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[Nov 30] DURC indoor open
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25-11-2008 5:33pm#1
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Well, it's a rifle competition to start with
Prone smallbore rifle, 60 shots, 75 minutes a detail and unlimited sighters. Cannot return to sighters after starting the match. In Rathdrum there are seven firing points.
Indoor is shot at 25 yards on an NSRA standard target. The 10 ring is 12.92mm and is outward gauging meaning that if the shot crosses a line, the lower value is scored.
Highest possible combined score is 709.0 (600 + 109). The final is scored in decimals where the 10 and lower rings are divided into equal parts and scored acordingly. 10.9 is a shot within +/- 0.1mm of the exact centre.
In the final you have 45 seconds to fire each of 10 shots and after each shot is fired, the range officer calls each competitor's score for that round of shots. It is usual for the audience to applaud 10's, and stay silent for 9's or less
No pressure at all 0 -
Well, it's a rifle competition to start with
Coulda been slingshots as far as I knew!
Thanks a million for the reply.
Unless you've a specialised target rifle there's no point taking your sporter out of it's slip I'm guessing, realistically? I'm looking at the equipment list in the NTSA site.
You need electronic scoring 'cause of the '1 hole' I'm guessing too! Is that equipment expensive and is it used in other disciplines?
For ranges that don't quite have 25M, are there scaled down targets available?
Seriously, how do you stop your eye from watering, especially in an outdoor event, I have a problem with that with repeated, focused shots?
There's an Anschutz laser training rifle for Biathlon, anyone any feedback on that or does it only really become a training tool when you're trying to shoot while panting like a hungry dog?
So many questions.........:)0 -
I wouldn't say *no* point G17 - I've seen a DURC member use an Anschutz 17xx series sporter (with telescopic sights but without sling or glove or jacket) put five through the same hole in the middle of the target (and in less than two minutes as well).
And DURC doesn't have electronic scoring and Rathdrum didn't for years either - you just use a target card with ten targets and shoot one into each:
(the card is normally horizontal rather than vertical like it is there)
It's 25yd, not 25m, and the targets are already scaled down from the 100yd versions - and yes, there are versions of the cards available for 15yd and 10yd for really small ranges, but by the time you're that close in, it's nearly impossible to tell how well you're shooting.
You don't stop your eyes from watering, you blink.
I've used the laser training rifle for fun (we have one in WTSC), it's pretty nifty for introducing really young kids to what rifle shooting is like and you can do some serious position training with it - but it's not too much use once you get past about 12 years of age.0 -
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Unless your sporter has aperture sights (No scopes allowed) and somewhere to attach a single point sling. Otherwise no problem, but the lighter barrel might let you down.Unless you've a specialised target rifle there's no point taking your sporter out of it's slip I'm guessing, realistically? I'm looking at the equipment list in the NTSA site.
Not necessarily. The electronics make it easier for scoring, especially in finals but you can get gauges for scoring paper targets. Electronics targets are expensive, but in the long run can work out quite cost effective to run. The eight targets in Rathdrum cost €25,000. As of now, they each have recorded somewhere in the region of 15,000 shots at a cost of approximately €800 in running costs (about 0.6 cent a shot).You need electronic scoring 'cause of the '1 hole' I'm guessing too! Is that equipment expensive and is it used in other disciplines?
The paper targets used to cost about 1.5 cent a shot.
Yes, the NSRA produce targets for 20 yards and 15 yards as well. Being British, they don't do metersFor ranges that don't quite have 25M, are there scaled down targets available?
Drink plenty of water, take frequent rests, train very hardSeriously, how do you stop your eye from watering, especially in an outdoor event, I have a problem with that with repeated, focused shots?
It's still useful as an indoor training aid, but relatively expensive. Scatt and Noptel produce a laser system for attaching to your own rifle and a laptop which you can use for dry firing in the comfort of your own home/range/wherever which analyses your movement pre and post shot.There's an Anschutz laser training rifle for Biathlon, anyone any feedback on that or does it only really become a training tool when you're trying to shoot while panting like a hungry dog?
So many answersSo many questions.........:) 0 -
And DURC doesn't have electronic scoring and Rathdrum didn't for years either - you just use a target card with ten targets and shoot one into each:
(the card is normally horizontal rather than vertical like it is there)
Aha!You don't stop your eyes from watering, you blink.
Aha!but it's not too much use once you get past about 12 years of age.
Mentally and/or physically?:D
Thanks for the info.
I feel an impromptu club competition coming on. Old fashioned scoring is good!
:eek:The eight targets in Rathdrum cost €25,000.0 -
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Highest possible combined score is 709.0 (600 + 109). The final is scored in decimals where the 10 and lower rings are divided into equal parts and scored acordingly. 10.9 is a shot within +/- 0.1mm of the exact centre.
Now I understand all the freaky looking scores I've been reading over the last year or so.
em, that's small, are you sure that's not a typo??!!!:DThe 10 ring is 12.92mm
Armed with all the kindly given info and after thinking about it and doing a detail in my head, 691.7 is a fairly good score, my eye is watering at the thought of it (now what was Spark's tip there again....). 0 -
em, that's small, are you sure that's not a typo??!!!:D
Nope, and bear in mind that that's outward gauged. So to get a ton, you've to land ten shots entirely inside a circle that size, so that the whole group will measure less than 12.92mm edge to edge. At 50m, the ten ring is 10.4mm, but it's inward gauged, so you could have a group up to 20mm edge to edge and it could still hold the ten. Still, it isn't easy.
Armed with all the kindly given info and after thinking about it and doing a detail in my head, 691.7 is a fairly good score, my eye is watering at the thought of it (now what was Spark's tip there again....).
Yeah, it was bloody good to watch. As regards final scores, they're very good to watch. One of Conor's tons yesterday, had it been in the final, would have given him 104.8, so there are some very good scores being put in. Any selection match this year could look very good indeed.0 -
em, that's small, are you sure that's not a typo??!!!:D
Not a typo. You have to get your .22 round entirely inside that ring to score a 10.
It's both easier and harder than it sounds. It's easier than it sounds to shoot a 10, but it's much harder than it sounds to shoot lots of 10s in succession.Armed with all the kindly given info and after thinking about it and doing a detail in my head, 691.7 is a fairly good score, my eye is watering at the thought of it (now what was Spark's tip there again....).
Start off with a 10-bull card like Sparks showed in his previous post. The dimensions can be found in the NSRA rules and regulations which you can get here: http://www.nsra.co.uk/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=72&Itemid=
A 10 bull card like that should take you roughly 5-10 minutes to shoot depending on how comfortable you are. With kit designed for the job (basic stuff, nothing too high end) you can get to the point of shooting 85+ pretty quickly if you get a bit of basic training. If you stick at it, scores in the 90s (540+) are quite achievable quickly.0 -
691.7 is an extremely good score. The 590 in qualifying means that Gary had fifty 10's and ten 9's in his 60 shots and Conor had two more 9's (no eights I hope Conor).
Gary's 590 is not the best he has done btw. I remember some years ago him equalling the British 50m prone record of 597 in Bisley. (Gary might want to correct that if I'm wrong). There was also the little matter of a 594/101.5 that got him seventh in the Munich World Cup in 1996.
The mental effort to keep putting in tens is significant. Add to that the pressure of the final and hearing your competitors' scores called out, knowing that you must try and get all your shots as close to the centre as posible in order to keep your place.
Yesterday was unusual in that no places changed hands in the final. Normally that happens quite a lot.
Finals are very good for getting people used to the competitive pressure, thats why we now have them at every match. The first time is unbelievable, your heart is trying to jump out of your chest and it's very hard to concentrate.
You get used to it after a while 0 -
The more I think of it:
Anyone checked if he's actually a robot (throw a fridge magnet at him next time, see if it sticks691.7 is an extremely good score.)?The mental effort to keep putting in tens is significant.
The discipline must be physically tough too? Lying down for such a long detail must be hugely draining on your muscles trying to keep correct form shot after shot after shot.... I can squeeze off a decent shot me self but I know the effort at 100 yards trying to hold a 2 inch group when zeroing a hunting rifle.....but 60 rounds, just thinking about breathing control for that long makes me feel faint :eek:
I'll visit an open shoot hopefully in the near future and ask all me (probably dumb) questions then.0 -
691.7 is an extremely good score. The 590 in qualifying means that Gary had fifty 10's and ten 9's in his 60 shots and Conor had two more 9's (no eights I hope Conor).
Nope, first match in a long while that I haven't got an 8. Lowest shot of the day was number 53, a 9.2.The first time is unbelievable, your heart is trying to jump out of your chest and it's very hard to concentrate.
What do you mean the first time?! I must get hold of a heart rate monitor to show ye what mine does in a final.
The worst moment is when you load and start zeroing your position and realise you've moved something and you're now pointing 6 inches off! Suddenly the clock ticking down seems to go very fast, your heart rate goes through the roof and the fear sets in. Keeps it interesting I suppose.The discipline must be physically tough too? Lying down for such a long detail must be hugely draining on your muscles trying to keep correct form shot after shot after shot...
It's not that hard on the muscles if you get your position correct since there should be no muscles doing any real work. I'm a bit stiff today since my position is a bit broken but any tiredness is due to the early start yesterday morning.I'll visit an open shoot hopefully in the near future and ask all me (probably dumb) questions then.
I think the next open 25yd shoot will be Rathdrum's February Open which is on the 8th of February. The next competition will be on this Sunday but it's only open to those who have shot in Rathdrum this year since the competition is a handicap shoot based on your previous scores. I'm sure they'd have no problem with a visitor coming to watch though.0 -
I always find getting an eight devastating. It's very hard to pick yourself up after that unless there's a very clear reason for getting it.Nope, first match in a long while that I haven't got an 8. Lowest shot of the day was number 53, a 9.2.
Well maybe the first few timesWhat do you mean the first time?! I must get hold of a heart rate monitor to show ye what mine does in a final. , I find now that I'm concentrating on hitting the centre so much that I just forget about anything else. If you're listening to the scores of the guys beside you and especially if you think you're ahead, then you really will find the heart thumping alright.
I usually can't see the clock, so I have to rely on my inner timer. Generally I've the shot gone at about 20 to 25 seconds.The worst moment is when you load and start zeroing your position and realise you've moved something and you're now pointing 6 inches off! Suddenly the clock ticking down seems to go very fast, your heart rate goes through the roof and the fear sets in. Keeps it interesting I suppose.
Speak for yourself. I was on FP1 and the light's not so good there. I had to rest a lot between shots and open my backsight aperture an extra 0.4 in order to get a clear sight picture and really ran into time problems. I ended up shooting the last thirty without breaking or resting, the last 10 are testament to thisIt's not that hard on the muscles if you get your position correct since there should be no muscles doing any real work. I'm a bit stiff today since my position is a bit broken but any tiredness is due to the early start yesterday morning.. At that stage, my left hand was completely numb to the elbow :eek:, I couldn't get the sling off the rifle when I finished.
And my elbow's still sore because I stayed in position throughout the final without dropping the rifle out of my shoulder.
No problem at all, but it's only a 40 shot match this time.I think the next open 25yd shoot will be Rathdrum's February Open which is on the 8th of February. The next competition will be on this Sunday but it's only open to those who have shot in Rathdrum this year since the competition is a handicap shoot based on your previous scores. I'm sure they'd have no problem with a visitor coming to watch though.0 -
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Speak for yourself. I was on FP1 and the light's not so good there. I had to rest a lot between shots and open my backsight aperture an extra 0.4 in order to get a clear sight picture and really ran into time problems. I ended up shooting the last thirty without breaking or resting, the last 10 are testament to this. At that stage, my left hand was completely numb to the elbow :eek:, I couldn't get the sling off the rifle when I finished.
Maybe the 30-odd sighters you took had something to do with that? Who do you think you are?! Me?! 0 -
Maybe the 30-odd sighters you took had something to do with that? Who do you think you are?! Me?!
I generally always take a lot of sighters. It can sometimes take a bit of time for me to settle my position and I don't start my match until I've got a string of tens. It was worse yesterday because I had to keep adjusting my backsight aperture to get the sight picture and then centring the foresight became a bit of a struggle.
When I got to the final, and was on FP5 it was like the sun came out
We'll have to paint the back wall on each side of the targets and add more lights, it's especially bad on 1 because you get a dark patch on the left of your sights which can cause you to drift to the left without noticing.
Especially when there's about six miles of space around your foresight 0 -
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LOL!!, thank goodness for that!!, I found it difficult to get a good sight picture on FP1 and thought it was down to tiredness!;)
No it's just old age Floydster!
We did light tests a while ago and found that the light dropped off significantly at each end of the firing point, but FP1 was the worst. We need to get the lights closer to the target line without exposing them below the baffles and if we do that we'll need to add one more at each side.
They're metal halide lamps which are very good, but they're also very expensive.
Also when you're at either end, you have a target on one side of your sight picture, but not on the other so the white balance is screwed up and you tend to drift either way.Looking forward to next years comps!!, and I may be in touch to hire out a lane for a training season/weekend!!
No problem, hopefully this cold snap will end soon and it won't be as cold!0 -
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FP1 always was a pain though rrpc. There's only so much you can do when there's a wall to one side breaking up the symmetry of the sight picture
You're thinking of the old FP1 Sparks, remember we lost that when the Ballistics section authorised us.
FP1 is the old FP2 if you follow my drift. 0 -
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Ah, with you now.
I'm just going to have to reclaim my .22 sights and do a bit of prone plinking next year, that's all there is to it...
There's a thought! Bring it on
Note for Conor. You know that nice ammo in the blue box you got on Sunday? well it turns out you got yourself a bargain!
Cost to us: €17/100
I forgot to pay my entry fee, so I'm now diverting it to the ammo fund
No wonder you liked it!0 -
Note for Conor. You know that nice ammo in the blue box you got on Sunday? well it turns out you got yourself a bargain!
Cost to us: €17/100
I forgot to pay my entry fee, so I'm now diverting it to the ammo fund
No wonder you liked it!
Thanks, I'll sort out any ammo fund discrepancies on Sunday.
Is there any more of it?
On price it beats €23/100 for Eley Match and it shoots just as well in the Walther.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »23 for two boxes of Match?
Yep, it ain't cheap.Deleted User wrote:I'm paying £5 a box over here, and thats the 'expensive' rate!
Must bring some back with me!
1060fps or less please. 0 -
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I'm just going to have to reclaim my .22 sights and do a bit of prone plinking next year, that's all there is to it...There's a thought! Bring it on
Back I go...
Not awful for the first night back, even if that first shot was downright bad...0 -
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That wasn't an 89, it was a 90
And I departed from the plan, which was to shoot one point higher on each successive card, just so I'd have the coolest looking sparkline in the ladders
The hell it was! I scored it and 89 was a generous estimate! Now, four more cards and you'll have a reflective average. 0 -
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