Police driving

metman

To pick up on issues raised on the 'green lights' thread;

The standard of police driver training (be they Gardai, PSNI, Police), is it sufficient?

Is enough money spent on driver training, i.e are there enough places at driving school to get people trained up quickly or are forces left in the situation where people are driving on Chiefs, or as happens here, doing unauthorised blats (blues and twos shouts) because the backlog for driving courses is so long. Do we need quicker access to driver training? Could it be incorporated in basic training?

What do members of the public think about police driving standards? Are the cops good drivers?

Also, should the police get involved in car chases, known in the police as pursuits? Is it worth the risk to the public?

This is the place to discuss/complain/raise questions about anything related to police driving.

ScubaDave

Firstly, once i person has a licence in the job, they can get chiefs (once the chief consents). They can then blue it to calls if they feel the situation requires it. I remember being in a car on a blue light run with a girl who had only passed her driving test 2 months previous! Its a joke!

A cop should receive driver training before graduation! Thats my strong feelin on it! PSNI have the right idea!

the locust

I think most drivers are on Chiefs, which personally i think is insane (im embarrassed going out with one of our drivers sometimes!!). I think there is a major lack of courses available, and i know half of the chiefs drivers wouldn't pass the course. I think this area comes down to trainin and funding.

I certainly think basic driver training could be built into a package in Templemore for Gardai. I was recently over with the RCMP in Canada at thier training Depot and all new 'cadets' do a basic course - no SAS maneouvers or anything but just a basic police drivers course in focusing on defensive skills, eliminating bad habits and polish good habits and what to look out for - anticipation and reading traffic etc... but for the guards again we're talking money and in the current 'economic climate' as everyone keeps saying i doubt we'd see anything like this in years to come. Although there is a decent police drivers 'course' along with a few other specialist stuff being built a few k outside templemore for the driving school so watch this space!

eroo

As a member of public, I have yet to see any dodgy driving by Gardai. But I do find myself thinking that the vast majority of patrol cars that pass me on blues and twos are being driven by Gardai who depend on driving skills they learned in their personal life. Just because they are Gardai, doesn't they have good driving skills. So, at least if EVERY Garda was trained up in 'police driving', they could, as someone already said, get rid of bad driving habits.

As someone who hopes to become a Garda, I think it would be great for every Garda passing out of Templemore to be fully trained in 'police driving'.

my 2c

AlekSmart

Absolutely,Totally and Unequivocally No Member of a Police Force should assume fully operational status without a basic Advanced Driving Course.

This entire business of "Chief`s" or "Super`s" consent is serving only to tarnish the reputation of the entire force(s).

We have been living in a mechanized society now for over a century and it`s high time the dickensian minded Civil Service were forced to recognize that the era of the piebald mare and the bicycle clip allowance is gone.....for good !

The concept of further and higher driving courses surely can be seen to dovetail with the esence of good policing.
The qualities required to drive ANY motor-vehicle in a defensive and controlled manner can and most certainly will be equally useful to any Police Officer in pursuance of the other aspects of their duties.

I cannot think of another mainstream European country where the benefits of Advanced Driving Courses would be greater than here in Ireland.

Put at its simplest,our general standards of Driver behaviour are verging on the lunatic.

Quite often even the most basic elements of control,courtesty and comprehension appear to be totally disregarded in the race to appear as uncivilized as possible and to inflict as much damage as possible to anybody who might present a threat to get in front of you.

The only way to impress the need for higher standards of Driving is for those tasked with enforcing Driving Law to be trained to the very highest standards themselves.

Whatever it may cost the Department of Justice to impliment such a standards based training scheme would be money WELL spent.

Airport

Unlike the Gardai all APS members under go intruction in police driving aswell as defensive driving training and some instuctors have under gone the Advanced Pursuit Driving Course with mainland UK police force. I think it was either Staffordshire or Strathclyde.

Some people may be unaware but if a crime is commmited in the Airport or its immediate environs the APS can persue the suspect/s outside of the Airport, as has happened plenty of times.

metman

Its not that different in the UK tbh. Driving courses are always sought after and the length of time involved in getting one differs from force to force. Basic drivers here are allowed to use emergency equipment on the vehicles to stop other road users, but are not allowed to get involved in pursuits or response jobs. This isn't always the case....

The flip side here is that advanced courses are available to divisional officers in the Met (not so in the Counties) and this is, in itself, an enticement to keep experienced officers on division; being an Area Car driver in the Met is a sought after role.

The other main difference of course is the bolt-on courses for advanced drivers. Our traffic and other advanced units (ANPR Intercept) have additional skills such as TPAC etc

Regardless of the above, I think a 2 week response driving course should be tacked onto basic training here, as well as a Level 2 public order course (though we can't do this as the fitness standard for level 2 is higher than basic entrant blah blah blah rubbish).

TheNog

There is or at least was a new training centre being built outisde of Templemore which would have included a new Tactics Town, driving school and others but the last I heard about 2-3 weeks ago that it has been put on hold cos the Office of Public Works has no money to build it. The cost is supposedly in the €4-5 million bracket. When I was down in The Farm there was 18 new instructors being trained for the driving school.

My 2c. Driver training should be incorporated into training but tbh this would have been impossible with the high recruitment rates we have seen in the last few years. Now that recruitment is down to 400 annually it could be do-able. The PSNI do have it right.

Airport

As i mentioned they recieved the training in the uk. This means that could use it in on going modernation of the Airport Police Service.

I agree with The Nog on vehicle gallery thread, and so am not about to get into a "my surefire is bigger then yours surefire competitions or the like" and anyways i respect the fact you know your stuff in your Area.

Im new here on this site anyways so i'll follow the orders :pac:

eroo

Airport wrote: »

Im new here on this site anyways so i'll follow the orders :pac:

Welcome by the ways!:)

Airport

Thanks eroo!

brayblue24

AlekSmart wrote: »

Absolutely,Totally and Unequivocally No Member of a Police Force should assume fully operational status without a basic Advanced Driving Course.

Couldn't agree more. This is a bugbear of mine and I've brought it up here several times before. Unfortunately the authorities know members want to drive and are prepared to do so on the Chief's so while that is the status quo it won't change!

So in short, metman, no, in this country at least police driving leaves a lot to be desired but most members would snap your hand off in the morning for a course. They just can't be had.

Random

You should not be allowed to drive "emergency like" with only a normal driving license behind you. You should have some sort of specialist course imo.

"emergency like" - what do I mean by this? Well, any ould fool can drive through traffic with blue lights blaring .. but only experienced or trained people can drive through heavy traffic, breaking lights, changing lanes randomly, etc, etc on blue lights safely.

metman

Random, thoroughly agree with ya. Prior to my driver training I'd done some driving in the army and the usual on civvie street, but driving under response condititions (be it urban or rural) presents particular challenges that training will help you tackle.

Any idjit can drive a car with blue lights and sirens at speed, but the trick is doing it safely whilst making progress. Its not about fast driving, its about safe progressive driving.

Pursuits are something that should not be tackled, under any circumstances, by untrained drivers. Here we're very strict on our pursuit policy; the other day I was driving into work, had my radio on and heard a specialist solo (bike unit) put up a fail to stop, on account of the circumstances surrounding the pursuit, the duty inspector at IR immediately terminated the pursuit. End of.

If the head sheds dont like the look of it, then its end-ex.

brayblue24

metman wrote: »

Random, thoroughly agree with ya. Prior to my driver training I'd done some driving in the army and the usual on civvie street, but driving under response condititions (be it urban or rural) presents particular challenges that training will help you tackle.

Any idjit can drive a car with blue lights and sirens at speed, but the trick is doing it safely whilst making progress. Its not about fast driving, its about safe progressive driving.

Pursuits are something that should not be tackled, under any circumstances, by untrained drivers. Here we're very strict on our pursuit policy; the other day I was driving into work, had my radio on and heard a specialist solo (bike unit) put up a fail to stop, on account of the circumstances surrounding the pursuit, the duty inspector at IR immediately terminated the pursuit. End of.

If the head sheds dont like the look of it, then its end-ex.

+1

One viewing of "The Liver Run" (Police, Camera, Action) shows the value of proper police driver training. Progressive driving through busy city streets without panic. Perfick.

Eru

Airport wrote: »

Some people may be unaware but if a crime is commmited in the Airport or its immediate environs the APS can persue the suspect/s outside of the Airport, as has happened plenty of times.

Emmm, all crime regardless of where commited is in the hands of AGS and airport are only authorised to go within 5 miles of the airport when its in the interests of airport security. In Dublin that would cover the radar thats just outside the airport fencing and surrounding roads. You are indeed authorised to take action but your also obligated to contact AGS and hand over any prisoners being held as you have no authority to prosecute criminal cases. Im Shannon all prisoners are Garda prisoners.

Your powers are primarily based on the Air navigation Act which only covers the aerodrome and its grounds so your slightly off with that statement. I also wouldnt fancy being the driver in the event of a crash outside the airport.

Onwards however, as a Garda thats had a crash while driving on Chiefs I can say here and now, DONT APPLY FOR CHIEFS. They will run you ragged and then hang you out to dry when GSOC comes knocking all because the government is getting away without supplying adequate facilities and training.

Chiefs is us doing them a favour and taking all the risks and blame thats attached to driving a patrol car while they sit back laughing.

AlekSmart

Onwards however, as a Garda thats had a crash while driving on Chiefs I can say here and now, DONT APPLY FOR CHIEFS. They will run you ragged and then hang you out to dry when GSOC comes knocking all because the government is getting away without supplying adequate facilities and training.

Chiefs is us doing them a favour and taking all the risks and blame thats attached to driving a patrol car while they sit back laughing.

Top Stuff Karlito.

This scenario yet again shows how the Civil Service mentality can conflict on the most basic level with Operational Necessity.

Every single member of the Gardai who is driving on-duty could in an instant be required to drive their vehicle to the absolute limits of both human and vehicular performance.

For cryin out loud,thats why they are regarded as an EMERGENCY service !

If some anonymous temporary assistant principle deputy secretary in Justice cannot see the need to fully endorse best-practice in relation to Garda Driving then they need to be made forcefully aware of it.

The pay-back from this cannot be identified in terms of € and c but it will in relatively short order be obvious in many different ways from fewer accidents to a far better level of regard from the general driving public.

eroo

I'd love to see the figures for the amount of Garda cars damaged/written off in the last few years.

dingding

Know at least 3 occasions over the past couple of years where I was forced onto the hard shoulder by Garda cars overtaking a long line of cars and I was comming the other way.

I think some Gardai probably go after someone speeding with excessive Gusto. In none of the above examples were the sirens / lights on.

I think that this is the symptom of inadequate training.

Another example of this sort of thing.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/garda-car-death-was-an-accident-waiting-to-happen-109974.html

I don't think anyone should drive an emergency vehicle without propper training,

timmywex

Everyone should get themselves a copy of roadcraft, and read it through, advanced course done or not, some great stuff in it!

This book imo is a goldmine of info!

View Profile

Would I be right in saying that the Garda motorcycle unit are the only professionally trained drivers/riders?

They seem to have a high standard of driving ability. Is it the RoSPA course or something they do?

deadwood

eroo wrote: »

I'd love to see the figures for the amount of Garda cars damaged/written off in the last few years.

No you wouldn't!:eek:

brayblue24

city4life wrote: »

oh, official driver in bother. again a problem with chiefs, may not have a clue about cars themselves. that said, look at the state of patrol cars all over the country. ours i must say are fairly well looked after. if i jave time i wash it everyday, and the crowd in the ford garage think i'm an awful driver cause i'm forever getting new hub caps off them!!!

may as well look the part, dirty cars, covered in dents and missing hub caps does not look professional....and as it happens those on chiefs never clean it and leave it full of rubbish

i'm childish and anal about appearences so the rubbish gets lumped into their lockers....they will evetually learn. but again the official drivers know to look fater the car,,,,by even doing the basic things

No, mountain bikes too

brayblue24

View Profile wrote: »

Would I be right in saying that the Garda motorcycle unit are the only professionally trained drivers/riders?

They seem to have a high standard of driving ability. Is it the RoSPA course or something they do?

No, mountain bikes too

(Ignore the last post)

UpstateEMS

Long time reader, first time poster. I'd like to bring a North American perspective to this issue, and some other emergency service driving pet peeves that I have noticed since moving to Ireland.

It absolutely boggles my mind how Gardaí can graduate from Templemore and be turned out to complete their duties with seemingly essential skills of policing missing. Granted, the policing strategy is less reliant on automobiles with a larger emphasis placed on "walking-the-beat" and community policing here in Ireland; however, the ability to safely operate an emergency vehicle seems to be a fairly core skill which every member should have.

From where I originate in the States, to the best of my knowledge, all police officers regardless of affiliation must complete a course and subsequently demonstrate a basic level of proficiency in evasive driving in order to successfully complete the police academy. Now, in an effort at full disclosure, many still must return to the academy following graduation for specialized classes such as radar/laser speed enforcement, breathalyzer use, accident reconstruction, etc.

As you can likely guess from my handle, I hail from the EMS side of the emergency services where I started as a volunteer during my college days. Even as a volunteer, before I could pull the ambulance out of the station, I had to complete an "EVOC" course - Emergency Vehicle Operators Course. This course ran over 2 weekends, if I remember correctly, with both classroom instructions as well as behind the wheel training in the vehicle you would most likely be operating in an emergency situation. What made this all work was that this class was provided by the government at no charge to the service or driver and it was required by the underwriting insurance company in order to maintain coverage. As with most "mandatory" classes, there needs to be some fairly strong incentive to get people there during their own free time.

Some things that I would like to see changed over here:
1. Require and enforce that drivers pull over to the left and yield to all emergency vehicles when operating their blue lights.

2. Get emergency vehicles out of the Bus Lanes.
How many times have you seen an emergency vehicle race up a bus lane, only to reach a junction where they are blocked in by traffic in the bus lane waiting to turn left and stopped traffic in the main travel lane? If individuals were conditioned to pull to the left it would open the main travel lane while also giving the emergency service vehicle the ability to travel contraflow as required in heavy traffic.

3. Emergency service vehicles have no business being operated on footpaths unless the incident is occurring on the footpath or they are in pursuit. In fact, no vehicle belongs on the footpath!

4. On motorways - if the Gardaí are making a traffic stop, or for that matter any vehicle is on the hard shoulder, motorists should reduce their speed and move into the right hand lane to provide some additional safety for the officer and stopped motorist. After a series of fatal accidents in the States, this law is rolling out with heavy fines and penalty points for individuals who fail to "move over and slow down".

Ok, sorry for the digressions from the topic at hand!

Stay safe everyone!

metman

UpstateEMS wrote: »

Some things that I would like to see changed over here:
1. Require and enforce that drivers pull over to the left and yield to all emergency vehicles when operating their blue lights.

Welcome to the forum! You raise some interesting and valid points. In particular I wholeheartedly agree with your point re yielding to emergency vehicles. I remember having this conversation whilst on a response call (on blues and twos) with my oppo and commenting that we should have an offence of failing to yield to an emergency vehicle as they have in the US....the subject came about, as you can guess, on account of the complete ambivalence/ignorance of some motorists as to the fact that a big shiny police car with flashing lights and sirens was trying to make progress through traffic, indeed it seems that some persons simply refuse to move, out of spite. Incredibly frustrating. It should, at minimum, be a fine-worthy offence.

ScubaDave

Karlitosway1978 - if you have ever worked in a rural station, u will know that getting chiefs is the only thing that can keep junior men sane!

TheNog

ScubaDave wrote: »

Karlitosway1978 - if you have ever worked in a rural station, u will know that getting chiefs is the only thing that can keep junior men sane!

+1 to that.

I quickly found out that driving is absolutely essential in the country stations. Mnay of my investigations were seriously hampered while I couldn't drive but now all is good. I do however agree that all drivers should at least have the basic driving corse done before getting behind the wheel.

The_Conductor

Having been forced off the road in the Phoenix Park- by an unmarked car going around a roundabout (at the zoo) in the wrong direction at high speed, without any lights or siren- I would have to say that I for one would wholeheartedly support any proposals to require Gardai and other emergency personnel complete an advanced driving course prior to being allowed control an emergency vehicle.

ScubaDave

smccarrick wrote: »

Having been forced off the road in the Phoenix Park- by an unmarked car going around a roundabout (at the zoo) in the wrong direction at high speed, without any lights or siren- I would have to say that I for one would wholeheartedly support any proposals to require Gardai and other emergency personnel complete an advanced driving course prior to being allowed control an emergency vehicle.

Strong chance that they could have had the course done!

andrewh5

timmywex wrote: »

Everyone should get themselves a copy of roadcraft, and read it through, advanced course done or not, some great stuff in it!

This book imo is a goldmine of info!

Absolutely agree. A brilliant book.

andrewh5

metman wrote: »

Welcome to the forum! You raise some interesting and valid points. In particular I wholeheartedly agree with your point re yielding to emergency vehicles. I remember having this conversation whilst on a response call (on blues and twos) with my oppo and commenting that we should have an offence of failing to yield to an emergency vehicle as they have in the US....the subject came about, as you can guess, on account of the complete ambivalence/ignorance of some motorists as to the fact that a big shiny police car with flashing lights and sirens was trying to make progress through traffic, indeed it seems that some persons simply refuse to move, out of spite. Incredibly frustrating. It should, at minimum, be a fine-worthy offence.

I agree. The biggest problems thoug are this:

• Drivers totally switched off, not looking in their mirrors and with their radio etc up load.
• Drivers who panic when they see blue lights in their mirrors and then freeze - very, very common.

The_Conductor

andrewh5 wrote: »

I agree. The biggest problems thoug are this:

• Drivers totally switched off, not looking in their mirrors and with their radio etc up load.
• Drivers who panic when they see blue lights in their mirrors and then freeze - very, very common.

Totally aside from fining them- the two categories above are a danger to themselves and other road users. Surely if caught not paying due care or dilligence, or indeed- if you went into a blind panic- there should be some manner of getting them off the road altogether (longterm that is)?

andrewh5

smccarrick wrote: »

Totally aside from fining them- the two categories above are a danger to themselves and other road users. Surely if caught not paying due care or dilligence, or indeed- if you went into a blind panic- there should be some manner of getting them off the road altogether (longterm that is)?

I agree completely. IMHO about 40 - 50% of the drivers on the road damn well shouldn't be. The bloody stupid licence amnesty and the unaccompanied drivers crap have a lot to answer for.

msg11

Its touch on touch from me really, a member of the public and a road user. I have seen some, good driving(most of the time) & some of the bad stuff, more from videos on the net, one patrol car driving on a footpath after another car & one patrol car not letting road users know that he is there at a junction, he was red I was green threw the junction I seen the blues, and just about managed to slow down.

On the subject, If you are on chiefs and reading this, and an doing some advanced driving at the moment, and was told, that driving fast is about knowing when too slow down.

Personally, for me blue lights on or off, I would not thrust a sole in a car, humans are not designed for speed/moving fast, courses help, but the brain has trouble processing the information from your eyes and your vision threw your eyes driving is that off a 50 cent coin.

Turner

Copied from another post, about garda driving.

Just to clear a few things up about the standard of driver training in the gardai. The gardai are trained in many styles of driving listed below.

Standard car and motorcycle course
Advanced car and motorcycle course

Both of which are up to the standard of the UK police drivers and is considered to be the best principles of roadcraft and standard of police driver training in the world.

The gardai also comlete
Jeep, personnell carrier (paddywagon) and HGV courses.
Tactical car course (eru and rsu)
Escort car and motorcycle course

However alot are actually driving on Chief Superintendents permission they are not allowed engage in putsuits. Chief Supt's permission only relates to lower powered patrol cars, no motorcycles/vans/jeeps.

The gardai are not trained in putsuits (eg boxing in cars or ramming cars), although it is not recommended individual gardai can make the decision to do this but be it on their own head. If anything goes wrong they are liable to prosecution. Management will not back you but it may be required to save a life.

ScubaDave

I was always of the opinion that there is nothing on paper that stops drivers on chiefs taking part in pursuits. It happens regularly!

Eru

ScubaDave wrote: »

I was always of the opinion that there is nothing on paper that stops drivers on chiefs taking part in pursuits. It happens regularly!

The code does not divide chiefs and official drivers in terms of what you can or cannot do. The difference is that if your in a crash on Chiefs your completely on your own, if your an official the state has to accept some liability (but your still open to prosecution)


As for courses, guys over 3 years since I applied for the course and Im only now top of the list on my unit. You guys get courses far faster than we do. Hell, I know lads that had the car course done during phase 4

Capri

Drivers totally switched off, not looking in their mirrors and with their radio etc up load.
Drivers who panic when they see blue lights in their mirrors and then freeze - very, very common.

1) Some drivers do panic and stop dead, but if the PolDri has been anticipating the road ahead, he should not be assuming that everyone KNOWS the route he wants to take. When I'm driving I use a combination of seeing the gaps ahead AND 'assertive' driving - putting my car in such a way that other drivers will yield to me because they feel I'm going through anyway.
'Driver profiling' also helps - anyone with an L plate, females and immigrants, are more likely to move over that Mr 'Car salesman' or 'Drugged up Jason' in his 90 Corolla with hub caps !

2) I was following an Ambulance bringing my mother to the hospital one time, 'Yummie Mummy' talking on her mobile in her 4WD TOTALLY failed to see the Ambulance behind her on the N11, I flew up the hard shoulder and got beside her, she VERY SOON woke up !! BUT, the AmbDri should have been more forceful with the 'foghorn' function on the siren also !!

metman

Some drivers do panic and stop dead, but if the PolDri has been anticipating the road ahead he should not be assuming that everyone KNOWS the route he wants to take.

I like most people who drive emergency vehicles assume exactly the opposite, that no one knows what route we want to take. Hence why we have emergency warning equipment fitted to our vehicles, to assist in getting the message across. However no amount of driver training can ultimately negate the stupidity/ignorance/arrogance of some motorists when confronted with an emergency vehicle.

When I'm driving I use a combination of seeing the gaps ahead AND 'assertive' driving - putting my car in such a way that other drivers will yield to me because they feel I'm going through anyway.

We drive to the system of car control that promotes safe progressive driving. I don't use any hard and fast rules as every drive is different.

'Driver profiling' also helps - anyone with an L plate, females and immigrants, are more likely to move over that Mr 'Car salesman' or 'Drugged up Jason' in his 90 Corolla with hub caps!

I refer you to my last reply.

PolDri......AmDri

Say what? :rolleyes:

meathmannn

Karlitos is correct regarding driving on Chiefs.
There's nothing you can't do according to the code or drivers handbook. Except your licence/job etc are at risk if there's a collision)
It's lethal for the driver when things go wrong..... a very bad place to be, as many of us know.

Some Chiefs do restrict engine sizes, but it has been known to get chiefs on vans.

Many of the cars are in a bad way (I know one station where the only patrol car has one broken blue light, and they want it sent to Dublin for repair for 4 days...with no replacement available!).

It's scary whats expected of untrained members. I wonder would a minister mind having an untrained driver??

djtechnics1210

Chief--- wrote: »

Copied from another post, about garda driving.

Just to clear a few things up about the standard of driver training in the gardai. The gardai are trained in many styles of driving listed below.

Standard car and motorcycle course
Advanced car and motorcycle course

Both of which are up to the standard of the UK police drivers and is considered to be the best principles of roadcraft and standard of police driver training in the world.

The gardai also comlete
Jeep, personnell carrier (paddywagon) and HGV courses.
Tactical car course (eru and rsu)
Escort car and motorcycle course

However alot are actually driving on Chief Superintendents permission they are not allowed engage in putsuits. Chief Supt's permission only relates to lower powered patrol cars, no motorcycles/vans/jeeps.

The gardai are not trained in putsuits (eg boxing in cars or ramming cars), although it is not recommended individual gardai can make the decision to do this but be it on their own head. If anything goes wrong they are liable to prosecution. Management will not back you but it may be required to save a life.

Once upon a time i had chiefs on a van, i also had chiefs to drive upto 2.2l and i know people that are still doing this and have chiefs on 2.4l.
Chief can give you chiefs on whatever he wants but he will be the one standing over it if you have crash.... this is why most chiefs only give out max 2.0l chiefs on cars and nothing else. Lots of other units have tac car course done besides eru and rsu

djtechnics1210

Indeed

brayblue24

city4life wrote: »

i assume you had a d1 licenmce then? which reminds me to get d1 put on my own licence!!!

It took me 14 years to get around to doing that myself. Nice bonus though. Pity I failed the m/cycle course...twice! or I could have ticked another box on the licence.

Tango Alpha 51

Capri wrote: »

2) I was following an Ambulance bringing my mother to the hospital one time, 'Yummie Mummy' talking on her mobile in her 4WD TOTALLY failed to see the Ambulance behind her on the N11, I flew up the hard shoulder and got beside her, she VERY SOON woke up !! BUT, the AmbDri should have been more forceful with the 'foghorn' function on the siren also !!

Capri,
I take it by your last comment, the ambulance was on lights & sirens. If this is indeed the case, why were you following the ambulance so closely (I'm allowing for the fact you had a relative on board). This would be highly dangerous. As for you "flying up " the hard shoulder another equally reckless & dangerous move. If you were in a marked vehicle it might be different. As for your comment that the paramedic driving the ambulance should have been more forceful with the fog horn function on the siren is a silly comment to make. I have been behind vehicles & have changed the siren tone (we have 3) constantly as well as blowing the vehicles horn & have had no effect.

Some drivers of other vehicles through whatever reason seem to be oblivious to any ES vehicle behind them no matter how many lights we have on, what colour their painted & despite what noise we make.

Paulzx

Capri wrote: »

1)

2) I was following an Ambulance bringing my mother to the hospital one time, 'Yummie Mummy' talking on her mobile in her 4WD TOTALLY failed to see the Ambulance behind her on the N11, I flew up the hard shoulder and got beside her, she VERY SOON woke up !! BUT, the AmbDri should have been more forceful with the 'foghorn' function on the siren also !!

If you were following an ambulance which was on lights and sirens you are a bigger idiot than the "yummy mummy" you are deriding in your post. It is a crazy thing to do and is very distracting to the driver of the ambulance who will see you doing it in his mirrors.

I have had to pull the ambulance over before and warn the relative following me through red lights in his own car that i would call the Guards if he didn't slow down and drive correctly.

I don''t care how upset someone is that a relative is being brought to hospital. There is no excuse for attempting to follow an ambo through red lights.

Eru

Theres lads in my place with chiefs on vans but its a rarity and they have full licenses (all boxes ticked).

I was however unde the impression that chiefs was only upto 2 litre. I did Anvil a few times as a driver and even though nothing was in my permission they wouldnt let me take the Camera because it was 2.2.

Capri

If you were following an ambulance which was on lights and sirens you are a bigger idiot than the "yummy mummy" you are deriding in your post. It is a crazy thing to do and is very distracting to the driver of the ambulance who will see you doing it in his mirrors.

I have had to pull the ambulance over before and warn the relative following me through red lights in his own car that i would call the Guards if he didn't slow down and drive correctly.

Let's see what you do when it's a relative of yours ( all HSE personell are very hands-off when dealing with the public, but when it's one of 'their own .....! )!! - and FYI, there's quite a 'wake' if you follow too closely behind an Amb, so a very safe distance has to be maintained !

TheNog

Capri wrote: »

Let's see what you do when it's a relative of yours ( all HSE personell are very hands-off when dealing with the public, but when it's one of 'their own .....! )!! - and FYI, there's quite a 'wake' if you follow too closely behind an Amb, so a very safe distance has to be maintained !

I realise that you could have been caught up in the situation but it still is not a good idea to follow the path of any emergency vehicle when they blue lighting it. You have to remember that the said vehicle will have lights and sirens while your car doesn't and members of the public will be watching out for that emergency vehicle but will not be expecting yours.

There is no need for anyone to be getting to a hospital asap when the patient is already receiving medical attention cos you cannot do anything to help but may make the situation worse.

djtechnics1210

Even with 2 es vehicles following each other... no one ever expects the second one.. as all es personnel know.. an people always pull out in front of it as first one goes by

seanybiker

most of the cops i see around seem to be grand. Bar one lad on a bike around town here. Only thing i dont like about cop driving training is that when they do the bike course(2 weeks i think,cant remember) they automatically get a full license without having the standard two year restriction. Bikes are dangerous at the best of times but to send a fella out on a full powered bike after a few weeks experience. Ah well. Tough titty i suppose