High end Tokai or Bacchus Les Paul?

Kenny_D

Bit of a dilemma. Been offered this Tokai LS250 for €1500 (usually retails at €2000+):





Now the problem is, do I get this or go for this similarly priced Bacchus:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Bacchus-Japan-Duke-LP-Ice-tea-burst-Flame-Top-4181_W0QQitemZ230293764086QQihZ013QQcategoryZ2384QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

The Bacchus would probably come to about €1500 including import fees and delivery. The tokai would be shipped from inside EU so no import fees to pay and low delivery.

And to throw a spanner in the works, I was considering picking up an Edwards Les Paul. I'd rather spend around €1000 on a new LP but I don't mind stretching to €1500 for something special like the higher end tokai or the bacchus.

What do you guys reckon? So many LP's to choose from (Tokai, Bacchus, Edwards, Fujigen) :pac:

Doctor J

I think the Bacchus and Tokai are the better guitars in the ones you mentioned, most definitely, and I ****in loved Ste's Tokai 335... but if I had to choose, I'd go with the Duke. I love my own one with P90's and yesterday was the first time I got to play Boycey's one with humbuckers and, apart from the beautiful build of the guitar, Bacchus' pickups blow me away every time. Boycey's one just has this sweet, sweet tone, it makes a beautiful noise and that'd be the clincher for me.

Patricide

Ooo, thats a really tough decision. I cant give much feedback here but im interested to see peoples opinions.

Kenny_D

Did Ste have his LS200 with him yesterday? See I'm also thinkin I could get a decent Edwards 98lts delivered for under €800 and then use the €800 left over to pick up something like a nice Cornford Roadhouse or another small higher gain amp (Matamp First Lady?). I use my strat with my Fender Blues Deluxe so the LP would be for playing some heavier music and I'd probably be looking into another amp down the line anyway

Dord

Out of the various Japanese LP's I tried yesterday, I prefered the looks and sound of the Tokai, with the Fugijen in very very close second place.

I was informed also that the headstock shape really matters on the Tokai's, apparently the ones with the little dimple thingy are worth less.

Dord

GStormcrow wrote: »

Did Ste have his LS200 with him yesterday? See I'm also thinkin I could get a decent Edwards 98lts delivered for under €800 and then use the €800 left over to pick up something like a nice Cornford Roadhouse or another small higher gain amp (Matamp First Lady?). I use my strat with my Fender Blues Deluxe so the LP would be for playing some heavier music and I'd probably be looking into another amp down the line anyway

Yup, he had the LS200 with him. Beautiful guitar!

Kenny_D

Dord wrote: »

Out of the various Japanese LP's I tried yesterday, I prefered the looks and sound of the Tokai, with the Fugijen in very very close second place.

I was informed also that the headstock shape really matters on the Tokai's, apparently the ones with the little dimple thingy are worth less.

Yeah that headstock thing is to do with models sold in the UK not allowed have the exact headstock as a Gibson. The original headstock are apparently a bit more expensive. Personally I don't care too much about the headstock as long as the guitar plays and feels good

Doctor J

Tha Bacchus have a fatter neck than the Tokai and Fujigen, that might be something worth considering.

spoonbadger

Bare in mind, that you may still need to change the pickups even after you drop 1500 on one of these. Unless bacchus/tokai have changed, from what i've always been told, the stock P'ups aint great.

Guitar forums usually seem to hold high-end-bacchus above high-end-tokais, but i doubt there would be much in the difference really. Good luck with your dilemma, and maybe put up a thread here http://www.tokaiforum.com/.

They specialise in all MIJ guitars, so if anyone can help you,they can .

Kenny_D

Cheers. I'm already a frequent member on tokaiforum. Might throw up a post later alright

feylya

Stock pickups in a Bacchus not great?! :eek: You might want to rethink that one - the pickups in the Bacchuses yesterday were nothing short of outstanding.

Dord

Yeah I agree, the stock pickups in the Bacchusseses were awesome. The Tokai LP's pickups were sweet, really hot and nice sounding. The Fugijen wasn't as hot though.

feylya

No, the Fuji is more of a classic kinda sound. Not a Les Paul sound though :pac:

Doctor J

If there's one thing that Bacchus do well, it's pickups. From the Duke to the Empire, the P to the 5, their pickups are spot on, there is no reason at all to swap them out. I'm absolutley stunned someone would say that. I'm guessing it's a hangover from the 80's where a lot of the lower budget MIJ stuff did have crap pickups. The pickups in the two Tokai yesterday were superb too, and the Fujigen.

Squirrel

Based on looks I'd go for the Tokai, the Bacchus looks, different, with the rectangular inlays starting at the third fret, like a custom's, minus the first fret. But I would love to be in your position

boycey

Hi GStormcrow-
if you can make a trip out to Clonee (just past the Blanch Centre) ya can give my Bacchus a good going over. Might help with a tough decision!! Either way I think you'll end up with a sweet guitar. Ste's Tokai is a cracker, great pickups and looks fantastic. Ditto my Bacchus! Best guitar purchase ever for me:)
PM me if you want to check The Duke out, youre more than welcome.

Quattroste

I agree with Boycey GS. High End Tokai or Bacchus will get you a great guitar. Both are comparable priced. I would have said the Bacchus pups ae better than the Tokai Mk2's but no one complained about the Mk2's in my ES100 and that guitar was the cheapest JP made Tokai semi.

Fingers Mcginty

Man that's expensive for a LP copy :eek: quality instruments no doubt but I don't know if you'll ever get anywhere close to what you're paying if you decide to sell in the future.

Quattroste

Fingers Mcginty wrote: »

Man that's expensive for a LP copy :eek: quality instruments no doubt but I don't know if you'll ever get anywhere close to what you're paying if you decide to sell in the future.

I'm not so sure about that. The high end Tokai's seem to keep thier value very well and to be honest I haven't seen that many second hand Bacchus's for sale which says a lot in itself.

What you are calling expensive for "a copy" is not true either. What you are getting is far better than any "original" in that price range, and most likely any original at double that price range.

Kenny_D

I made a profit on the last Tokai I sold. Though it was a rare vintage model which are highly sought after and have gone up in price over the last few years. I got it for a great price and sold it for a good price

Doctor J

Fingers Mcginty wrote: »

Man that's expensive for a LP copy :eek: quality instruments no doubt but I don't know if you'll ever get anywhere close to what you're paying if you decide to sell in the future.

You either buy the designer label or you buy the better guitar. I go with what in my opinion is the better guitar, which still costs less than the designer label. Perhaps it's time the designer label started copying the copies