Does anyone else agree?

Zascar

I'm not sure if I am alone here, but over the last while I have just been getting very bored and pissed off with boards. This is mainly due to a problem that happens mostly in the After Hours forum, but many others too. I wanted to share my thoughts here and see if anyone agrees or what others think.

I've been on this forum a long time, but it seems to me the quality of actual "discussion" has been on a slow spiral downwards. I think boards is a very different place than it was in the early days. People seem to be far more concerned with trying to be smart or say something funny, than contributing positively to the forum discussion.

In after hours, its almost impossible to actually write a post on a normal topic wanting some intelligent, interesting and helpful discussion. Some other forums do not have this problem at all – but generally they are on a specific topic and are well moderated. If you have a topic that is quite general and it is not suited to any other specific forum, if it’s put just in after hours, its like its being given a death sentence. I really wish there was another forum with no specific subject, just for general discussion where having a laugh and messing around is not the main priority, but creating a thread of useful and helpful replies, is.

Interested to hear what you guys think.
Cheers

AlmightyCushion

Blame the users not the forum. They are the ones that post it. This is after hours you are talking about, it's meant to be full of nonsense and stupid replies. Also, in all of the other forums I mod I tolerate a bit of messing around as long as it doesn't interfere with the thread too much.

Zascar

Then why cooko's nest or thunderdome? I never read either but I thought they were for the nonsense?

You can't change the users, but changing the forum slightly could solve the problem

Ponster

You're spending too long in After Hours. You want the forum to be something its not.

normal topic wanting some intelligent, interesting and helpful discussion

That's not what the forum is for I'm afraid. Try spending a week on Boards but without *ever* looking in AH and discover that there are loads of other forums where real discussions take place.

AlmightyCushion

Zascar wrote: »

Then why cooko's nest or thunderdome? I never read either but I thought they were for the nonsense?

You can't change the users, but changing the forum slightly could solve the problem

Thunderdome is for abusive threads and flamewars style stuff. TCN is for what I can only describe as more nonsensey type stuff then after hours. E.g. the count to a million thread would have been locked or moved if it was posted in after hours.

javaboy

I can see where you're coming from OP but I don't think it's as bad as you make out. There's a balance of stupid stuff, funny stuff and serious stuff.

It's not for everybody I know and some people go off it. As for wanting something seriously discussed that's not covered by any other forum, you'll find if you look close enough that almost any serious topic posted in AH could actually go somewhere more appropriate. Humanities, politics, green issues, economics etc. could take an awful lot of the topics people think don't fit anywhere else.

Have you any particular examples of threads that were supposed to be serious and were derailed by people making stupid jokes? I bet most examples you could give could have gone in a more "serious" forum.

Anyway I think Ponster hit the nail on the head: "You want the forum to be something its not."

Terry

You bastards broke Mordy.

randylonghorn

In fairness, the odd semi-serious discussion can still survive in AH, kind of to my surprise (sorry, AC! ) e.g. ... ok, a couple of mild smart comments, but it still stuck fairly much to the point.

Seems if people are actually interested in discussing something seriously, it can happen.

If however you want a totally serious / solemn discussion with no-one throwing in a smart comment or a bad pun, you're probably better off in Humanities, Politics, etc. as someone pointed out.

Gandalf23

What randy said.

Kintarō Hattori

You want a forum for general topics like After Hours but without the posters. I'm not sure how your going to make that one work. The only way you could have something like that is to restrict access otherwise you'll most likely end up with just another AH.

RoundyMooney

Zascar wrote: »

I'm not sure if I am alone here, but over the last while I have just been getting very bored and pissed off with boards. This is mainly due to a problem that happens mostly in the After Hours forum, but many others too. I wanted to share my thoughts here and see if anyone agrees or what others think.

<snip for brevity>

Two things spring to mind;

After Hours was never focused around discussion, more down the pub type of banter, and yes, a little lot of who can get in the pun or jaded witticism first, but that's human nature, and we the users, make it that way. AH is not mod driven, save the guidance towards PC matters, which is a sitewide policy, so it is inherently more democratic than the rest of boards.

Boards is (thankfully) much more than Feedback wagon circling, AH (which, as I note has its merits), and various other flavour of the month forums which in the main, while possessing an admirable community spirit, also veer rather close to cliquedom and circle jerking on occasion. There are many specialist fora here, like Photography, Fitness, to name but two of hundreds which are exemplary, and trot along nicely due to input from the users, and moderators who used to be users, and still behave as such. They are chock full of expert opinion, willing help, and a total absence of local boards.ie politics/bullshit/sycophantics. It's a deep pool, with plenty of discussion, and well worth the effort of diving in IMO. Have the craic in AH, and leave the courtiers to, em, court.

Gandalf23

Lads, I dont think OP is talking specifically about AH. Its wider than that ... he's talking about the entire site I think.

Zascar wrote: »

I'm not sure if I am alone here, but over the last while I have just been getting very bored and pissed off with boards. This is mainly due to a problem that happens mostly in the After Hours forum, but many others too. I wanted to share my thoughts here and see if anyone agrees or what others think.

I've been on this forum a long time, but it seems to me the quality of actual "discussion" has been on a slow spiral downwards. I think boards is a very different place than it was in the early days. People seem to be far more concerned with trying to be smart or say something funny, than contributing positively to the forum discussion.

OP could you be a bit more specific? Why is boards going downhill and a different place than it once was?

Nerin

I think that after hours serves boards-it gives people a place to act like idiots,to vent,to just talk like stereotypical lads sitting at a bar.

I don't like after hours,but i don't think i'd be telling the truth if i said i hate it. I agree that its really really ****ing annoying to see a serious thread get a million yore mas,but the simple solution is to start a thread in a more serious forum. Humanities for one example,can be a great place for serious discussion,and they do allow a bit of jokey posting,nothing like Ah though.

My advice op,is to start threads in other forums on topics you think deserve a more serious discussion. And try not looking at Ah for a week,you'll notice some of the more serious business that gets discussed.

Oh my,that was all very serious. Meow.
^_^

RoundyMooney

Nerin wrote: »

Oh my,that was all very serious. Meow.
^_^

Perhaps, but I agree with the sentiment.

javaboy

Nerin wrote: »

I don't like after hours,but i don't think i'd be telling the truth if i said i hate it. I agree that its really really ****ing annoying to see a serious thread get a million yore mas,but the simple solution is to start a thread in a more serious forum.

Just want to point out that doesn't really happen. The whole "yore ma" thing isn't that much of a problem. Most people have grown out of it now.

Nerin

javaboy wrote: »

Just want to point out that doesn't really happen. The whole "yore ma" thing isn't that much of a problem. Most people have grown out of it now.

I might start lurking more so

DonkeyStyle \o/

I agree about After Hours... lately I find the signal to noise ratio is taking a beating from there being a few too many wannabe comedians.
I'm all for people sharing something funny they've thought of, but sometimes I get the feeling people are approaching threads with "say something funny" as their primary objective... which, IMO, leads to much fail.
Flop joke after flop joke with very little discussion on the actual topic... even though it could be a funny thread if people just went with the flow and stopped trying so hard.

Ponster

javaboy wrote: »

Just want to point out that doesn't really happen. The whole "yore ma" thing isn't that much of a problem. Most people have grown out of it now.

14 times today

RoundyMooney

Ponster wrote: »

14 times today

AH clichés are a fucking epidemic. Whether the mods want to resort to an editorial role in order to stop that from happening is a matter for them really.

Steve

It's already been said and I agree that AH is more akin to bar banter than serious discussion. People posting there in the hope of a serious discussion should really know better because you would be hard pressed not to find a forum where the discussion could otherwise be held.
Also, I believe there is something in the loosely upheld charter that actually discourages posting there 'to gain a wider audience' when there is a more suitable forum for the discussion.
Personally, I wouldn't like to see AH any different, it's a fun relaxing place to read/post and very well run imo.

Gandalf23

SteveC wrote: »

It's already been said and I agree that AH is more akin to bar banter than serious discussion. People posting there in the hope of a serious discussion should really know better because you would be hard pressed not to find a forum where the discussion could otherwise be held.
Also, I believe there is something in the loosely upheld charter that actually discourages posting there 'to gain a wider audience' when there is a more suitable forum for the discussion.
Personally, I wouldn't like to see AH any different, it's a fun relaxing place to read/post and very well run imo.

+1,000,000 ... exactly right.

Why wasn't SteveC made mod of AH? Excellent poster ... he should definitely be mod of something around here.

DonkeyStyle \o/

SteveC wrote: »

It's already been said and I agree that AH is more akin to bar banter than serious discussion.

Yeah, but if someone in a pub kept butting in with tiresome, ill-timed your ma comments, you'd probably tell them to shut the hell up.

|--B]Serious Discussion[/B

---

B]Bar Banter[/B

---

B]TCN[/B--|
...........................................................................^After Hours.

AlmightyCushion

RoundyMooney wrote: »

AH clichés are a fucking epidemic. Whether the mods want to resort to an editorial role in order to stop that from happening is a matter for them really.

I am tempted to start taking a more stronger stance on the yore ma type posts. I'll decide once I start getting back on a more regular basis.

Gandalf23 wrote: »

+1,000,000 ... exactly right.

Why wasn't SteveC made mod of AH? Excellent poster ... he should definitely be mod of something around here.

Not hitler-esque enough.

Steve

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »

Yeah, but if someone in a pub kept butting in with tiresome, ill-timed your ma comments, you'd probably tell them to shut the hell up.

|--B]Serious Discussion[/B

---

B]Bar Banter[/B

---

B]TCN[/B--|
...........................................................................^After Hours.

Karoma was handing out bannings for straight up unfunny 'yore ma' comments a while back, this seems to have laxed a little lately. Maybe this needs to to be re-introduced. I agree while a lot of them are tiresome, some of them, in the right context, can be peaches as well.

Steve

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Not hitler-esque enough.

Ja mein fuhrer!

randylonghorn

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Not hitler-esque enough.

This from a big ball of fluff ... :rolleyes:

Zascar

Guys I'm not suggesting changing after hours at all. But I think it would be nice to have another forum for general topics with a focus on quality 'discussion'.

After Hours gets a lot of thread about current issues in the news etc - but not they are necessarily suited to politics or economics etc. Some topics are obviously perfectly suited to AH and are great fun because of this, but personally what I'd like to see is a "General Discussion" forum with better moderation around short useless unhelpful replies that do not add to the topic in a positive manner.

javaboy

Zascar wrote: »

Guys I'm not suggesting changing after hours at all. But I think it would be nice to have another forum for general topics with a focus on quality 'discussion'.

After Hours gets a lot of thread about current issues in the news etc - but not they are necessarily suited to politics or economics etc. Some topics are obviously perfectly suited to AH and are great fun because of this, but personally what I'd like to see is a "General Discussion" forum with better moderation around short useless unhelpful replies that do not add to the topic in a positive manner.

What topics in particular are not already catered for by another existing forum?

Gandalf23

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Not hitler-esque enough.

Maybe not, but that might be exactly what AH needs.

Ah go on ... give SteveC a go. He'd be a brilliant AH mod!

Who agrees?????

Terry

Ponster wrote: »

14 times today

Less than usual.

RoundyMooney wrote: »

AH clichés are a fucking epidemic. Whether the mods want to resort to an editorial role in order to stop that from happening is a matter for them really.

I deleted almost 500 posts containing the word "Yore" last week.
They were all made in November.

Most people are getting pissed off with it and have made it clear to others.

Pighead and Javaboy ripped the piss out of some guy last week for a yore ma post.

Terry

Zascar wrote: »

Guys I'm not suggesting changing after hours at all. But I think it would be nice to have another forum for general topics with a focus on quality 'discussion'.

After Hours gets a lot of thread about current issues in the news etc - but not they are necessarily suited to politics or economics etc. Some topics are obviously perfectly suited to AH and are great fun because of this, but personally what I'd like to see is a "General Discussion" forum with better moderation around short useless unhelpful replies that do not add to the topic in a positive manner.

Politics-lite?

DonkeyStyle \o/

Terry wrote: »

Pighead and Javaboy ripped the piss out of some guy last week for a yore ma post.

I ripped pigheads ma out of it last week.

*dons hypocrite hat and runs away*

Earthhorse

Some of the best discussions I've had have been in After Hours, actually. There's no room for pretension in there. No one's impressed, or has to be pretend to be, by the link you've posted if it's a pile of shit. If you're trying to blind people with science on After Hours we'll just laugh at you and move on. Only people who genuinely have something worthwhile to say will find their serious topic being taken seriously on After Hours. That's the beauty of it.

Zascar wrote: »

Guys I'm not suggesting changing after hours at all. But I think it would be nice to have another forum for general topics with a focus on quality 'discussion'.

After Hours gets a lot of thread about current issues in the news etc - but not they are necessarily suited to politics or economics etc. Some topics are obviously perfectly suited to AH and are great fun because of this, but personally what I'd like to see is a "General Discussion" forum with better moderation around short useless unhelpful replies that do not add to the topic in a positive manner.

I sometimes wish we had the equivalent of an FYAD to GBS realtionship with a forum on here to After Hours. Not an FYAD clone or anything. Sort of an After Hours mark two where only genuinely witty comments were welcome and catchphrasery or otherwise lazy posting was rounded upon. Quickly. Don't know quite how you could make it work though.

javaboy

Terry wrote: »

Most people are getting pissed off with it and have made it clear to others.

Pighead and Javaboy ripped the piss out of some guy last week for a yore ma post.

And in fairness to the poster in question, he has since vowed never to do it again.

Steve

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Maybe not, but that might be exactly what AH needs.

Ah go on ... give SteveC a go. He'd be a brilliant AH mod!

Who agrees?????

You're just trying to get me out of feedback aren't you! :P

Besides, I wouldn't come close to being qualified for that job!

Kurtosis

I know it's been mentioned a few times already, but I have to highlight again that the Humanities forum seems to be the thing you're looking for. Even the charter there seems to spell it out:

Now, Humanities was created for the purpose of having rational, thoughtful, calm debate about issues. It was created as an alternative to After Hours. A place for intellectual discourse.

Sounds like it fits the bill pretty well.

Dinter

My 2 cents.

If you start a serious topic in AH you will definitely get a couple of yore ma comments or whatever thrown in. But you'll also get a couple of fairly rational replies too. You'll reply and then there'll be another broadside of puns and or yore mas from the people who aren't reading the thread at all but like to see their name up there.

It does go on and on, interminably sometimes, and if you are just glancing through a thread it can appear like everyone's just dismissing each other's points out of hand. However if you're taking part in it you'll see it's not like that at all.

I think it's all to do with delivery. A post that seems completely facetious will probably have a nugget of very hard opinion in it and if you're familiar with the poster you'll know to attach weight to it and know that if you've a difference of opinion then that's the bit to concentrate on while ignoring the chaff.

That's how I see AH anyway. It really does come down to a more off the cuff kinda debate, the kind that you might have in a pub with friends. Taking the piss out of each other and dissing their opinions even if you agree with them.

There is a tonne of fluff in some threads and tbh if you can't get past that you mightn't enjoy it. However if you join a thread, draw a line in the sand and pick a side to defend to the death, it can be some of the best fun available on boards.

Trojan

I didn't read your post, because you mentioned AH in there.

That might be a useful hint.

But in all seriousness, there are loads of other forums, one of which will be a fit for whatever you want to discuss, and won't have the levels of crap that you'll get in AH.

Tom Dunne

So you are looking for a general forum, for discussion of a wide range of topics that don't easily fit into current forums/fora (:)) and where muppetry is not tolerated.

A sort of Critical Thinking type forum, you say?

/shameless plug

seamus

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »

I agree about After Hours... lately I find the signal to noise ratio is taking a beating from there being a few too many wannabe comedians.

This seems to happen in cycles. One or a number of quality new posters appear on the site and on AH, posting genuinely funny comments which also include some relevant content. Then a lot of other people seem to feel the need to "up their game" to compete, but forget to include the content along with their oh-so-witty riposte.

It happened when Pighead arrived, and now it's happened because javaboy (and someone else, I forget your name) has arrived.

If we ban the good posters from AH, everyone else will return to normality. But the discussion will suck, really.

Zascar, this kind of topic does come up every so often from "seasoned" posters and overall I think the main problem is that the site is changing. I'm not saying that you're being a grouch or anything like that, but boards is constantly evolving and it genuinely moves outside of the kind of thing that some people are interested in.
It's not that they dislike change, but they may dislike the direction that the site is heading. It's happened in the past, we've lost some huge contributors, and it will happen in the future, because no matter what boards has to evolve.

Personally, I think AH is in a generally good place at the moment. It is possible to have pub-esque conversations without too much noise. People seem to understand the boundaries and people who decide to act the prick get quickly rounded on by the other posters and told where to go. If you're expecting a deeper, more meaningful conversation, then you need to go elsewhere, but the same is true of the pub. Nobody brings out significant facts and figures in a pub conversation without getting strange looks, no more than someone posts fifty evidential links in AH without being asked to summarise them in 2 paragraphs or less.

faceman

Zascar wrote: »

I'm not sure if I am alone here, but over the last while I have just been getting very bored and pissed off with boards. This is mainly due to a problem that happens mostly in the After Hours forum, but many others too.

I really hate the way a person's experience in AH leads them to generalise about the whole site about it going downhill. Its very common with rants about the site.

AH is only as good as the posts that are put up in it. Thats down to the users. The mods can only do so much to try regulate discussion.

Although Id like to see less of the ma stuff. Sometimes a witty one emerges but throwing in a yore ma for the sake of it or because no one else has yet is really unfunny. Its like going out to dinner with work mates and making sure you are not sitting beside the annoying office fcuker who says the same unfunny comments all the time.

As bad as people claim AH has become or whatever, there is rarely a time i have gone to it and not found a thread to post in that was of interest.

FlutterinBantam

I feel the reason people post on AH and try for serious discussion is to broaden the audience and contributor base.
The more suitable and serious fora exist, but would not have the range of response that perhaps the poster wishes to engage and interact with..

There are a lot of messers and crackpots on AH,who want to distill the serious side of things with inane comments and repetitive remarks.

We will just have to live cheek by jowl with them I guess, and perhaps, if we need that more diffuse audience and eclectic footprint , they are a necessary 'evil'.

There would be a place for a fairly serious multi topical forum or discussion area on Boards.ie I would imagine.

javaboy

^Flutt's a perfect example of someone who posts a fair bit of shite on AH for humourous effect but also posts seriously a lot of the time. The thing that sticks out most (not least thanks to the avatar ) is the fecal fixation but he contributes to the serious discussions more than most.

Nerin

javaboy wrote: »

^Flutt's a perfect example of someone who posts a fair bit of shite on AH for humourous effect but also posts seriously a lot of the time. The thing that sticks out most (not least thanks to the avatar ) is the fecal fixation but he contributes to the serious discussions more than most.

Very true,I've often found myself pulling off a facepalm at some of fluttys ****e,but i think when hes serious,hes an extremely clever poster.

RoundyMooney

Nerin wrote: »

Very true,I've often found myself pulling off

Jaysus, he's entertaining at times, but not that entertaining.

javaboy

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Jaysus, he's entertaining at times, but not that entertaining.

I was going to say that but didn't want to get accused of derailing a serious thread for laughs. :cool:

Red Sleeping Beauty

Why aren't images allowed in AH ?

Steve

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Why aren't images allowed in AH ?

Somebody posted a picture of their mother ages ago and broke the image server.

4zn76tysfajdxp

I knew right away when I saw the thread title that this would be about AH. I must be psychic.

seamus wrote: »

It happened when Pighead arrived, and now it's happened because javaboy has arrived.

What about their son Pigboy?:



He's gonna be the next superstar of AH.

AlmightyCushion

seamus wrote: »

Nobody brings out significant facts and figures in a pub conversation without getting strange looks, no more than someone posts fifty evidential links in AH without being asked to summarise them in 2 paragraphs or less.

You obviously missed that David Icke thread.

Normal person: "Lizard people? That's just rediculous."
Icke nut: "No it's not, here's some links to 473 hours of video where Icke says it's all true.".
Normal person: "Yeah, but he's a nut job."
Icke nut: "No he's not, here's some links to 546 hours of video where Icke clearly states he's not a nutjob and this is all true".

Lather, rinse and repeat.

javaboy

Esmeralda Thankful Puff wrote: »

What about their son Pigboy?:



He's gonna be the next superstar of AH.

Sex is always more fun with a third person involved.