Dirty Diesel or a Sly Dealer? UPDATE

tiernanobrien

For those of you who dont know the origional story:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055435522&highlight=dirty+diesel

Right well I got a phone call from the dealer today and he said basically that the oil ran too low and that the engine had siezed. He's claiming im liable and has offered me a Rover 75 worth €9500 for it (I paid 18500 for the BMW 9 months ago).

The problem I have is:
A) the car was not due a service for another 6000miles
B)the warning light never came up to say the oil was low
C)i bought the car from the dealership i.e. should it not have been in perfect working order?

I know if you buy from an auction its sold as seen but it must be different from a dealership, especially if its still under warranty.

I would appreciate some advice on the matter please.

Thanks!

Anan1

How long before had you last checked the oil?

robtri

If I remeber correctly, the oil light on the dash isn't a low oil warning, its an oil Pressure montior, so you can still run low on oil and not have the light come on...

But before I would do anything, I would have a BMW garage look at the car and check it out, get an independent opinion before you do anything.... thats the first thing that need to happen.... without this you can't say if the guy who sold you the car is lying or not...

biggus

Get the car back from the dealer arrange collection ( i have a good guy)
Then go legal on it.
Get a good secondhand engine out of a crashed late model bmw same as yours make sure you hear it running first (this may take a week of your time) use the internet eg traynors.co.uk or
http://www.templeautosalvage.com/sale.php

Rover 75's are worth nothing

Your car with a good secondhand donkey will look after you for at least five years its still a good safe modern car

Get a few opinions around here on mechanic to do work.

mickdw

This is all bull****. Thats two completely differing engine problems they have come up with and handily for them, both of them are your responsibility. How could low oil damage be confused with fuel system problems as originally stated?

Take the car away from them quick as Id say they are liable to damage it just to get themselves out of trouble.
Both theories put forward by them involve huge money. Its a scam.

reverandkenjami

robtri wrote: »

If I remeber correctly, the oil light on the dash isn't a low oil warning, its an oil Pressure montior, so you can still run low on oil and not have the light come on...

Its actually an oil level sensor! The sensor is in the sump and warns of low oil levels! If the sensor is broken the light will stay on constantly..

I'd say the dealer is trying to worm his way out of it.. Get an independant inspection of the engine done

tred

tiernanobrien wrote: »

For those of you who dont know the origional story:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055435522&highlight=dirty+diesel

Right well I got a phone call from the dealer today and he said basically that the oil ran too low and that the engine had siezed. He's claiming im liable and has offered me a Rover 75 worth €9500 for it (I paid 18500 for the BMW 9 months ago).

The problem I have is:
A) the car was not due a service for another 6000miles
B)the warning light never came up to say the oil was low
C)i bought the car from the dealership i.e. should it not have been in perfect working order?

I know if you buy from an auction its sold as seen but it must be different from a dealership, especially if its still under warranty.

I would appreciate some advice on the matter please.

Thanks!

Youll need to get the car back i think. You see....if there pulling a fast one...there was nothing stopping them relasing the oil from the car showing now ther is zero oil in it. If its injectors..there expensive..but you can get them refurbished. say the engine is gone a new engine is not worth more than 9500 ...the value between the rover and the BMW....it sounds dodgy to me. I would say to him ur seeking legal advice on this. he might soften his bark then..

Ta me anseo

To the OP:

Were you able to turn the engine over after it failed? i.e. did
you try to start it again?

If yes, the stop reading this and get the car out of that garage now. As others have said it's off to BMW and have it looked at.

Otherwise stop reading this anyway and call someone to get the car out of there asap. Any garage that first says dirty diesel then says engine seizure is covering something up.

He's just offered you a different for 9k less than what you paid. You would get a very good second hand engine in your car for an awful lot less. There could not be a more dodgy sounding story.

Darsad

OP Before you go pulling the car from this guy give us a few more facts !

What mileage is currently on the car
What mileage was on it when you purchased it
Have you had any work or servicing carried out post purchase.
Have you ever checked the oil level.

These are all relevant facts that will help to establish if you have a case or not . Personally I would not be too worried about them changing their
opinion on the cause of the failure, perhaps the true cause of the problem was only evident after the dismantling .

Ferris

I doubt that a garage are trying to pass off faulty injectors as a siezed engine. That just doesn't fly in any way.

Also fact is that the car is an '02 320d, a car famed for its turbo trouble. What could've happened is that the turbo failed (bust its bearing) and this sucked all the oil out of the engine, siezing it. Same has happened to me and it happens so quickly that its untrue. I had checked the oil level 2 days earlier.

OP - inspect the turbo (or get someone to do it). If the car is under warranty than this could be the root cause.

mickdw

Ferris wrote: »

I doubt that a garage are trying to pass off faulty injectors as a siezed engine. That just doesn't fly in any way.

Also fact is that the car is an '02 320d, a car famed for its turbo trouble. What could've happened is that the turbo failed (bust its bearing) and this sucked all the oil out of the engine, siezing it. Same has happened to me and it happens so quickly that its untrue. I had checked the oil level 2 days earlier.

OP - inspect the turbo (or get someone to do it). If the car is under warranty than this could be the root cause.

Of course its very likely that turbo failure has ruined the engine. But the whole point here is that the garage are blaming anything that could be the OPs fault and not a car fault. If that Car is still there with them, the OP deserves everything he gets tbh. They are gangsters

Ferris

mickdw wrote: »

Of course its very likely that turbo failure has ruined the engine. But the whole point here is that the garage are blaming anything that could be the OPs fault and not a car fault. If that Car is still there with them, the OP deserves everything he gets tbh. They are gangsters

Fair enough, the op needs to get to the root cause however either by independant mechanic or theough the dealer.

OP- if the turbo looks like this:


Or has any oil in it its this that removed the oil from the engine. Also some of that oil may be in the intercooler, if they take the hose from the bottom of the intercooler and oil comes out this is further proof.

This is a pic of the turbo that came out of my car:(. See how the vanes are bent where they came into contact with the housing. The whole rotor was loose in the housing, it should not move.

tiernanobrien

What mileage is currently on the car? 80,000
What mileage was on it when you purchased it? 72500
Have you had any work or servicing carried out post purchase?Routine service 2 months after purchase (7months ago)
Have you ever checked the oil level? 2 weeks ago and it was fine

As for the people telling me to get the car out the car is now immobile as the crankshaft is split and the sump etc is out?

Any suggestions of what i should do next?

Ferris

tiernanobrien wrote: »

What mileage is currently on the car? 80,000
What mileage was on it when you purchased it? 72500
Have you had any work or servicing carried out post purchase?Routine service 2 months after purchase (7months ago)
Have you ever checked the oil level? 2 weeks ago and it was fine

As for the people telling me to get the car out the car is now immobile as the crankshaft is split and the sump etc is out?

Any suggestions of what i should do next?

I'd get an independant engineers report to verify the cause of the loss of oil. Getting the car out of there is a towtruck job by the sound of it. Maybe the engineer could inspect the car where it is now?

Like I said I was in the same situation before and its a real PITA.

From http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=36

320d M47 150bhp models gained a reputation for repeated turbo failure, possibly due to extended oil service intervals. After replacing turbo, ECU needs to be reprogrammed. Also instances of injector failure. BMW says that only EU3 320d engines built before October 2003 are affected by the turbo problem. EU4s not affected. NOTE that losing power on hills and burning oil (blue smoke) may not be a symptom of turbo bearing or turbo bearing oil seal failure.

Darsad

You have two choices pay up or fight it !
If you choose to fight it then the first thing you need is an independent assessors report . Make sure you have a receipt for the service you had post purchase and that it is stamped in the service book of the car.Ask the garage for a written report of the exact problem and cause so you have something documented for your independent Engineer to go on .

Darsad

Oh and if it is as Ferris says its a turbo failure get as much evidence of this been problem on these cars as you can from club forums etc. If it goes to court this can be very persuasive evidence, but be very careful to gather accurate information ie model , model year , engine size , Turbo spec etc.Having you info discredited as relating to a different model does not go down well
but your independent engineer would be able to help you here.

testicle

reverandkenjami wrote: »

Its actually an oil level sensor! The sensor is in the sump and warns of low oil levels! If the sensor is broken the light will stay on constantly..

I'd say the dealer is trying to worm his way out of it.. Get an independant inspection of the engine done

It's an oil pressure sensor, not an oil level sensor. Some cars have both however.

reverandkenjami

testicle wrote: »

It's an oil pressure sensor, not an oil level sensor. Some cars have both however.

The 320d has both. I was refering to the comment in which it was said that "you can still run low on oil and not have the light come on". The level sensor warns of low oil levels.

Darragh29

reverandkenjami wrote: »

The 320d has both. I was refering to the comment in which it was said that "you can still run low on oil and not have the light come on". The level sensor warns of low oil levels.

I got the impression from the thread (although it wasn't specifically stated), that the mechanic was trying to say that the engine oil had been thinned out/contaminated by excess fuel coming from the injectors that had been damaged by the dodgy diesel. This wouldn't cause an oil pressure or oil level sensor to activate. But if this happened, then the first thing I would be expecting would be a lot of engine smoke, first of all due to damaged diesel injectors and it is very much a worse case scenario that you would be extremely unlucky to run into. OP, did you have someone else look at the car yet???

marble

i'm having the same problem .mines a '01 a4 tdi and hes trying to tell me its dirty diesel.4th time its happened in 5 months.pissed off.....anyone got any idea what the problem could be?btw i still have lights,radio etc