3x11 - "The Eclipse Part Two" **SPOILERS**

hussey

*EDIT - Mods I forgot to tick the box for poll, can you add one?*

First thing I noticed

Noah waited till Slyar got it ownnnn! Perv

Heh I noticed that too

Good episode for once. Why? Cause they actually used some bloody powers.

DirkVoodoo

Okay

So there weren't two episodes broadcast then...not the first time the internet has lied to me...

*Runs away covering eyes as he hasn't seen the episode yet

pyramuid man

Bad

Not bad.
Found it a bit mushy and a bit drawn out. No real pace to it tbh.

Sylar is evil again so the future has changed so it seems. Does this mean that Sylar never gives peter his power now?

Found this a bit surprising.

Baggly

Nice to see they dusted off the 'claires split open chest' prop from season one.

How bad was it with them dangling her death in front of us. I knew she wouldnt, but one must always hope.

Peter hurry up and get your powers back!!!

Bubs101

Okay

What balls. Nathan nails that guy with his flight power when he's standing literally right beside the Haitian. Other than that it was grand

monkeyfudge

Bad

hussey wrote: »

*EDIT - Mods I forgot to tick the box for poll, can you add one?

Will fix it when I've seen it.... Should be in an hour or so...

Overheal has really been letting us down lately.

Jay Ru

From here to brain eatery

****e ep. why did Noah wait so long to take a shot at Sylar and Ele? and to top if off we all just knew that both Slyar and Claire weren't going to change. why isn't daddy Patreli asking the most important question, why did he only lose his for this Eclipse and not any of the others that have taken place in his lifetime. if the eclipse has something to do with powers and how people get them, surely the older generation wud of picked up on this before, even Peter noticed it in the Eclipse pt.1. another thing that annoyed the **** out of me was Maya's reaction to Mohinder not being at the door after he knocked. he tried to kill her and yet she disappointed that he's gone. w.t.f. like? the sooner Hiro gets his memories back the better. Nathan didn't take long to change his mind either, 2 girls almost being sold as sex slaves really has an effect on the god freak. how can he believe that his father cud act responsibly if they where to figure out how to give other folks powers, the guy faked his own death for christ sake. rant over!

J-blk

Bad

Pretty poor again IMO - so what was the whole bloody point of spending two whole episodes on the eclipse, going nowhere again? And surprise! Another "hero" flip-flops again and decides to go over to Pinehearst... And of course as soon as Sylar and Claire "died", I assumed they would come back to life as soon as the eclipse was over, like two minutes later... How many freaking times are they going to dangle the "oh look, a major character dies!" plot device in front of us? Does the "Villains" volume end in one or two episodes from now?

Overheal

Bubs101 wrote: »

What balls. Nathan nails that guy with his flight power when he's standing literally right beside the Haitian. Other than that it was grand

not this again >_<

CodeMonkey

How is Bennett that good an agent when he can't kill 2 ordinary people with a sniper rifle and a pistol? Laser sight on a sniper rifle? Really?

So is Sylar killing cause of his hunger or not? He already got Elle's power here.

Why does Hiro have much better control of his powers when he thinks he is 10?

Why doesn't Nathan think his dad will act like the Haitian's brother and therefore instead of working for daddy, he should stop daddy?

I thought people were reading the latest issues of 9th wonder in season 1 and the heroes had to find Isaac so he can draw what's going to happen next. Where did all these other back issues come from?

How come no one noticed they lost their powers at the last eclipse? And 2 eclipse in 2 years?

Fysh

Another load of toss. A horrendously hokey load of crap based around a comic store, the most inconsistent eclipse in the history of bad television, a level of expository dialogue that approaches the "so bad it's good" boundary in the same way a concorde approaches the speed of sound, plot contrivances and inconsistencies a-plenty and to top it all off, a pointless and inexplicable character reset. Seriously, all it takes is Noah Bennet saying "they're not your parents" and Sylar is convinced? And yet he didn't have any doubts of his own before. I'd say "Idiot Ball" but at this stage everyone in Heroes is making a habit of carrying around their own personal Idiot Planets....

I don't think this episode had anything approaching good bits. The Haitian's combat with his brother wasn't really foreshadowed and thus lacked weight, Nathan's inexplicable change of heart had the stench of manure about it, Claire continues to annoy the world by remaining alive, Noah Bennet is apparently a narcoleptic secret agent (how else to explain him having a clear shot and yet letting elle and Sylar have enough time to get it on in the house before shooting at them?), Mohinder is still not as interesting as Jeff Goldblum was back when his storyline was done in The Fly, Hiro is apparently in the realm of fan-fiction at this point, Peter Petrelli looks in sore need of being chucked off a building by Doctor Who again, Chumpy McChumpface still hasn't died of chronic chumpness much to my chagrin, Daphne's dad is apparently the crappiest farmer ever (Seriously, what kind of crap farmer could get to his daughter's 13th birthday before thinking "gee, maybe a scarecrow would stop those damn birds eatin' all mah crops"?!) and 9th Wonders is apparently enough of a cultural phenomenon to be translated internationally and sell in comic shops everywhere (to the extent that the comic store nerds have their own favourite characters) and yet none of them have ever been recognized before.

Oh, and that Jeph Loeb "Ultimatum" plug when Hiro's buying his comics was a bit pathetic; the least he could've done is buy something not crap, fer crying out loud.

Not seeing anything here that makes me want to carry on into Volume 4, to be honest.

doonothing

From here to brain eatery

Why...

Oh why bother. BLEH!

Nervous Wreck

Good

I liked it. Someone mentioned that they've practically used a "reset button" but that's okay with me. As long as Sylar's evil, I'm mostly sated. Peter needs his powers back but I can see he's already working on his bangs. That's good.

Also, Hiro appearing, grabbing Sylar and simply saying "bad guy" was hilarious. I'm beginning to like him again....

11811

Bad

was a bit meh really....almost pointless this eclipse crack, which incidentally has to be the longest one ever. quite a few d'oh moments alright, especially Natahan flying beside the Haitain, and Noah failing to shoot Sylar and Elle
also gutted that Elle's gone....:(

hussey

Okay

actually the the fudge was that about the comics? no one noticed that there was a load more printed after he died? BS!

Slyar now back to being the bad guy - excellent, hopefully the good guy act was just a phase ... also why didn't elle just Electrical charge his ass like at the start of the series??

Peter - lets hope he gets his mojo back and does real stuff like Bad ass peter in future

Maya ... her character would have been 1000% more interesting if she answered the door in a tight boob tube and hot pants
actually why did she answer ? the guy put her in a nest FFS!!

Claire ... WTF? do they normally cut someone open to revive her?

So can the haitian turn on his powers? I thought it was like a natural 'no-power-zone' or something,

leninbenjamin

Okay

seems like the they are trying to slowly erase the sh*tty character developments of the last two seasons.

the one good thing about the episode though was Hiro's intervention. For the last few seconds it reminded me of everything good about season 1.

At the same time though It's amazing that he has to regress in mental capacity to actually figure out how to use his power effectively in a tight spot. go figure..

Mossy Monk

From here to brain eatery

I am at the point now where I wonder if I will bother continuing with this show. Poor episode again.

Faith

Bad

Didn't think much of it to be honest. Sylar looked hot and was evil, yay. Breckin Meyer and Seth Green were entertaining but pointless (<3 Seth Green though). Matt Parkman písses me off SO MUCH. Why won't Claire die? Why did Noah wait and watch Sylar and Elle have sex before trying to kill them (the big perv)?

In a way, I almost hoped Sylar would stay dead because then I could stop watching the show.

theprodigals0n

I haven't disliked this season as much as others have but I didn't particularly like this one. It had its moments - the Hiro intervention - but overall it was quite poor. Deaths in Heroes really have little effect on the audience now it seems. It was obvious that both would come back to life. I thought the scenes at the comic book store were pretty inane too. I still hold out hope for the final two episodes though.

MikeHoncho

I havent watched it yet. Dont know if im gonna bother.

Tigger

Bubs101 wrote: »

What balls. Nathan nails that guy with his flight power when he's standing literally right beside the Haitian. Other than that it was grand

haitian decides whos powers to rob

The Haitian has also displayed the ability to dampen or completely negate the powers of anyone within a certain distance of himself. Though this aspect of his power seems to be consistently active, the Haitian can allow specific individuals to use their powers in his presence if he wishes. This ability is not supreme, however, as various heroes have overcome it with great effort. The ability only works when he is conscious.

hussey

Okay

Faith wrote: »

Why did Noah wait and watch Sylar and Elle have sex before trying to kill them (the big perv)?

answer:


who wouldn't?

DirkVoodoo

Okay

Yeah the only thing I can glean from that episode is that HRG is a peeping tom, no wonder Claire has issues with him.

I liked bits of it, the comic store scene was kind of good. Sylar is bad now, so basically all his character "undevelopment" this season was just to fill the scripts 40 minute run time.

Faith

Bad

Oh, I forgot to add that most of the dialogue was absolutely appalling too. I cringed through most of it.

el_tiddlero

Good

i thought it was good..

I don't think the show makes any apologies for gaping plot holes or cheesey dialogue - imo it's quite a tongue in cheek show..
the best example being in eclipse pt I with Elle and Sylars' "Don't you just feel..... powerless!!"
that was gas..

the major problem it has is that the demographic it aims at is obsessed with criticising and critiquing everything the writers do, so they can never EVER win..

take another hit US show right now, Gossip Girl: They had a bit in that where a character was introduced, given three or four episodes as a bit part player, and then all of a sudden announced, "I've been lying to you, I'm actually a British Lord."

That was ridiculous, nonsensical, and downright stupid, but you know what, there wasn't 8 million blog and message board posts the next day slating it, because the fans of that show just let the writers get on with it and enjoy the show on its merits.

If people who like comics and superheroes want a regular TV show that features those things then they would be as well to quit their whining about this and that not making sense (thereby putting pressure on writers, causing re-writes and about turns ) and should start supporting the show - because if it fails you can be damn sure that no tv station is going to take a chance on a show like that again for a long time..

I for one can put up with hammy dialogue, crazily convoluted plots, whatever, because when it boils down to it, the action and the kick-ass powers make up for it.

don't you love the circle in the sky when Nathan takes off?
the sick sound that happens when Claire's skin is knitting back together..
The crazy eyebrows from Sylar when he's slicing off someones head..
The playful wonder of Hiro as he pops in and out time..
the cool ice, fire, and lightning effects that have been all over this season?

i say its worth it to have it on tv - or would you rather there be no superhero show for you?

Baggly

All these how's and why's....

After the planet of the apes remake came out, a poll went up online for explanations regarding the ending. The most popular explanation?....

Tim Burton is an idiot

Similar logic can be used for the how's and why's of this show and the.....'writing staff'

CodeMonkey

el_tiddlero wrote: »

take another hit US show right now, Gossip Girl

You watch Gossip Girls and like what Heroes turned into? Hmmm

doonothing

From here to brain eatery

hussey wrote: »

answer:


who wouldn't?

Where did that slip of a woman get those?

hussey

Okay

sugarman wrote: »

...was okay IMO

Just one thing tho, how was Arthur Petrelli not paralyzed since he was powerless with the eclipse?

that was an illness caused by the poison, when he took the healing power of adam he was cured of illness.

So when his powers went, the poison didn't come back - as he was previously cured of it.

JaneyMc

Bad

I thought it was better than part one anyway.

eVeNtInE

From here to brain eatery

This post has been deleted.

11811

Bad

hussey wrote: »

answer:


who wouldn't?

Best post ever.

Mr.Nice Guy

Bad

I found it an improvement on the last two episodes. I do think the dialogue is hokey and that there are major flaws however. The Elle/Sylar romance, the Parkman/Daphne romance, Mohinder's crappy storyline and so on are drawbacks but if they are now deciding that Sylar IS in fact ultimately a villain, then I'll find the show a lot easier to take.

Anyone else find Nathan's desire to want to go to his Dad very hard to accept though? I mean Arthur incapacitated his mother, watched his brother get thrown out of a window and contributed to his wife getting paralyzed and Nathan wants to join him? Bullsh*t tbh.

It was alright to me from an entertainment point of view, but the show continues to disappoint from a logical point of view.

el_tiddlero

Good

CodeMonkey wrote: »

You watch Gossip Girls and like what Heroes turned into? Hmmm

By the tone of most of the posts here, you'd all be better off watching Gossip Girl: you'd have less to give out about.....

JaboHabo

ok so it's gone pear shaped but it'll be grand.

...

but...
When Angela Patrelli first revealed she was Sylar's Mommy she then gave him a little snack, some sexy Asian chick who had the ability to learn all about someone and their history just by touching them.
Sylar has touched Arthur, Angelia, HRG and presumably himself since. Nothing should come as a surprise. He should know everything.

But at least he killed Elle. And I wonder who his future kid is tho? And does this future that the 'Goody Crew' witnessed still exist? Including the Hiro and Ando showdown? Didn't realise it would be such a long term story line.

It really is a terrible mess.

Fysh

el_tiddlero wrote: »

By the tone of most of the posts here, you'd all be better off watching Gossip Girl: you'd have less to give out about.....

I get the feeling the disparity of opinions on the show is related to different expectations and demands.

Your earlier post seemed to suggest that if Heroes failed, no networks would want to run a superhero-themed drama targeted at an adult audience. Thus, in the interests of continuining to have a superhero-genre TV program you want to continue supporting the show and are happy to ignore what flaws the show has.

(Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I interpreted what you said).

My perspective is different. While I enjoy superhero stories, I value storytelling over genre to the extent that I'd prefer to abandon a mediocre or bad show rather than watch it because it's all that's available.

I do think that Heroes in the first series had a lot of promise, and I think the show has lost its way in subsequent series by trying to keep an established cast at the centre of the show despite having nothing compelling for them to do. The character arcs in the first season were well-paced and consistent, and reached logical conclusions; the character development work since has been very obviously engineered to suit the plot, but without the subtlety to have the plot flow naturally.

I understand the reasons why this happens in a medium like serialised television, but that doesn't mean I'll lower my expectations. Comparing Heroes to the likes of Babylon 5 (in the context of Tim Kring's early statements about having planned out 5 volumes of the show) all I can say is either network interference screwed the pooch so completely that the show is nothing like Kring's original vision, or Kring's planning was lacking in scope and depth.

Regarding Heroes vs Gossip Girl, I suspect that the difference is down to a fundamental genre distinction - I've never watched GG and don't intend to but as far as I know it's a soap-opera/drama show. Heroes is a fantasy/soap-opera/drama show, which means that the validity of the fantasy aspects are directly related to how grounded and realistic the other aspects of the show are. Series one worked because despite the ridiculous nature of some of the abilities being developed, they were grounded in solid (if unexceptional) character development. Since then the characters have behaved in erratic and inconsistent ways to serve the needs of a plot whose main purpose is to provide cliffhangers for the end of each episode without any sense of a greater overall story. For serialised entertainment, that's not necessarily a problem - but as has happened with Lost and Battlestar Galactica before now, a lot of the audience these shows accumulate want to be told a big story with beginning middle and end. When those shows deviate too much from that structure and start to tread water, people lose interest.

doonothing

From here to brain eatery

Am I imagining this, or was heroes given a 5 season lifespan not so long ago, and we rejoiced at the writer's clarity of vision? I honestly could be imagining that by the way... Or mixing it up with another show.. But If it was heroes, it reeeeeally doesn't feel like they've ANY sort of coherent plot outline planned.

Then again, lost series 3 was ****e too

Then again, lost series 2 and three were not this bad. Sigh

el_tiddlero

Good

Fysh wrote: »

I get the feeling the disparity of opinions on the show is related to different expectations and demands

Your earlier post seemed to suggest that if Heroes failed, no networks would want to run a superhero-themed drama targeted at an adult audience. Thus, in the interests of continuining to have a superhero-genre TV program you want to continue supporting the show and are happy to ignore what flaws the show has.

(Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I interpreted what you said)...

Yep that's pretty much it - My main problem is that you find so much over-zealous attention to detail bandied around, and in most cases it is just superfluous to actually enjoying the show.
Does it really matter if the eclipse caused powers to fail when it caused them occur previously - does the fact that the characters don't understand what's going on not mitigate against that? Ok, so there's no dramatic irony, but i think only allowing the audience to know what the characters know is a valid form of presentation.
I think Heroes is a superior superhero show to what we have seen before (smallville, mutant x etc) and it is easily the best funded one we have seen thus far. If it doesn't make it to the end of it's run, then we may not see one again - at least not one with as big a budget.
If you were to take Heroes as being a first, good effort at presenting a serialised superhero show, then maybe you would see it in a different light. I see it as an important show because of what it could spawn, as well as being good entertainment in its own right..

Fysh wrote: »

My perspective is different. While I enjoy superhero stories, I value storytelling over genre to the extent that I'd prefer to abandon a mediocre or bad show rather than watch it because it's all that's available.

I do think that Heroes in the first series had a lot of promise, and I think the show has lost its way in subsequent series by trying to keep an established cast at the centre of the show despite having nothing compelling for them to do. The character arcs in the first season were well-paced and consistent, and reached logical conclusions; the character development work since has been very obviously engineered to suit the plot, but without the subtlety to have the plot flow naturally.

I understand the reasons why this happens in a medium like serialised television, but that doesn't mean I'll lower my expectations. Comparing Heroes to the likes of Babylon 5 (in the context of Tim Kring's early statements about having planned out 5 volumes of the show) all I can say is either network interference screwed the pooch so completely that the show is nothing like Kring's original vision, or Kring's planning was lacking in scope and depth.

I think to be fair to them they did have mitigating circumstances i.e. the writers strike. That really did bone them last year. I mean, here we are almost 3 years from when the first season captured our imagination, and yet, we're only just beginning to see any progression. I can totally understand frustration and outright dislike of how things are going with the show, but still, I enjoy watching it, I like most of the characters, the effects look great, and no matter how much you might dislike what they're doing now, the show still has bags and bags of potential.

I'd be interested to hear if there's anything that they can do in the last couple of episodes before the volume/christmas break to change your mind - would large-scale character culling do it?
an epic twist that blows the lid of the Heroes' existence and gives them a real enemy?

Fysh wrote: »

Regarding Heroes vs Gossip Girl, I suspect that the difference is down to a fundamental genre distinction - I've never watched GG and don't intend to but as far as I know it's a soap-opera/drama show. Heroes is a fantasy/soap-opera/drama show, which means that the validity of the fantasy aspects are directly related to how grounded and realistic the other aspects of the show are. Series one worked because despite the ridiculous nature of some of the abilities being developed, they were grounded in solid (if unexceptional) character development. Since then the characters have behaved in erratic and inconsistent ways to serve the needs of a plot whose main purpose is to provide cliffhangers for the end of each episode without any sense of a greater overall story. For serialised entertainment, that's not necessarily a problem - but as has happened with Lost and Battlestar Galactica before now, a lot of the audience these shows accumulate want to be told a big story with beginning middle and end. When those shows deviate too much from that structure and start to tread water, people lose interest

I brought up Gossip Girl as an example of a show where the writers are trusted by their audience to the extent that everyone knows something ridiculous and nonsensical is going to happen, but they like it anyway. You don't see forum posts and blogs about how this or that couldn't possibly happen, or how this guy and that girl would never get together. People like the genre, the style, and some characters (no matter what show, there's always 1 or 2 you won't like) and are happy for the story to go where it will - I don't think Heroes would ever be afforded that lattitude from it's audience.

It seems to me from reading about and discussing Heroes in real life and over on the 9th wonders boards that there's this subset of Heroes-watchers that all think they could do a better job of making it, or writing it, or that they have some divine right to tell the people making the show what they're doing wrong - ok feedback is important for any creator, but the level of vitriol and anger in some of the things you see, and it's every week, I just don't think that's helpful, or even necessary.

I think all I was saying was that the same people that spend all their time giving out about this show now will miss it when it's gone and replaced by something REALLY terrible (like oh, Fringe for example, or The Mentalist...)..

Fysh

el_tiddlero wrote: »

Yep that's pretty much it - My main problem is that you find so much over-zealous attention to detail bandied around, and in most cases it is just superfluous to actually enjoying the show.
Does it really matter if the eclipse caused powers to fail when it caused them occur previously - does the fact that the characters don't understand what's going on not mitigate against that? Ok, so there's no dramatic irony, but i think only allowing the audience to know what the characters know is a valid form of presentation.
I think Heroes is a superior superhero show to what we have seen before (smallville, mutant x etc) and it is easily the best funded one we have seen thus far. If it doesn't make it to the end of it's run, then we may not see one again - at least not one with as big a budget.
If you were to take Heroes as being a first, good effort at presenting a serialised superhero show, then maybe you would see it in a different light. I see it as an important show because of what it could spawn, as well as being good entertainment in its own right...

I can see where you're coming from. I have to admit I don't watch Smallville as it always appeared to be Dawson's Creek (with superpowers!) which doesn't appeal to me, and that would be the only succesful series I can think of that was explicitly built around superhero characters. It is impressive that Heroes managed to do so well with a brand new set of characters in its first series, and hopefully come series four the writers will be able to build on that.

el_tiddlero wrote: »

I think to be fair to them they did have mitigating circumstances i.e. the writers strike. That really did bone them last year. I mean, here we are almost 3 years from when the first season captured our imagination, and yet, we're only just beginning to see any progression. I can totally understand frustration and outright dislike of how things are going with the show, but still, I enjoy watching it, I like most of the characters, the effects look great, and no matter how much you might dislike what they're doing now, the show still has bags and bags of potential.

Yeah, the writing strike was a real shame - having read about the plans for the end of volume 2 it sounds like they would have actually gone in a much more interesting direction had time constraints allowed. I was very disappointed in the start of series two but they did manage to get more or less back on track by the second half. Personally I'm going to blame this on the writing influence of Jeph Loeb, given that his comics work has in various cases suffered from the same flaws and there's been mention of a conflict of vision regarding his dismissal from the show.

As for the characters, the changes made in series three have felt forced and unnatural enough to me that I've got scant patience for any of them at this point, though a few decent episodes might undo that.

el_tiddlero wrote: »

I'd be interested to hear if there's anything that they can do in the last couple of episodes before the volume/christmas break to change your mind - would large-scale character culling do it?
an epic twist that blows the lid of the Heroes' existence and gives them a real enemy?

I'm sticking out until the end of volume 3 to see what happens and where they plan to go, as I think there are reasons to be hopeful. Bryan Fuller is returning for series 4, which is a good sign (as is, in my opinion, the departure of Jeph Loeb).

I would like to see either a character cull or a development which gives each character a clear and consistent direction and motivation. I understand the reasons why this can be hard, but if the writers are struggling to find reasons to have Peter, Claire, Hiro et al on the screen every episode, maybe they should cut back on their roles within the show. It's something that they have tried to do fairly clumsily in series 2 and 3, and while I am critical of how they have done it I do think it's good that they do so. (Hopefully they will continue to introduce new characters but in ways that dovetail into the main storyline better and don't feel so clunky).

One very specific hope is that Matt "Chumpy McChumpface" Parkman dies a horrible and graphic death that is beyond any and all hope of resurrection. If ever there was a character devoid of any interesting attributes, it's him. He only seems to have been in the last two series because the plot occasionally required or benefited from having a psychic character. He doesn't really bring anything to the table.

el_tiddlero wrote: »

I brought up Gossip Girl as an example of a show where the writers are trusted by their audience to the extent that everyone knows something ridiculous and nonsensical is going to happen, but they like it anyway. You don't see forum posts and blogs about how this or that couldn't possibly happen, or how this guy and that girl would never get together. People like the genre, the style, and some characters (no matter what show, there's always 1 or 2 you won't like) and are happy for the story to go where it will - I don't think Heroes would ever be afforded that lattitude from it's audience.

It seems to me from reading about and discussing Heroes in real life and over on the 9th wonders boards that there's this subset of Heroes-watchers that all think they could do a better job of making it, or writing it, or that they have some divine right to tell the people making the show what they're doing wrong - ok feedback is important for any creator, but the level of vitriol and anger in some of the things you see, and it's every week, I just don't think that's helpful, or even necessary.

I think all I was saying was that the same people that spend all their time giving out about this show now will miss it when it's gone and replaced by something REALLY terrible (like oh, Fringe for example, or The Mentalist...)..

There's a similar phenomenon in comics fandom (and it's quite possibly the same people in both cases). I think part of it comes from not understanding the whole "commercial art" aspect of most if not all mass entertainment, and part of it from a weird and excessive level of emotional investment in either a particular character or a storytelling world overall. (If you want an entertaining example, go and look up the discussions about Marvel's "Civil War" event from a couple of years back, specifically those about Tony Stark/Iron Man's actions...interesting and hilarious or scary, depending on how you look at them).

At the same time it's not easy to distinguish valid criticism from fannish ranting (I was going to phrase that as "fanny venting" but thought better of it ).

There are definitely valid criticisms to be made of series 2 and 3 of Heroes, moreso series 3 in my opinion due to the impact of the Writer's Strike on series 2. Things like the baffling and irrational character actions (several of which are patently dictated by plot requirements rather than previous development of the character - for example, Nathan siding with Arthur after taking out the Haitian's brother, is clearly not something that makes any sense given Nathan's history with his father but is required so that the writers can have a "brother vs brother" showdown:rolleyes:), the repeated instances of Idiot Ball, the horrendous level of plot inconsistency (the changing ways in which time travel is used, for example), the clumsy revisions of stories they had already told in series one, or the kind of dialogue wherein people refer to themselves as "heroes" or "villains" with a straight face. (It's the kind of thing that reads as pathetic when written on the page in a comic, so hearing someone saying it out loud is just awful. It's like you can actually hear the desperate cry for acceptance from the dialogue writer in the voice of the character...)

These are all writing problems; hopefully the change-up in the writing cast will help with this, but for a show that had managed to have reasonably consistent character behaviour and avoid having too many major plot holes in its first series to degenerate into a celebration of plot holes and characterisation that depends on that week's plot is a both a shame and something that its creators deserve to be roundly criticised for.

Having said all that, a common problem with comics fandom is the tendency to keep watching/buying/following a series for months or years while decrying it to be a load of crap. The main reason I'm considering dropping the show at the end of Volume 3 is that I've hit this point, and I don't want to be that guy who complains about everything rather than just find something else to watch/read that he actually enjoys...

el_tiddlero

Good

^^^

well I think we've just about set the world to rights there..

I'd hate to see Heroes destroyed by bad writing, but I'd also hate to see it destroyed under the weight of it's own fans' expectations.

I counsel patience and optimism, here's hoping for a kick-ass end to this volume and an even better next one..

CodeMonkey

el_tiddlero wrote: »

I'd hate to see Heroes destroyed by bad writing, but I'd also hate to see it destroyed under the weight of it's own fans' expectations.

Or maybe it's so bad now because the writers were trying to satisfy the fans expectations of keeping the popular characters on screen as much as possible with bad writing. I remember everyone loving Clare, Hiro etc in season 1.

I counsel patience and optimism, here's hoping for a kick-ass end to this volume and an even better next one..

That's how I felt during season 2 but they had a legitimate excuse. Season 3 really didn't deliver so I have more fun ranting about it than watching it while under the false hope that it'll get better.

cautioner

Okay

OK, was there any reason whatsoever that Sylar killed Elle? Fair enough if he wants to be a bad guy, but she'd probably have made a tidy little evil sidekick...

lostexpectation

From here to brain eatery

why coud none of them concieve that they'd get their powers back after the eclipse

Mantel

cautioner wrote: »

OK, was there any reason whatsoever that Sylar killed Elle? Fair enough if he wants to be a bad guy, but she'd probably have made a tidy little evil sidekick...

She was annoying at the start and then seemed to develop and provide some reason to enjoy watching her acting! She had to be taken out of the loop to make Sylar be bitchn' bad ass again.

unreggd

Okay

Also, how come she didnt go all shocky [eben though Sylar woulda been immune]

and why did he cut her head? cudda had some fun, bleedin pansy

The whole "not bein able to kill an evil family member" jazz is a loada ****!

kaiser soza

I think he took he memories rather than her powers to see if what HRG said was true.

Sherifu

Okay

It was ok. Noah waiting to kill them was a bit convenient...

A bit pointless killing Sylar and Claire since it was obvious they wouldn't stay dead. *sigh*

Full_Circle

lostexpectation wrote: »

why coud none of them concieve that they'd get their powers back after the eclipse

Because that would be a logical and rational line of thought.........and this is Heroes we are talking about, right? :pac:

As some people have already mentioned here, I found it quite odd that Hiro seemed to be more in control of his powers now, when hes effectively 10. Normally he needs Ando to tell him when to freeze time or teleport.

el_tiddlero wrote: »

I think all I was saying was that the same people that spend all their time giving out about this show now will miss it when it's gone and replaced by something REALLY terrible (like oh, Fringe for example, or The Mentalist...)..

Despite its admittedly hokey storylines, Fringe is starting to grow on me and the characters so far have been quite consistent, whereas all the characters in Heroes seem to change on a weekly basis (sometimes they even change completely within the one episode!).
For example: Nathan switching sides once again........how on earth can he justify that? It makes absolutely no sense at all. Its like someone keeps banging each character over the head every episode to reset their personality and/or motivations. Honestly, its quite infuriating :mad:

And the six episodes of The Mentalist I've watched so far have been more enjoyable than any episode of Heroes this or last season. I just sit back and enjoy it. It doesn't hurt my head with painful writing or piss poor plotting.

Derek Coleman

Just going back to earlier -
That is the second time Nathan has used his powers around the Hathian. He flew away from him and HRG in season 1. And if they want to say that the Hathian can turn on and off his powers then how come Hiro lost his powers when the Hathian didnt even know he was around. Maybe its because the Hathian was being cautious and blocking powers at that time but its a very stupid mistake to make twice from the writers.

Its like the makers of the show can't even remember what they've wrote. Is there a real life Hathian trying to erase their memory of ever writing such bollox.

Fysh

Derek Coleman wrote: »

Its like the makers of the show can't even remember what they've wrote. Is there a real life Hathian trying to erase their memory of ever writing such bollox.

Funnily enough, I bumped into one of the writers for the show in the pub the other night* and confronted him about this, and here's what he had to say about it:

"No, see the thing is, that wasn't the real story. All those things that don't actually make sense now? That was just what it looked like the first time around.

(Even though we didn't know that at the time).

By now you're just starting to understand what's really going on. This is what we've had planned all along, and you're starting to see the bigger picture.

(Even though we didn't know that at the time either).

By the end of, uh, whichever volume of the story it is we're in the middle of right now, you'll have the full story and a proper explanation for everything.

(We hope).

It'll all fit together and make complete sense.

(Until we decide to change it again next time).

But rest assured! We do have a full story planned with an end-point in sight.

(We just don't know what it is yet or how long it will take to tell)."

*=Clearly I didn't meet a writer from the show in a pub the other night, since I'm on the wrong side of the planet. But since the Heroes writing staff don't let things like facts, consistency or common sense get in the way of their narrative efforts, I figured I should follow suit...