What 15 would u like for the lions

twinytwo

1 Andrew Sheridan
2 Jerry Flannery
3 Euan Murray
4 Alun Wyn Jones
5 Paul O Connell
6 R Jones
7 Martyn Willams
8 David Wallace
9 Mike Blair
10 Ronan O Gara/Steven Jones
11 Shane Williams
12 Luke Fitzgearld/(D'arcy if fit.. doubt it)
13 Brian O Driscoll
14 Rob Kearney
15 Lee Byrne

based on current form the team would prob be mostly welsh and irish players... but we shall see what happens ... I like Powell of 8 but maybe the lack of experience my let him down

toomevara

twinytwo wrote: »

1 Andrew Sheridan
2 Jerry Flannery
3 Euan Murray
4 Alun Wyn Jones
5 Paul O Connell
6 R Jones
7 Martyn Willams
8 David Wallace
9 Mike Blair
10 Ronan O Gara/Steven Jones
11 Shane Williams
12 Luke Fitzgearld/(D'arcy if fit.. doubt it)
13 Brian O Driscoll
14 Rob Kearney
15 Lee Byrne

based on current form the team would prob be mostly welsh and irish players... but we shall see what happens ... I like Powell of 8 but maybe the lack of experience my let him down

Personally I'd like a few Frenchmen and Sergio Parisse. We might have some hope then...come on the European lions...

twinytwo

toomevara wrote: »

Personally I'd like a few Frenchmen and Sergio Parisse. We might have some hope then...come on the European lions...

Go on away.... that team would easily beat the boks... with the ball carriers in that team and the kicking ability in O'gara,Kearney,Byrne... plus the line out and the attack.... we dont need the french... maybe against the AB's but not the boks

toomevara

twinytwo wrote: »

we dont need the french... maybe against the AB's but not the boks

Ho, ho...twiny I absolutely love your unshakeable optimism. The Boks at home against the Lions is possibly the only rugby challenge on a par with playing the AB's in the land of the long white cloud. As things stand, the team you've outined, (full of good players, no doubt, will be minced by the Boks)..Different class altogether I'm afraid, which when combined with the scratch nature of a Lions outfit...well it could be embarrasing. (all this is of course contingent on the Boks not self-destructing over political/racial issues in the next 12 months.

The Lions, much as I absolutely love it to bits, is a concept in need of some serious updating for the professional era. Let the French and the Eyeties have a crack, and while we're at it a few Georgian props would be nice!

Digifriendly

toomevara wrote: »

Personally I'd like a few Frenchmen and Sergio Parisse. We might have some hope then...come on the European lions...

Can't really understand the argument for European Lions except that they would play a combined Tri-Nations side i.e. 6 nations vs Tri-nations. British and Irish Lions has been going for over a century now and no need to change the product. While tours to NZ (2005) and Australia (2001) were ultimately unsuccessful let's not forget triumphs in S. Africa (1997), Australia (1989) and very close losing series in NZ (1993) as well as success further back - NZ (1971) and unbeaten tour to S. Africa (1974). Don't change the product I say!

twinytwo

toomevara wrote: »

Ho, ho...twiny I absolutely love your unshakeable optimism. The Boks at home against the Lions is possibly the only rugby challenge on a par with playing the AB's in the land of the long white cloud. As things stand, the team you've outined, (full of good players, no doubt, will be minced by the Boks)..Different class altogether I'm afraid, which when combined with the scratch nature of a Lions outfit...well it could be embarrasing. (all this is of course contingent on the Boks not self-destructing over political/racial issues in the next 12 months.

The Lions, much as I absolutely love it to bits, is a concept in need of some serious updating for the professional era. Let the French and the Eyeties have a crack, and while we're at it a few Georgian props would be nice!

Ya alright... back to the OP if you please

Heroditas

twinytwo wrote: »

10 Ronan O Gara

based on current form the team would prob be mostly welsh and irish players...

Jones or Hook for fly-half..... O'Gara hasn't shown any form on the international stage this season. If he wishes to be Lions 10, he'll need to improve massively in the 6N.

twinytwo

Heroditas wrote: »

Jones or Hook for fly-half..... O'Gara hasn't shown any form on the international stage this season. If he wishes to be Lions 10, he'll need to improve massively in the 6N.

Fair enough but then im hoping he will improve... Jones is good though he will prob take the jesery so long as nothing happens to him.

toomevara

Heroditas wrote: »

Jones or Hook for fly-half..... O'Gara hasn't shown any form on the international stage this season. If he wishes to be Lions 10, he'll need to improve massively in the 6N.

All academic and a tad precipitous tbh, tour a long way off. But, on current form, I'd bring both Hook and Jones, but I sense O'Gara may have something to say about that by the end of the current 6N, reckon he's finding his feet again.

Danny Care will also challenge blair for the scrummie berth, but God knows how many of these guys will be left standing come next summer.

keane2097

Hopefully Danny Cipriani will deliver on early promise over the coming months and put a bit of pressure on the other flyhalfs...

Crash

I'd say it'll be Jones taking the number 10 shirt, unless there's some major shift during the 6N's.

ThomasH

twinytwo wrote: »

Go on away.... that team would easily beat the boks... with the ball carriers in that team and the kicking ability in O'gara,Kearney,Byrne... plus the line out and the attack.... we dont need the french... maybe against the AB's but not the boks

You are having a laugh dude SA never even got into 1st gear (never mind second, third and fourth) and still won all their matches

Your team is a bit biased some from a non-biased supporter heres my selection:

1 Andrew Sheridan
2 Jerry Flannery
3 Gethin Jenkins
4 Alun Wyn Jones
5 Paul O Connell
6 R Jones
7 Martyn Willams
8 Andy Powell
9 Mike Blair
10 Steven Jones
11 Shane Williams
12 Gavin Henson
13 Brian O Driscoll
14 Paul Sackey
15 Lee Byrne

I don't think some of the above players should be there, i.e Sackey but just to keep the queen happy :P

anonymous_joe

On form and personal bias...

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Ross Ford
3. Euan Murray/Adam Jones

4. Hines
5. Alun Wyn Jones

6. Haskell/Ferris/Ryan Jones
7. Williams
8. Powell

9. Mike Blair.
10. Wilkinson/Hook (Jones if Wilkinson's not fit)

11. Shane Williams (tough one :pac:)
12. O'Driscoll (as potentially captain)
13. Fitzgerald/Jamie Roberts
14. Kearney/Sackey
15. Lee Byrne/Geordan Murphy

keane2097

ThomasH wrote: »

You are having a laugh dude SA never even got into 1st gear (never mind second, third and fourth) and still won all their matches

Your team is a bit biased some from a non-biased supporter heres my selection:

1 Andrew Sheridan
2 Jerry Flannery
3 Gethin Jenkins
4 Alun Wyn Jones
5 Paul O Connell
6 R Jones
7 Martyn Willams
8 Andy Powell
9 Mike Blair
10 Steven Jones
11 Shane Williams
12 Gavin Henson
13 Brian O Driscoll
14 Paul Sackey
15 Lee Byrne

I don't think some of the above players should be there, i.e Sackey but just to keep the queen happy :P

:eek::eek::eek:

ThomasH

In fairness Henson is a bit overrated but compared to over centres he can create gaps for teammates, kick, guide the backline and generally read the game.

anonymous_joe

Henson's a brilliant player. A good 6Nations could get him into the Lions.

He's not the best centre in the world, he's not as good as O'Driscoll, but he is a very very good centre. He'd be a superb weapon to have at 12 as well. Solid in the tackle, great boot, can run with the ball and a decent playmaker.

ALH-06

Why the hell would we want France and Italy in the Lions? Our national side could do with a few French players too, but that aint gonna happen because Ireland is Ireland. The Lions is the Lions.

I hate the French for what they've inflicted on Irish rugby over the last few years! Think how much stronger Irish rugby would be if we'd won two 6Ns, and reached the QFs or further in RWC '03 and '07? Completely hypothetical of course but imagine!

Those damn Frenchies have been a thorn in our side for ages, why should we let them into the esteemed (and profitable!) Lions set-up?

PS: I will NEVER forgive French rugby or Vincent Clerc for Croke Park '07.

Apologies for tangent

anonymous_joe

Great try that. Still have nightmares where Paul O'Connell has to make a simple tackle to save the world... :pac:

Webbs

ThomasH wrote: »

You are having a laugh dude SA never even got into 1st gear (never mind second, third and fourth) and still won all their matches

Your team is a bit biased some from a non-biased supporter heres my selection:

1 Andrew Sheridan
2 Jerry Flannery
3 Gethin Jenkins
4 Alun Wyn Jones
5 Paul O Connell
6 R Jones
7 Martyn Willams
8 Andy Powell
9 Mike Blair
10 Steven Jones
11 Shane Williams
12 Gavin Henson
13 Brian O Driscoll
14 Paul Sackey
15 Lee Byrne

I don't think some of the above players should be there, i.e Sackey but just to keep the queen happy :P

Cant really argue much with that selection - Powell is still unproven though, he has benefited hugely from the ELVs and got confidence going, but I fear he will be like Quinlan and be a penalty machine and end up a liability.

No 10 is a problem position Jones is as ever mr consistency in a red shirt but as much as it pains me to say it if Cipriani hits anywhere near his potential then he will be there (mind you same could be said for Hook) - there is no other 10 close to having the composure to deal with SA at home.

Henson needs to stay fit and will be a shoe in as the midfield defence will need his and O'driscolls organisational skills (if they can work together!!)

I would find it very hard to leave Kearney out of the team so would take sackeys place - which would mean that there would have to be an englishman somewhere (probably in the second row in place of AWJ - though that wouldnt be deserved)

ThomasH

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Henson's a brilliant player. A good 6Nations could get him into the Lions.

He's not the best centre in the world, he's not as good as O'Driscoll, but he is a very very good centre. He'd be a superb weapon to have at 12 as well. Solid in the tackle, great boot, can run with the ball and a decent playmaker.

Spot on Joe, my exact thoughts! Great minds think alike!

Why the hell would we want France and Italy in the Lions? Our national side could do with a few French players too, but that aint gonna happen because Ireland is Ireland. The Lions is the Lions.

I hate the French for what they've inflicted on Irish rugby over the last few years! Think how much stronger Irish rugby would be if we'd won two 6Ns, and reached the QFs or further in RWC '03 and '07? Completely hypothetical of course but imagine!

Those damn Frenchies have been a thorn in our side for ages, why should we let them into the esteemed (and profitable!) Lions set-up?

PS: I will NEVER forgive French rugby or Vincent Clerc for Croke Park '07.

Apologies for tangent

Spot on again. France could do with a few Irish players too

ThomasH

Webbs wrote: »

Cant really argue much with that selection - Powell is still unproven though, he has benefited hugely from the ELVs and got confidence going, but I fear he will be like Quinlan and be a penalty machine and end up a liability.

What I like about him is his physical presence and the way he is not scared to bash through the boks forwards, something they don't generally like.

No 10 is a problem position Jones is as ever mr consistency in a red shirt but as much as it pains me to say it if Cipriani hits anywhere near his potential then he will be there (mind you same could be said for Hook) - there is no other 10 close to having the composure to deal with SA at home.

I think between Jones, Hook and O'Gara if they have a good 6N then they should do it. O'Gara never had a good match in SA in the past at altitude so might count against him. I think if Cipriani was playing for Scotland or Italy there won't be such a big fuss. Eng media is making out that he is the next JW. C is too inconsistent and huge liability on defence.

I would find it very hard to leave Kearney out of the team so would take sackeys place - which would mean that there would have to be an englishman somewhere (probably in the second row in place of AWJ - though that wouldnt be deserved)

I was gona put Kearney in as Sackey is average. Only reason is could not think of any other Eng player who would make it. Fitzgerald should also get a chance as a replacement.

Stev_o

15.Byrne
14.M.Jones/R.Lamount
13.D.Armitage
12.Roberts
11.S.Williams
10.S.Jones
9.Cooper? (Never thought id say that but man is he in form) or the mandatory Blair
8.Powell
7.Barkley/M.Williams/A.Hogg
6.R.Jones (C)/D. Wallace
5.AW Jones
4.N Hines
3.Jenkins
2.R.Ford/Bennet
1.Murray

First of all someone make sure those props are right i can for the life of me remember which is which.

Anyway tbh after the AI this is the team id want to play, it should be mostly Wales and then a few of the Scottish contingent given their performance against SA. Id have Armtiage in with him probably being the only good thing to come from England. Wallace would have to go considering the physicality of the SA pack and depending on whether its going to be a all out brawl he'll start at 7 if not then he ll get the bench position.

ThomasH

De Villiers and Jacobs are a good centre combination and of all the recent NH centres O'Driscoll and Henson are the two who always have good games against the boks. Both of them can also read the game well.

Stev_o

ThomasH wrote: »

De Villiers and Jacobs are a good centre combination and of all the recent NH centres O'Driscoll and Henson are the two who always have good games against the boks. Both of them can also read the game well.

Well JDV is probably one of the best centers around at the moment. Henson cant string a series of games together and plus Roberts is proving a massive success at 12. BOD is beyond out of form and i cant see what we will get playing him in the tour.

twinytwo

is no one giving d'arcy a shot.. or is it too much to hope for him to be back for the six nations??... did i not hear he was back training with leinster?

anonymous_joe

twinytwo wrote: »

is no one giving d'arcy a shot.. or is it too much to hope for him to be back for the six nations??... did i not hear he was back training with leinster?

He should be back relatively, but it's a case of out of sight out of mind. Like Henson he's not played much rugby as of late, both remain very talented, and could stake a claim for a place on the tour. All comes down to how they start playing over the next few months.

Chucky the tree

ThomasH wrote: »

You are having a laugh dude SA never even got into 1st gear (never mind second, third and fourth) and still won all their matches

Your team is a bit biased some from a non-biased supporter heres my selection:

1 Andrew Sheridan
2 Jerry Flannery
3 Gethin Jenkins
4 Alun Wyn Jones
5 Paul O Connell
6 R Jones
7 Martyn Willams
8 Andy Powell
9 Mike Blair
10 Steven Jones
11 Shane Williams
12 Gavin Henson
13 Brian O Driscoll
14 Paul Sackey
15 Lee Byrne

I don't think some of the above players should be there, i.e Sackey but just to keep the queen happy :P

winrar. A bit of non-bias is always good.

As for the OP's selection, Fitz has done nothing at 12 for Ireland, isnt even a regular at 12 for Leinster yet he's good enough for the Lions? :pac: Similiar view of Kearney, he's not a great winger.

Sparky14

I reckon one of the young English guys will put there hand up during the six nations. Would personally love to see the pace of Shane Geraghty in the centre, obviously won't happen unless he gets a run. I also rate Flutey.

Sparky14

Stev_o wrote: »

Well JDV is probably one of the best centers around at the moment. Henson cant string a series of games together and plus Roberts is proving a massive success at 12. BOD is beyond out of form and i cant see what we will get playing him in the tour.

Not too sure I'd like to see Henson's loose style against interception specialist De Villiers.

Stick_man

Lions will bear red claws.

It has been an autumn of discontent for Ian McGeehan and his coaching team to ponder, all the home nations with the exception of Wales failed to fire leaving the lions boss in something of quandary when it comes to a form guide. No test squad, let alone team is selected in December but with only the Heineken cup and the Six nations left as any real barometer of consistency time is already running out for the Lions to assemble a squad to defeat the springbok’s next summer. These autumn tests were the first true indicator with regards to squad selection and three of the four Lions nations did little to quell the view that a South Africa series win seems inevitable. A developing Irish side under the new tutelage of Declan Kidney showed scant attacking promise in their defeat to the All Blacks while a much needed victory over Argentina merited praise only for a committed pack effort. Scotland, despite a spirited showing against South Africa were dismantled by a second string New Zealand and have yet to turn that habitual corner that is mooted every year. England celebrated a facile victory over the Pacific Islanders before submitting an abject performance against Australia, worse followed a week later with their smashing by the springbok’s before their discipline disintegrated against the All Blacks. It was left to the vibrancy of Wales, who with their dedication to attack and keep ball in hand left a glimmer of hope on the Lions horizon.

If McGeehan was compelled to select his test team this morning, the case for a majority Welsh contingent would be overwhelming. It is not merely the slashing swivel of Shane Williams that characterise this Welsh side but rather the intelligence and precision of their off-loading game that has propelled them to the summit of the northern hemisphere. The discovery of Andy Powell as a number eight of serious international ability has been the success story of the autumn while the enduring class of Stephen Jones has given him a shot at retaining the Lions no: 10 he wore in New Zealand. The enduring Martin Williams with the durable Ryan Jones will surely come into any back-row thinking. The Lions full-back position is injury withstanding Lee Byrne’s to lose. Even Gavin Henson conspicuous only by his absence these last few months could come into the reckoning at twelve given the paucity of flair available for that position. Alun Wyn-Jones astonishing tackle count allayed to his powerful athleticism should see him partner Paul O Connell in the second row to challenge the sinewy steel of Matfield and Botha.

The awesome raw physicality of South Africa can only be countered with the Welsh blueprint for attack. Sir Clive Woodward made the cardinal error of going like for like against the All Backs three years ago, sacrificing the likes of Shane Williams for simple physical presence. The Lions cannot smash this beast of a pack but it may negate it by adapting the Welsh design. There may be a long way to go but so far at least it seems the Lions will breathe dragon fire next summer.

Lions twenty-two: 15:L.Byrne 14:S.Williams 13:B.O Driscoll 12:G.Henson 11:R.Kearney 10:S.Jones 9:M.Blair 8:A.Powell 7:D.Wallace 6:R.Jones 5:P.O Connell {c} 4:A.W-Jones 3:M.Stevens 2:R.Ford 1:A.Sheridan

16:G.Jenkins 17:J.Flannery 18:N.Hines 19:M.Williams 20:M.Phillips 21:R.O Gara 22:L.Fitzgearld.

twinytwo

Chucky the tree wrote: »

winrar. A bit of non-bias is always good.

As for the OP's selection, Fitz has done nothing at 12 for Ireland, isnt even a regular at 12 for Leinster yet he's good enough for the Lions? :pac: Similiar view of Kearney, he's not a great winger.

true.. he is nearly the perfect FB... but obviously we cant have both Kearney and byrne in the same position... but i think to leave him off the team would be a big mistake as we would need his left boot and he is excellent under the high ball.... also name another winger who can nail a DG from just short of half way?

ThomasH

Stick_man wrote: »

Lions will bear red claws.

The awesome raw physicality of South Africa can only be countered with the Welsh blueprint for attack. Sir Clive Woodward made the cardinal error of going like for like against the All Backs three years ago, sacrificing the likes of Shane Williams for simple physical presence. The Lions cannot smash this beast of a pack but it may negate it by adapting the Welsh design. There may be a long way to go but so far at least it seems the Lions will breathe dragon fire next summer.

I think the only two teams that can play a clever game and win against the boks are NZ and Aus. Springboks defence is one of their key things at the moment and Lions must not underestimate it.

TBH, I can't see how the Lions are going to beat the boks in their own backyard with the current crob of players both teams have. BUT, I must say one thing a bok team has never ever liked before is the way other teams get up and physical in their faces and bully them before the SA pack can get going. Then the Lions might have a chance but highly unlikely.

Chucky the tree

twinytwo wrote: »

true.. he is nearly the perfect FB... but obviously we cant have both Kearney and byrne in the same position... but i think to leave him off the team would be a big mistake as we would need his left boot and he is excellent under the high ball.... also name another winger who can nail a DG from just short of half way?

I'd rather a winger who has alot of pace and can score some tries then one who can hit a DG from half way. Also, if he nearly the perfect full back why cant he get his game at FB for Leinster or Ireland? Unless your saying Dempsey is the perfect FB?

anonymous_joe

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'd rather a winger who has alot of pace and can score some tries then one who can hit a DG from half way. Also, if he nearly the perfect full back why cant he get his game at FB for Leinster or Ireland? Unless your saying Dempsey is the perfect FB?

Because the way I look at it:

Dempsey at FB and Kearney at wing is more formidable than Kearney at FB and ... at wing.

Danger_Dave

Stick_man wrote: »

Lions will bear red claws.

I

There should be a good number of Welsh players in the starting line up, however id only like to see 2 welsh players in the pack. If theres 4-5 welsh players in pack we'll end up losing everygame and by 12-20 points. You need a Big strong physical pack against South Africa, with a superb lineout and steady scrum. Unfornately Wales's pack is not strong enough against South africa and if its over loaded with Red were going to be overrun.

With a strong welsh backline and williams at 7 to link up play with a Irish/Scot/Eng pack it could be good team to give SA a run for there money.


P.S I actually thing Bynre is the best FB available at the moment. Unless Rob Kearny is played at FB for Ireland in 6 nations he wont start at FB for the lions.

Chucky the tree

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Because the way I look at it:

Dempsey at FB and Kearney at wing is more formidable than Kearney at FB and ... at wing.

Shocking state of affairs for the Irish wing situation, and the Lions if Kearney ends up getting picked. I'd be amazed if he was though.

anonymous_joe

We've f all wingers.

And rumour has it the Leinster academy let a few lads go who were wingers because they're not versatile enough for the modern game.

remus808

What would I LIKE to see?

1. Jenkins/Sheridan
2. Hartley
3. Murray
4. Wyn-Jones
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris/O'Brien
7. Wallace
8. Powell/Jones
9. Peel/Care
10. Cipriani
11. Williams
12. Henson
13. O'Driscoll/Fitzgerald
14. Bowe/Sackey
15. Byrne/Kearney

Webbs

Danger_Dave wrote: »

There should be a good number of Welsh players in the starting line up, however id only like to see 2 welsh players in the pack. If theres 4-5 welsh players in pack we'll end up losing everygame and by 12-20 points. You need a Big strong physical pack against South Africa, with a superb lineout and steady scrum. Unfornately Wales's pack is not strong enough against South africa and if its over loaded with Red were going to be overrun.

With a strong welsh backline and williams at 7 to link up play with a Irish/Scot/Eng pack it could be good team to give SA a run for there money.


P.S I actually thing Bynre is the best FB available at the moment. Unless Rob Kearny is played at FB for Ireland in 6 nations he wont start at FB for the lions.

The way to beat the SA is to put your point of attack away from where the big hits are going to come so that means ball handling forwards with good offloading skills. Thats the game Wales are playing at the moment so I guess they would have more players in the pack than 2.
Of course you need grunt as well but as the Welsh forwards didnt struggle against SA recently, I reckon you will have a minimum of 3 and more likely 4 welsh forwards. I for one would love to see AWJ as he has good combination of grunt and handling skills and would I think be inspired to better things packing down next to POC

Frankie Lee

Sheridan
Ford
Adam Jones
AW Jones
Hines
R Jones
M Williams
Powell
Peel
Hook
Williams
Flutey
O'Driscoll
Johne Murphy (best winger in the GP)
Byrne

twinytwo

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'd rather a winger who has alot of pace and can score some tries then one who can hit a DG from half way. Also, if he nearly the perfect full back why cant he get his game at FB for Leinster or Ireland? Unless your saying Dempsey is the perfect FB?

Dempsey is nothing of the sort... as for kearney the only thing he lacks is experience.How many times when he was playing FB has he saved our ass?.. the example i like to give was in the game against the AB's... when O'gara gets blocked down and the ball goes into our touch zone where is dempsey???...answer.. away with the birds.. it was kearney that prevented the try as he was where dempsey should have been.. we saw against the Aussies the last time he more than capable of attacking and you would be pushed to find players with a better left boot than his. Why does he not start at fb?... Ireland dont have any wingers... simple as... unless you feel like bringing usless tripe like trimble back into the squad. If he played FB for leinster who would go on the wing????

twinytwo

Stick_man wrote: »

Lions will bear red claws.

It has been an autumn of discontent for Ian McGeehan and his coaching team to ponder, all the home nations with the exception of Wales failed to fire leaving the lions boss in something of quandary when it comes to a form guide. No test squad, let alone team is selected in December but with only the Heineken cup and the Six nations left as any real barometer of consistency time is already running out for the Lions to assemble a squad to defeat the springbok’s next summer. These autumn tests were the first true indicator with regards to squad selection and three of the four Lions nations did little to quell the view that a South Africa series win seems inevitable. A developing Irish side under the new tutelage of Declan Kidney showed scant attacking promise in their defeat to the All Blacks while a much needed victory over Argentina merited praise only for a committed pack effort. Scotland, despite a spirited showing against South Africa were dismantled by a second string New Zealand and have yet to turn that habitual corner that is mooted every year. England celebrated a facile victory over the Pacific Islanders before submitting an abject performance against Australia, worse followed a week later with their smashing by the springbok’s before their discipline disintegrated against the All Blacks. It was left to the vibrancy of Wales, who with their dedication to attack and keep ball in hand left a glimmer of hope on the Lions horizon.

If McGeehan was compelled to select his test team this morning, the case for a majority Welsh contingent would be overwhelming. It is not merely the slashing swivel of Shane Williams that characterise this Welsh side but rather the intelligence and precision of their off-loading game that has propelled them to the summit of the northern hemisphere. The discovery of Andy Powell as a number eight of serious international ability has been the success story of the autumn while the enduring class of Stephen Jones has given him a shot at retaining the Lions no: 10 he wore in New Zealand. The enduring Martin Williams with the durable Ryan Jones will surely come into any back-row thinking. The Lions full-back position is injury withstanding Lee Byrne’s to lose. Even Gavin Henson conspicuous only by his absence these last few months could come into the reckoning at twelve given the paucity of flair available for that position. Alun Wyn-Jones astonishing tackle count allayed to his powerful athleticism should see him partner Paul O Connell in the second row to challenge the sinewy steel of Matfield and Botha.

The awesome raw physicality of South Africa can only be countered with the Welsh blueprint for attack. Sir Clive Woodward made the cardinal error of going like for like against the All Backs three years ago, sacrificing the likes of Shane Williams for simple physical presence. The Lions cannot smash this beast of a pack but it may negate it by adapting the Welsh design. There may be a long way to go but so far at least it seems the Lions will breathe dragon fire next summer.

Lions twenty-two: 15:L.Byrne 14:S.Williams 13:B.O Driscoll 12:G.Henson 11:R.Kearney 10:S.Jones 9:M.Blair 8:A.Powell 7:D.Wallace 6:R.Jones 5:P.O Connell {c} 4:A.W-Jones 3:M.Stevens 2:R.Ford 1:A.Sheridan

16:G.Jenkins 17:J.Flannery 18:N.Hines 19:M.Williams 20:M.Phillips 21:R.O Gara 22:L.Fitzgearld.

Why is it that everyone seems to think that wales are unreal when they are not..I mean they play one half of decent rugby againstthe AB's but were still beaten by more than Ireland who had a very average outing against the kiwis.. they won what has to be the worst 6N i have witnessed in my life.France,Ireland,Italy,Scotland and England all played crap but yet because wales win they are suddenly good.After the six nations and after spouting how they were going to stick it to the boks they go to SA and got their asses handed to them. They lose to a very poor SA again only being kept in touch thanks to hooks kicking and yet people think that they are the solution to a victorious tour for the lions?

sm.org

Are you for real?? They should/would have beaten SA if they played in the first half and still only lost to an intercept. They were the only team who had any chance against NZ, Ireland would have lost by at least 12 more if Carter had been kicking well and they beat a very good Ozzie team. They cantered through the 6N's last season.

They are a far better team then Ireland and we'd be ****ed next summer without them.

anonymous_joe

Hmmm.

I think it's easy to forget that while the South Africa game was very close, only England were well beaten by South Africa. Scotland nearly beat them, and Wales really fúcked up against them.

For the New Zealand game, yes Wales played better than anyone for the first half, but their second half was as uninspired as ours. We played quite well against the All Blacks in all aspects of the game bar attack. (Yes, I know, that;s half the game, but bare with me) Wales are at the moment the form team in the Northern Hemisphere, and favourites for the 6 Nations, but they're not as far ahead as people are convinced.

sm.org

The most frustrating thing about Wales is they can do a Grand Slam one season and be utter gash the next, despite having the same management and players.

Having said that Gatland is the most professional coach they've ever had (Henry wasn't as good 6yrs ago) so if there's ever a man to keep the level up its him.

Chucky the tree

twinytwo wrote: »

Dempsey is nothing of the sort... as for kearney the only thing he lacks is experience.How many times when he was playing FB has he saved our ass?.. the example i like to give was in the game against the AB's... when O'gara gets blocked down and the ball goes into our touch zone where is dempsey???...answer.. away with the birds.. it was kearney that prevented the try as he was where dempsey should have been.. we saw against the Aussies the last time he more than capable of attacking and you would be pushed to find players with a better left boot than his. Why does he not start at fb?... Ireland dont have any wingers... simple as... unless you feel like bringing usless tripe like trimble back into the squad. If he played FB for leinster who would go on the wing????

I dunno who'd go on the wing for Leinster, dont care either.

What I do know if that Kearney isnt even first choice FB on the Irish team, so the last place he should be is first choice on a Lions team. Dempsey is ahead of him and murphy isnt far behind. He's not a brilliant winger either so I can see him making it there. He'd probaly make the 22 due to his versatility though.

Webbs

twinytwo wrote: »

Why is it that everyone seems to think that wales are unreal when they are not..I mean they play one half of decent rugby againstthe AB's but were still beaten by more than Ireland who had a very average outing against the kiwis.. they won what has to be the worst 6N i have witnessed in my life.France,Ireland,Italy,Scotland and England all played crap but yet because wales win they are suddenly good.After the six nations and after spouting how they were going to stick it to the boks they go to SA and got their asses handed to them. They lose to a very poor SA again only being kept in touch thanks to hooks kicking and yet people think that they are the solution to a victorious tour for the lions?

Henry said that the second half against Wales was the best rugby NZ have played all year!. And Gatland and Jones have consistently said that they need to put 80mins of rugby together (came close agaianst Aus) not just 40mins so they know they can get better.
Do you really believe that if NZ had shown half that form against Ireland that the scorelines would have been the same? Likewise Aus and SA stated it was the hardest games they played in the NH

I agree that it is still unproven from Wales long term, yet what do they need to do? They are grand slam winners (twice in 3years) and the only NH team to beat a tri-nations team.

Ireland have the potential to push Wales close if they can get it together play together with Kidney hopefully changing their style of play and bring in some new blood - but of course at the present time Wales would be a solution to a Lions win, thats not too say come the end of the 6N that view will be turned on its head

twinytwo

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I dunno who'd go on the wing for Leinster, dont care either.

What I do know if that Kearney isnt even first choice FB on the Irish team, so the last place he should be is first choice on a Lions team. Dempsey is ahead of him and murphy isnt far behind. He's not a brilliant winger either so I can see him making it there. He'd probaly make the 22 due to his versatility though.

You seem to be missing the point.. he isnt FB for ireland because with Horgan out who else can they put on the wing?? We have four FB's but no true wingers. He should have a shot at the full back slot because a he is solid under the high ball b can kick c can attack d can defend what else do u need in a fb??

anonymous_joe

twinytwo wrote: »

You seem to be missing the point.. he isnt FB for ireland because with Horgan out who else can they put on the wing?? We have four FB's but no true wingers. He should have a shot at the full back slot because a he is solid under the high ball b can kick c can attack d can defend what else do u need in a fb??

Bang on the money.

Right now, the Ireland management are calling on 3 very good full backs and not a single winger other than Bowe.

Irish wingers are rare to be honest.

dub_skav

Everyone seems to have forgotten Tom Shanklin. I know he hasn't been hitting the greatest heights of form (for him) but he has everything required to take on the Boks.

I believe there is still a bit of a question mark over Kearney defensively as the last line. It's probably from his earlier performances and may now be unwarranted, but it remains - for me anyway

RugbyFanatic

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I dunno who'd go on the wing for Leinster, dont care either.

What I do know if that Kearney isnt even first choice FB on the Irish team, so the last place he should be is first choice on a Lions team. Dempsey is ahead of him and murphy isnt far behind. He's not a brilliant winger either so I can see him making it there. He'd probaly make the 22 due to his versatility though.

BOD made the Irish 15 before making the Leinster 15.

Kearney is played on the wing because there are no other options of his quality in both Leinster AND Ireland in the eyes of the management.

That is not to say he isn't the best full back however.

Kearney should 100% start FB for the Lions