jobs and must choose.
12. Too many female recruits who do not stay as active. Before you blow a gasket check the facts over 50% recruits are female trace up the line and give % of NCO's and Officers.

Those are some of the issues there are lots more.

Officers down 9% NCOs 18% Ptes 44% overall down 36%. Figures speak for themselves.

Finally we have 112 applications to join. We can only bring 15 recruits on camp. Thats my coy. Those are the facts and also you do not count as a member until you have completed basic camp according to returns etc.

Feedback please.

segaBOY

eroo wrote: »

Tbh, what's needed in the RDF are new officers and Cadre staff! Why not put Cadets in charge of RDF units during their Cadet training? It'd give them experience in running a unit, while they'd also be pro-active as their actions would be under the scope. Some units get nothing much done..

1. How are you going to get a Cadet from the curragh to a unit in say, Cork every Tuesday night-that's at least 5 hours travelling back and forth!
2. Cadets are students themselves, they have no previous experience of how things are done-like handing someone who can't drive the keys to a bus with a full load of people!!
3. Cadetship training lasts for about 16 months, that means a unit will have a new commander every 16 months-and bare in mind the new Cadet that takes over will have no previous experience either-back to square one!
4. Do you really think any top brass in the RDF will support this or even the RDFRA?
5. Do you want membership to fall to a few hundred? Just wondering...

segaBOY

In my opinion wrote: »

Lots has happened.
1. Size of infantry coy is smaller 155 down to 133.
2. Number of units and sub units has reduced.
3. Lots of people are disillusioned with the set up.
4. Reserve is becoming more demanding eg time and preperation.
5. No real effort put into retention. Big effort into recruit training.
6. More realistic 451's with a high number of unfavourable comments.
7. Desire from Lts. that their platoon is good means old sweats are feeling heat.
8. Grant in Aid no longer paid by the number on roll book therefore more people are NE and then removed.
9. No longer is it the local detective unit that clear people hence the process takes longer.
10.Longer pre enlistment process.
11.Young people are in part time jobs and must choose.
12. Too many female recruits who do not stay as active. Before you blow a gasket check the facts over 50% recruits are female trace up the line and give % of NCO's and Officers.

Those are some of the issues there are lots more.

Officers down 9% NCOs 18% Ptes 44% overall down 36%. Figures speak for themselves.

Finally we have 112 applications to join. We can only bring 15 recruits on camp. Thats my coy. Those are the facts and also you do not count as a member until you have completed basic camp according to returns etc.

Feedback please.

Have all the units really pulled out all the stops to recruit this year? It seems to be that way across the board.

Well now, 112 applicants for 15 places is tough-perhaps you could hold a practical/written test after 4-5 months of parade nights to see how much they have learned, also check attendance and maybe that could show those who will make the best recruits?

About Coys being merged/disbanded, I noticed that before there where a lot of small sub units of the FCA opperating throughout the country, in my area there was one in my local village and there was the same in other villages nearby but AFAIK they used all go on camps with the unit in the local town etc. Used that actually happen or was I just dreaming? They seem to all have been gotten rid of now.

In my opinion

segaBOY wrote: »

Have all the units really pulled out all the stops to recruit this year? It seems to be that way across the board.

Well now, 112 applicants for 15 places is tough-perhaps you could hold a practical/written test after 4-5 months of parade nights to see how much they have learned, also check attendance and maybe that could show those who will make the best recruits?

About Coys being merged/disbanded, I noticed that before there where a lot of small sub units of the FCA operating throughout the country, in my area there was one in my local village and there was the same in other villages nearby but AFAIK they used all go on camps with the unit in the local town etc. Used that actually happen or was I just dreaming? They seem to all have been gotten rid of now.

Spot on. The FCA was always organised on a Bn format. Each Bn had 4/5 Coys and each Coy would have had a number of centres. All the centres were closed at time of re org. The local centres were as you referred to the local village. Now night parades would have been at local centres (community centre etc.) and at coy hq. Field days etc at Coy Hq or Bn Hq.

The training centres were just that and it was a very important part of the training. The rural ethos has gone and everything is being over centralised. I know a unit which has a 30 mile radius and no transport to bring members into training. Now try and retain people!

Times are changing but they changed before and will change again we can adapt and overcome and we will.



That comment about cadets is really bugging me. I am so furious that a person who claims to be a member of the reserve can be so insulting to me and others like me who are involved with the army reserve for the last 18 years. To suggest that a trainee soldier without a rank should be in command of an Army Reserve Unit is a disgrace.

Its an insult to PDF Commissioned Officers, to RDF Commissioned Officers, to PDF NCO's and RDF NCO's and also to experienced PDF and RDF privates all who work hard to keep the reserve going strong. Those who support youngsters who join,, try and put shooting teams and orienteering teams out. Train them. Train troops according to syllabus, account for state property and money entrusted to them to use and spend, provide a public face on public parades in the community, be a positive recruiting ground for the PDF, fill the vacuum as required providing duties in Bks etc etc. We are the poor relation because of an inferiority complex and a lot of half cocked rubbish being spouted.

The army reserve to the best of my knowledge have done all that was asked of them again this year. Any officer will tell you all that has been done in your unit. Its not all about training nights!!

segaBOY

In my opinion wrote: »

Spot on. The FCA was always organised on a Bn format. Each Bn had 4/5 Coys and each Coy would have had a number of centres. All the centres were closed at time of re org. The local centres were as you referred to the local village. Now night parades would have been at local centres (community centre etc.) and at coy hq. Field days etc at Coy Hq or Bn Hq.

The training centres were just that and it was a very important part of the training. The rural ethos has gone and everything is being over centralised. I know a unit which has a 30 mile radius and no transport to bring members into training. Now try and retain people!

Times are changing but they changed before and will change again we can adapt and overcome and we will.



That comment about cadets is really bugging me. I am so furious that a person who claims to be a member of the reserve can be so insulting to me and others like me who are involved with the army reserve for the last 18 years. To suggest that a trainee soldier without a rank should be in command of an Army Reserve Unit is a disgrace.

Its an insult to PDF Commissioned Officers, to RDF Commissioned Officers, to PDF NCO's and RDF NCO's and also to experienced PDF and RDF privates all who work hard to keep the reserve going strong. Those who support youngsters who join,, try and put shooting teams and orienteering teams out. Train them. Train troops according to syllabus, account for state property and money entrusted to them to use and spend, provide a public face on public parades in the community, be a positive recruiting ground for the PDF, fill the vacuum as required providing duties in Bks etc etc. We are the poor relation because of an inferiority complex and a lot of half cocked rubbish being spouted.

The army reserve to the best of my knowledge have done all that was asked of them again this year. Any officer will tell you all that has been done in your unit. Its not all about training nights!!

I'm from rural Ireland myself and that certainly is a problem-I've only been in the RDF for about 3 years so excuse my lack of knowledge of how it used to be organised before!

What I think is going to happen is there will be the Integrated reserve and the second rank general reserves. Eventually using different tactics (new grat rules and taxing RDF wages a good example) the "second rank" will be scaled back and we will see a force of no more than 4,000-5,000 in a few years.

Retention is a bit of a joke in my view but besides "improving the RDF" which I think all units are trying their best to do there is nothing anyone can do, my unit is trying to recruit as much as they can (have around 50 new comers) but in all honesty I'd be suprised if no more than 3 or 4 of the lads will stay on. What a waste of a uniform.

Evd-Burner

There's roomers spreading around my coy that theres no recruiting hit January. All to do with defence forces expenditure going down.

deiseff

Offer my opinion,

In my local unit, there is alot of issues bugging people.
1) Junior members are giving lectures to members with a couple of years experience. They have recieved no training in how to give a lecture and to be honest are only reading from a book and have no understanding of what they are saying. I understand there trying to get experience but when it goes on for months, liturally every week, giving the same lecture over with a different person giving it every week. Whats the point? Why should i and others turn up and give up football training/work for this?

2) In my unit and i stress my unit and wont comment on any other unit. Cadree staff are discressfull. They dont organise training. Pay out a weeks camp to people who dont turn up regulary and dont even do the weeks camp but recieve the pay for it. Reason there female and cadre wants there hole, its as simple as that. There is members who are living outside the county, on the NE list still get invited to nights out while the people that regular turn up for training are told there are not in long enough.Thease NE list members still get their 40 odd days per year camp money without even doing a days work. They only relise they got it when the money is in there account!!

3) The same NE list members are have recieved there grat duty having not turned up once for the whole year. Reason cadree staff just adds there name to the list after a parade or shoot.

4) While all that is going on the ordnary private that turns up with ironed uniform every week and puts in the effort gets over looked. Thease privates may miss one or two parades due to work or family commitments or in some cases school tests. Thease a totally disregarded and are looked over for training and camps.

5) Cadree staff are in a handy position in the PDF. Once the books are in order, which they tarted up to make themselves look good there grand. They get a good wage for doing nothing much maybe a hour or two work each day.

6) Complints have gone in about a certain NCO about bulling over a number of years and still nothing done. This NCO is responsible for at least 30 people leaving over a number of years. Not all due to bulling but due to people not willing to turn up and listen to his power trips.

I stress that i only speak for my on unit and am no way implying that all cadree staff are like this. There is people in my unit with great leadership skills and great knowledge of what there are doing being over looked while alot of females are being put fwd for cources they dont deserve and ultimately end up failing because they end up on the piss and going out with regulars. Thats my honest obversion of my unit, I know alot probably wont like it but no point posting fibs.

concussion

In my opinion wrote: »

To suggest that a trainee soldier without a rank should be in command of an Army Reserve Unit is a disgrace.

A Cadet has the rank of 3* Private.





The rest I agree with. Also Eroo, if your unit is fcuking you about, come down to our unit, we've a very busy training schedule and recruit training has a big priority.

segaBOY

concussion wrote: »

A Cadet has the rank of 3* Private.





The rest I agree with. Also Eroo, if your unit is fcuking you about, come down to our unit, we've a very busy training schedule and recruit training has a big priority.

AFAIK they hold the lowest "rank" in the army, scum so they are...until the 16 months is up

concussion

segaBOY wrote: »

AFAIK they hold the lowest "rank" in the army, scum so they are...until the 16 months is up

The lowest rank is G1 - Cadets are private soldiers until commissioned.

Lockstep

Wacko wrote: »

Not being funny here but the RDF attracts a lot of 17/18 year olds, I would say they find it better fun to go out playing airsoft with a Steyr. just a theory.

I noticed a lot of chubby chainsmoking girls on recruit camp who dropped out very quickly.

They just joined up for the money and assumed camp would be like the gael thucht with guns.

segaBOY

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I noticed a lot of chubby chainsmoking girls on recruit camp who dropped out very quickly.

They just joined up for the money and assumed camp would be like the gael thucht with guns.

Waste of uniform...

deiseff

segaBOY wrote: »

Waste of uniform...

Blame your officers for letting thease people through. They should hav disipline drilled in them before they go on camp

Borneo Fnctn

deiseff wrote: »

Blame your officers for letting thease people through. They should hav disipline drilled in them before they go on camp

I see what you mean but you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Some of the dregs just aren't cut out for soldiering.

Lockstep

It was a joke to be honest, one in particular didn't participate for days on end as she claimed to have a busted knee from all the marching but would be fine the rest of the time.
She was eventually sent back.
Medics got so sick of people pulling sickies that they sent everyone back who was going for Lightduty.


It got to the stage where those who needed the medic were afraid of going to them as they didn't want to be sent home.

deiseff

Surley if there are not cut out for soldiring thease should be spotted before they are sent on camp and the correct actions taken.
Too many females in there now that are being moddle cuddled

segaBOY

deiseff wrote: »

Blame your officers for letting thease people through. They should hav disipline drilled in them before they go on camp

True enuf, units seem to be desperate for numbers over quality soldiers-tbh I think it's equally the recruits fault for joining up "for the craic", if you can't handle a bit of marching you're not going to be much use when the Ruskies are coming!!

Local-womanizer

deiseff wrote: »

Surley if there are not cut out for soldiring thease should be spotted before they are sent on camp and the correct actions taken.
Too many females in there now that are being moddle cuddled

The same can be said for many males in fairness.On my camp there was many a dedicated females,put more effort in than most of the lads and never complained once.It can be hard to spot if someone isent cut out for a camp in fairness,people could have no problem with field nights but might hate the fact your stuck in barracks for 2 weeks straight with complete strangers.......

Saying that,if people drop out all their gear should be taken back,its not like these people are on the run after,they can be found easily.

Being drilled before is a good idea and it seemed to work with us.We were more than capable of marching,and very competant with the steyr by the time we got to camp.People would also have had a fair idea if they would stick the camp beforehand too,with us everybody did.

-boris

eroo wrote: »

Tbh, there's not much there to entice anyone to stay on. I'm in it 14 months, got sworn in 2 months ago and I still don't have a uniform. I haven't been down to my unit in 5 weeks because I don't see the point unless I have a uniform. I've done the recruit training, but I couldn't go on camp because someone never sent away a bunch of security clearances. Then most nights I go down I see guys/gals who I hadn't seen all year, turn up and no questions asked. One 3* came in one night without his beret; ''I left it at home''.

That is the reason numbers are dwindling. I missed 3 parade nights last year; I was mad up for it. But not anywhere near as much nowadays. Simply because it isn't run properly, and the regular noshowers(ALL ranks) can do what they like..

wtf?i'm in it less than 3 months.I already have been sworn in and have been issued with mu uniform and army number!where are you based?

-boris

eroo wrote: »

Tbh, there's not much there to entice anyone to stay on. I'm in it 14 months, got sworn in 2 months ago and I still don't have a uniform. I haven't been down to my unit in 5 weeks because I don't see the point unless I have a uniform. I've done the recruit training, but I couldn't go on camp because someone never sent away a bunch of security clearances. Then most nights I go down I see guys/gals who I hadn't seen all year, turn up and no questions asked. One 3* came in one night without his beret; ''I left it at home''.

That is the reason numbers are dwindling. I missed 3 parade nights last year; I was mad up for it. But not anywhere near as much nowadays. Simply because it isn't run properly, and the regular noshowers(ALL ranks) can do what they like..

wtf?i'm in it less than 3 months.I already have been sworn in and have been issued with my uniform and army number!where are you based?

bunny shooter

Local-womanizer wrote: »

..........Being drilled before is a good idea and it seemed to work with us.We were more than capable of marching,and very competant with the steyr by the time we got to camp.People would also have had a fair idea if they would stick the camp beforehand too,with us everybody did.

what unit you with? PM me if preferred. I instructed recruits last year and this was my and the other NCO's attitude. We were told to ease up on the recruits by some more senior NCO's, but unfortunately the Officer I/C of the recruit platoon picked us for a reason

The recruits are back now as 2*'s and they are going to make good 3*'s too.

Local-womanizer

bunny shooter wrote: »

what unit you with? PM me if preferred. I instructed recruits last year and this was my and the other NCO's attitude. We were told to ease up on the recruits by some more senior NCO's, but unfortunately the Officer I/C of the recruit platoon picked us for a reason

The recruits are back now as 2*'s and they are going to make good 3*'s too.

I sent a pm there.Everyone enjoyed the training beforehand.Thats what we signed up for and we dident know any better at the time until other recruits had siad that they hardly touched the steyr before they got to camp.

deiseff

I know from both sides of the pdf, spent 2years as reserve and then went fulltime for three years and since left and went back on the books as reserve.

The recruits are getting away with murder, in my unit and again i only speek for my unit, potential............................................."potential NCO's" are training recruits. So to be honest there is no hope. thease potenitals, potential nco are only learning themselves and make plenty of mistakes. but not to worry after they insert a small miserable bit of disipline its all un done afterwards as they all go for a drink afterwards and the recruit women now become above the law as all the senior members and nco's try there best to pull them with there stripes.
Its disharting as there is genuinr talent it the unit

segaBOY

Skyhawk1990 wrote: »

What about the bucket of steam from the Q that's a pain in the a**?

Local-womanizer

Skyhawk1990 wrote: »

What about the bucket of steam from the Q that's a pain in the a**?

Go down to the Q for a long stand,thats a pain in the a**!

greenarrow

deiseff wrote: »

I know from both sides of the pdf, spent 2years as reserve and then went fulltime for three years and since left and went back on the books as reserve.

The recruits are getting away with murder, in my unit and again i only speek for my unit, potential............................................."potential NCO's" are training recruits. So to be honest there is no hope. thease potenitals, potential nco are only learning themselves and make plenty of mistakes. but not to worry after they insert a small miserable bit of disipline its all un done afterwards as they all go for a drink afterwards and the recruit women now become above the law as all the senior members and nco's try there best to pull them with there stripes.
Its disharting as there is genuinr talent it the unit

Potential NCOs shouldn't be training troops. They are still privates.
You should be maintaining the discipline in your troops. And if a senior NCO is usurping your authority, then pull them to the side and tell them you are not happy. If that doesn't work, then go for a redress. That system is in place for RDF personnel too. Just like it is for PDF personnel.

And if your NCOs are trying to get their leg over then that's a sad show of affairs for your CO because he obviously can't instill discipline in his troops. Or professionalism for that matter. And your recruits shouldn't be drinking because the majority of them would be underage anyway.
Give me a bash with your unit and I would bloody well give them a reality check of what it means to wear a uniform. And I am sure that a lot of my fellow NCOs would come along on that camp for the sheer fun of it.

There's nothing like knocking slackers into shape I can tell you.

deiseff

greenarrow wrote: »

Potential NCOs shouldn't be training troops. They are still privates.
You should be maintaining the discipline in your troops. And if a senior NCO is usurping your authority, then pull them to the side and tell them you are not happy. If that doesn't work, then go for a redress. That system is in place for RDF personnel too. Just like it is for PDF personnel.

And if your NCOs are trying to get their leg over then that's a sad show of affairs for your CO because he obviously can't instill discipline in his troops. Or professionalism for that matter. And your recruits shouldn't be drinking because the majority of them would be underage anyway.
Give me a bash with your unit and I would bloody well give them a reality check of what it means to wear a uniform. And I am sure that a lot of my fellow NCOs would come along on that camp for the sheer fun of it.

There's nothing like knocking slackers into shape I can tell you.

Good responce
unfoftunly im only a private aswell so dont have much of a voice and when i do open my mouth am seen as a trouble maker because im upsetting the ststus quoe. Like i also said i spent time in the PDF so have more experience that most of them in the unit including the senior nco's and on a regular basis they come askin my advice on certain matters!! But then expects me to sit through the same lecture for the thirt time over about some basic military stuff. I wouldnt mind if there were potential nco's but there not even that, there pre-potentials NCO's which makes it even worse. One of them is goin out with the cadree staff another is riding another one and the other one god love him tries his best!
All that seems to matter is if numbers a passing through and people are going on camps, on the books everythin looks fine but the standard is just miserable and no one cares.
We all drink in a certain pub and if your a member of the unit its no problem getting served there, I have being drinking since i was 16!

greenarrow

Well that's no excuse. Become an NCO and then change things. Having stripes is all about leadership.
So what if you get seen as a troublemaker. If you are in the right then there is nothing that can be said back to you. And you'll be surprised where you will find allies if you do

deiseff

greenarrow wrote: »

Well that's no excuse. Become an NCO and then change things. Having stripes is all about leadership.
So what if you get seen as a troublemaker. If you are in the right then there is nothing that can be said back to you. And you'll be surprised where you will find allies if you do

Dont have time to go and do a NCO's cource with work commints, and also am a proven leder.

greenarrow

Or alternatively you could mention it to someone in the PDF and "misreport" it in a fashion that will see the PDF want to get involved and make them get their **** together. Doing it anonymously would be the order of the day.

I don't have a problem with the RDF in general. I think there are enough good people there, but I think that the majority of the bad things get noticed yet they are done by the minority.
I do think that the drink culture is a big thing with the RDF because for the majority of people in it, its the first time they ever get served alcohol. I wouldn't be naive enough to say their first taste of alcohol, although in some cases that is true. But at the end of the day, as an NCO you have a responsibilty to look out for these younger troops. letting them get hammered is downright irresponsible. Its a problem that is on the decrease though. But it shouldn't even exist though.

Hence the problem with disciplining those troops. I mean if you are drinking with them constantly, then there is no distinguishing line between NCO and private. By all means, you shouldn't distance yourself from them to the point where they are strangers to you...but you need to draw the line and let them know who is boss.
You're NCOs (and take this how you like) are a bloody disgrace if they are drinking with their troops and looking for their leg over. And your CO and your Company Sergeant should be given their discharge papers. Well the officer should be asked to retire I mean.

I mean, lets be honest. Growing up and alcohol go together in your teenage years for the majority of people. And if you're in the RDF, then you would have to love it. But the NCOs shouldn't be allowing those recruits to drink full stop. Especially if they are under 18. Fake ID or no fake ID....recruits should never be allowed drink on annual training.

deiseff

Jesus you dont know what your missing out on, this year on camp out of 12 days of camp, there was drinking on 12 of thoese nights not including the night out when they came back. I siht you not.
Its hard to hold the CO responsible when he'd in there drinking aswell and the signing the bill for food and a few sly ones,
How can you go and complain when from top to bottom there all involved, As you said go to the PDF and do it on the sly, i wouldnt trust that at all as everyone in the barracks are well connected.

Shame as were loosing alot of our members to other oganisations in the locality.