Dundalk Leader article about shopping up North

Just after reading the front page and page 11 of the Dundalk Leader with regards to the recent increase of people from Dundalk going up North for their shopping, and I have to say it comes across as a very threatening article towards the people of the town.

Here are a few parts from the article:

Hundreds of people in Dundalk stand to lose their jobs this Christmas if people from the town continue to travel north for their christmas shopping. It has to stop and stop now!
If you shop over the borded this Christmas you are depriving your town of vital money, the traders here of job creating trade, our council of vital taxes and ultimately you are killing your own town and the jobs of those in it.....

If you the people who live in this community support your town you will save the town and it's jobs. Residents in the Dundalk area are blessed to have no local taxes to pay whtsoever, all local services are provider free of charge by Dundalk Town Council......

If the northern shopping frenzycontinues, local traders will no longer be able to properly pay these taxes and the council will have to consider reintroducing local residential taxes on each home such as water charges to balance their budget.

There's an excuses for the council to charge local taxes :rolleyes:

It then goes onto say:

Human beings will always say, "look for the bargins", but would you take a bargin even if that meant that one of your friends or family would lose their jobs over it?

If you know people who are travelling to the north for their shopping, it is up to you to say, "People here are losing their jobs and you are contributing to it."
If any member of your family takes the option and travels to Newry or elsewhere in the north then they have no right to complain about affairs here, because they are the ones who gave their money across the border.

The economic downfall is our fault and we are the ones now that will have to stop shopping around for bargins, just as Mary Harney told us to do, we now have to shop here in the town/south be robbed blind and live on "bread, jam and beans" all to save jobs and business, what a load of ***** !
We're in a recession and coming up to Christmas if the business's of Dundalk/Ireland haven't noticed, drop prices, lower the cost of living, help the many people that are struggeling to make ends meet, don't expect us to help when we are suffering too.

Dundalkeye

i agree with hellboy 100% all the dundalk leader is worried about is losing there precious advertisers. also the leader says in this weeks paper that we should spend our money in Dundalk well why is there adverts for 041 numbers in it i counted about 7 and also whats the first thing you see as you drive into Dundalk a big sign for the quays in newry. ( up at the old shopping center)

jprender

I do all my shopping up north now.

Much better value, it is as simple as that.

Retailers down here will just have to learn. Lower their margins and be competitive.


My petrol costs are more than covered by not having to pay parking charges in the Marshes.


It's all a wee bit silly really.

Wertz

I came on to the board to post something about this (and the Leader in general) and I find someone else has started a thread. Great minds, etc.
You raise all the points I was going to and I've nothing really to add.
I'd love to know who runs this "newspaper" that I'm lumbered with every week, what their real interest is here with this article...

As for Dundalk retailers? As I've said in other threads across the site on this issue, it's not a new one for the town...the flow of business across the border has always been there, but when the recent large numbers started in the past 2 or so years, where were the reactions by local retailers and businesses back then? Where was the attempt to cut prices to remain competitive? Oh that's right, we were all up our necks in cash and it didn't matter.
This is not a new problem and it's not up to consumers to fix it.
Why on earth should we pay 20-30% over the odds for the exact same products sometimes bought from the same companies for the supposed benefit of supporting council rates and local employment? Why is it a business in Newry can sell me something for X amount, pay it's staff, it's rates, it's overheads and still turn a profit, but the same business in Dundalk has to sell it to me for Y amount, that amount Y being on average 20% more expensive by the time the same business expenses are taken into account. Please don't quote 6% VAT rate difference or wage variations...they do NOT account for the price differentials and I have yet to see it proved otherwise despite repeated attempts by people to do so both on these forums and in the media.
When you see moves like the council increasing on-street parking fees in the town last night (by ~17%) it makes you wonder if the interests of shoppers and locals are taken into account at all.

FWIW I still do my basic weekly shopping here but I spend prudently and I make a point of trying to buy anything where there is a large price difference up North. Any electronics, a lot of clothing and other less regular purchases I've been making online for years anyhow, all money which has left the State...what a lot of people don't seem to realise is that when you buy your Japanese electronics or your American clothing, that the bulk of the cost of the item leaves the country anyhow...the difference in price is solely down to the added overheads of tax, wages, profit and rates. Why should I or anyone else basically pay a middleman a 30%+ margin on an item I can source for cheaper elsewhere?

I'd rate the Leader as being marginally more interesting than Alive and marginally less smug than the Argus weekender, but that's about the height of it. Can't say I'd miss any of them if someone glued my letterbox shut...

It's certainly far from being a fair and balanced report.

bush Baby

Its gas - that writer would be better employed pointing that rant at his local Fianna Fail TD. Rip off Ireland is alive and well and the only thing that will put manners on it is price parity. UK VAT is at 15% Irish VAT is at 21%, wouldn't that be a start?? Drink manufactured here is cheaper in the north after transport costs are added?? Why?

I could go on but I have a headache, better go to Lidl in Newry to get some paracetamol at 26p per pack.

Dundalkeye

just a thought would the the leader and the likes be a form of illegal dumping can i put my rubbish in your letter box and get away with it? lol

Wertz

I'm sure they'd argue that they provide a service free of charge to local consumers, that they provide local employment and that their business model depends on this practice.
An Post have been delivering unsolicited mailshots for years now and no-one's tried to curtail them.
TBH I have far more of a problem with "charity" bag stickers coming in the door every other day than I have with free papers...at least you can recycle the papers...

Dundalkeye

thats a good point them charity bag stickers are a pain and most of them are a scam

Dundalkeye

http://dundalkslander.blogspot.com/ Come on people we cant let this happen lol

TommyT

Dundalkeye wrote: »

http://dundalkslander.blogspot.com/ Come on people we cant let this happen lol

Whatever happened to the "El Paso Times" ?

Wertz

Didn't vodafone use their long reach to have it pulled from it's US hosting server after some allegations made against their Dundalk based call centre? I know it was kept going for a wee while after that but had lost any teeth it had by then...

Ann22

The new Call of Duty game-World at war is €70 in Zavvy but only £34.95 in Sainsburys. What's that in euro? About €40?

XenonMan

I have even better one.Been searching for new tv for good few months,and at last i made mine mind.Samsung 40' LCD full HD,here in Harvey 1200 and in Belfast richer Sounds 709 sterling which is 815 euro thats stagering 385 euro.Why should i pay more for the same goods?
Local retailers get you prices down,and we will be happy shoping here,close to our houms

@ XenonMan

Same here got a Samsung myself a few months back, went to Currys in Belfast to get it as it worked out near €400 cheaper than Currys here in the town, absolute joke.
Didn't see any PS3 games in Currys here reduced to under €10 either a while back when they were all reduced in Currys up north to £4.97 & £9.97.

peaches79

It actually sounds verbatim like the article in the drogheda leader last week.
I also thought it was a bit rich. Was very sensationalist, though should that surprise me with the leader?

Biggins

peaches79 wrote: »

It actually sounds verbatim like the article in the drogheda leader last week.
I also thought it was a bit rich. Was very sensationalist, though should that surprise me with the leader?

Read that. Over the top to say the least. The Drogheda Leader knows that if shops fail, thus there goes some businesses that advertise with them.
They are not worried about you or I, just their own ass in the long run.

Some Drogheda shops have been ripping off their own towns people for ages and now the exact same shop owners are crying out!

Simple example: Wife and I bought a buggy (from British business) for 130 Euro (+ post +carriage at another 30 Euro) = Total 160 Euro.
Exact same buggy in Drogheda was 350.

Now if the Drogheda Leader is willing to pay the difference between the English price and Drogheda price, I'm quite willing to buy it in the town.

If the shops drop their huge margins of pure profit and stop ripping folk off (whom are very angry for some time), maybe we'd stick to south of the border.
As it is, the expensive shops are reaping what they have only sown!

I for one, am not bailing out the rip-off merchants.
If they go down the pan, its no loss.

aquascrotum

The Leader would be better placed telling their advertisers to cut prices before questioning their readers loyalties when they choose not to pay a 30% premium on just about everything for the privelege of being Oirish.

The GF's car failed the NCT on wheel alignment. Rang a few tyre places in Drogheda, cheapest I got was E48 (dearest was E60!!). First place I rang over the border, £10 (about E12 at the mo.) Where the hell is the justification for the 300% markup??

peaches79

Totally agree- it's just karma in my books
We go up every few wks. It seems as though every shop in the south has a pricing cartel going on babyfood. It's always 12-15 euro a tin. 8.95 sterling or less in the north.

Now, when u have twins and double that- I'll have those savings in my pocket thank you Drogheda Leader.

NicholasJackman

Marginally better than the Argus Weekender. Please.

Yes the article is bias, it is a campaigning piece.

Wertz

NicholasJackman wrote: »

Marginally better than the Argus Weekender. Please.

Yes the article is bias, it is a campaigning piece.

Is that a response to this..?

Me wrote:

I'd rate the Leader as being marginally more interesting than Alive and marginally less smug than the Argus weekender

...or is the weekender running a similar chicken licken type article on it's pages as well?

louthandproud

Dundalkeye wrote: »

thats a good point them charity bag stickers are a pain and most of them are a scam

Not most, all!

conair01

by the look of thing the dundalk leader was right with when it printed the article before xmas

"Superquinn is to close its Dundalk store in Carroll Village, shedding 67 local jobs in the process.

The supermarket chain has blamed 'recent developments in cross-border shopping' for its decision, which is part of a nationwide cost-cutting plan.

As well as shutting the Dundalk store, the company are planning to axe 12 per cent of its staff, with expected job losses of around 400. "
the Argus newspaper:rolleyes:

Nothing to do with cross-border shopping, they are just too expensive and the Marshes has took a lot of custome away from there too.

bottomdog

Well well, the Leader got it right, Superquinn Jobs lost, so sad and it has everything to do with cross border shopping. as the SQ manager said. The retailers cannot compete on three levels, we have a much higher minimum wage hereª over €8 compared to over 5 STG in the north, also VAT is less in the North, so its not greddy traders but rather the environment, of course the Leader took the local business view, it's their advertisers. BUT......in a word SUPERQUINN......No arguement , the LEADER WAS RIGHT arfter all...enjoy your cans of sansbury's beer....you neightbour is on the dole.....CHEERS

delly

bottomdog wrote: »

Well well, the Leader got it right, Superquinn Jobs lost, so sad and it has everything to do with cross border shopping. as the SQ manager said. The retailers cannot compete on three levels, we have a much higher minimum wage hereª over €8 compared to over 5 STG in the north, also VAT is less in the North, so its not greddy traders but rather the environment, of course the Leader took the local business view, it's their advertisers. BUT......in a word SUPERQUINN......No arguement , the LEADER WAS RIGHT arfter all...enjoy your cans of sansbury's beer....you neightbour is on the dole.....CHEERS

So why the fuk is Aldi opening a second outlet in Dundalk if everybody is heading North of the border eh? Because they have a decent business model.

Superquinn have been too slow to react over recent years to the change in the Irish market. They used to be high priced but with great customer service, so people still shopped there. Now they are just high priced with the same level of service you get anywhere, so its no wonder people stay away. They should take a leaf out of Aer Lingus's book and study the low cost model and adapt some of there methods.

bottomdog

bottomdog wrote: »

Well well, the Leader got it right, Superquinn Jobs lost, so sad and it has everything to do with cross border shopping. as the SQ manager said. The retailers cannot compete on three levels, we have a much higher minimum wage hereª over €8 compared to over 5 STG in the north, also VAT is less in the North, so its not greddy traders but rather the environment, of course the Leader took the local business view, it's their advertisers. BUT......in a word SUPERQUINN......No arguement , the LEADER WAS RIGHT arfter all...enjoy your cans of sansbury's beer....you neightbour is on the dole.....CHEERS

SQ manager says they couldn't compete, why the hell couldn't they lower their expensive prices, afterall they source most of the products from wholesalers in the North rather than the Republic.

The only reasons why they are closing in the town is because they are too expensive / greedy, and the Marshes has took a lot of busniess away from that side of the town, nothing to do with cross-border shopping. Their own employees will not shop in the store because they are too expensive.

Personally I'm getting really fed-up at this stage with hearing "cross-border shopping is the cause for a lot of job loses", the sole cause of it is greed, be it from high rents to service charges, profiteering and a government that has failed to act.

If the Leader or anyone else for that matter want to go ahead and make such statements as "cross-border shopping is closing us down", I suggest they go and do some research first and find out why people are going up north and why here in the south we are been fleeced.

soups05

from the argus jan 28th

A former manager at Superquinn Dundalk says the closure of the supermarket cannot be blamed solely on the impact of cross border shopping, but on the scaling down of the store in recent times.
Martin McArdle, who worked for Superquinn for over 30 years before retiring in 2002 told the Argus 'It is a sad day for Dundalk, that Superquinn came to the town as a world class company, and will leave it as a pauper.'
He criticised the statement by Superquinn's new owners claiming the number of shoppers heading north of the border to shop had left the company with no alternative but to close their Dundalk store.
'The currency difference has always been part of the cut and thrust of trading along the border. When I left Superquinn, it was a thriving store, but it has completely scaled down in recent years. I think they took their eye off the ball.'
He added that initially there had been well over 200 staff employed at the Carroll Village supermarket, but that had been vastly reduced to 67 in recent times.
'I think the ethos of the store really changed. Superquinn used to be a fresh food empire, and it brought the customers in. But that has changed a lot, especially over the last 12 months.'
Mr McArdle led the launch of the store in the new Carroll Village Shopping Centre in February 1999, when hopes were high for the return of the former Quinnsworth to Dundalk.'
'It was always about putting the customer first. For example, we were the first to introduce the traceability system, where we could tell people exactly what farm the meat originated from.
'Customers really responded to that, they wanted good quality fresh produce, and Superquinn were always able to provide it.'
He said some of the changes in recent years 'may have been to do with the fact that the new owners were non-grocers.
'Fergal Quinn was the person who transformed grocery shopping in Ireland, by always knowing what the customer wanted, and ensuring it was available to them.'

soups05

oh and by the way, i will enjoy my cans of ALDI beer thanks. i bought them with the money i saved by going up north to buy a tv and not paying an extra 300 euro here thanks.
and to further my point....i work in a local shop,the owner buys his stock up north and still charges much more for it down here.

tray of red bull, 24 cans for 24 euro in south wholesalers....12.78 up north.

retail price.......2.15 euro PER CAN!!!!!


rip off republic is right. if the shop closes then its not my fault, or the fault of my ex-customers.

its the greed of the owner.

tonym467

I'v been imployed in construction for over 20 years in dundalk ,unemployed now, and am sick of people, IE chamber of commerce,news papers, councillors and TDs.:mad:
They are asking all of us to stay loyal to to the businesses in the town,so that we save jobs.Drive around town and have a look at all the goverment and local council projects that are ongoing. Most are tendered to companies from the north who import all their concrete,stone,blocks and much more without having to pay vat. tax,prsi and wages going north.:mad::mad::mad:
Council must feel good to get bargains like that.
You can't keep the Irish down.:cool::cool:

Clam

Wertz wrote: »

I came on to the board to post something about this (and the Leader in general) and I find someone else has started a thread. Great minds, etc.
You raise all the points I was going to and I've nothing really to add.
I'd love to know who runs this "newspaper" that I'm lumbered with every week, what their real interest is here with this article...

As for Dundalk retailers? As I've said in other threads across the site on this issue, it's not a new one for the town...the flow of business across the border has always been there, but when the recent large numbers started in the past 2 or so years, where were the reactions by local retailers and businesses back then? Where was the attempt to cut prices to remain competitive? Oh that's right, we were all up our necks in cash and it didn't matter.
This is not a new problem and it's not up to consumers to fix it.
Why on earth should we pay 20-30% over the odds for the exact same products sometimes bought from the same companies for the supposed benefit of supporting council rates and local employment? Why is it a business in Newry can sell me something for X amount, pay it's staff, it's rates, it's overheads and still turn a profit, but the same business in Dundalk has to sell it to me for Y amount, that amount Y being on average 20% more expensive by the time the same business expenses are taken into account. Please don't quote 6% VAT rate difference or wage variations...they do NOT account for the price differentials and I have yet to see it proved otherwise despite repeated attempts by people to do so both on these forums and in the media.
When you see moves like the council increasing on-street parking fees in the town last night (by ~17%) it makes you wonder if the interests of shoppers and locals are taken into account at all.

I'd rate the Leader as being marginally more interesting than Alive and marginally less smug than the Argus weekender, but that's about the height of it. Can't say I'd miss any of them if someone glued my letterbox shut...

But the answer is that simple, we have the highest cost of living in europe, we had more wages we had more spend, Look we can buy anything in japan or thailand for cheaper because its a lower cost of living, Britain has had one of the lowest costs of living in europe in the last few years, the cost add up, Our mini-um wage packet here is 8 quid, 7 pound, britian has a minimum wage is 4.65, that adds up, We shot ourselves in the foot though, If we want stuff for cheaper we gotta work for less, or not work at all

Clam

tonym467 wrote: »

Most are tendered to companies from the north who import all their concrete,stone,blocks and much more without having to pay vat. tax,prsi and wages going north.:mad::mad::mad:

Southern business benefit just as much from the same tax entitlements as much as northern business does here, Lets be honest we pissed most of our wealth against the wall, when the country has truly sunk ship, the only thing we will be able to show for the boom is the roads, which by the way have turned to a big pile of overgrown Shiite in the last while, weeds galore

Wertz

Clam wrote: »

But the answer is that simple, we have the highest cost of living in europe, we had more wages we had more spend, Look we can buy anything in japan or thailand for cheaper because its a lower cost of living, Britain has had one of the lowest costs of living in europe in the last few years, the cost add up, Our mini-um wage packet here is 8 quid, 7 pound, britian has a minimum wage is 4.65, that adds up, We shot ourselves in the foot though, If we want stuff for cheaper we gotta work for less, or not work at all

....and I say again that minimum wage rates are not the sole contributing factor here (nor are VAT differential or higher taxes).
Since I posted that there have been a few more enquiries into price differences by Dáil commitees (speaking of the overpaid) and the upshot seemed to be that certain suppliers in the market are/have been milking the country en masse and that in many areas high rents are a major contributor as well...that explains some grocery/domestic goods being so out of kilter with the UK, but it doesn't get near to making up for the discrepancies for the likes of electronics and furniture...and I'm sorry but the reactions of retailers here are still failing to impress...most of the reductions I've noticed are piecemeal and fail to impress.
Listen, I agree that we've all been paying each other too much but to say that the minimum wage is the main focus of that problem is foolish...I'm far more concerned with the highly waged public sector (yadda yadda) being paid for excusively from the tax pool, as a contributing factor to the high costs of doing business here than I am about what checkout staff and shelfpackers get for their 39 hours hard graft. You can't in good conscience blame the lowest paid for this whole set of problems and to do so is mere scapegoating and smacks of the rhetoric of big business and central government.

EBIW

I'm from the North or "Nort" as you call it.

If seen this work both ways for years especially with fuel prices. Fuel was a lot cheaper in the "Nort" and Petrol Stations sprung up all over the "Nortern" side of the border.

Then the pendlum swung the other way and a lot of them closed.

Your low corporation tax was a master stroke as you attracted all the foriegn investment from large American companies etc whilst we were lumbered with the UK rate.

Looking from the outside in, I think ROI has been living above it's means for years now, every holiday resort in europe full with partying Irish people while Ireland was full of Polish people doing the all the work!

You got away with it for a lot longer than I thought you would but now it's pay back time.

A lot of things need to change now, some are within your power but some are not.

Minimum wage needs reduced to match UK, VAT needs reduced to match UK you simply cannot have big tax variations with a land bordering country. These are within your power and should be done now.

Another problem is currency rates and a 30% swing against the currency of a land bordered country is going to cause problems.

Unfortunately this is out of your control because you don't have your own currency, you don't have control over your interest rates and hence cannot control inflation/deflation.

The Euro has it's good points, has became a very strong currency (maybe too strong) displacing the US$ as the currency of choice for a lot of international trade but may not be the best thing for Ireland at the mo.

I'm glad we're not in the Euro and sterling is weak at the moment because I think we need a weak currency to help exports and discourage imports at this time of ecomonic downturn.

Good luck to all and keep bringing your lovely, much appreciated Euros "Nort!"

Stephen

Belfast

Mr Magnolia

If you think the problems arose due to the influx of workers from Europe and the Irish taking holidays abroad then you're deluded. We needed people from all over Europe to fill positions that needed to be filled due to the booming economy of the celtic tiger. Nobody forseen the swing but it's here and it's global.

There may be advantages if the punt was still our currency of use, devaluing it would cause problems it's own problems though. Europe and the euro has served us very well to date and will continue to do so especially as a border county.

Me? I don't shop any more from the UK or elsewhere now than I did before, I'll do what I've always done and continue to support local industry and local business.



Oh and by the way, you're the only one referring to it as 'Nort'.

EBIW

Hello

I didn't say there was one reason, I think there are many factors. I know it's a global downturn and doesn't just effect ROI but you are a particular basket case one of the PIGS (which should be spelt with 2 i's).

Of course holidays weren't to blame nor were foriegn workers but they were general indicators of an unsustainable situation. A country living beyond it's means, spending more than it was earning. Getting away with it because of artificially cheap money made available by an interest rate out of sync with your ecomony.

Sure look on the bright side, it was great fun while it lasted, I was jealous!

The "Nort" ting was just a wee joke! Has Ireland lost it's sense of humor too?

Stephen

Belfast

Mr Magnolia

I find myself disagreeing with the detail, but that's where the devil hides:

We weren't spending more than we were earning, we were earning multitudes. The proof is there; we had increased spending across all sectors while we also reduced our national debt by record amounts. Of course, we weren't conservative [enough] in our spending and mostly mismanaged what we did spend, our national debt is most certainly going to rise as a result of the mismanaged boom.

Humour is subjective, I didn't detect humerous tones in your original post.

EBIW

"Humour is subjective, I didn't detect humerous tones in your original post."

No probs but I thought the would have been enough.

Stephen

Belfast

Mr Magnolia

EBIW wrote: »

No probs but I thought the would have been enough.

Stephen

Belfast

That little smiley is misunderstood everywhere he goes

Welcome to the boards by the way.

EBIW

LOL, I only ended up here googling for Dundalk Leader because my picture might be in it! Their photographer took a photo of me and GF and charity hill walk up the cooleys from Lumpers in Ravensdale on Sunday.

Sorry, I cause trouble everywhere I go!

Stephen

Belfast

Mr Magnolia

I'll have a look this evening and let you know if there's any of shots from Ravensdale there.

Mr Magnolia

EBIW wrote: »

LOL, I only ended up here googling for Dundalk Leader because my picture might be in it! Their photographer took a photo of me and GF and charity hill walk up the cooleys from Lumpers in Ravensdale

Nothing of that nature that I could see I'm afraid.

Mr Magnolia

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

We needed people from all over Europe to fill positions that needed to be filled due to the booming economy of the celtic tiger.

Most of them were working for less than minimum wage, they weren't brought in to "fill positions that needed to be filled", they were cheap labour so their employers could get richer.

markopantelic

if it wasn't for them prices would have been through the roof.

Mr Magnolia

hellboy99 wrote: »

Most of them were working for less than minimum wage, they weren't brought in to "fill positions that needed to be filled", they were cheap labour so their employers could get richer.

It's widely accepted that Ireland needed to bring in workers from abroad to fill positions that we could not fill otherwise, look at the number of Filipino nurses for example.

While I agree that exploitation occured, I won't accept that "most" of them were working for less than minimum wage. In economic good times trade unions flourish, most large sites and businesses where the majority of these workers were/are based are trade union compliant and rates would have to be paid. Smaller mostly unregulated businesses may have been less scrupulous but these are certainly in the minority in my opinion.

EBIW

Perhaps some were working below the minium wage. Most were working for lower wages than their Irish counterparts for longer hours and often in unpleasant conditions.
The problem is, they have since left with or sent home a lot of that money.
The oppisite happened years ago, with Irish people standing on street corners in London hoping to be picked up for a days work on a building site.
In a few years we could be going to Poland in search of work!

Stephen

Belfast

markopantelic

well actually did you know that there is a growing trend of homeless eastern europeans and northern europeans(lithuanians, latvians)

mada999

well i've had enough about publicans complaining about no one going to pubs..

I was in a very well known and frequented pub about 2 months ago in Dundalk and they are selling uk bottles of Carlsberg (the 3.8% smaller ones that you get in the north) for the same price of a normal bottle....they have some cheek...fook em i say... if they want people in the pubs - get them to lower their prices.. greedy fooks..

TommyT

Is there a pub in town that isnt selling drink from the north?

With todays exchange rate is it really worth going to Newry these days for the weekly shop?

mada999

TommyT wrote: »

Is there a pub in town that isnt selling drink from the north?

wha? there's others? is this not illegal???

TommyT

Go to Dunnes and Sainsburys any day of the week and you will see vans and jeeps with horseboxes filling up with drink. My nephew works in Dunnesand he says there is one man comes up from the south in a D reg jeep and horsebox, he spends 70k regularly.